Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
BS Man about Palms

First sub- 30's nights of the season

Recommended Posts

mnorell

The Davis Vantage Pro II (the unit I use for the station at my Mississippi house, KMSNATCH4) is really I think quite an accurate device, and most people on the Wunderground Wundermap are pretty uniformly using either these units or Oregon Scientific, which is another good manufacturer. All the units are radiation-shielded to account for direct sun-exposure and they give surprisingly accurate and uniform readings. And yes, since they are expensive devices, I think most owners read the instructions and place these units under open sky and 5.5-6' above ground level. I've been watching the California temps during this cold wave and the stations, both official and unofficial, seem like they match the terrain, e.g., valley bottoms and canyon mouths much colder than air-drained slopes (I noticed the coastal valley lagoons in north county S.D., all of which seemed to be in the upper 20s this morning right at the mouth of the Pacific). So I wouldn't discount the accuracy of the stations unless you see a unit that is obviously way out of whack without any topographical or other mediating factor that could explain it. As far as wunderground's forecasts, they were always crazy off-base, but now that they are owned by NBC/Weather Channel the forecasts may have changed sources. I could never figure out where they got their bizarre forecast numbers but they seem to be a little better lately (not perfect). I think for forecasts you just have to find out who is catering to your area. weather.gov favors rural areas and the out-of-town airports (!) they demand be used as a home-base for various cities, and does a poor job at bumping lows for urban heat islands or air-drained areas. weather.com seems to favor population centers in their forecasts. I just go by that general notion. After a while, you just learn who's on the mark and who isn't!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jasons

Some very good questions on the forecasts and weather stations. For years, TWC was just a carbon copy of NOAA. They were OK but they did not factor-in microclimates. When everything went to the Internet, they seemed to just repost a blend of their own forecasts & the raw GFS output. I never check them anymore, so I couldn't tell you what they do these days. Probably just so-so as it takes a lot of resources (human intervention) to make accurate location-specific forecasts. Accuweather online is just model output. Don't waste your time. A few years ago, NOAA began offering location/tailored pinpoint forecasts. Here in Texas, they are usually spot-on. Not sure how close they are out in Cali but I imagine the elevation changes make it very difficult to make those pinpoint forecasts. But they probably have the best hands-on forecasts anywhere -- for free anyway. And as posted above, yes the weatherbug stations are hit-or-miss. Most are indeed very reliable. But there are numerous cases of them sitting up on rooftops, next to HVAC systems, inside fence enclosures, etc. Some of the worst offenders are schools and hospitals with state-of-the-art equipment installed by the maintenance crew. Most maintenance crews only care about one thing: ease of installation. There are even some websites poking a little fun at this. So the best bet is to check it out for yourself (if possible) and make sure it's setup correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tropicalb

jason...

you (and randy for that matter) were absolutely correct about the placement of the station next to house...after doing a few tests, it seemed to read about 3 to 4 degrees higher (after factoring in blowing wind and the fact that it was placed near ground level) than the near-properly-hung sensor in my greenhouse in the backyard...

thanks for taking the time to explain it all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hilo Jason
Dang sorry Bret. But don't fret (Bret), because my Spinkle palms are totally getting ripped out too. They are just getting too cold burned, year after year, and the overhang of the house isn't helping. It'll just make room for some cooler, nicer looking, palms.

I'm with you Matty. I am pulling out at least 2 spindles at my place this year after this winter. I have a large one right by my front door that looks great in the summer / fall, but then in the winter it gets a bit burnt up. Then this winter it really got knocked back and it's just not worth being in such a prominent place in my yard. More room for Pseudophenix!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hilo Jason
Burrrrrr!!!! I hope you guys pull through all this extreame cold weather. It sounds to be pretty wide spread.

We are having probably the warmest winter on record, for December and January especially. Our highs have been between 80-82 for weeks now. BUT....we had our devestating cold a couple of years ago. And it was terrible.

Jeff - thanks for the encouragement and I look forward to enjoying that warm weather of yours with you in a few weeks!! I'm very ready for my trip out there!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dorian

I had built protection over the fragile stuff for Friday and Saturday, as those were supposed to be the coldest nights. Sunday was supposed to be warmer, and Monday warmer still, so when the breeze finally picked up and blew down my protection on Sunday morning, I assumed we were out of the woods and just put it all away.

Bad choice. My thermometer for last night at ground level is reading 34, just a few blocks from the coast in Encinitas. That's the coldest yet by several degrees. It's a different thermometer and location this year, but I'm pretty sure that's colder than 2007 for us.

Edited by Dorian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jastin

I took down all my protection today just to see another frost warning. Dew point 27-34 depending on the site and a low of 34-36. The past 3 days I have been 4-6 degrees above their predictions so hopefully I'll be ok. I'm not gonna take another 3 + hours to put more protection up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stevetoad

I seem to be cooling down slower tonight than I have the last few nights. I'm protecting anyways just in case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammer

It felt warmer tonight as I put my boxes and sheets over sensitive plants. 42f at 10pm. I just don't trust it yet. Want to see a couple nights over 40f before I leave the protection off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim in Los Altos
Jim, have you looked at the weather station KCALOSAL1, labeled Los Altos Hills on the WUnderground map? It's a WLS-8000 industrial weather station (runs several thousand dollars and probably set up properly). For yesterday, 1/14, they were reporting the low as 36 recorded at 4:55 & 5:00 am that morning.

Debbie, I know about that reporting station and it's accurate as most of Wunderground's listed stations are in this area. The one station that is often way off is the Loyola one. It swings all over the place but is typically 7 to 10 degrees lower than the other nearby reporting stations. But that's not my qualm with Wunderground. It's their temperature forecasting that's been dismally inaccurate for most of the South Bay. When they predict a low of 25F for Los Altos and virtually all other weather outlets are forecasting 32F or above and the actual temperature ends up being 36F, you see there's a problem. Los Altos hasn't had a low of 25F since the Polar Express of 1990.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tropicalb

feeling good about tonite....no heater for the greenhouse....that thing is EXPENSIVE to run lemme tell ya.

i'm not gonna like my SDG&E bill for jan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gonzer

My low yesterday was 29.7. Today's a little better. Looks like we made it. Now to see Steve's place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
elHoagie

My low this morning was 7C (45F)... Looks like some warm sunny weather is now on the way!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quaman58

I guess it was a bit better last night; if by "better" it's a balmy 33F at 6:00 am, with ice on my roof of my truck. Almost makes me want to go for a dip in the pool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stevetoad

Another beautiful night out in sanfreeze. 29.6f was my over night low. It's 31f right now at 7:30am. I'm now convinced that this weather is never going to end. It will be Augusts 8th and ill still be getting frost. Palms looks better when they're brown anyway right?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jastin

37.7 was the low for me and at 7 it was 39. Weather Underground and The Weather channel apps are both off for me but only by a little. The station by me is pretty accurate with temp and the WC app is better with humidity. Just like Jim said, They both suck at their forecasts although this prediction was the closest. I was forecasted at 34-36 with frost. No frost even on the cars and roof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
George Sparkman

36°F @ 7AM, 34°F @ 4AM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quaman58
Another beautiful night out in sanfreeze. 29.6f was my over night low. It's 31f right now at 7:30am. I'm now convinced that this weather is never going to end. It will be Augusts 8th and ill still be getting frost. Palms looks better when they're brown anyway right?!

According to Randy (inland palms) all of his "brown form" versions of various palms become much easier to maintain, requiring much less water or shelter. It seems to adversly affect the growth rate however. He's the expert on this phenomenon, you should shoot him a pm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vari805

37.4F @ 6:30am I think this was it for this cold snap. Should be back in the mid forties tonight!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tropicalb

38°F for the low here at my house on the hill in san marcos...i too believe this event is finally over....going over to my dad's place in vista to water and check the damage that has been wrought over the last few days...i'll post some pics of what it's like to try and grow plants in the middle of a cold drain later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
palmz

34 f @ 6:30am .. I hate this winter !!!! More burn this winter than last winter for my palms . On a good note the cycads keep on going strong !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99
Jim, have you looked at the weather station KCALOSAL1, labeled Los Altos Hills on the WUnderground map? It's a WLS-8000 industrial weather station (runs several thousand dollars and probably set up properly). For yesterday, 1/14, they were reporting the low as 36 recorded at 4:55 & 5:00 am that morning.

Debbie, I know about that reporting station and it's accurate as most of Wunderground's listed stations are in this area. The one station that is often way off is the Loyola one. It swings all over the place but is typically 7 to 10 degrees lower than the other nearby reporting stations. But that's not my qualm with Wunderground. It's their temperature forecasting that's been dismally inaccurate for most of the South Bay. When they predict a low of 25F for Los Altos and virtually all other weather outlets are forecasting 32F or above and the actual temperature ends up being 36F, you see there's a problem. Los Altos hasn't had a low of 25F since the Polar Express of 1990.

Jim, seems like a good climate there in Los Altos. What about Mountain View? Much of the same? I'm getting tired of living in z9b so I am looking for different areas. I'm considering Irvine as well as it seems a lot cheaper to buy than the peninsula. Except all my family lives up here in NorCal so that isn't the best scenario

Also, last night 29.1F. Back below 32 again... Dew point looks to finally climb above 40 today so we should be fine tonight

Edited by enigma99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jastin

WEather underground says 71. I read 72.9 front yard, back yard 68, and on the ground next to rocks, sidewalk and Bizzy is 85.3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
enigma99
WEather underground says 71. I read 72.9 front yard, back yard 68, and on the ground next to rocks, sidewalk and Bizzy is 85.3

Just wait until Tomorrow or Friday :D

Edited by enigma99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MattyB

I was 42 f this morning. Much better

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tropicalb

just posted pics in the main palm forum of the temps and damage from this event...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim in Los Altos

Jim, have you looked at the weather station KCALOSAL1, labeled Los Altos Hills on the WUnderground map? It's a WLS-8000 industrial weather station (runs several thousand dollars and probably set up properly). For yesterday, 1/14, they were reporting the low as 36 recorded at 4:55 & 5:00 am that morning.

Debbie, I know about that reporting station and it's accurate as most of Wunderground's listed stations are in this area. The one station that is often way off is the Loyola one. It swings all over the place but is typically 7 to 10 degrees lower than the other nearby reporting stations. But that's not my qualm with Wunderground. It's their temperature forecasting that's been dismally inaccurate for most of the South Bay. When they predict a low of 25F for Los Altos and virtually all other weather outlets are forecasting 32F or above and the actual temperature ends up being 36F, you see there's a problem. Los Altos hasn't had a low of 25F since the Polar Express of 1990.

Jim, seems like a good climate there in Los Altos. What about Mountain View? Much of the same? I'm getting tired of living in z9b so I am looking for different areas. I'm considering Irvine as well as it seems a lot cheaper to buy than the peninsula. Except all my family lives up here in NorCal so that isn't the best scenario

Also, last night 29.1F. Back below 32 again... Dew point looks to finally climb above 40 today so we should be fine tonight

Debbie, Mountain View, being even closer to the bay than Los Altos, has slightly milder night time temperatures unless you compare them to Los Altos' higher altitude microclimates. I have clients on or near hilltops here in Los Altos that never see frost. Those are the most fun projects because I can plan with much more tropical plants than down in the lowlands. Even closer to you in Gilroy I have a client in Jackson Oaks whose bananas are always green by the end of winter. Jackson Oaks, in Morgan Hill, is on a hilltop and the residents enjoy much milder mornings than down in the frosty valley.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hilo Jason

Low of 38 for me last night. Loved the warmth today. This week is looking good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammer

36 was my low. 67 for the high. Tonight should be much better. All the container palms went back outside tonight. Currently 48 @ 8:30pm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Palm Tree Jim

Last night I took all my plants out of the garage and put them back outside as well.

Maybe we can get back to enjoying this crazy hobby!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
George Sparkman

57°F @ 6AM, 54°F @ 4AM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quaman58

35F at 5:30. Yeah baby, heat wave! Got home with a little bit of fading light last night; the worst looking palms were my 15 foot Roystonea borinquena (looked great over the weekend, but fried now) & a Veitchia, (planted in a dumb place).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hilo Jason

I just did my first thorough walk through of my garden this morning and am surprised that I don't see more cold damage. There's minor spotting on Wodyetia, Kentiopsis and Veitchia. All of the Archontophoenix, Chambeyronia and Rhopalostylis have no spotting. I think the velez-ness of my garden helped protect it. I'm glad this happened this year and not a year or two ago as stuff is much more mature now and I think could handle the cold better and also protect each other with the closeness of how they are planted.

There are a few palms that I plan on pulling out this spring, but overall, I'm very relieved with what I saw this morning. Maybe some more damage will show up in the next few days / week, so I will update accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MattyB

We had a low of 50 f this morning, but driving through El Cajon (hwy 8 near Mollison) I observed a lot of frost on roof tops. Yikes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stevetoad

34f for me this morning. light frost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim in Los Altos

Still dropping into the mid 30's here at night. Our high today, however, is expected to be 66F and warmer over the weekend into next week. Spring fever!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vari805

75F and sunny......low of 42 at 6:30am

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jastin

Low of 52 this morning. Now i'de like some rain please

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stevetoad

34 this morning. the whole world is out to get me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MattyB

dude, that's crazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...