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Gtlevine

Quercus tarahumara 2013

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Gtlevine

I have not posted a picture of this tree in a couple years and thought I would update it. It is Quercus tarahumara and it is about 13 feet now and just flushing out for the year. This tree is one of my favorites, it looks perfect all year, grows strong, has great tree structure, giant stiff oak leaves, and without a doubt the most beautiful furry red flush of the new foliage. I'm in love with this one.

Hope you enjoy it as I do.

Gary

DSC_3297_zpsb6d25b41.jpg

IMG_1398_zps25d9b4d9.jpg

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krishnaraoji88

Nice!

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fastfeat

Gary--

Looking good!

Were this my tree, I'd reduce the codominance of the smaller leader (right side of the top pic) by removing the top couple of feet to a lateral. They're a little too close in diameter and height for my comfort, and it's an easy cut to make at this stage.

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Gtlevine

I hate messing with my trees, just let them grow any way they want and usually the end result is natural looking.

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LJG

When you making my air layer Gary?

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Benjamin D.

How much cold can these guys take? I live in zone 8.

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virtualpalm

Where does one get seeds of this species? I have been looking for a couple years.

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MattyB

Does this tree get irrigation Gary?

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George Sparkman

What a great plant Gary !

Makes me think of Dioon sonorense and how great it would be to have that close by.

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Gtlevine

How much cold can these guys take? I live in zone 8.

There is only one person i know that has this plant because he gave me mine. He lives in a cold sink so the tree gets high 20's and frost by him no problem.

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Gtlevine

Where does one get seeds of this species? I have been looking for a couple years.

No idea, hoping mine sets acorns soon so i can distribute them.

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Gtlevine

Does this tree get irrigation Gary?

I do water it some, seems pretty drought tolerant though.

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Gtlevine

When you making my air layer Gary?

Im trying!

:)

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griphuz

Wow, veeeeery nice! If you ever have acorns,...! ;)

Kind regards,

Remko.

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DoomsDave

Wow, Gary, pretty neat!

This picture gives an idea of the size of the leaves.

q.tarahum3.jpg

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DoomsDave

This one is ENORMOUS

Quetar03.jpg

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DoomsDave

Young plant in habitat.

Quetar5140.jpg

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JasonD

It looks like Quercus rugosa, which tolerates 10-15F in Portland, Oregon.

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BS Man about Palms

I remember when that was mostly a stick with leaves.. doing well now..

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Brian Bruning

I have Q. rugosa here in Oakland, grows great. There is a mature speciman in the Berkeley Botanical Garden which is the parent. They sometimes have gallon seedlings for sale.

I'd love to get Q. tarahumara, Q. cedroensis and Q. tomentella. Any ideas guys? We get little hard frost here but I like an evergreen "lath house" to keep falling frost (35F) off my tender chamaedoreas, philodendrons, begonias and the like.

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Ampli

Any update on the development of this marvelous Quercus species? How tall has it grown in three years?

I'm pretty interested in adding this in my garden, but it seems as easy to find as the holy grail.

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Turtlesteve

I'd also like to see an update.....and please put me on the waiting list for acorns.

Steve

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Al in Kona

I remember seeing this Quercus tarahumara one summer many years ago when we took the train that leaves from Los Mochis, Sinaloa and travels NE thru some very beautiful country crossing rivers, and thru mountains to get to the Barrancas de Cobre (Copper Canyon) in the state of Chihuahua.  It is especially beautiful during the summer when monsoonal rains (similar to southern Arizona in that respect) bring about water falls and nice vegetation.  We got off in the small village of Creel, spent one night and returned the next day.  The Tarahmara Indians are in this area.  This Copper Canyon is huge, bigger than the Grand Canyon and with more vegetation.  Well worth a trip to get a few acorns (if you knew when seed is ripe) and see some beautiful Canyon country at the same time.  Now they've replaced the old train with a very modern comfortable one.  I hear it's quite popular for tourists now. 

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Josh-O

I was over there recently and no acorns. I think any year now? But the wait list must be very looooooooooong by now:(

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Swolte

Any updates on this tree? 

Hardiness? Growth rate? Soil type? Water use?
 

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Silas_Sancona
18 minutes ago, Swolte said:



Hardiness? Growth rate? Soil type? Water use?
 

I know of one which has been growing well among a collection of Oaks at a certain garden outside Houston, and Southeastern AZ.. Think there's at least a couple specimens in botanical gardens in the Southeast also..  so thinking hardiness is at least 8b..  Have heard growth rate is moderate -under optimal conditions-.. Would research where it grows in Mexico for ideal soil type, as well as what kind of watering it would prefer.. The Pine/Oak woodlands there receive monsoon season rain during the summer, so this -and other Quercus sp there- would likely tolerate some degree of moisture during that time. 

A note on the species i learned a couple years ago, Most would think this sp. produces large Acorns ( to complement the big leaves ).. It doesn't.. They're actually quite small.

Some other, big leaved Mex. Oaks that -hopefully will find their way into cultivation sooner rather than later worth researching/taking notes on:   *** All Info via Inaturalist data/observations ***

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/275470-Quercus-magnoliifolia

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/275482-Quercus-urbanii

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/638309-Quercus-calophylla

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/567260-Quercus-jonesii

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/282388-Quercus-radiata

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Swolte

Great, thanks. I have since learned that there's one at Juniper level botanical gardens (7b, remained evergreen). They are quite hardy.

Thanks for sharing that list! The Urbanii was on my radar but I'll need to look into the other ones.  I am also adding Q. Conzatii.

They are near impossible to find in the trade, though. Might as well ask Santa!

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Silas_Sancona
4 minutes ago, Swolte said:

Great, thanks. I have since learned that there's one at Juniper level botanical gardens (7b, remained evergreen). They are quite hardy.

Thanks for sharing that list! The Urbanii was on my radar but I'll need to look into the other ones.  I am also adding Q. Conzatii.

They are near impossible to find in the trade, though. Might as well ask Santa!

They are, which is a shame.. Might speak with Adam Black.. I thought he had some of the other large leaved sp. in the JF collection. University of Davis, up by Sacramento, may contain a few in their Shield's Grove ( their Oak collection ), and have heard that at least one of the bigger botanical gardens around Los Angeles may contain a couple sp. as well.. 

As far as collecting in Mexico itself, ( something i'm hoping to do myself, asap.. at least in/around Baja / Sonora ) Have heard that people continue making trips down to collect Acorns, though no idea what species.. Same w/ some of the uncommon " tropical " Pines,  inc the primitive Pinyons, Pinus maximartinezii, P. rzedowski, and P. pinceana ..among numerous other things.. Someone i spoke to recently about un-related stuff was telling me someone he knows is currently in the Monterey/ Saltitto area on a collecting trip. Q. rhysophyla, the Loquat -leaved Oak was one thing his friend was hoping to track down.  Same person was telling me of how others on collecting trips had to have military escort into certain areas that are in the " questionably safe " parts of the country atm. Imagine having armed guards while out scratching around for Acorns.

Part of the reason the ones being grown currently are uncommon atm is a lot of times, anyone who is able to collect may only manage to bring back a few/ few dozen seeds at a time.. and if something goes wrong while germinating/ getting them past the seedling stage, you're back to square one.. Trust me, lol.. stinks when something rare you're growing to eventually pass around fails so soon. 

At least w/ Quercus tarahumara/ some of the other currently rarer Mex. Oaks in cultivation, ..and Pinus maximartinizeii,  there are at least a few specimens being grown around the country that some should be old enough/ close to mature enough to start producing seed which should help make these more widely available to anyone interested sooner rather than later..  Hopefully at least, lol

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Swolte

Interesting!

Adam seems to have a couple in his private collection. He said the one at JFGardens is a hybrid, though. I'll have to take a closer look at it next time I visit.  Do you follow Adam on Facebook? He was actually asking about interest in an expedition. I'd be happy to sponsor for a modest amount if it means we'd get some access to these oaks!

I actually have a loquat oak (see pic) growing in un-amended highly alkaline (!) soil. They sell/sold them at JFGardens. So far so good...

Loquat Oak.jpg

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Silas_Sancona
18 minutes ago, Swolte said:

Interesting!

Adam seems to have a couple in his private collection. He said the one at JFGardens is a hybrid, though. I'll have to take a closer look at it next time I visit.  Do you follow Adam on Facebook? He was actually asking about interest in an expedition. I'd be happy to sponsor for a modest amount if it means we'd get some access to these oaks!

I actually have a loquat oak (see pic) growing in un-amended highly alkaline (!) soil. They sell/sold them at JFGardens. So far so good...

Loquat Oak.jpg

Nice!  That sp. is on my list also.. As well as paying Adam, and the garden a visit in the next couple years after getting out of the desert.  Had read that their tarahumara might be a cross as well..

I'll check in on his FB page so often but honestly avoid FB like the plague, lol..Had met Adam at a couple plant sales when i lived in FL. before he let his nursery go after accepting the job in Texas. Regardless, that would be great if he was able to organize a collection trip -anywhere- either in N.E. Mexico again, or other regions where some of these sp. occur, let alone other sp. of trees not often seen ( if ever ) in cultivation yet.

Saw the garden was offering Quercus insignis recently.:yay:  If only i had extra $ to make a quick trip there for them.. and visit a nursery outside San Antonio that supposedly stocks Texas/Papershell Pinyon ( Pinus remota ) That Pinyon sp. is supposedly the most drought/ heat tolerant and thinking it might work out in CA. ..compared to the species that grow in the mountains there and here in AZ/Utah/N.M.

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Swolte

I hear ya on Facebook. I have become very selective as to what I 'follow' and give feedback on some ads. It helps...

They (at JFGardens) started the nursery back up a few years ago and their selection has been growing exponentially. Its quite amazing what they're cooking up back there. Unfortunately, and I am not sure you're aware, Adam doesn't work there anymore (though he does visit). Craig, the nursery manager, keeps runs it with the rest of the group. It'll take a while before their website is updated with all their offerings.  They don't do mail order yet, I believe.  

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Silas_Sancona
5 minutes ago, Swolte said:

I hear ya on Facebook. I have become very selective as to what I 'follow' and give feedback on some ads. It helps...

They (at JFGardens) started the nursery back up a few years ago and their selection has been growing exponentially. Its quite amazing what they're cooking up back there. Unfortunately, and I am not sure you're aware, Adam doesn't work there anymore (though he does visit). Craig, the nursery manager, keeps runs it with the rest of the group. It'll take a while before their website is updated with all their offerings.  They don't do mail order yet, I believe.  

:greenthumb: Good to know.. Wasn't aware he decided to do his own thing. Maybe that's why i hadn't seen quite as many updates from him from the garden.. Have noticed the nursery's expanding list of offerings as well.. Sure hope they're eventually able to offer mail order, at least for seed or smaller plants.. Still want to visit the garden of course..

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Chester B
6 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

At least w/ Quercus tarahumara/ some of the other currently rarer Mex. Oaks in cultivation, ..and Pinus maximartinizeii,  there are at least a few specimens being grown around the country that some should be old enough/ close to mature enough to start producing seed which should help make these more widely available to anyone interested sooner rather than later..  Hopefully at least, lol

If you're looking for that pine I know a place that carries them.

https://www.forestfarm.com/pinus-maximartinezii-pima340

They are out of stock now, but I know they had them earlier in the year as I was looking at them.  So maybe next year they will have more.

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Silas_Sancona
3 minutes ago, Chester B said:

If you're looking for that pine I know a place that carries them.

https://www.forestfarm.com/pinus-maximartinezii-pima340

They are out of stock now, but I know they had them earlier in the year as I was looking at them.  So maybe next year they will have more.

Thanks for the reminder, lol.. I'd totally forgotten they had some -after looking through their availability around the same time-.. and deciding to hold off purchasing.  Lets hope they do offer more.. Seed sourced from Mexico may be tough to come by, though have read there's a big effort to propagate the species for restoration in areas it had been over harvested for both timber and the seeds. There's at least a few specimens growing in botanical garden collections which should be close to producing their first cones, if they aren't already.

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Gtlevine

Here is my tree today.

gary

B7C17674-3E13-4616-8066-983682905B04.jpeg

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Turtlesteve

Gary, any signs of acorns yet?  Seems like it should be mature enough to reproduce, and there are a bunch of us that would love to try this species...

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Silas_Sancona
39 minutes ago, Gtlevine said:

Here is my tree today.

gary

B7C17674-3E13-4616-8066-983682905B04.jpeg

:greenthumb::greenthumb:  Looks Great Gary!

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Swolte
2 hours ago, Turtlesteve said:

Gary, any signs of acorns yet?  Seems like it should be mature enough to reproduce, and there are a bunch of us that would love to try this species...

I understood they do hybridize easily.  Rooting cuttings may be a better bet!

Gary, what a great specimen. I didn't realize the bark was that attractive.

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Silas_Sancona
12 hours ago, Swolte said:

I understood they do hybridize easily.  Rooting cuttings may be a better bet!

Gary, what a great specimen. I didn't realize the bark was that attractive.

Not sure if you have ever visited the site but there's pictures of ..what is assumed to be.. a Quercus macrocarpa X alba ( Bur X White Oak Cross ) located in Sacramento, over on Oaktopia.org that  grew to something like 60ft in 20 years.. While the site deals mainly w/ finding/evaluation of climate-worthy native/ non-locally native Quercus for urban applications in CA. some interesting discussion revolving around where some of the CA sp. originated, and crosses seen both in habitat, and in cultivation.

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Gtlevine
On 9/30/2020 at 5:35 PM, Turtlesteve said:

Gary, any signs of acorns yet?  Seems like it should be mature enough to reproduce, and there are a bunch of us that would love to try this species...

It finally produced tiny acorns this year. Im hoping they mature and are viable. 

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