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Utopia Palms

Marojejya

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Utopia Palms

Marojejya

3 different forms!

I’m sure that others have noticed that there seems to be 3 different forms of Marojejya we all know Marojejya darianii with its massive entire leaves, and is quite fast growing under the right growing conditions, it also has a distinctive seed that can be easily recognized.

And then we have Marojejya insignis which is often sold as M. darianii it’s seed is quite different to it’s brother M.darianii both these palms can look very similar as small plants and if you had not seen the seed it would be very hard for most to tell the two apart, the only way that I can tell them apart besides the seed is that M.insignis has some red coloration to the base of the leaf where as M.darianii does not.

About 14 years ago a palm sp came in labeled as Marojejya.sp “Bernitso’.

From memory the seed of this one was very similar to that of Marojejya darianii as this was the first time I had seen this type of seed from Madagascar, the palm it’s self is very slow growing compared to the other two forms and has a very long petiole were M.darianii does not have any petiole “petiole absent”

Maybe a few of the other forum members might have a few more photos and information about there Marojejya’s as well please feel free to list what you have noticed.

Note the long petiole on this form.

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Another photo of the same form

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Here are a few photos first of the seeds, the seed with the deep grooves on the left is M.darianii and the one on the right is M.insignis

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One more photo of the seeds

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This is a photo of the form with a very long petiole

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Utopia Palms

Here is a photo of Marojejya darianii about 7 years old.

I will have to take some photos of Marojejya insignis as there are not any in my computer so I will list a few more soon.

Please feel free to put some of your own Marojejya’s photos up so all can see the difference between these different forms. :)

Clayton.

post-592-1170316173_thumb.jpg

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bgl

Clayton,

As far as I know, this is a M. insignis. I have a few of them and they are very slow. This is a 10 year old plant, and this frond is no more than 5 ft/1.5 m long.

Bo-Göran

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aussiearoids

1 at Whyanbeel taken a few years .

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aussiearoids

A few years later .

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Phil

When it comes to growing palms, the guys in Southern California are jealous of those in South Florida.  The Floridians are jealous of those in Hawaii.  And the Hawaiians are jealous of the enthusiasts in tropical QLD.  This picture proves it.

Phil

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Hi Bo

Thank you for the photo I think we will find that because that there so many localities for Marojejya insignis that some of these might perform differently and also I think we will also find a difference in the amount in the way the leafs are divided from regular pinnate, to not quite entire that’s why it would be good for as many members that can list a photo I’m sure there has been many different collections from some of

its different locality’s.

Ps Bo this latest form of M. insignis seems to grow a lot faster then some of the first ones that came on the market.

Hi Michael

Yes they are FAST, they just do not want to dry out.  :)  

HI Phil

But I think in a colder climat they stay at that perfect stage where those ones it the tropics grow that fast that you just get left with trunks much like the black palms, you have seen how big they get up there were they grow a lot slower in your climate I saw you had them listed in your medium section. So I think it’s 50/50

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Jeff Searle

Clayton & MIchael,

    Thanks for the great photos of these large beauties! These are one of my favorite Madag. palms. Growers here in South Florida are still trying to figure out what kind of conditions they prefer when trying to grow them in the ground. I think Fairchild Gardens in Miami, still might have a nice size plant growing in the rainforest there.

Jeff

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Hi Jeff

I think some of you guy and girls have a small problem with your soils the main thing to note when growing Marojejya is that they do not want to dry out!

My soil is all rock not much soil at all, so I can not talk about good soil these seem to grow fine in full sun although you can see a little burn on the one in the photo I listed but this area can get up to 42C in summer, they do grow much better in the ground then in pots the one in the photo is only 7 years old from seed.

So give it a go Jeff get a few in the ground and try a few different spots,

It is one of my favorite palms as well!! Good luck

Clayton.

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SubTropicRay

How true Phil, how true.

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bgl

Clayton,

Yes, this is definitely one of my favorites as well!

A few more photos. First a few of my baby Marojejya darianii....

Bo-Göran

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bgl

And this is my largest individual. About 6 ft of trunk, and around 26-27 ft./8 m. tall overall height.

(And Phil, I had no idea I was supposed to be jealous of the guys in Qld...goes to show how much I know! :P )

post-22-1170366206_thumb.jpg

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bgl

Here's a close-up of the same two palms. These were both acquired, and planted, in 1996 as 2G plants. They were about a foot and a half tall (50 cm) at the time. I bought them both as M. darianii. The one on the left, the bigger one, has obviously been a MUCH faster grower, and it also displays (what I believe to be) the typical darianii fronds. The one on the right though, has been MUCH slower, and the fronds are quite different. But like the "real" darianii, no (or very small) petioles.

Any ideas, Clayton? (Or anyone else)

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jdapalms

Bo,

There seems to be two variations of Marojejya darianii you have as well as I do. The large one you have pictured has the red coloration on the lower portion of the leaf. The other type stays green and grows slower. Your palm should be flowering soon. I think Jeff Marcus's plant is flowering at this time.

Jerry

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Hi Jerry,

I think you will find that the one with the red colour is Marojejya insigsignis. please read above.hope this helps

Clayton.

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bgl

Clayton,

some of the 'typical' darianii palms definitely have quite a bit of red on the part of the frond that's closest to the petiole.

Bo-Göran

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Hi Bo,

This is what I was looking for I would expect a fair bit of diversity in the leaves especially with M.insignis, they are so close that we will have to wait and see after some of them start to seed. But that red coloration to the base of the leaf is a good indication that it’s M.insignis.

Bo do you rember what the seed looked like?

Clayton.

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bgl

Clayton,

I really don't believe those are insignis. Growth rate, frond shape and leaflets are identical to darianii. And I have quite a few darianii, so I've been able to observe these things. I'm sorry, but I can't help with info on the seeds, because all the ones I have in the ground were acquired as small plants, so I never saw the seed. (Jeff Marcus would know!).

Bo-Göran

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Hi Bo,

Thank you for those great photos.

I hope a few other forum members will also list some photos of there Marojejya's as I think we will find many different forms also some of these will grow at different speeds.

Here is a few more photos of some seedlings let me know what you think, are they similar to what you bought or were they a little bigger if so I will list some more photos.

This photo is M.Insignis.

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One more

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neoflora

I to believe there is three types of Marojeya. I got a couple of palms years ago. They were called M. bernitso. They have been incredibly slow!Mardy Darian told me he saw a third type in Madagascar. He was excited to trade with me for one of these M. bernitso. It supposed to be more dwarf in growth.

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Sorry that last photo was not much good

This is M.Darianii

post-592-1170380639_thumb.jpg

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bgl

Clayton,

To the best of my recollection, those seem to be identical. BUT, I have to make a small correction: I just went outside and checked every single M. darianii. Every one of them has all green fronds EXCEPT the big one above, which has a fair amount of red at the base of the fronds. Unfortunately, there's no way I can get a photo showing the red!

Bo-Göran

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Hi Ron

Thank you for that information and thank you for the spelling of M.bernitso, do your ones look like the first photos that i listed?And do they have the same long petiole?

Here is one more photo.

Clayton.

post-592-1170381141_thumb.jpg

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Jakkrit

Good information for M.insignis and M.darianii for me . I just bought M.insignis seed from rarepalmseed.com but with the post number 3 my seed is the same as the seed at the left side .

My M.insignis seedling is now become to M.darianii .... god...

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Hi Jakkrit,

I'm glad this helped you! its pretty amazing what can come from these different topics and its all good fun as well.

All the best.

Clayton.

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jdapalms

Clayton,

I believe Bo's large Marojejya is in fact a darianii. This form does grow much faster than the green one. My M. insignis are way slower than any of my darianii and the leaves show no red in them at all. Maybe there are some red forms of M. insignis also.

I hear that there are three forms of darianii but I only have seen two maybe someone can elaborate more on the third (maybe there is more than three varieties).

Ron, I think your plant in San Clemente is the red one if I remember correctly the last time I saw it it was looking good. I hope the last cold snap didn't set it back.

Jerry

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neoflora

Clayton, Yes the M. bernitso do have petiole from a young plant. This seems to be what the difference is. Also it takes a long time for the leaves to segment.

Jerry, Yes mine is doing okay. It is the red variety. I have grown both and the red is much stronger grower.

Question? Why would we think there are only two sps. ? Madagascar is so unpredictable. Our books current and past are already out of day!

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Jeff Searle

Ron,

  I also had 2 plants with the name M. bernitso. I had them for close to 10 years, and tried them in the ground, with no success. They were extreamly slow, much more than M. darianii. They also had this long petiole. I don.t even remember where I got them from. Probably from Jeff M. They were totally green, no red.

Jeff

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Howeadypsis

Ive never heard of this genus but i like what it does! The growth pattern in that first pic is just weird! Scrolling down I saw what looked like a bearded  dwarf amongst the leaves, :P  they must be HUGE

Cool shots!

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bgl

Clayton (and others),

After talking to Jerry Andersen (jdapalms - see post #31 above) last night, I decided - again - to inspect some of my larger Marojejyas. Reason being Jerry's (and Ron's) theory that the M. darianii that displays some red on the fronds are faster growers.

In April 1996 I acquired FIVE Marojejyas, all in 2G pots, and all roughly the same size (a foot and a half tall, give or take a few inches, i.e. about 45-50 cm). They were all sold to me as M. darianii. In the name of simplicity, I'll refer to them as 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Here's #1. Can't get a full view shot, because I planted two Ravenea rivularis on the right to provide shade for the (then) smaller M. darianii. The darianii has now outgrown the two R. rivularis, but because of its location, it's partly hidden. I may decide to remove the two rivularis...

The darianii now has just over a foot of (messy looking) trunk, and overall height is about 22 ft/6.6 m. or so. This one has NO red on the fronds. It's pretty close to #3 in size (see post below) and the only difference really is the shorter trunk.

Bo-Göran

post-22-1170452134_thumb.jpg

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bgl

Sorry to repeat myself here, but in the name of easy comparison I'm posting this photo again (also in post#17 above).

Here's #2 on the right and #3 on the left.

#2 is definitely different. Doesn't look like any of my M. darianii, and is MUCH slower growing. As of right now (until someone can prove me wrong!) I will assume it is in fact a M. insignis.

#3 is my tallest M. darianii. This is the ONLY one with the red on the fronds, and as is obvious, it's also been the strongest grower, with about 6 ft of trunk today, and overall height of 27 ft/8 m. or so.

post-22-1170452363_thumb.jpg

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bgl

And finally, here's #4. This one has what seems to be a more massive base, and is about to begin forming a trunk, probably within the next several months. It has no red on the fronds. It's obviously been a little slower than #1. At this point the difference may be the equivalent of 12-18 months of growth.

Unfortunately no photos of #5. I lost that one in 2003. It was more exposed than the other 4 and we had some hot and sunny weather and I believe that's what ended up killing it. They can take a fair amount of sun, but need to be protected when they are smaller.

post-22-1170452639_thumb.jpg

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ron@springhammock

Here's a seedling that came up just about a month ago.  This is from an RPS order for M. darianii and the seed were nearly black with the deep furrows.  It’s too young to notice a red petiole, but the initial "sheathing", what ever that's actually called, has a distinctive red tone.

post-436-1170455724_thumb.jpg

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Hi all

This is what I had expected to see, I do believe that there is at least 3 species, also I would have expected to see different forms of the named species.

So Bo until some of these start to seed it will be hard no know what is what, and with the two named species having totally different looking seeds but looking near the same in some cases this only makes it harder. So if every one can pay more attention to the seed and the different growing habits I think we will work this out one DAY!  :D

Thank you all .

Please list more photos if you have some to share all sizes and any information you might have as I never get tired of seeing these great palms.

Clayton.

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neoflora

Bo, How about checking the DNA? This might be a way to identify your Marojeya.

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