Jump to content
Grasswing

Cold resistant Phoenix?

Recommended Posts

Grasswing

Hello everybody,

I wanna discuss Phoenix dactylifera or canariensis and their cold resistance. Do you think that is possible to train a palm from small seedling to survive cold weather (like -15°C)? I wanna try experiment with small Phoenix seedlings: I will let 'em out in colder temperatures to develope cold resistance. Do you think that I have some chance?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sonoranfans

I dont think its a good idea to leave them out in -15c when they are small. If you want to harden them at say -5c, thatt would probably be fine. these palms get more cold hardy as they age. I think the mature Canary Island Date Palm is good to -10 at least without hardening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

Thanks, i didn't ment -15 to small seedlings but lowering temperatures every year of their life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JakeK

I know when El Paso Texas dropped to -13*C a couple years back that fried every Phoenix canariensis in the city including the large mature specimens. By spring, they were all the most lovely shade of beige you've ever seen, and in the fall many were being removed because they were toasted to the core and were dead through and through. -15*C is probably too much for even a mature specimen to endure, but you could wrap and cover them when they are still very small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

There is supposed to exist an ambiguous monster Phoenix in Krasnoyar, Russia maybe g.m.o.?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

I don't know what u mean :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

Wow, how is that possible? If it is result of genetic modifying, i am not sure if it is good idea... But i will try hardening canariensis here in Czech Republic and we will see... How could that russian palm bloom and have seeds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Benjamin D.

I don't know where Krasnoyar is, but Russia is fairly mild next to the Black Sea, zones 8 and 9 near Sochi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

I don't know where Krasnoyar is, but Russia is fairly mild next to the Black Sea, zones 8 and 9 near Sochi.

Misspelled, Krasnodar is correct and in the area of this supposed palm -20 C occure frequently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

How is possible that this Phoenix has blooms and seeds? Normal Phoenix needs long 30°C + period to bloom..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Phoenikakias

Continental climate has warm summers and warm months in spring and fall. But many people are very doubtful about its existance. In twenty years I have experienced only three (3) days of frosty and snowy weather, which allows me not to grow many 10b plants which otherwise would have by now flourished and even fruited.

Edited by Phoenikakias

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

Lets see what nature can do!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dalmatiansoap

That palms are and "officaly" dead as of last Winter. Somehow they were killed by -32C Winter attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

Oh no :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DavidMac

The temperature dipped down to 6 degrees F (-14.4 C) on January 21st, 1985 in Tallahassee,Florida which killed most of the Phoenix dactylifera, sylvestris and canariensis. However a number of them (of each specie) did survive although the entire crown was killed-it took months to see which ones would survive- some palms that were hauled to a dump later tried to sprout out new growth from their bud despite being dug up (I saw Butias that tried to recover after theyhad been discarded). Normally we do not see temperatures this low-and I doubt that any Phoenix can tolerate repeated exposures to temperatures so low.

Edited by DavidMac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

The temperature dipped down to 6 degrees F (-14.4 C) on January 21st, 1985 in Tallahassee,Florida which killed most of the Phoenix dactylifera, sylvestris and canariensis. However a number of them (of each specie) did survive although the entire crown was killed-it took months to see which ones would survive- some palms that were hauled to a dump later tried to sprout out new growth from their bud despite being dug up (I saw Butias that tried to recover after theyhad been discarded). Normally we do not see temperatures this low-and I doubt that any Phoenix can tolerate repeated exposures to temperatures so low.

Thank you for your opinion. In Florida are these low temperatures rare, aren't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Texeltropics

Tried a phoenix canariensis here in Holland. Without protection it did not survive...(temps from -8 - -17 celsius)

I know someone with a bigger canariensis in Holland but he protects it every year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grasswing

Tried a phoenix canariensis here in Holland. Without protection it did not survive...(temps from -8 - -17 celsius)

I know someone with a bigger canariensis in Holland but he protects it every year.

I think canariensis outside without protection is suicide :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DavidMac

Yes Grasswing-temperatures that low are extremely rare in northern Florida-central and south Florida are milder- it has never dropped below 40F (4.4C)in Key West,Florida in recorded history ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
iamjv

Without a doubt, Phx Canarensis survivability depends on some factors like if the palms growth has been slowed down due to cool fall/winter temperatures vice it being in a normal growing state, like you might find in Florida. Also how quickly temperatures rebound during the day after a hard freeze.

I have a PC that I planted in southeastern Arizona that has survived numerous bouts of freezing temperatures to as low as 3F. The crown is totally burnt and it does take a full season (or more) to fully regain the majestic crown but it continues to grow some 42 years later. This palm isn't an oddity, for there are hundereds of PC planted throughout that town and the region in fact, that have survived.

In my opinion, it came from the combination of the palms hardiness, temperatures rebounding during the day following the freeze and the palms growth having slowed down with the cooler/colder temperatures of the proceeding months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kathryn

Andrew - I don't think you can train a palm to be cold hardy by slowly exposing it to more colder temperatures each year. Some plants of the same species might be more cold hardy than others just by variability. If a particular species is marginal for your normal minimum temperatures, you might want to plant several, expecting most to die but maybe getting lucky with a long term survivor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Exotic Life

Don't think they will survive temperatures like that, even with hot summers.

I do grow a Phoenix canariensis since 2004 here and it's still alive and growing fast. Yes, I do protect the palm but also not that extreme. Tide the plant up and then build a shelter around it that it stayed dry. Before the colder winters came that was the only thing that I did but I rarely saw temperatures below -3C and -6C was my coldest. The last few winters (maybe our new ones, who knows?) where much much colder because transport cold, that pushed my microclimate away. I have seen some freaking low temperatures the last few winters, record cold temperatures like whole Holland does. I need to use a heater a few times, but it has seen frost a lot!

Can be for sure, but it has seen temperatures from -7/-8C I guess and some freezing days as well. It had some leaf damage some winters ago and that start with that kind of temperatures. Specially at night is has seen loads of freezes. Proberly I have been lucky that I planted it in 2004 so it had some good years to grow before the colder winters came. It's much bigger now as well, that will help as well to survive the cold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GREENHAND

I have one at my lake cabin that survived 10 deg, it took a whole season to come back and that is on the water with a good micro.i had one in the front yard that did not make it. it can be touch and go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Bruning

P. dactylifera is the hardiest. I'd go for hybrids of that and canariensis, reclinata and robelinii. The hardiness genes are often dominant. As well they have to be selected for. Some cultivars of plants have already had this done. I know of Magnolia grandiflora "Edith Bogue", and many of the Sabals and Oleander offered by Plant Delights Nursery and others that have been selected to survive as far north as coastal NJ and St. Louis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • GregVirginia7
      By GregVirginia7
      Curious to get feedback on peoples’ favorite fertilizer...wanted to get first-hand opinions on products being used...
    • GregVirginia7
      By GregVirginia7
      I’ve done a lot of complaining about the slow growth rate of my McCurtain and Brazoria Sabals...Granted, they are slow growers anyway but I think I made them even slower by not watering them enough...unless there was a serious drought, I would let the rain do it for the most part. But this year, I’ve taken to watering them by hand 2-3 times a week, regardless of rain and Of course, they are growing at a much faster rate than before. Sounds really stupid, but I was going on the assumption that they take care of themselves. I won’t drown them or lead them into root rot, but a more proactive watering schedule is going to put my complaining in the rear view mirror...I can see the results already! And, I just laid down my first application of Palm Gain so I think, given how wet it’s been around here these days, I’m going to see real growth in all my palms, but the Sabals for sure.
    • PalmatierMeg
      By PalmatierMeg
      Last Friday I went to the Ft. Myers palm park by the old railroad museum to collect seeds. I found a plaqued Sabal causiarum loaded with seeds. I know because of the record freeze in TX there is renewed interest in planting Sabal palms because of their cold tolerance. Sabal causiarum is by far the largest of the Sabals as my behemoth specimen on World Famous Sabal Row exemplifies. I was able to pick up seeds at the park but a torrent of rain let loose before I could take photos and I had to sprint for the car. But I have the seeds cleaned and ready to go.
      http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_causiarum
       
      Sabal causiarum seeds: up to 50 @ $10.00 for the lot
                                                      100 @ $15.00 for the lot
      Shipping = $6.00 in padded envelope             No shipping outside the US. No shipping to HI
      Payment via Paypal
      PM me if you are interested. Tell me how many seeds you wish to purchase and give me your name/address to copy/paste on a mailing label. I will PM back a quote. When you pay, tell me.
      NOTE: Please give me 24 hours to respond. After 24 hours, send me a civil reminder.
      Photos

      My Sabal causiarum (not the mother)

    • GregVirginia7
      By GregVirginia7
      They’re here...they appear to be the right shape and size and they were nice and clean...
      Float test had all but one sink so I guess one floater out of 14 isn’t bad...now the reading starts...any experienced tips welcome!
    • GregVirginia7
      By GregVirginia7
      Anyone know a grower who sells Butia capitata var. bonnetti? I really want to try a pinnate and this one appears to be a reasonable candidate.
×
×
  • Create New...