East Palatka, Florida, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

[Sandy Loam]

Each year around this time I post a photo of this Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana in Gainesville, Florida.  I have others, but this is the biggest one.  This year, I have no one willing to serve as a size comparator, so the only thing I could use for scale is the large, orange Home Depot bucket (pictured below).

This photo does not show much of the crown, but it does document ongoing trunk growth for a palm that was not supposed to be a long-term tree in this part of inland northern Florida (not far from Georgia).  I am not sure, but it might be about seven years old now. 

Unfortunately, I had to remove the two trees which formerly gave it overhead canopy.  It is now exposed to the night sky if we get any frost this winter.

[kinzyjr]

@Sandy Loam Very nice!  Especially for so far north and inland.  I have a young one, but not anywhere near that size yet. 

[RedRabbit]

4 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Each year around this time I post a photo of this Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana in Gainesville, Florida.  I have others, but this is the biggest one.  This year, I have no one willing to serve as a size comparator, so the only thing I could use for scale is the large, orange Home Depot bucket (pictured below).

This photo does not show much of the crown, but it does document ongoing trunk growth for a palm that was not supposed to be a long-term tree in this part of inland northern Florida (not far from Georgia).  I am not sure, but it might be about seven years old now. 

Unfortunately, I had to remove the two trees which formerly gave it overhead canopy.  It is now exposed to the night sky if we get any frost this winter.

 

It looks great, thanks for sharing. My brother is looking at buying a place up there and when he does I think I might give him a few palms like this to experiment with.

[PalmTreeDude]

On 12/25/2017 at 4:03 PM, Sandy Loam said:

Each year around this time I post a photo of this Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana in Gainesville, Florida.  I have others, but this is the biggest one.  This year, I have no one willing to serve as a size comparator, so the only thing I could use for scale is the large, orange Home Depot bucket (pictured below).

This photo does not show much of the crown, but it does document ongoing trunk growth for a palm that was not supposed to be a long-term tree in this part of inland northern Florida (not far from Georgia).  I am not sure, but it might be about seven years old now. 

Unfortunately, I had to remove the two trees which formerly gave it overhead canopy.  It is now exposed to the night sky if we get any frost this winter.

Sorry to bump this older thread, but I'm just wondering how this palm is doing today, could we get an updated picture? I had no idea you could grow an Archontophoenix as far north as Gainesville! That makes me wonder where else you could get away with these on the East Coast in a sheltered location other than Florida, coastal Georgia maybe? 

Edited September 21, 2019 by PalmTreeDude

[Tropicdoc]

I had 2 sizable Kings  here in 9a. I was using protection methods and they were under live oak and on the south side of a building. A 30 year freeze at 18 degrees plus uprooting them to make way for pool plumbing did them in. I planted 4 more seedlings this spring which are now going pinnate. We will see how it goes.

[necturus]

How did you protect them? 

[RedRabbit]

9 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Sorry to bump this older thread, but I'm just wondering how this palm is doing today, could we get an updated picture? I had no idea you could grow an Archontophoenix as far north as Gainesville! That makes me wonder where else you could get away with these on the East Coast in a sheltered location other than Florida, coastal Georgia maybe? 

You could probably grow these on St Simons Island if you get a stretch of warm years. It’s still a zone 10 palm though, you’re not going to find long term survivors outside of zone 10 in Florida.

[Tropicdoc]

34 minutes ago, necturus said:

How did you protect them? 

Bubble foil and Christmas lights for 4-5 nights a year that we freeze. They had gotten to where I had to be on a 12 foot ladder to do the job. They grow very fast here during the summer. Hot humid days and nights with lots of rain.

[Jeff985]

Supposedly they can survive low 20’s. 21-23f is its limit. Mine have seen 28f with no damage. If you live in a warm 9a it’s worth a try. 

[Jeff985]

Since we’re on the subject of archontophoenix cold hardiness... Cunninghamiana vs. Alexandrae has been discussed here before on several threads. I researched it before buying my kings last summer. There has been a theory that cunninghamiana only handles cold temperatures better because they’re usually planted in shaded areas under canopy. I tested this theory last winter. Last summer a local garden center in Houston was selling both varieties in 15 gallon sizes for $30. I bought three cunninghamianas and two alexandreas. I planted one of the cunninghamianas on the north side of my house under live oak canopy.  The other two cunninghamianas and both alexandreas were planted in my backyard, south side of my house, fully exposed, only about eight feet apart so conditions were pretty much identical. At that time I lived in Katy which is one of the coldest parts of the Houston area. Last winter I think we only had four freezes and at my house the lowest temperature for the season was 28f. The freeze that bottomed out at 28 was a long duration freeze with frost. We were at or below freezing for 11 hours. None of the kings received any protection, mostly because the forecasted low was only supposed to be 32. The cunninghamiana under the live oak was completely unscathed. The two cunninghamianas that had no canopy had some minor frost burn, but still mostly green. Maybe 20% damaged. The two alexandraes died. They completely defoliated and over the next month or two their crown shafts turned black and mushy. I believe what did them in was the duration, not the temperature alone. 

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, Jeff985 said:

Since we’re on the subject of archontophoenix cold hardiness... Cunninghamiana vs. Alexandrae has been discussed here before on several threads. I researched it before buying my kings last summer. There has been a theory that cunninghamiana only handles cold temperatures better because they’re usually planted in shaded areas under canopy. I tested this theory last winter. Last summer a local garden center in Houston was selling both varieties in 15 gallon sizes for $30. I bought three cunninghamianas and two alexandreas. I planted one of the cunninghamianas on the north side of my house under live oak canopy.  The other two cunninghamianas and both alexandreas were planted in my backyard, south side of my house, fully exposed, only about eight feet apart so conditions were pretty much identical. At that time I lived in Katy which is one of the coldest parts of the Houston area. Last winter I think we only had four freezes and at my house the lowest temperature for the season was 28f. The freeze that bottomed out at 28 was a long duration freeze with frost. We were at or below freezing for 11 hours. None of the kings received any protection, mostly because the forecasted low was only supposed to be 32. The cunninghamiana under the live oak was completely unscathed. The two cunninghamianas that had no canopy had some minor frost burn, but still mostly green. Maybe 20% damaged. The two alexandraes died. They completely defoliated and over the next month or two their crown shafts turned black and mushy. I believe what did them in was the duration, not the temperature alone. 

Wow, awesome experiment. Thanks for sharing!

I’d be interested to know how cunninghamiana and maxima compare. On paper it seems like maxima might be the best for Florida/Texas.

Edited September 22, 2019 by RedRabbit

[Jeff985]

I’d be happy to try one if I could find one. Unfortunately I’ve never seen one around here. 

[RedRabbit]

22 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

I’d be happy to try one if I could find one. Unfortunately I’ve never seen one around here. 

Same here sadly. It’s very rare to find something other than alexandrae or cunninghamiana in central Florida.

[Jeff985]

13 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Same here sadly. It’s very rare to find something other than alexandrae or cunninghamiana in central Florida.

Cunninghamianas are difficult to find around here now. I can only find large ones that cost more than I’m willing to spend. Alexandraes are easier to find which makes no sense to me. 

[palmad Merc]

6 hours ago, Jeff985 said:

Cunninghamianas are difficult to find around here now. I can only find large ones that cost more than I’m willing to spend. Alexandraes are easier to find which makes no sense to me. 

That's crazy, weeds here in OZ

You want seed? 

Super easy to germinate 

[Jeff985]

7 hours ago, palmad Merc said:

That's crazy, weeds here in OZ

You want seed? 

Super easy to germinate 

I’ve never grown anything from seed. Seems like a good one to start with. Thanks. 

[Lou-StAugFL]

Here are some photos of mine in St. Augustine.  It is probably about 20 feet tall.  Hard to see with all the other foliage in the yard. It has done very well in that protected part of my backyard.  Lots of oak and cedar hammock in the yard.

[RedRabbit]

Looks good @Lou-StAugFL! How long have you had it there? Ever have any winter damage?

[Lou-StAugFL]

I think 5 or 6 years.  Only one winter, 2018 did it suffer an emerging frond damage.  The big fronds didn't get burned but that emerging frond did and was stunted, but the new growth by summer was back to the normal size.  It has been pretty warm here for quite awhile, nothing like we had in the 1980s.  I'm only a couple blocks from the Intracoastal Waterway so that helps a lot with temperature and microclimate.  I think I'll plant another one next year.

[Sandy Loam]

Sorry, I have not looked at palmtalk for quite a while, so I missed all the comments about my palm photo posted above. Mine is the November 2017 photo of a King Palm, aka. archontophoenix Cunninghamiana.  

Update :  all of my Cunningham Palms died in our big freeze of January 2018. After that experience, I didn't think it was worth trying them again so far north as Gainesville. However, archontophoenix Cunninghamiana or Alexandrae (I can't tell them apart) are not so uncommon 2 hours south of here in Orlando, Florida. That's where Zone 9 B begins or becomes reliably 9B or 10A. I have seen at least 40 Cunningham Palms around Orlando, if not more, and they are often quite big. Some look like they have been there for probably 20 years or more. There are certainly a long-term Palm in that region or anywhere south of there, but they simply aren't very easy to find in most nurseries. That's why you don't see them often, although they certainly do exist there in some numbers.

 

To the person who posted his or her photos in st. Augustine, I would certainly not try this palm anywhere north of that location, or even west of there. Gainesville is colder than Saint Augustine, even though both are at the same latitude. My Cunningham palms grew quickly in deep shade and lasted for about seven years. The killer was two back-to-back freezes in January 2018, separated by only a week of recovery time. The lowest temperature was either 23 or 24 degrees fahrenheit in Gainesville. That's too cold for this species. From 2011 until 2017, they had only seen as low as 26 degrees. They can survive 26 degrees, although they looked much better in the winters when we only got as cold as 28 or 30 degrees on the coldest night. They looked perfect throughout the entire 2017 winter because our lowest temperature was only about 31 or 32 that year. 

 

 Anyway, my point is that these are a solid Zone 9B palm and no one should expect them to be a long-term palm in zone 8B or 9a. In those zones, they will eventually die and you will be unhappy about losing a large palm. It's hard to find palms which grow quickly in both sun and shade, but Cunningham Palms or one of those rarities.  They cannot be transplanted once in the ground (instant death),  but they certainly look nice while they last.

 

 Plant accordingly.

[NorCalKing]

3 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Sorry, I have not looked at palmtalk for quite a while, so I missed all the comments about my palm photo posted above. Mine is the November 2017 photo of a King Palm, aka. archontophoenix Cunninghamiana.  

Update :  all of my Cunningham Palms died in our big freeze of January 2018. After that experience, I didn't think it was worth trying them again so far north as Gainesville. However, archontophoenix Cunninghamiana or Alexandrae (I can't tell them apart) are not so uncommon 2 hours south of here in Orlando, Florida. That's where Zone 9 B begins or becomes reliably 9B or 10A. I have seen at least 40 Cunningham Palms around Orlando, if not more, and they are often quite big. Some look like they have been there for probably 20 years or more. There are certainly a long-term Palm in that region or anywhere south of there, but they simply aren't very easy to find in most nurseries. That's why you don't see them often, although they certainly do exist there in some numbers.

 

To the person who posted his or her photos in st. Augustine, I would certainly not try this palm anywhere north of that location, or even west of there. Gainesville is colder than Saint Augustine, even though both are at the same latitude. My Cunningham palms grew quickly in deep shade and lasted for about seven years. The killer was two back-to-back freezes in January 2018, separated by only a week of recovery time. The lowest temperature was either 23 or 24 degrees fahrenheit in Gainesville. That's too cold for this species. From 2011 until 2017, they had only seen as low as 26 degrees. They can survive 26 degrees, although they looked much better in the winters when we only got as cold as 28 or 30 degrees on the coldest night. They looked perfect throughout the entire 2017 winter because our lowest temperature was only about 31 or 32 that year. 

 

 Anyway, my point is that these are a solid Zone 9B palm and no one should expect them to be a long-term palm in zone 8B or 9a. In those zones, they will eventually die and you will be unhappy about losing a large palm. It's hard to find palms which grow quickly in both sun and shade, but Cunningham Palms or one of those rarities.  They cannot be transplanted once in the ground (instant death),  but they certainly look nice while they last.

 

 Plant accordingly.

Wholeheartedly agree with your entire observations. I usually bottom out at about 28° for winter lows and mine look perfect. One winter we hit 25° and it looked roughed up, but survived. Could also be here on the West Coast they'll take a few degrees lower, due to the drier climate.

[Merlyn]

5 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Update :  all of my Cunningham Palms died in our big freeze of January 2018. 

The killer was two back-to-back freezes in January 2018, separated by only a week of recovery time. The lowest temperature was either 23 or 24 degrees fahrenheit in Gainesville. That's too cold for this species. From 2011 until 2017, they had only seen as low as 26 degrees. They can survive 26 degrees, although they looked much better in the winters when we only got as cold as 28 or 30 degrees on the coldest night. They looked perfect throughout the entire 2017 winter because our lowest temperature was only about 31 or 32 that year.

Ouch!  Sorry to hear that!  That one cold night torched half the plants at two local nurseries.  It hit about 26F here on the second freeze, but the first one was (I think) around 29F and didn't damage very much.

I have a batch of king seedlings that I'm going to plant out next spring, hopefully they'll get some size to them before we see any mid-20s!  Thanks for detailing out your experience!

Edited November 10, 2019 by Merlyn2220

[Sandy Loam]

Merlyn 2220, are you located in Orlando? If so, that is unusually cold for you ..... Like, once every decade for an hour cold.  I remember watching that freezing cold night in real time between 6:00 am and 7:00 am around the state (7 am was the coldest point of the coldest night in eight years).  The weather websites showed Miami hit a bottom low that night of 40 Fahrenheit and Key West hit a low of 53 Fahrenheit.  I thought Orlando had hit 28 degrees on that night.  Anyway, it was a very cold night everywhere in Florida that night.  Naturally, the tourists were expecting 75 degrees in Miami and Key West, so there were a lot of disappointed tourists that week. 

 

Your king palm seedlings should do just fine in Orlando next spring.  I see so many foxtail palms and royal palms around Orlando, and yet they are supposed to be less cold hardy than the average Cunningham palm.  I see Cunningham palms as bulletproof in Orlando; I just can't imagine another 1989 happening again at this point. 

[Merlyn]

9 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Merlyn 2220, are you located in Orlando? If so, that is unusually cold for you ..... Like, once every decade for an hour cold.  I remember watching that freezing cold night in real time between 6:00 am and 7:00 am around the state (7 am was the coldest point of the coldest night in eight years).  The weather websites showed Miami hit a bottom low that night of 40 Fahrenheit and Key West hit a low of 53 Fahrenheit.  I thought Orlando had hit 28 degrees on that night.  Anyway, it was a very cold night everywhere in Florida that night.  Naturally, the tourists were expecting 75 degrees in Miami and Key West, so there were a lot of disappointed tourists that week. 

Your king palm seedlings should do just fine in Orlando next spring.  I see so many foxtail palms and royal palms around Orlando, and yet they are supposed to be less cold hardy than the average Cunningham palm.  I see Cunningham palms as bulletproof in Orlando; I just can't imagine another 1989 happening again at this point. 

I'm located a bit West of Sanford, just outside the "urban heat island."  The official Sanford Airport temperature was 30 degrees at night with 8 hours at or below 32F, with 35mph winds and 0.5" of rain during the day.  The 3rd was a "typical" cold front.  That cold front didn't do much damage, but the second "surprise" cold front really torched things here.  On the 18th it was officially 25 degrees at the Sanford Airport.  It was only really cold (below 28F) for about an hour (7-8am), but it was the worst defoliation (90%) of the giant Peace Lily at my front door in the 20 years I've been here.  The Orlando Airport official low that night was 27, which was still cold enough to do serious damage to Kissimmee nurseries.  Here's the Sanford data FYI:

https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/us/fl/sanford/KSFB/date/2018-1-18

I've tried to plant stuff that won't die at 25F, even if it's seriously damaged.  Initially I didn't even consider Royals or Kings, since they were listed as a 10-11 palm.