King Palm Problem

[MattyB]

Hi ya'll,

My largest king palm (A. cunninghamiana) is having a problem I think.  5 of the lower branches have dried up and turned brown in one week!  We have had some extremely dry weather here but none of my other palms are having a problem at all.  This palm has about 4 feet of clear trunk, it's 12 inches wide at the base, and is 15 feet tall to the tip of the spear.  I know that it's well watered.  It was one of the first palms I planted and it went straight into the clay, no ammendments.  So, I thought, "uh oh, it could be rotting!"  So I squeezed the crownshaft and it's sort of soft but it can't tell if I'm just feeling the movement of the outside leafbase thats dehydrated and not so full and plump now.  I got on a ladder and tried pulling on the spear and it's tight.  The only other wierd thing is that one of the fronds rachis is kinked and the second half of the frond is now pendant.  What does that mean?  I don't have any pictures but all the brown dry fronds are in the trash and you can't feel the crownshaft anyway.  So, what's up with my King? ???

[Dypsisdean]

Sounds like you will have some free space for a more exotic palm  

[MattyB]

That's a positive way to look at it Dean.  Really since I plan on moving withing 1-2 years I won't be putting any super special stuff there (If it dies).  Maybe I'll just get a Home Depot Queen and put it there to help replace my canopy action.  Man, listen to me!  It's like arguing over grandpa's will and he's not even dead yet!  I'll probably come out one morning and it'll be flopped over like it's in yoga class.

[bgl]

Matt,

Reminds me of a good size Clinostigma samoense that I lost a couple of years ago. It was probably 25 ft tall (and only one of two C. samoense that I ever lost). It had some problem with the new spike (some bug), and because it was so tall I didn't notice the problem until it was too late. I remember cutting it down with a chainsaw and thinking "YES!!! This will be great! Plenty of room for these other palms to spread out now!!

Bo-Göran

[redant]

Certainly sounds like a classic example of not enough H2o. Problem with this is there maybe sever reasons for not enough water to the palm. First being not enough water, second is to much water or rot that has effected the roots, hence the palm is dying of thirst. A quick dig around the roots might answer the question.

All this you know of course.

Unless it's option #1, from my experience just get out the saw & shovel and replace. 9.9 times out of 10 you never fix things like this.

[spockvr6]

One of my Kings (A. cunninghamiana) has also been acting strange.

The last spear that came out was completely white...almost with a slight pinkish tint to it.  Well, the spear never "hardened" and merely fell over and broke off when if was about 3-4 ft long.

But, the spear kept coming out (and still keeps coming out) at a normal pace.  So, the palm is still growing.

I assumed this was some sort of rot?  The palm itself seems fine, and as mentioned, has continued growing (and pushing out white spear).

I treated the palm to a good dousing of hydrogen peroxide, as well as a systemic insecticide.  

Anyone know what this might be?

[MattyB]

Spock, I had a King throw a white spear once.  It was rubbery and never "hardened".  That spear eventually pulled out of the crown and I layed the palm to rest.  It was only a  3-4 foot tall palm and I didn't want to wait for it to recover.  "Yer outta here!"

[spockvr6]

(MattyB @ Nov. 10 2006,11:26)

QUOTE

Spock, I had a King throw a white spear once.  It was rubbery and never "hardened".  That spear eventually pulled out of the crown and I layed the palm to rest.  It was only a  3-4 foot tall palm and I didn't want to wait for it to recover.  "Yer outta here!"

Sounds exactly like what this one is doing.  "Rubbery" would aptly describe the spear.

The new growth coming out is also white, but not as "rubbery".  The palm is not a huge one, but does have about a foot of trunk.   So, I might wait this one out and see what happens over the next few months(as these palms grow right through winter and barely skip a beat).

[MattyB]

Yeah, I remember Jack (elHoagie) saying that he always has Kings doing this (rubbery/pulled spears) and after pouring some Hydrogen Peroxide down their throats they recover fine.  Sometimes they do it again the next year.  Ask him.

[palmazon]

he's on the big island, hangin w/bgl - lucky dog

[bgl]

Well, yes, actually he's up on the summit of Mauna Kea doing hard time  but after he's done we're going to try to revive him with the sounds, smells and visions of thousands of tropical palms. Have no idea if he's able to check the Forum while he's up there in the thin air...

[Walter John]

A. cunninghamiana is a thirsty beast, try calling it "bangalow" instead of "king", that might help as well.

[spockvr6]

(Wal @ Nov. 10 2006,22:19)

QUOTE

A. cunninghamiana is a thirsty beast, try calling it "bangalow" instead of "king", that might help as well.

About 0.01% of people around here will know what the heck I am talking about!

Fortunately or unfortunately.....around here "King Palms" seem to be anything Archontophoenix.  Sometimes I will hear "KIng Alexander" which refers to A. alexandrae.

But, I personally like the sound of Bangalow Palm/

[spockvr6]

(MattyB @ Nov. 10 2006,16:22)

QUOTE

Yeah, I remember Jack (elHoagie) saying that he always has Kings doing this (rubbery/pulled spears) and after pouring some Hydrogen Peroxide down their throats they recover fine.  Sometimes they do it again the next year.  Ask him.

I checked mine this AM and the palm seems to be recovering.  The spear coming out is still lighter colored, but is now much firmer.

[spockvr6]

(Wal @ Nov. 10 2006,22:19)

QUOTE

A. cunninghamiana is a thirsty beast,

And mine stay drenched as I know they like it as such.

These palms really are star performers IMO. They grow right through cool weather as good, or better than really, any other palm in my yard.

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Matt, I just recently did a post mortem on an Alexandra that a buddy has, and it did exactly the same thing as you had described.

    Everything seemed to OK in the crown, but there was definite necrosis in the root initiation zone…..no real clue as to why, but my first finger would point to Phytopthera…it is a fairly common root (and crown and bole) pathogen.

    If the root system suffers failure, for any reason, the plant will show immediate signs of moisture stress…..pathogens in the woody tissue of plants cause decline in a pretty straight forward way…..dying tissue means damaged "plumbing", which means no water or elements going to the leaves for photosynthesis, or no photosythate going from there to the rest of the plant.

And Larry, I have to agree with you on the growth rate, these palms really take off after they get their feet set.

[spockvr6]

(Rusty on Pine Is. @ Nov. 11 2006,06:45)

QUOTE

And Larry, I have to agree with you on the growth rate, these palms really take off after they get their feet set.

The "feet set" is key.

When I planted my first one, I was quite disappointed.  It seemed to be very slow.  But, it just took a little more time to get settled, and then it took off.

Every one I have planted since has done the same thing.  The same goes for Foxtails.  I have planted 15 of them in my yard and all of them are slow to start, then gain momentum.

Other palms, like Veitchia for instance, grow straight away upon planting.

[MattyB]

Well, it's losing another leaf.  I think that's 6 in just 2 weeks.  It's very wet soil there, so it must be the rot that's imeading the take up of water.  Daaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh     Nabit!  Oh well, I've got a cooky little China Doll that needs to be put into the ground and it loves wet feet.

[BigFrond]

MattyB you will need to water them more than just once a week.  In the summer, I water them just about everyday.  Now with old man winter slowly creeping in, I will water them about 2 or 3 times a week.  In a few weeks, I will water them once a week.

Just like spockrv6 have said.  My kings and wodyetia were very slow the first year.  The second year is a different story.  They are growing like gangbusters, especially the kings.

Hehehe... I have some 1 gal vetchias that I got Gary Wood.  Man, these guys are fast even though I just moved them over to 5 gal pots.

[MattyB]

Ding dong the King (bungalow) is dead!

"Well there's yer problem right there!"

[MattyB]

Rusty was right.  What I'd forgotten is that this was one of the first palms I planted about 3 years ago and I've since raised up the border and soil level in that planter.  As you can see the soil level was probably about 4-5 inches too high and it just rotted the plumbing out.

[MattyB]

After easily pulling some of the bark away I noticed that it was soft and mushy underneath and I could stick my hand clear inside the trunk.  It was mushy and yucky!  Live and learn.  What to put there next....hmmmmmm......

[spockvr6]

The look of that trunk base is ecatly the same as the Ptychosperma in my thread here---

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboar...t=ST;f=1;t=789;

I guess mine is not far behind yours.

[MattyB]

Well, it was because of Rusty's suggestion to get rid of the plant ASAP on your thread that I went ahead and chopped it down.  I'm glad I did because I have 2 Ptychospermas and a Ravenea glauca within a few feet of the decaying trunk.

[spockvr6]

(MattyB @ Nov. 22 2006,13:16)

QUOTE

Well, it was because of Rusty's suggestion to get rid of the plant ASAP on your thread that I went ahead and chopped it down.  I'm glad I did because I have 2 Ptychospermas and a Ravenea glauca within a few feet of the decaying trunk.

I guess I better do the same to mine ASAP as well  

Now....I wonder what I should put there instead?

[MattyB]

Yeah, I'm contemplating 2-3 Chamaedorea plumosa, Veitchia arecina, 2-3 Chamaedorea radicalis, D. fine leaf (ambo. fakey), oh maybe I'll give my Carpentaria acuminata a try as an experiment.  Lot's of choices.......I'll have to take a pic of the area and employ the advice of you guys/gals on the board!  Stay tuned for a new thread.

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Hey Matt and Larry, I dont know what your plans are for a re-plant, but before either of you  plant another palm in their place, I would either get rid of all the old soil or better yet treat the existing soil to prevent reinfection if the cause was phytopthera....it is an 'if', of course, without a test of the roots,  but if it is a rotted root system i would take the safe road.

Phytopthera  is pretty unique as a pathogen in that it can swim thru soil to affect a palnt's roots, and the changed electical charge in a water logged root actually sends a signal to the phytop. , like a road map.  Phytopthera lives in the soil for a long time, so it can and will affect any susceptible plant put back in that spot....it does help if there is good drainage, but that may not offer adequate protection.

Subdue as a soil drench will work, but it isnt cheap....but then again neither is a 3rd palm if the second one goes belly up too!

[MattyB]

The roots looked healty and not rotted at all.  The rot seemed to be confined to the base of the trunk; mostly inside of it.  I've already drenched the soil w/ Daconil and will do one more application before planting another palm.  I think I'm gonna be lazy and not dig out the old root ball.  We'll see.  Hopefully I won't be sayin', "You told me so".  I'm not gonna plant anything super special there so it's no biggie.  Thanks for the advice Rusty.

[BS Man about Palms]

(MattyB @ Nov. 22 2006,09:03)

QUOTE

After easily pulling some of the bark away I noticed that it was soft and mushy underneath and I could stick my hand clear inside the trunk.  It was mushy and yucky!  Live and learn.  What to put there next....hmmmmmm......

Shon-

Are you catching this?.......  (last time I was over, I was on my knees, exposing his trunks..... ???)

[Danilopez89]

One of my Kings (A. cunninghamiana) has also been acting strange.

The last spear that came out was completely white...almost with a slight pinkish tint to it. Well, the spear never "hardened" and merely fell over and broke off when if was about 3-4 ft long.

But, the spear kept coming out (and still keeps coming out) at a normal pace. So, the palm is still growing.

I assumed this was some sort of rot? The palm itself seems fine, and as mentioned, has continued growing (and pushing out white spear).

I treated the palm to a good dousing of hydrogen peroxide, as well as a systemic insecticide.

Anyone know what this might be?

Spock, I had a King throw a white spear once. It was rubbery and never "hardened". That spear eventually pulled out of the crown and I layed the palm to rest. It was only a 3-4 foot tall palm and I didn't want to wait for it to recover. "Yer outta here!"

Yeah, I remember Jack (elHoagie) saying that he always has Kings doing this (rubbery/pulled spears) and after pouring some Hydrogen Peroxide down their throats they recover fine. Sometimes they do it again the next year. Ask him.

What's the deal with these white spears? It's happening to my little king palm. Should I treat it with something or is this something "sorta" normal? I sometimes see bizzies with a white new frond that just dries out. Some people remove it, some don't. Is this something similar?