Availability of Cold Hardy Palms

[Ken Johnson]

Now that nurseries have found the huge market for Cold Hardy Palms they have begun production in huge ways. Soon the entire US will have Windmill palms!

[Kailua_Krish]

You're being so cryptic about what this big nursery is mass producing... Spill the beans Im hoping livistona becomes more available in the future, nitida is a very nice alternative to washies which just get too tall in some circumstances and decora is beautiful in almost all situations! It'd also be nice if they started producing C. Microspadix and made them more available rather than have people plant the other species as annuals!

-Krishna

[Jeff Searle]

Now that nurseries have found the huge market for Cold Hardy Palms they have begun production in huge ways. Soon the entire US will have Windmill palms!

Not to sound negative, but what exactly "huge market" are you refering to? Nurseries in central Florida and north?

[Alicehunter2000]

I am a bit suprised that more species for zones 8 and 9 are not grown by big producers. These zones represent a large swath of the southern/southwestern US. Includes some major city markets. From a strictly businessman point of view, I would think marketing and supplying these areas would be a worthwhile endeavor.

Of course marketing would be very important and it would probably take years to establish before it became cost effective on a large scale. However, if one looks at the establishment of Butia and L. chinese as examples, they are readily available at all the big box stores.

One of big marketing things that works IMO is the use of the bright blue plastic planters that say "Cold Hardy". Seeing more and more of this advertising. Starting to see Needle Palms readily available in my area now with this designation.

[Kailua_Krish]

There are a lot more 7b-9a climates in the US than there are the semi-tropical zones... If I'm not mistaken there is quite a bit of growth in many of the southern states which means more housing and more landscaping which should spike the demand for cold tolerant palms.

-Krishna

[Kailua_Krish]

I am a bit suprised that more species for zones 8 and 9 are not grown by big producers. These zones represent a large swath of the southern/southwestern US. Includes some major city markets.

Agreed, and it seems as if the "tropical look" is in vogue again.

-Krishna

[sonoranfans]

As housing picks up, I think all nursery business will pick up. I do think there could be quite a bit more palm plantings in zone 8-9 than there currently are. Hybrids such a butyagrus, and other butia hybrids are good choices, along with sabals, some livistonas, some braheas, chamaerops,phoenix, etc. Most gardeners in these zones only know what the big box stores tells them is available. I hope word gets out that these stores do not give them the choices that are possible, much like fast food restaurants...

[Ken Johnson]

Now that nurseries have found the huge market for Cold Hardy Palms they have begun production in huge ways. Soon the entire US will have Windmill palms!

Not to sound negative, but what exactly "huge market" are you refering to? Nurseries in central Florida and north?

No. Every box store on the east coast and then some. Call them and see what they say...you know who they are....the biggest foliage grower in Miami-Dade. I would not be surprised if they had one million plants under the "Chanel Six" tower

[JakeK]

The big box stores in my area started carrying needle palms and sabal minor several years back. Their inventory is usually maybe 20 plants of each but they sell out before June. I certainly think there is a good sized market for palms in zone 7b - 8b, but below that, palms need artificial protection and most people are fairly lazy when it comes to upkeep of house and garden, so I think the market shrinks dramatically below 7b. Places like Charlotte, Atlanta, and Memphis are really starting to get more palmy, but they are still far from being mainstream and ubiquitous in the garden.

[sonoranfans]

I think the biggest market for cold hardy will be 8a-9a. And there are some great palms that I have just not seen in the big box stores that could be good. Sabal uresana, brahea clara, sabal causiarum, sabal texicana, sabal domingensis, mule palms, butia x jubaea F2, butia all should be good to 8b. Most of these(aside butia) are not typically in the box stores as far as I know. I'm not sure that most gardeners are aware yet as palm awareness is pretty low. Imagine that in my neighborhood very few knew about bismarckias in zone 9b/10a... 6 people planted them after they saw mine for a few months. Im thinking there are lots of livistonas good to 9a, and the only ones Ive seen in big box stores are chinensis and decora...

[stevethegator]

I think palms (very few select species of course) are probably viable in the landscape down to about 7a in the southeast, without much more work than roses or other labor-intensive garden plants at maturity and if sited well.

As I meantioned in a previous post, palms are springing up everywhere in Atlanta and pretty much are ubiquitous here. I've seen a trachycarpus in an old neighborhood nearby that's at least 30 feet tall and has obviously been there for several decades. I've read on other forums about people growing these as far north as west Tennessee with minimal protection.

Even if you can only grow rhapidophyllum and sabal minor, there's something appealing to the northern gardener about saying you have a "palm tree" in your yard, especially when you're dreaming about that Florida vacation in the middle of winter!

I say 7a because anything below 0F is a whole different ball of wax, even for needles, and probably takes more work than the average gardener would be willing to do for what is most likely considered a 'novelty'.

[aztropic]

Now that nurseries have found the huge market for Cold Hardy Palms they have begun production in huge ways. Soon the entire US will have Windmill palms!

Not to sound negative, but what exactly "huge market" are you refering to? Nurseries in central Florida and north?

No. Every box store on the east coast and then some. Call them and see what they say...you know who they are....the biggest foliage grower in Miami-Dade. I would not be surprised if they had one million plants under the "Chanel Six" tower

We even get some of Costa's material out here in Arizona.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[buffy]

Not to rain on anybody's parade, but I don't see a BIG market. Palms generally grow slow and are propogated mainly from seed. That's just not a good recipe for a nursery.

[Turtile]

Every nursery here sells Trachycarpus and all of the big box stores have wide selection every spring. The only problem is that they order for Zone 8 here instead of Zone 7. Palms like Butia can't be planted out in the open and expected to survive but they sell them as cold hardy anyway.

[Benjamin D.]

In the Dallas-Fort Worth area, people can buy blue and green Chaemarops, Serenoa, Trachycarpus, Sabal minor and texensis, Washingtonia, Butia, and Phoenix canariensis. I even saw a dactylifera one time.

[sonoranfans]

people will buy what they see in others yards, it will spread if they like it. I see plenty of coconuts and adonidias that go in yards too far from the water... they will die and probably be replaced. Adonidias are the biggest seller here in palmetto and many of them are put in yards that are too far from the gulf... Again and again...

[Gallop]

Trachycarpus princeps is an awesome plant. I'm growing a dozen or so and got them when they 1st came available.7gal know and most people that visit say they are the prettiest plant I'n my garden. They almost glow at night!

[Kailua_Krish]

I wonder now that mule palms are being mass produced how quickly they will spread throughout the SE?

-Krishna

[Gallop]

Krishna, they will be spread very very slowly, the cold hearty hybrids goes over almost everyone's head they just don't get it. I have a hard time giving my mules away on the Gulf Coast. Unless they are priced as cheap or cheaper than queens it'll be a hard sale.

[Kailua_Krish]

That's unfortunate. Perhaps they'll catch on with landscape designers and be put in more commercial landscaping. Monkey see, monkey do.

-Krishna

[sonoranfans]

That's unfortunate. Perhaps they'll catch on with landscape designers and be put in more commercial landscaping. Monkey see, monkey do.

-Krishna

I agree, people need to see what one of their neighbors yards looks like with some mature mules. then perhaps demand will change. But the business model for hand pollinated hybrids looks tricky, lots of work. I guess it could be a niche market, for those who want a top level tropical landscape.

[Kailua_Krish]

I was just looking at the number being produced in Parrish by Erik which is astounding. The neighbor effect is real, several people have added them after seeing larger ones in my yard!

-Krishna

[DavidMac]

Generally speaking nurseries and garden centers are better places than the big box stores to find rarer hardy palms. Often if you can notify a retail nurseryman of a wholesale source for what you are looking for he will place an order for you-thanks to google and bing this information is getting easier to find At least this is the case in northern Florida.

[ErikSJI]

Krishna the Monkey see Monkey do seems to be catching on for the Mule palm. In fact someone just trademarked another name for the Mule palm I would not be surprised if he has a full paged add in the plant finder / plant list in the upcoming issue. They are spreading at a moderate pace for a palm that was almost impossible to find 20 years ago.

[plamfrong]

Krishna the Monkey see Monkey do seems to be catching on for the Mule palm. In fact someone just trademarked another name for the Mule palm I would not be surprised if he has a full paged add in the plant finder / plant list in the upcoming issue. They are spreading at a moderate pace for a palm that was almost impossible to find 20 years ago.

How many of those are going to the Pacific Northwest, I wonder? It would be interesting to track their progress.

As far as box stores are concerned, a major problem I note in the Northwest is that Washingtonia is often advertised as hardy and/or mixed up with Trachycarpus. This only leads to disappointment for the gardener, for obvious reasons... of course, some people ought to know better than to shop at a box store for plants.

[Kailua_Krish]

Krishna the Monkey see Monkey do seems to be catching on for the Mule palm. In fact someone just trademarked another name for the Mule palm I would not be surprised if he has a full paged add in the plant finder / plant list in the upcoming issue. They are spreading at a moderate pace for a palm that was almost impossible to find 20 years ago.

Yeah, how much these have come down in price is killing me considering what I paid for my originals. I got off on the Wildwood exit of the turnpike the other day and every nursery along the road had a few mules they were selling.

[ErikSJI]

Palmfrong I have been keeping track of them. There is a nursery in Oregon now selling them. And I have about 100 left on San Juan Island WA. from personal stock for testing in zone 8a. They are borderline in the pacific northwest. With the constant 4 months of rain in the winter they hate it.

I believe the Butia X parajubaea to be a better fit for the pacific northwest.

[plamfrong]

Yeah, I agree on that. I got a B. capitata x P. cocoides from Patrick Schafer a few years back, but it has not performed according to my expectations in a pot, so far - it has been very slow growing with exceptionally stiff leaves. I'm not giving up on it just yet as it may grow into something interesting. I have been very interested in Alberto's work with Butia eriospatha and Parajubaea. Now if you just get to work on that, I'll test as many plants as you want...

[ErikSJI]

I would be happy for you to test it. Just need the pollen. We received some in the past but failed as the pollen was fried by the time we got it in the mail. They set seed but it was all wood. I have requested it from several members here but unfortunately have no one that would like to send us any. You can follow our work as well as our growers on our facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/xbutyagrus

[ErikSJI]

Commercial planting of Mule palms Jacksonville FL photo credit TallaFL

[tank]

Krishna the Monkey see Monkey do seems to be catching on for the Mule palm. In fact someone just trademarked another name for the Mule palm I would not be surprised if he has a full paged add in the plant finder / plant list in the upcoming issue. They are spreading at a moderate pace for a palm that was almost impossible to find 20 years ago.

I tried to trademark the name "King of Queens" but someone beat me to it. I was very dissapointed.

[CumberlandPlants]

I think palms (very few select species of course) are probably viable in the landscape down to about 7a in the southeast, without much more work than roses or other labor-intensive garden plants at maturity and if sited well.

As I meantioned in a previous post, palms are springing up everywhere in Atlanta and pretty much are ubiquitous here. I've seen a trachycarpus in an old neighborhood nearby that's at least 30 feet tall and has obviously been there for several decades. I've read on other forums about people growing these as far north as west Tennessee with minimal protection.

Even if you can only grow rhapidophyllum and sabal minor, there's something appealing to the northern gardener about saying you have a "palm tree" in your yard, especially when you're dreaming about that Florida vacation in the middle of winter!

I say 7a because anything below 0F is a whole different ball of wax, even for needles, and probably takes more work than the average gardener would be willing to do for what is most likely considered a 'novelty'.

So, I know this topic is old. However, just wanted give a report or palm availability in the Nashville TN area. We are a strong USDA 6b here in most of Middle TN. Cold Hardy Palms are beginning to show up in the Big Box Stores around here. Sadly, the quality of the plants being sold in box stores is very inferior compared to other growing sources I have used. Actually planning on beginning a palm field of my own because I have to order in cold hardy varieties that my customers want because availability is still greatly limited up here. The goal of my palm field would be to offer high quality Cold Hardy Palms to my customers and hopefully begin wholesale selling to retail nurseries and garden centers in the Nashville Area, Tennessee, Kentucky, and southern Ohio, Illonois, and Indiana.

Some nurseries/garden centers are beginning to carry cold Hardy Palms, but the only variety that I have seen so far is Trachycarpus Fortunei. Fortunei does well here if planted in a microclimate. However, cold Hardy Palms such as: Rhapidophyllum, Sabals, Seranoa, and some Cyacad varieties are all showing great promise here when experimented with. In addition to this, many trunking yucca varieties, and cold hardy cacti also do well here, but are like the Cold Hardy Palms are largely unknown.

Here is a list of palms/cycads that survived the winter of 2013-14 here in the Nasville area without protection:

-Sabal Louisiana

-Sabal Minor

-Sabal Hybrid(exact genetics unknown)

-Sabal Palmetto(was planted on the south side of a house, and had no burned fronds!)

-Rhapidophyllum Hystrix

-Seranoa Repens

-Cycas Revolta(Pups were planted in early fall of 2013 with no roots!)

-Trachycarpus Fortunei(This palm did very well as long as it was planted In a micro climate.)

[Josh-O]

Commercial planting of Mule palms Jacksonville FL photo credit TallaFL

I wish they would plant these instead of boring old queens around San Diego Ca. I'm guessing the landscape company who planted these must like rare and unique palms??

[NorthFlpalmguy]

I know this thread was started in jest but I like growing cold hardy palms nearly exclusively and I am in an area where I can grow both. The south Fl guys wish they could grow decent looking trachys

Sabals and saws get a little tiring to me as well because I see tens of thousands everywhere around... but they are fun to grow.

Edited December 29, 2014 by bbrantley

[CumberlandPlants]

I know this thread was started in jest but I like growing cold hardy palms nearly exclusively and I am in an area where I can grow both. The south Fl guys wish they could grow decent looking trachys

Sabals and saws get a little tiring to me as well because I see tens of thousands everywhere around... but they are fun to grow.

Man! I could probably count on one hand how many cold hardy palm plantings there are in the Nashville Tn Northern suburbs where I am located. Cold Hardy Palms have only recently begun hitting the market here in Middle TN. The box store Trachys and Rhapidophyllum do notoriously bad here. The growing source must over fertilize them or hormone treat them because I have seen plantings that had better sources than what the box stores have, and those plantings do sooooo much better!!! My goal is to start a cold hardy palm field this far north (USDA 6b) with Sabals, Serenoa, Trachy. Takil, Cycas Revolta, and Rhapidophyllum. The palms and cycad previously list survived the winter of 2013-14 with many single digit low temps., and some -0F as well! The coldest temperature survived by the previous plants listed is -3F. There are so many Sabals and Cycads to experiment with! Trying to acquire seeds and seedling to experiment with, and see what varieties can be grown for cold hardy use here in TN.

[Explorer]

In how far is Trachycarpus takil being grown in North America? Here we have a nursery in the country growing them by the thousends from seeds collected in India. The area I also have visited twice. I reckon Trachycarpus takil will be a good adition to the list of coldhardy palms, especially as its a trunking one and it will grow into a nice tree. Well see my picture of one in habitat and myself to give an idear of the size. I do not know its exact coldhardiness. Maybe its even coldhardier then T. fortunei, but its to early to say that as its only since some 5 years in cultivation now in Europe. So when those planted young T. takil are going to experience serious cold winters in Europe with temperatures of -25 C/ -5 F and even maybe colder then we get a realy super coldhardy one!

Another intersting palm is Trachycarpus princeps New. Its a hybrid of T. princeps with another faster growing Trachycarpus, T. Nova. But very lickely less coldhardy then T. fortunei ot T. takil.

Alexander

[Bigfish]

Alexander, there are plenty of collectors and cold-hardy palm enthusiasts growing T. takil, but I seriously doubt that any large nurseries have caught onto it yet in the USA. As long as they can make their money field-growing T. fortunei by the thousands, they won't sacrifice that space for an unknown and unproven palm. Maybe it will prove to be exceptionally cold-hardy and catch on. We can hope!

[CumberlandPlants]

I would love to experiment with Takil, and sell it if it proves super cold hardy. There is just one problem though. I need seed or seedling!!! Anybody have any Takil seed or seedlings?

[Moose]

Here is another cold hardy Trachy

http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/TraNag.shtml

[Ben in Norcal]

There is a nursery by me that has tons of the rarer Trachys in 5g sizes. I've been dropping in a lot of takils and martianus. I'm trying to germinate some princeps myself.