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Bilbo

Artocarpus altilis

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Bilbo

I had something of a shock the other day to discover the Breadfruit Tree can be grown in Europe in warm Med type conditions.

I had made the assumption that this was solely for the tropics. I should know better by now and not assume.

It surely must be possible in S.Florida and Southern California then?

What a tremendous looking tree with those really tropical looking glossy leaves and the bonus of edible fruit and its monoecious.

Superb.

I expect our members in places like Hawaia and India have this.

Regardez

Juan

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Alan_Tampa

not in south cal from what I gather from some south calians, south Florida a few here and there, a big-un somewhere on Key West.  

I grow breadfruit here in containers (more or less, long story for a later date) and have also tried to see if it could succeed as an "annual". (again -longer story yada yada) Eric at Leu Gardens has been trying the same (annual - coming back itself after winter) do not know how he has done, but I have had "limited success" with "nearly in ground" trials.  

Pot culture of breadfruit (or breadnut) Artocarpus altilis, A. camansi is not too hard, trick is moving up in pot size baby stepwise as opposed to from 1 gallon to 30 gallon - seemed a bit more prone to fungus attack when lots of empty soil was present.

I had breadfruit take 40F (4C) for one night without damage, two nights with leaf drop and margin browning- lower than that leaf drop but little stem damage, less than 32F (0C) stem death to about soil level.  May recover no troubles -AS LONG AS FUNGUS AND BACTERIA DO NOT LAY SEIGE.

Alan

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Eric in Orlando

Where in the Mediterranean does Breadfruit grow? In Florida it is almost impossible even in Miami to grow a breadfruit to fruiting age, it usually dies back every year or 2. Only in the Keys does one find larger specimens, there are full grown fruiting trees in Key West.

I planted one out here this summer to test if it will return from the roots up here. I want it just for the foliage. It is planted in an extremely protected location, near where a Jakfruit is growing well. It took several nights in the low 40s early with most of the leaves getting a bronze tint. Earlier this week we had 2 nights down to 38F and now all the foliage is bronze but the stem and terminal bud is still green.

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Bilbo

Thanks for the info guys that was very interesting and to answer Eric Breadfruit is reported to be in the middle of an Italian Lake!

Lake Maggiore in fact which has two small islands: Isolo Madre and Isolo Bella.

The latter is reputed to have breadfruit and coffee!!!

The former has some good palms.

I have given this credence as everything else in the report was accurate.

Maybe Carlo will know?

I live in hopes that it might tolerate Z9 but I think Z10 may be more likely.

Regardez

Juan

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Carlo Morici

Dear Jon,

Breadfruit/Breadnut (= A.altilis/A.camansi) needs a solid zone 11 in the lowlands to develop properly and fruit. It cannot survive in the true Mediterranean. Not even in Sicily or Costa del Sol. I heard Sicilians are trying jackfruit (A.heterophyllus) with some results.

Even in the hottest tropics, breadfruit trees struggle if planted at some elevation, because they really like hot nights.

We can grow breadfruits in the Canary Islands (zone 11), but it suffers in winter. To show how marginal it is: on the Northern coast of Tenerife, there is an old tall A.altilis (>60 years) that blooms regularly but it has never fruited in so many years. On the other hand, on the So.coast of the same island one A.camansi took just 4 years to fruit. Now the agriculture research center here is trying 2 different varieties of A.altilis that I brought from Lyon Arboretum in Honolulu. Maybe some will be slightly hardier?!?!

I will show some pictures from Tenerife:

A.camansi unprotected, in mid-summer, at the Palmetum of Santa Cruz:

CopiadeDSCN2472d_redimensionar.jpg

A.camansi, unprotected, in mid-winter, at some elevation. (It will get worse and then it will recover, be sure!)

DSCN4672_redimensionar.jpg

Carlo, Tenerife

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bahia

Unless with global warming the situation at Lake Maggiore and Isola Bella as greatly changed, it is highly suspect that the conditions there would support Breadfruit and Coffee plants year round.  This area is nice and balmy for northern Italy, but is in no way close to a USDA zone 11 climate.  Beautiful Chamaerops humilis and Trachycarpus fortunei palms in abundance, and of great size, but I didn't see any more tender Archontophoenix cunninghamiana or Phoenix roebellenii palms as year round plants in the gardens there.   The local landscape reminded me very much of Marin County, and visually looked  much like parts of Belevedere and Sausalito, California.   Then again, it was  30 years ago that I last visited Isola Bella.  Can anyone confirm that conditions at Lake Maggiore are more reliably zone 9b/10a there now?

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Carlo Morici

Yes, it is possibly an oasis of 9b-10a in the cold North. But it is not comparable to a true 9b-10a in Sicily or Southern Spain. And it is light years away from a 9b-10a in Florida.

Carlo

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Carlo Morici

Where is the "tropical crew"? Gileno in Cocosland? Kris? The Hawaiians? Trinidad and Amazonia? Leo in MX?

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leomx

Hola Juan, I was talking to a friend in Málaga (southern Spain and to whom I sent some Artocarpus camansi last year and also post in IPS) is telling me those breadnut seedlings are about to die because of bad weather (cold plus his greenhouse was smashed by gusts of 100km/hr).

So not sure if A. camansi/altilis are capable of surviving this extreme european weather (global warming effects??).

Here at 24ºN (in Mexico) being 6ºC now the new lowest for just one night A. camansi do struggle a little bit but not that much, so it`s worth a try if you get a shady post down here.

A. camansi before 6ºC.

JARDINRavenearivularis.jpg

A. after 6ºC (this temp. was only for one night and then was 9ºC, 11ºC, 10ºC, 14ºC, 15ºC, 13ºC, etc.) I must say the max temp for this winter is 25-30ºC each day.

breadfruit1.jpg

Leaf detail.

breadfrui2.jpg

Saludos,

Leonel.

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aussiearoids

Even in lowland tropical areas some extreme cold weater coming down from the nearby mountains make the Breadfruit drop many leaves . Often for a few hours in the morning it is 6-7C . Leonel your plants in Mexico look fantastic .. I remember the extreme heat many years ago when visiting Mexico , must have been 45c in Guamas ?

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leomx

aussie, those aren`t my plants. My breadnut horrible right now because it`s potted. Those are pictures of the local botanical garden.

Guess you mean Guaymas in Sonora. That`s right, that`s in the sonoran desert. We also get to 44ºC many days in the summer, this is no desert, though.

Cheers.

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Bilbo

Veny many thanks guys for all your replies and those superb pics.

I was thinking of having a go over here but I shall now put that idea on the back burner until global warming catches up with my ambitions!

Over here I am regarded as "eccentric" - the polite Brit word for barking mad.

Anyway I planted a Queen last year ("it doesnt grow here" ) Im told but it obviously hasnt listened.

A possibility may even be a Cuban Royal under a spreading Mimosa (Acacia dealbata).

Thanks again guys.

Regardez

Juan

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Eric in Orlando

Here is the Artocarpus atilis planted this past summer here at Leu Gardens. The photo was taken today. The tree is about 4ft tall and still alive. It has dropped 4 leaves and the remaining ones are bronzy-green. This is what it has done so far after 2 nights of 43F back in November 2006, 1 night of 42F in Dec. 2006, 1 night of 42F and 2 nights down to 38F in Jan. and 2 nights of 42F so far this month. It is growing in a very protected spot and has a huge clump of 15ft tall Rhapis humilis that blocks north/NW winds.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/leu4510....0

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Carlo Morici

Mine (Post #5, 2nd picture) today had just one leaf left - the youngest - after a few nights at 10-14 C (50-57 F). But march is very close.

A cacao nearby is doing much better. It is still leafy and It just got some brown margins.

Eric,

Be careful with "very protected spots". I assume that if you want it to resprout from the base in case of cold, you need to grow a very tough plant. It would be good to "harden" the juveniles, by keeping them on the sunny side. Long internodes are good for the equator, our subtropical climates beg for shorter internodes.

Leo,

In another thread you posted a picture of anothe species of Artocarpus that you are growing. A.sericifolius if I am not wrong - can you tell me more?

Carlo, Tenerife

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nomolos

Another plant you could consider for the look of the breadfruit is Bocconia Frutescens -it's much hardier

08_Bocconia-frutescens.jpgtescens

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Eric in Orlando

Artocarpus hypargyreus is another species with some cold hardiness, about the same as Jackfruit, A. heterophyllus. It is native to S. China and has unlobed leaves. There is a specimen growing at Selby Gardens in Sarasota. I planted a small one this past summer out here.

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Zac in NC

I love Bocconia. I have seen that one in Tamaulipas and would love to collect a ton of seeds and bring them back, sow them, plant them out and trial for a hardier one. This thread is interesting. I have been to that area of Sonora, and yes, it is very warm in July! That palm Canyon in San Carlos( Nacapule) was pleasant as compared to the flats on the outer parts of the canyon. Its memories like that that warm me when my temps are in the 30s F.

Zac

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leomx

Hola Carlo,

I also don´t know much about pedalai (A. sericicarpus), but this is what "las malas lenguas"  :D  told me about it:

"The rate of growth (if temperatures are in the 65-90 range with much irrigation and/or rain) is rapid, with flowering/fruiting within five years.  The fruit is oblong & yellow and about 6" from end to end.  It features one 2" seed within.  The Pedelai fruits rather heavily once a year m(Apr-May-Jun in the Northern Hemisphere.)  The flavour is akin to a combination of these delights: pineapple/mango/sweet orange.  It is very mildly acidic, but mostly sweet!  This fruit is fairly popular in SE Asia".

"...the tree starts to bear when it's about 10-12 feet tall; that's why the 3-5 year estimate is given...allowing for about 2.5 ft. of growth (on average) per year".

Less than 12ºC would be good to protect it somehow for a couple of years and it´s not as finicky as breadfruit.

Saludos,

Leonel.

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Carlo Morici

No lo conocía - ¿y the one que mostraste in the other thread es tuyo? Why don't you post the same picture here?

Carlo in Spanglish

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leomx

JAJAJA  :laugh: , estás tentando a los dioses (jefes de aquí) con tu spanglish!!!. No recuerdo que esté prohibido escribir en español...será muy sabido.  :D

Ayer no subí la foto porque tenía mucho sueño. Sí, al menos ese pedalai sí es mío. Qué bien suena la descripción del sabor (mango, naranja dulce y piña), ojalá que sea cierto!!. Algo que no menciona la descripción de las malas lenguas es que parece que al ir creciendo el árbol deja de dar hojas muy lobuladas (??)y empieza a darlas ovobadas u ovadas. Y he visto fotos de árboles más grandes en fotos del pabellón de frutas tropicales del Fairchild Tropical Gardens y se hace muy "piernudo", con sólo sus hojas grandes ovadas en las puntas de las ramas, muy curioso. La madera es muy frágil, algo así como ramas de aguacate jóvenes. Otro árbol perfecto para El Hierro.

pedalai.jpg

Leonel.

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Peter

Eric, do you have any photos of that Artocarpus hypargyreus?  And how has yours done over the winter?

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leomx

Young A. hypargyraea and no, they weren´t wind shreded or bug eaten. Don´t know if they continue to do this when mature.

PRIMAVERAkwaimuk.jpg

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aussiearoids

The Lacoocha is supposed to grow wellin sub-tropical to warm temperate climates , it also grows up here in wet tropics , heres a few pics .

post-354-1171237563_thumb.jpg

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aussiearoids

I found the fruit delicous .

post-354-1171237627_thumb.jpg

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aussiearoids

another

post-354-1171239226_thumb.jpg

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aussiearoids

habit

post-354-1171239390_thumb.jpg

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Carlo Morici

Dear friends,

Those species are really interesting - thank you for the pictures, I would like to try them all.

Here are some pictures that I just got from el amigo Domingo.

The following pictures show an Artocarpus (probably A. camansi) grown in the SW coast of Tenerife, which is one of the best climates on the island to grow tropical plants, because it is sunny, dry and not windy. The exact location is a property in Cueva del Polvo, belonging to the government research center ICIA (Instituto Canario de Investigaciones Agrarias). This center uses these plots for the tropical fruit trees, both collection and experimental trials.

I am proud of having being involved in obtaining the seeds. Domingo Fenandez Galván (the photographer) grew them in ICIA  – We got the seeds about 6 years ago from Diane Ragone, of NTBG in Hawaii. The tree took just 3-4 years to fruit. Pictures are taken in 2006, some months after a major storm broke most of its terminal branches.

P1040468_.jpg

P1040466_.jpg

P1050364_.jpg

P1050714_.jpg

Later this year they will plant in that plot the 2 cvs. of A.altilis obtained from Lyon Arboretum in Honolulu.

Carlo

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leomx

Spectacular breadnut with all that new bushy foliage after the storm, Carlo. I´ve read they started flowering till 8 years old!!! It gives me hope to get fruit earlier.

The lacoocha seems tasty.

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paulgila

greta pics,carlo.where are those trees growing & whats the climate like?

i JUST bought a small plant(maybe 12 inches tall) yesterday & i'm wondering how it will do in socal so i have been following this thread.any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated.

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Carlo Morici

It is in the research plot for tropical fruit trees in SW Tenerife, in Cueva del Polvo by the town of Guía de Isora.

The climate is oceanic subtropical, with winter rainfall.

If I am not wrong it has (all is "approx."):

Average Annual Temp. 22 C

Annual Rainfall: 250 mm, in the colder months

Minimum yearly temp. a shot at 8-9 C

Typical winter day 14-24 C

Typical summer day 22-30 C

And it is sunny with few dense rains, basicall no drizzle, little wind and little or no dew.

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paulgila

thanks for the info,carlo.

if i lived closer to the coast i'd have a much better chance!

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Carlo Morici

My only suggestion if you are out of the tropics is to harden it as much as you can.

Breadfruits/Breadnuts love protected environments, humidity etc. but I suggest baking them in full sun until the limit they can handle, to make tougher smaller plants with shorter internodes, which then are more resistant to drought, wind and possibly cold.

Maybe a Southward exposed wall can help It's just a giant leaved fig-tree after all :) Think of fig-trees grown in England.

Also, the pictured tree is not planted in any place, it is the agriculture research center, so they use the best water, the best fertilizers, the best pesticides, etc.

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CarloSpain

Hi leomx, yours breadnuts are not died, now is coming the good weather (min. 14 and max. 25ºC), I think they will survive, I am waiting in the next day will sprout again, probably never will fruit, but is really very beatiful plant.

About jackfruits I have some about 1 meter and are very good, I know there are some fruiting here in Rancho Oriental de Algarrobo. I have not seen it but I have heard that all the years surprises people its great fruits.

Carlo, the lasr year I gave some Jackfruits to Domingo from here, do you know how they are?

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Carlo Morici

Finally back to the start of the topic. I am glad to here somebody from the Mediterranean and I wish Carlos the best with your trial with A.camansi in Andalusia.

Por favor, show us  when you can pictures of the fruiting jacas in Rancho Oriental. I have one Artocarpus heterophyllus that I started from seeds in 1996 and started fruiting in 2004.

I don't know of the jackfruits you gave to Domingo - I wish he would post here.

Carlo

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Carlo Morici

Domingo replied - Your trees are fine. He said:

"Dale saludos, un arbol lo tiene Carlos Simon, el otro lo tengo yo todavia en vivero, va bien, tengo que buscarle sitio en campo ..."

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leomx

8 years to get fruit?? that´s a lot of time for jackfruit. At least you already have a fruiting jaca, mine is about 2 years old. They might start flowering this or next year in here.

Whát?? ¿Cómo que no se murieron tus A. camansi??!!! Creí que no sobrevivirían.  :angry:  jeje.

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Carlo Morici

As for the Jackfruit, I planted the seeds by the end of 1996, received from the Botanical Gardens of Singapore. They stayed in a 22 cm pot for 4 years. I planted one in the ground Sept.2000, but I did not put automatic irrigation until 2005. It is still just 5-6 m tall because I still have not enough water to make it grow... until I re-build my water tank that was washed away by a flood  :( .

I also grow two other smaller trees from other sources.

Carlo

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Alan_Tampa

Now jakfruit is something I grow that I can post a picture of without much embarrassment:

About 6 years old, maybe 7.  Lots of flowers last couple of years, seems to be serious about fruiting now - I hope.

This picture is a little old, my camera is being lazy and acting lame so a new photo is not to be had:

DSC03300.jpg

Alan

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Carlo Morici

My A.camansii (post 5, 2nd pic) passed winter with one leaf, the one unfolded in December. It is about to start new (weak) growth. It is its second year, the year before it came out with no leaves, just the tip intact. Minimum was +10 C but winter days have been warmer and drier than usual. Even Cacao did much better, and came through with just some burning on leaf margins, not one leaf lost.

How are your plants in Malaga, CarloSpain?

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Moose

Now jakfruit is something I grow that I can post a picture of without much embarrassment:

About 6 years old, maybe 7. Lots of flowers last couple of years, seems to be serious about fruiting now - I hope.

This picture is a little old, my camera is being lazy and acting lame so a new photo is not to be had:

DSC03300.jpg

Alan

How long for a Jakfruit, A. heterophyllus fruit to mature? How can you tell when the fruit has become ripe?

How do you eat it? Raw, cooked? Looking for input. B)

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