Spring Planting - Who wants to start a betting pool on what dies

[_Keith 773]

So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')
1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)
3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)
2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')
4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')
1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

[Kailua_Krish 582]

What is a supernova queen?

[_Keith 773]

These came from the late John Bishock. I have found very little about them. Here are some Palmtalk referfences

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3270-syagrus-supernova/

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/2807-queen-palms/

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest 287]

So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

If those bismarckia are what you posted in the main forum for ID, then I'd say they're not bismarckia, but sabals. I don't see anything on your list that should croak on you unless you get below the 20F mark. At that point you're probably looking at mostly damage but I still doubt you're gonna loose any of this stuff unless you're below freezing during the day as well. In that case your sabal, trachy and silver saw palmetto will certainly be unfazed, as to the rest, who knows. If I had to wager on which one you'd loose, I'd say the urens is the least hardy of the bunch. The copernicia in Argentina takes 20F no problem.

[Hammer 657]

Dies due to cold? ...or for any reason at all?

[Kailua_Krish 582]

These came from the late John Bishock. I have found very little about them. Here are some Palmtalk referfences

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3270-syagrus-supernova/

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/2807-queen-palms/

Thanks! They sound interesting. It will be nice in a couple of years to compare 'Supernova', 'Abre Ojos', and 'Mountain Giant' to see what differences there are between these robust cultivars. Not to mention to see how the slender hardy forms out of Uruguay and Paraguay end up looking!

I'd vote on the Urens dying first. I havent had much luck here with Caryota, even in warm winters.

[Ken Johnson 199]

I don't like the fishtail odds.... . Any gifts for the winners?

[Texeltropics 15]

That are great species Keith! Here in Holland its not done...im very jalous

[Funkthulhu 385]

I'll take long odds on the pygmy date palm, just to be different and pessimistic...

[Phoenikakias 1,990]

So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

If you reach your minimum I think PR, DD and CU are the first candidates to depart.

[Kailua_Krish 582]

So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

If you reach your minimum I think PR, DD and CU are the first candidates to depart.

I wouldnt bet on that DD dying from cold. Mine has gone through an extended 9a low with very little damage, just covered by a pillowcase. They seem to be very cold hardy here in the hot SE US. Its more about getting them established which is the difficult part.

[BeaumontTropics 49]

I don't like the fishtail odds.... . Any gifts for the winners?

I'd take my chances on the fishtails over the pygmy's...but they'll be close. Ive had a little better success with Fishtail (caryota urens and gigas) then i've had with phoenix robelenii. and as far as the "cold hardy green form" bizmarckia, I've always been under the impression that the green Bizmarcks are more cold sensitive than the "pink" variety (when they're that young). --oops, did i say it? Not sure about the phoenix theo, probably okay. good luck whatever the case, but If i had to put money on your best performer, i'm going with...Phoenix Dactylifera.

[Stevetoad 2,023]

Ill put my money on the caryota. Things seem touchy when first planted.

[Tropicdoc 462]

Keith, theres a huge Bizzie in Audubon Zoo. Wonder how they pulled it off?

[Walter John 220]

So, this spring I planted 22 new palms in my garden, in Zone 9a. Who wants to start a betting pool on what will still be alive this time next year. All were seedlings, 3 years and older. They will receive very minimal winter protection, if any at all.

5 Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')

1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus)

3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba)

2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver')

4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')

1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it)

I'd like to see some photos first Keith, like, whether they have overhead protection of any sort etc., or too much shade if wet.

I'm going to say it sorry, the green form of Bismarkia is.....no I won't say it.

[cajuntropics 1]

Hey doc, Audubon zoo I can understand,but I've seen a bizmark with 7ft. of wood in Baton Rouge!

[cajuntropics 1]

Oh and Keith,good luck with all of them...I don't vote, it only encourages death

[tank 400]

I don't like the fishtail odds.... . Any gifts for the winners?

I concur, fishtail is toast. Decipiens will be dead before it gets cold.

Keith, I'm totally kidding. Good luck on all of these. I would say that other than the two I already mentioned, all the rest should be fine. The pigmy date palm will probably get defoliated yearly, but if its anything like the one I had at my old house, it will look pretty good by summer, assuming you planted it in an area with overhead protection.

[Kailua_Krish 582]

I don't like the fishtail odds.... . Any gifts for the winners?

I concur, fishtail is toast. Decipiens will be dead before it gets cold.

Keith, I'm totally kidding. Good luck on all of these. I would say that other than the two I already mentioned, all the rest should be fine. The pigmy date palm will probably get defoliated yearly, but if its anything like the one I had at my old house, it will look pretty good by summer, assuming you planted it in an area with overhead protection.

Once decipiens gets established it's a fairly easy grow, or at least it has been for me. The cold of '09 and '10 didn't bother it too much.

[tank 400]

I don't like the fishtail odds.... . Any gifts for the winners?

I concur, fishtail is toast. Decipiens will be dead before it gets cold.

Keith, I'm totally kidding. Good luck on all of these. I would say that other than the two I already mentioned, all the rest should be fine. The pigmy date palm will probably get defoliated yearly, but if its anything like the one I had at my old house, it will look pretty good by summer, assuming you planted it in an area with overhead protection.

Once decipiens gets established it's a fairly easy grow, or at least it has been for me. The cold of '09 and '10 didn't bother it too much.

Krishna,

How long have you had it in the ground?

You're one of two people I know who have had success with this palm in north Florida. Please start a thread to update us on your progress with this plant. Hopefully others have had success and will chime in. I've basically just not even bothered with trying this one.

[Kailua_Krish 582]

It's been in ground for 5 or 6 years now? I haven't posted much about it because there wasn't much response to it when I posted updates a whole back. I think there might be a photo of it from this spring in my updates thread.

[Funkthulhu 385]

I'll take long odds on the pygmy date palm, just to be different and pessimistic...

I rescind this bet. I just repotted mine and it is going like gang-busters...

[Alberto 1,619]

Queen Palm 'Supernova' (Syagrus romanzoffiana 'Supernova')
1 Windamere Palm (Trachycarpus latisectus) (maybe it will defoliate)
3 Caranday Palm (Copernicia alba) (very tough!)
2 Silver Saw Palmetto (Serenoa repens 'Silver') (youn seedlings suffered speerpull here, but reovered)
4 Date Palm (Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom')
1 Jaggery Palm (Caryota urens)(I´ve not much hope for it)

2 Cretan Date Palm (Phoenix theophrasti)(bullet proof...?)

1 Manambe Palm (Dypsis decipiens) (who knows/)

1 Pygmy Date Palm (Phoenix roebelenii) (young seedling will die. A trunking palm will defoliate but can recover)

2 Bizmarkia (Bismarckia nobilis) (a supposed cold hardy green form, I know, don't say it) ..............The silver form is coldhardier!

[_Keith 773]

It's has been another long cloudy cooler than normal rainy summer. Most of these seedling have not shown much growth, but I assume are putting down serious roots. They have been well fed, but I assume wanted more sun and heat to get a true foothold. We will see. Soon I will have to decide what to give minimal winter protection, if any, and depending our winter which is widely variable. I'll do an update come fall. Everything today still alive, but I would call non as thriving.

[Tropicdoc 462]

Keith I was thinking for seedlings we can use very large Rubbermaid type storage containers flipped upside down as a tiny greenhouse

Oh and if this is a cool summer I'd hate to see a hot one!

[_Keith 773]

Well, winter has not even started yet and 3 of the 4 Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' are goners. The summer was just too constantly wet. Fungal diseases did them in. The 4th just might make it.

[Tropicdoc 462]

Keith, did you get any fungal leaf spots? Those pretty coconuts you saw are getting them bad.... I think its all the rain on the leaves. I'm sure people will chime in and say no its the climate, but, you can't get much more tropical than highs high 80s and lows high 70s for 4 straight months.

[Alicehunter2000 754]

Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' will be the first to go

Followed by the Caryota

[_Keith 773]

Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' will be the first to go

Followed by the Caryota

I think one might make it, but the other 3 are all but dead already. Summer was too wet for them.

[_Keith 773]

Phoenix dactylifera 'Maktoom' will be the first to go

Followed by the Caryota

I think one might make it, but the other 3 are all but dead already. Summer was too wet for them.

The Serenoa aren't looking very good either. They wanted more sun, more heat, and more dry.

[Phoenikakias 1,990]

Serenoa loves sandy soil and sun. Yours are the green or silver var.? Also ph might play a crucial role.

[_Keith 773]

They were silver, but all rain and little sun has them green and blotchy. I amended the area heavily with sand, and mounded, too. No, I did not adjust for ph. Thanks, I will need to check that. I think they will be fine, if we can just get a normal summer. Our normal summer rainfall is 56 inches. Last 12 consecutive months was over 100" and this calendar year will likely come in easily over 80". And to think just 3 years ago, we broke an all time, since records have been kept, drought. Weather is wacky here for sure.

[Phoenikakias 1,990]

Keith, you and I seemingly have same soil structure (ok probably you have added more organics), but you are in a plain and I am on a hill slope. This can be the cause for a huge diffrerence in ph (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/222.html). My soli is alkaline and I face greate difficulties with not alkaline tolerating palms (probably I have also free lime in the soil, because acidification process always fails), but the silver Serenoa thrives in such soil, and maybe I have the sole specimen in the Med that fruits also. I am not sure, but perhaps also this factor should be investigated when it comes to cultivation of Serenoa.

[_Keith 773]

The first test will come early this year. I may break down and afford some of them a little protection.

Today
Nov 25 Rain 45°/43° 80 % Tue
Nov 26 Showers 47°/34° 90 % Wed
Nov 27 Sunny 47°/26° 10 % Thu
Nov 28 Partly Cloudy 52°/30° 0 % Fri
Nov 29 Sunny 60°/34° 0 %

[sonoranfans 2,914]

my silver serenoa looked to be declining the first 1-2 years, and they are in very sandy soil. Planted as 3 gallon size with 2-3 growing points each, I had spears pulling on some trunks due to too much wet. After the subterranean trunks grew in, the top really started to grow, they are now silver again too... This is a palm where the important action is in getting established is below the soil. If I were you keith, I might cover then from rain to get them established faster.

[_Keith 773]

Well, I broke down and am doing minimal protections on about half of the more tender seedlings. I put an upside down 5-gallon bucket over them. That might keep them just above freezing, but they will get plenty cold

[Phoenikakias 1,990]

What are the the results of your soil test?

Edited November 28, 2013 by Phoenikakias

[_Keith 773]

Early results are in. Even under a bucket, the Caryota looks horrible, 50% foliage lost. Little to no chance it will make the winter. The C. abla blotched up a bit as well, but too early to tell the damage.

On the good news site, the 4 Supernova Queens, some of which took direct frost two nights in a row are fine.

[Zeeth 2,449]

How are the alfredii after the frost?

[_Keith 773]

How are the alfredii after the frost?

The alfredii were fine with the 30/31 temps, but will never see frost in their current location under Live Oak canopy.