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Cold Tolerance of a Trunking Bismarkia


buffy

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Real simple. I'm in Anguilla looking at some trunking size Bizzies. Seems like they have a tremendous amount of crown mass. If little ones can take into the mid 20s, I'd think a trunking specimen could take into the upper/mid teens fine.

Longview, Texas :: Record Low: -5F, Feb. 16, 2021 :: Borderline 8A/8B :: '06-'07: 18F / '07-'08: 21F / '08-'09: 21F / '09-'10: 14F / '10-'11: 15F / '11-'12: 24F / '12-'13: 23F / '13-'14: 15F / '14-'15: 20F / '15-'16: 27F / '16-'17: 15F / '17-'18: 8F / '18-'19: 23F / '19-'20: 19F / '20-'21: -5F / '21-'22: 20F / '22-'23: 6F

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There were some south of Ocala that experienced around 18 degrees in 2010 I think. They survived but still only have maybe three stunted leaves. I think that Bizzies are only good in between cold snaps and best looked at as a temp palm in 9a south east. That's been my experience, maybe others have had different ones?

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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The Freeze Damage Data Subforum: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showforum=13

has a lot of information like this compiled over the years.

Here's the thread on Bizzy specifically: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=2996

Post #22 from Iwan is quite interesting, regarding possible temps in the teens.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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There's one near me at a gas station facing I-10 that survived the 2010(17F, killed most queen palms) and 2011(low 20s, with multiple days failing to reach 40F) freezes. It was only starting to produce normal fronds when I last saw it about a month ago...

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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I'm gonna say that you won't be able to keep them long term where you are. We have tons of them in Brownsville. Two years ago, we had an ice storm with 24 hrs at 29 degrees. That killed at least half the trunking Bizzies around here. I very much doubt they would take below 20 degrees for more than a few hours.

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I'm gonna say that you won't be able to keep them long term where you are. We have tons of them in Brownsville. Two years ago, we had an ice storm with 24 hrs at 29 degrees. That killed at least half the trunking Bizzies around here. I very much doubt they would take below 20 degrees for more than a few hours.

I agree. I have heard of Bismarckias being planted in Jacksonville, but if they survive there, that's basically the limit to their range--I would seriously doubt this palm could survive longterm in zone 8b even.

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I'm gonna say that you won't be able to keep them long term where you are. We have tons of them in Brownsville. Two years ago, we had an ice storm with 24 hrs at 29 degrees. That killed at least half the trunking Bizzies around here. I very much doubt they would take below 20 degrees for more than a few hours.

I agree. I have heard of Bismarckias being planted in Jacksonville, but if they survive there, that's basically the limit to their range--I would seriously doubt this palm could survive longterm in zone 8b even.

I agree with both Oliver and Andrew. The same icestorm killed a small Bismarckia at the Mercer Arboretum in Houston a couple of years ago, although it did also get down to 20-21 there that winter (it 24 during the ice storm if I remember correctly).

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The only Bismarckia that I know of growing before the freezes of the 1980's in central FL is the old specimen at the FIT campus in Melbourne. It would have been planted back in the 1960's, maybe early '70s. It survived the freezes of 1983, 1985, and 1989. Temperatures would have been in the low 20sF in Melbourne with long durations below 32F.

img_4995.jpg

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Nice looking specimen Eric.... interesting truck damage/deformation on the lower half and that constriction mid-way up the trunk.... freeze damage maybe????

Jv in San Antonio Texas / Zone 8/extremes past 29 yrs: 117F (47.2C) / 8F (-13.3C)

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This one has always had a sparse crown since I first started visiting there in the early 1990's.

My guess is that trunk anomaly is from the severe '80's freezes.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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The only Bismarckia that I know of growing before the freezes of the 1980's in central FL is the old specimen at the FIT campus in Melbourne. It would have been planted back in the 1960's, maybe early '70s. It survived the freezes of 1983, 1985, and 1989. Temperatures would have been in the low 20sF in Melbourne with long durations below 32F.

img_4995.jpg

Eee gads, this one may be a survivor, but I don't think you'd put it in a beauty contest. Its a scraggly specimen (but I'm kinda that way too and I also survived the 1980s).

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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FWIW, mine in Jacksonville has not reached trunking size yet. Its been in the ground about 7 years and if it had been planted in Miami, it'd have 5' of fat trunk already. Its damaged every year, but when I saw it just before Christmas (I'm renting the house now so I don't live near it any more), it looked good. It had reached the "teenage years" when it was in in your face all the time. The renters had to "downsize" one of the fronds. Frankly I never thought it would last anywhere near as long as it has. It surprised me by surviving lows just above 20 two nights in a row. The daytime high was cold too, but it did get above freezing...barely. Frankly, if it survives, its going to be a big, fat, problem in the landscape. It simply doesn't have the space it needs.

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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I've planted my first two bismarkia (silver form) in 2001, then some more 2-3 years later, and others some years after that. I have a total of nine bismarkia palms. Five (in the below photo) are planted in a row of unequal spacing. The other four are planted at four other locations about my property.

Over all those years (winters) I've found my bismarkia palms do well as long as nighttime lows don't go below the high 20s with light frost. Once temperatures drop into the mid 20s with frost cosmetic leaf damage starts. By low 20s total defoliation starts.

I've had many winters were the bottomost (oldest) fronds get frost/cold damage to various extents.

But December of 2010 was by far the most damaging to my bismarkia palms. I had about eight nights below 30 degrees F (-1.1C), and all nights were radiational cooling events with virtually no wind.

Three of those nights were below 25 degrees F (-3.85C). And my coldest night was 20.8 degrees F (-6.16C), which was my all-time lowest temperature in the 15 years I've lived here. That night it went about 12 hours or more below freezing 32F/0C.Where I had my thermometer that night is not the coldest area of my property, and I believe the temperature in the coldest areas probably dropped below 20 degrees, because just 10 miles south of me at Archbold Biological Station, that has an official weather station recorded 15 degrees F (-9.35C).

All the bismarkia in the below photo had almost total frond defoliation to the lower half of the crown, yet the top half of the crown fronds had no damage. I attribute this to the fact that the freeze was radiational and the coldest air was lower but warmed up just enough 8-10 feet above the ground; the top fronds were more vertical, thus exposing less horizontal flat area towards the sky.

I have no doubt that once a bismarkia palm develops a trunk, it could at least take into the upper teens F for short durations. Just how low would have to be determined by those who live in a colder climate than I do.

In terms of S.E. USA climate, I believe the silver form bismarkia palm to be a high USDA zone 9b palm. I believe it will grow long term in zone 9a but with varying amounts of frond damage depending on severity of winter. I believe it might also grow in the high end of zone 8b, but with considerable more damage. The palm will probably never look great in zones below 9b, but will probably survive. But I'm talking about a fully trunked bismarkia, not an untrunked one.

Backyardbismarkia_zpsaf0a389e.jpg

Mad about palms

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Walt, your bizzy's are gorgeous.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Love your grove of bizzies walt, WOW! I would add that having all those bizzies together in close proximity helps trap ground heat in a radiational cooling event, thus keeping them warmer. During that 2010 low near my place low temps were 27F or so, and I noticed that foxtail triples near me did much better than the same size singles. And Royals in groups also did much better...

Edited by sonoranfans

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Walt, your bizzy's are gorgeous.

Thanks for the compliment. My wife loves those palms. She says they are her favorites of all of my palms.

Mad about palms

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Love your grove of bizzies walt, WOW! I would add that having all those bizzies together in close proximity helps trap ground heat in a radiational cooling event, thus keeping them warmer. During that 2010 low near my place low temps were 27F or so, and I noticed that foxtail triples near me did much better than the same size singles. And Royals in groups also did much better...

Yes, closeness of planted palms probably does help mitigate frost and lower temperatures to some degree.Still, in retrospect I wish I had spaced my bismarkia palms just a little farther apart, as I don't like the fronds from each palm touching the other ones and/or growing too far into the canopy of adjacent ones.

Mad about palms

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Hi all, I'm new at the forum.

Regarding the Bismarcks, can anyone comment on their tolerance to salt spray and wind in coastal / seashore situations?

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