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_Keith

Spring Planting - Who wants to start a betting pool on what dies

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_Keith

I think the Caryota will be the first to go. This is it a little over a week after our first very mild freeze, and it was protected by an upside down 5 gallon bucket over the top of it.

post-1207-0-11193000-1386551128_thumb.jp

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_Keith

January 1 and all are still alive, some barely. The wet continues it plague on us, but the cold has been moderate, just a few freezes down to the 30/31 level. Looks like we have a slightly larger challenge coming. Low will only be 29, but on saturated soils with a high of 49 the next day, and then a low of 32. Could be lethal combination for some of the more arid oriented palms. We shall see.

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willials

I can't even believe the Phoenix Robellini is still alive. Those are so sensitive to light conditions, I'm surprised your Louisiana sun hasn't torched it yet or the cold hasn't burnt the leaves. Wow.

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Ben in Norcal

What temperatures damaged the Caryota? I covered mine as well and everything but the spear (maybe) looks toast...and I don't think we got much under 30 degrees. It was, however, a likely ill-advised late season planting. Even so, I struggle to see how Urens can make it down to 22 or whatever with the damage I sustained to this seedling around 30. It's similar sized to yours. Plan on leaving it in until spring, but looking pretty bad right now.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

I can't even believe the Phoenix Robellini is still alive. Those are so sensitive to light conditions, I'm surprised your Louisiana sun hasn't torched it yet or the cold hasn't burnt the leaves. Wow.

??? p. robelini is a full sun palm here in California, they don't have any light sensitivity at all. And it's a decent 9b palm, starting to get minor cosmetic cold damage around 28 but can handle at least 25F without getting killed.

What temperatures damaged the Caryota? I covered mine as well and everything but the spear (maybe) looks toast...and I don't think we got much under 30 degrees. It was, however, a likely ill-advised late season planting. Even so, I struggle to see how Urens can make it down to 22 or whatever with the damage I sustained to this seedling around 30. It's similar sized to yours. Plan on leaving it in until spring, but looking pretty bad right now.

C. urens is hardy to 22F, but gets cosmetic damage at around 25F.

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_Keith

My P rob is under hight shade, not for sun which they handle just fine here, but for protection from frost, which they despise. Temp wise they are solid here till around 23/24 at which point they are goners.

Looks like first run of cold I mentioned above is first round. They are now predicting 27 in a second round of cold early next week. Eesh.

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Tropicdoc

Buckle up, Keith! How are the Alfies looking so far?

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Ben in Norcal

I can't have robellini in full sun in the East Bay - they are toast after one summer. Seems they can handle a couple hours of sun here before they show significant damage. Axel, I know your conditions are much different probably less than 50 miles away.

We did not get down to near 25, so I am actually wondering if the damage I am seeing on C. Urens is related to the cover I put over it. (Tomato cage covered in semi-transparent plant protection fabric.) I left it on during the day and we had some warm days (70-ish.) I wonder if the damage is actually sun/heat related vs. cold?

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

I can't have robellini in full sun in the East Bay - they are toast after one summer. Seems they can handle a couple hours of sun here before they show significant damage. Axel, I know your conditions are much different probably less than 50 miles away.

We did not get down to near 25, so I am actually wondering if the damage I am seeing on C. Urens is related to the cover I put over it. (Tomato cage covered in semi-transparent plant protection fabric.) I left it on during the day and we had some warm days (70-ish.) I wonder if the damage is actually sun/heat related vs. cold?

The greenhouse grown roebelini you buy at nurseries can't hsndle full sun but roebelini all over Riverside are fine in full sun. And Riverside is 10 times as hot as East Bay.

It's just a question of Acclimatization. My roebelini came from full Fallbrook sun 15 years ago, it didn't miss a beat.

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Ben in Norcal

It also may be a question of size. Most of mine are smaller, but even when I have tried to gradually move into sun here, they get fried. I'd love to see what some of the ones in full sun in Riverside look like. I'd need to see it to believe it - I find them very, very sun sensitive.

Anyway, sorry to hijack.

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_Keith

Low next week again revised down, this time to 24. And I may be out of town, so I guess you can pretty much right off 90% or more of my original list. And I may be worried about a couple things not on that list, like the 4 new B. alfredii. It is what it is.

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_Keith

Buckle up, Keith! How are the Alfies looking so far?

They are solid, but after next week I may have to get out the peroxide. I have also seen some interested data on Vitamin B. As I recall years ago, there was even some promising research with aspirin on plants, but didn't follow up to see how it turned out.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

It also may be a question of size. Most of mine are smaller, but even when I have tried to gradually move into sun here, they get fried. I'd love to see what some of the ones in full sun in Riverside look like. I'd need to see it to believe it - I find them very, very sun sensitive.

Anyway, sorry to hijack.

http://www.junglemusic.net/palmadvice/palmtrees-desertpalms.htm

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Phoenikakias

It also may be a question of size. Most of mine are smaller, but even when I have tried to gradually move into sun here, they get fried. I'd love to see what some of the ones in full sun in Riverside look like. I'd need to see it to believe it - I find them very, very sun sensitive.

Anyway, sorry to hijack.

Strange, mine grow in full sun and even naturally sprouted grass-like offspring (yes adults bloom and produce fertile seds, which sprout naturally) grow in full sun and survive winter and summer after winter and summer.

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_Keith

This ain't gonna be pretty. Freezing rain, brutal cold with many hours below freezing.

Sun
Jan 05 11.gif Showers 58°/29° 50 % Mon
Jan 06 28.gif Mostly Cloudy 43°/23° 10 % Tue
Jan 07 32.gif Sunny 44°/30° 0 %

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

This ain't gonna be pretty. Freezing rain, brutal cold with many hours below freezing.

Sun

Jan 05 11.gif Showers 58°/29° 50 % Mon

Jan 06 28.gif Mostly Cloudy 43°/23° 10 % Tue

Jan 07 32.gif Sunny 44°/30° 0 %

Get silver bubble wrap insulation and protect your small palms.

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_Keith

This ain't gonna be pretty. Freezing rain, brutal cold with many hours below freezing.

Sun

Jan 05 11.gif Showers 58°/29° 50 % Mon

Jan 06 28.gif Mostly Cloudy 43°/23° 10 % Tue

Jan 07 32.gif Sunny 44°/30° 0 %

Get silver bubble wrap insulation and protect your small palms.

Too many palms, too spread out, and too many years doing that in the past. I am pretty much done with Zone Pushing. Because they are seedlings, and they were given to me, and this is a harsh one, I will put a bucket over each of them. They'll make it, or they won't.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

This ain't gonna be pretty. Freezing rain, brutal cold with many hours below freezing.

Sun

Jan 05 11.gif Showers 58°/29° 50 % Mon

Jan 06 28.gif Mostly Cloudy 43°/23° 10 % Tue

Jan 07 32.gif Sunny 44°/30° 0 %

Get silver bubble wrap insulation and protect your small palms.

Too many palms, too spread out, and too many years doing that in the past. I am pretty much done with Zone Pushing. Because they are seedlings, and they were given to me, and this is a harsh one, I will put a bucket over each of them. They'll make it, or they won't.

Smart man, I get it. I don't have much patience for marginals, I toss 'em out when I get spear pull. So far, the last freeze here killed a lot of small marginal stuff, perfect to plant something else.

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Xhoniwaters1

I haven't been living on the Gulf Coast for too long but I wonder if this coming week is as bad as it gets around here. I was overseas during the winter of 09 & 10 and I couldn't find any data for the ultimate lows recorded for those years on my island. I know winter of 89' was something horrible (I think recorded low was 5 degrees on the mainland)but with the weather changing like it does, I guess I am optimistic we will never see something like that again in our life time. But then again never say never.

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_Keith

I haven't been living on the Gulf Coast for too long but I wonder if this coming week is as bad as it gets around here. I was overseas during the winter of 09 & 10 and I couldn't find any data for the ultimate lows recorded for those years on my island. I know winter of 89' was something horrible (I think recorded low was 5 degrees on the mainland)but with the weather changing like it does, I guess I am optimistic we will never see something like that again in our life time. But then again never say never.

So, here is my non-researched guess.

1989, you are not likely to see in your lifetime.

2010/11 was a 15 year record low. You will see temps in the low or right at 20 degrees every 20 years at least.

Mid 20's like what is coming, I think this is a once every 10 year event on average.

High 20s, every 3 years on average.

There you go, Keith's totally non-scientific, based on a questionable memory, weather odds.

And remember these are averages. You can get 3 crazy years in a single decade as we did in 83, 85, and 89.

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Tropicdoc

Keith what forecast are you looking at? National weather service doesn't look THAT bad.

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_Keith

Doc, it keeps getting worst. This is from weather.com, who while not perfect is never very far off, either. On that site, you appear to have a +2 degree advantage.

10-Day Forecast for Jeanerette, LA (70544)


blank.gifHigh /
Low (°F)
Precip. % blank.gif Today
Jan 04 Partly Cloudy 62°/51° 10 % Sun
Jan 05 Showers / Wind 64°/26° 70 % Mon
Jan 06 Partly Cloudy 40°/22° 10 % Tue
Jan 07 Sunny 42°/29° 0 % Wed
Jan 08 Mostly Cloudy 59°/50° 10 %
This is our local newscast
katc_eight_day.jpg?59137206.302801042014
katc_eight_day.jpg?59137206.302801042014

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Xhoniwaters1

I have a DD, Bismarck, T. latisectus and Pseudophoenix waiting to see what torches after this winter's situation B)

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Tropicdoc

Yes just saw an update maybe farmers almanac was right! All potted plants will be inside for a few days. I'm not even sure I can keep the greenhouse warm enough with a low of 20 degrees.

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Phoenikakias

It also may be a question of size. Most of mine are smaller, but even when I have tried to gradually move into sun here, they get fried. I'd love to see what some of the ones in full sun in Riverside look like. I'd need to see it to believe it - I find them very, very sun sensitive.

Anyway, sorry to hijack.

Strange, mine grow in full sun and even naturally sprouted grass-like offspring (yes adults bloom and produce fertile seds, which sprout naturally) grow in full sun and survive winter and summer after winter and summer.

At the base of my Pritchardia and the mother plant as well.

post-6141-0-01381000-1388907841_thumb.jppost-6141-0-21531100-1388907871_thumb.jp

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_Keith

Well, with the winter we had this was almost unfair. Most were fine after the first freeze with some minimal protection. Most made it through the ice storm. But I am afraid this 3rd blast might have been too much. Or maybe it was just the combination of the 3. Here is where we stand.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova') - Some spears have pulled, all look dead. Pretty bad on these.
1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus) - Looking good
3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba) - No healthy foliage left, but still look as if the might make it if we have an early warm spring
2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver') - Looking good
4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom') - Still the tiniest bit of green at the base, but I do not hold out much hope for these
1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens) - Miracle if this thing is not dead

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti) - No healthy foliage left, but I still think they will make it.

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens) - No healthy foliage left, still might recover, but a long shot at this point

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii) - No healthy foliage left, but if the trunks are still healthy it will likely return

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it) - OK, they aren't Bizzies for sure, probably Sabals. They are unaffected

4 B. alfredii - Until the final freeze they were looking sound. They are in tough shape after the last freeze. 50-50 on their return to health.

And so there you go, hopefully on the tail end of our worst winter since 1989, this is where it stands.

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Mauna Kea Cloudforest

Keith, which palms of yours were the least affected by all this cold?

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_Keith

Butia, mules, and trachies actually seem healthier. Sabals, C radicalis and C microspadix are no worse for the wear. That is off the top of my head. I am out cleaning up today, finally got a day of sunshine before the next cold front arrives tomorrow night. I was taking a quick break and will update this later on.

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_Keith

Spent the day pulling spears. I will be off in the morning for a case of hydrogen peroxide, not kidding on this one. Latest cold snap was not quite as bad as previous, but with a low of 28 and light sleet, it was bad enough. I chose not to protect, I am done with that, again. Life is too damned short. My thinking is that if something can't take that, it will never make it in the garden anyway, why waste the energy. So here is the latest.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova') - All spears pulled, foliage total loss, all look dead. Any survivors will be surprises.
1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus) - Looking good
3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba) - Total foliage loss, spears still tight.
2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver') - Looking good
4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom') - All spears pulled, foliage total loss, all look dead. Any survivors will be surprises.
1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens) - Spear pulled, foliage total loss, looks dead. Any survivors will be surprises

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti) - No healthy foliage left, I still think they will make it.

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens) - Total foliage loss, spear still tight, but survival will be a surprise.

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii) - No healthy foliage left, spears still tight, but survial will be a surprise

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it) - OK, they aren't Bizzies for sure, probably Sabals. They are unaffected

4 B. alfredii - Foliage 30 to 75 perent loss, spears still tight and light green. I am betting they will make it just fine.

Last item of note, the Australian Tree Fern. If that poor sucker is still alive, I will be amazed. However, I still recommend it in Zone 9a. I made a good 10 year run with my last one before the freeze of 2010 took it out. It was magnificent and a conversation piece of the garden. I will replace it and each time hope for a few good years before it succumbs again.

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Alicehunter2000

Hate to hear about the losses Keith, I totally understand if you don't replace those species. I am surprised by the phoenix dacts. They should have survived. Queens are just not reliable for our zone... better to plant hybrids. I think the big winners will be Bizzy, alba's and hopefully Dd's ....rather have them than some of the other stuff anyway. Spring will tell us more.

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Zeeth

Take a pic of the Bismarckia so we can see if it's a Sabal or not!

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_Keith

OK, ready to declare the first fatalaties. The 5 juveline 'Supernova' Queen palms are history.

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_Keith

Now pronouncing the 3 C. alba juveniles dead.

One of the 4 P. dact 'Maktoom' is definitely alive. Other 3 likely dead.

T. latisectus lost all foliage, but has already pushed a nice new green frond.

Both P. theophrasti are fine pushing new fronds.

B. alfredii all very unhappy, but very much alive.

Carytoa is toes up.

D. decipiens spear pulled, but some green still at the base. Prolly dead.

S. repens both fine.

P. reclinata looks alive, but no new frond pushes yet.

Those supposed Green Bizzies, which are almost definitely Sabals looks like they actually enjoyed winter.

And non palm related surprise, Aussie Tree Fern survived, pushing two new whatever they are called.

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Tropicdoc

Your experience with T. lasisectus forbodes well for me T. martianus I just put in the ground. Of course, it will get covered by an unheated greenhouse until it is too big, and hopefully by then the live oak will be over it. I would like a tree fern.. even more now. I guess the alfredii data is a little misleading since you had them under oak leaves for the freezes, right? I only lost my jubaeopsis, even though it was wrapped.

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Tropicdoc

Of note, my "tropical" bed that I had kept under heated greenhouse all winter was exposed for that nasty mardi gras weather due to the loss of the greenhouse to wind. We had rain and 33 F.(just dodged the sleet) The Myola kings only have a few brown spots and likewise for the heliconia. No damage on the Monstera. Of note, I have "dwarf" Alpinia purpurata that look bad in there... not sure why because the heliconia and everything else is flourishing. Maybe its just a weak cultivar.... got it from aloha tropicals... just FYI to everyone.

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Phoenikakias

Now pronouncing the 3 C. alba juveniles dead.

One of the 4 P. dact 'Maktoom' is definitely alive. Other 3 likely dead.

T. latisectus lost all foliage, but has already pushed a nice new green frond.

Both P. theophrasti are fine pushing new fronds.

B. alfredii all very unhappy, but very much alive.

Carytoa is toes up.

D. decipiens spear pulled, but some green still at the base. Prolly dead.

S. repens both fine.

P. reclinata looks alive, but no new frond pushes yet.

Those supposed Green Bizzies, which are almost definitely Sabals looks like they actually enjoyed winter.

And non palm related surprise, Aussie Tree Fern survived, pushing two new whatever they are called.

What about the pigmy date palms, should we wait still for a suprise?

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_Keith

Now pronouncing the 3 C. alba juveniles dead.

One of the 4 P. dact 'Maktoom' is definitely alive. Other 3 likely dead.

T. latisectus lost all foliage, but has already pushed a nice new green frond.

Both P. theophrasti are fine pushing new fronds.

B. alfredii all very unhappy, but very much alive.

Carytoa is toes up.

D. decipiens spear pulled, but some green still at the base. Prolly dead.

S. repens both fine.

P. reclinata looks alive, but no new frond pushes yet.

Those supposed Green Bizzies, which are almost definitely Sabals looks like they actually enjoyed winter.

And non palm related surprise, Aussie Tree Fern survived, pushing two new whatever they are called.

What about the pigmy date palms, should we wait still for a suprise?

Actually where I said P. reclinata above, I was referring to the Pigmy Date. All of the foliage is toasted, but it seems very much alive and green at the base of the fronds on all 3 trunks, no spear pulls, all is tight. No sign of it pushing any new fronds yet, however it is still pretty cool around, just starting to get some days up into the 70s. It has plenty of time to perk up and make a full recovery.

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_Keith

Dypsis decipiens is greening up. I think that puppy is still with us.

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Alicehunter2000

Dypsis decipiens is greening up. I think that puppy is still with us.

:greenthumb: was it protected at all?

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