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Alicehunter2000's Beach Party by Ken Johnson

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Ken Johnson

David is Alicehunter2000's name. He loves PalmTalk so much that he has used it as a center of knowledge and resources for all things palms. His newest endeavor will be to build his family's dream home on Fort Walton Beach, Florida. David's goal is to landscape with mature palms and he has contacted me to help with the entire project. By posting here we can include all of you in the design, construction, plant selection and fun of this project. Look for Alicehunter2000 in the chat room, he's always chatting about project status there.

Join the party! Site plan will be posted soon. Stay tuned... B)

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Alicehunter2000

Hello all......I'm very excited about working with Ken as well as all of you. Throughout the years I have relied heavily on the PalmTalk members for any questions related to palms and tropical looking plants that can grow in my zone 9a. For you international folks who are not familiar with our zone system, Zone 9a is basically the Queen Palm zone. Our temps will go down on occasion to the low 20's for a few hours but normally go back above freezing when the sun comes up.

My particular location is Seacrest Beach in a little non-rental subdivision called Sand Cliffs by the Gulf. It is very near Rosemary Beach on Hwy. 30a. The lot that my family has purchased is not very big, but is only 200 steps to the Gulf of Mexico. Being so close to the Gulf should moderate my temperatures substantially and I am hoping to be able to grow some marginal 9b and even 10a palms in sheltered locations.

Here is the setup....my plan is for a 1 story Mediteranian style stucco home with a 30 ft gulf observation deck on the back side. The home will be U shaped with the U facing north and a small heated pool and central courtyard located inside the U. There will be planting areas around the back of the pool and it will also be screened above at about 25ft. in height. The backyard is very shallow.....20 ft. deep and 117ft. wide and it does face north.The front of the house faces the Gulf.

Ken and I plan to use alot of mature palms to create a jungle with sitting areas, hammocks and firepit. We have been using PalmTalk chat room and personal messenger to get to the point at which we thought it best to involve the rest of you. The plant list is in flux and can be changed, but we are feeling pretty good about what we have come up with so far. Here is the plant list to date:

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Alicehunter2000

Hardy List

5 S. palmetto 20-30 ft.ct (heights staggered)

1 S. causiarum (20+ ft.?)

5 W. robusta (15ft.+)

5 L. decipens (height?)

3 Mules (4' ct) -Provided By Mark Heath

1 C. alba (20' ct)

1 A. totai (10' ct)

1 S. urseana blue form (starting to trunk)

A. wrightii (6'+) multi-head

Marginal list

5 Queens (20')

1 A. cohune (28' oa)

1 Bizmarkia (Large Pot)

1 G. crispa (16' oa)

Edited by Alicehunter2000

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Zeeth

If you want to try some 9b stuff, Sabal mauritiiformis and maybe a Beccariophoenix alfredii (in a protected spot) are two that I can think of. Also don't forget the various Chamaedorea species for the understory. Also I've heard of people doing well with Parajubaea sunka and Dypsis decipens in North Florida.

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Harry

Are you sure about the U-shaped house facing north?

In the northern hemisphere, it would be advisable to face it south so that you can block northerly winds, get the maximum exposure from the sun (while sunbathing next to the pool) and block the hot afternoon sun.

Maybe you are close enough to the equator that it really does not matter which direction it faces?

Only in the land down-under is a north-facing house preferable and energy efficient.

Just my thoughts, good luck.

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kahili

David, I am also curious about the house opening to the north. Doesn't it open that area up to the northern cold winds that come sweeping in during the winter? Also the sun is so low in the sky in the winter , it will be hours longer for the sun to hit your palms in the courtyard-which might make a difference on those mornings when it was esp cold the night before. Almost all of the palms that are more tender that I have, are planted on the south/east side of the house.

What about some Arengas? I have thought about trying one here in a really protected area (and protecting during esp cold nights), so I would think it would be even better down there

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Alicehunter2000

Harry and kahili, you are both correct, It would have been much preferable to face the U south; but due to the layout and size of the lot I am forced to face it north. I wish is wasn't so. My backyard will be shaded down lower which is both positive and negative. The positive is that it is pretty scorching hot for most of the year here and the soil is superporous sand. Shade is actually a commodity at the beach. The negative is that in the 3 month winter it will take longer in the morning to heat up. Taller palms will have their crowns in the sun from early in the morning. I have a 6 foot tall fence running around the perimeter to help with the winds from the north down low.

Zeeth.....oohh I love the Beccariophoenix alfredii idea.....that is one beautiful palm.....what do others think about this one. Could it work? The sabal you mentioned was on my list early on but was subsequently scratched due to costs, uniqueness and space. Parajubaea sunka is one I will have to think about and Dypsis decipens is something I would love to try....maybe on the south side near my entrance.

kahili, Arenga engleri grows here an I have a smaller one in a pot that will be planted out along the fence line. Thinking about getting a larger one as well. Good idea as it will help with buffering against wind and keep the yard warmer.

Availability, costs, and space are limiting factors as well as what could grow here.

I'm starting to get a little nervous about the A. cohune, Ken will begin root pruning this one soon and I'm worried about the length of the fronds. I have power lines running along the backside of the property about 5 ft. or so off the back of the fence. Total yard width to the power lines is approx 25-30ft. . I really want this palm what should I do?

Edited by Alicehunter2000

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Tampa Scott

Ditch the W. robustas and go with some Livistonas.

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Alicehunter2000

http://maps.google.c...001523&t=h&z=20

The lot is pie shaped and on the right, next to the large house with screen pool on the corner of Walton Bonita Dr. Click on Map in upper right corner to see shape. Zoom out to see location in Florida.

Dang, everyone is up late or early tonight.....I thought about L. chinese but will also have L. deciphens in the center back they also grow slow here . Maybe overkill? and more expensive....what would be the reasoning for the switch they look really similar"

Edited by Alicehunter2000

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Ken Johnson

Ditch the W. robustas and go with some Livistonas.

I second that motion.

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krishnaraoji88

Some larger allagoptera facing the beach side?

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Walter John

Ditch the W. robustas and go with some Livistonas.

I second that motion.

Third..

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Stevetoad

Ditch the W. robustas and go with some Livistonas.

I second that motion.

Third..

Fourth.

How about

L.saribus

L.speciosa

ravenea madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis

Caryota urens

Trithrinax anything

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Ken Johnson

Ditch the W. robustas and go with some Livistonas.

I second that motion.

Third..

Fourth.

How about

L.saribus

I think we can get some big sarbius from fishnranch for responsible money

L.speciosa

ravenea madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis

Caryota urens

Trithrinax anything

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dalmatiansoap

More blue, more blue, def. more blue!!!

;)

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Alicehunter2000

Why the Hate?.....for Washingtonia?.....They are less expensive, grow faster, colder hardy and they got that cool hula skirt...kinda sexy.

Ken if you can get me a price on L. saribus....PM me.

Also Beccariophoenix alfredii ......can you find one? and what do you think?

A. cohune.....is it too big?....what if I keep it clipped so that it stays shaving brush style?

Allogoptera

ravenea madagascariensis

Jubaeopsis

Caryota urens

Trithrinax anything

Will check on these......remember I'm looking for overhead stuff....floorspace is at a premium......and I have an entire container garden full of smalls waiting to be put into the ground....including L. chinesis

Love blue too.....finding big blue is more of a challenge...especially with heat and humidity

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Alicehunter2000

Ken could you post some pictures....so everyone can see some of the actual plants being discussed...thanks.

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Really full garden

David, sounds like an exciting project. I have maintained a beach front garden for 10 years now.There are major challenges far beyond min.temps to consider.The salt spray can do as much damage as a frosty night. Also be prepared to water a lot more than you would in more inland garden.Sandy soils dry out very quickly.

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Palmə häl′ik

Ive got some cznins right next to ya somewhere in Crestview, FtWalton Bch area. It gets coooold up there dont it? I coulda swore they said it darn near snows.... Maybe not so bad Gulf front tho...

Anyhoot, a large A. engleri tucked in a corner would work?

- Ray.

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Palmə häl′ik

I can see a serious Livistonia collection comin on...

- Ray.

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redant

Phoenix sylvestris would be a nice addition as long as you hire someone to clean it up once in a while. It's a nasty job but a great looking palm.

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Ken Johnson

Saribus should be about the same as the Ribbons at Fishbranch. A washie may be OK.

Pictures will come soon. I am working on having the plan you sent put into several forms including one with computer generated palms added into the eye level view from behind!

The salt and water issues are being addressed. A combination of soil and mulch has been discussed as well as a special overhead spray set up with a high volume, low pressure, pump (think epiphites). A big fire hose will help too, in case a storm dumps large amounts of salt.

We hope to find some wild old Phoenix hybrids to set off the pinnate look. Anyone have one for sale?

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buccaneers37

I am one of the minority (at least on this thread it seems) that hapens to like Washingtonia. Mine is just getting tall enough that I will let the skirt form. HOWEVER, 5 could be a bit much if you are limited on room. Why not a Livistona nitida? They aren't as commonly seen (at least around here) as the decora or chinensis, it's extremely cold hardy and relatively fast growing. I think replacing two of the the robustas with two large nitidas may be the way to go.

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ErikSJI

I know someone that has Phoenix Sylvestris x Canariensis, Phoenix sylvestris x Dactylifera and Hybrid Phoenix Reclinata. I also know know of large Saribus if Fish Branch does not work out for you. Not sure if I can post there information as I am not sure if they are an IPS member.

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tank

David,

I would recommend some silver Serenoa repens as accent plants and will serve to offset all of that green (other than the C. alba and your bismark). Plant them around all of the massive plants you're getting. I would also get some rhaphis spp. This will fill in your mid level palm landscape and they really give off a tropical vibe.,

Finally, I would plant more than one Bismark if you have the space.

Have you noticed anyone else in the area growing interesting palms? I would think that you would see a Bismark or two.

Sounds fun, good luck.

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Walter John

Nobody said they don't like Washies, it's just that I think planting Livistona INSTEAD of Washies would look better. Okay how about both, there will be room won't there ?

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DoomsDave

Sure plant some washies, though they're really more desert plants.

If they grow well and you get tired of them, you can always drag out vinegar, sesame oil, hot pepper to taste and make kimchi out of them.

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redant

Saribus should be about the same as the Ribbons at Fishbranch. A washie may be OK.

Pictures will come soon. I am working on having the plan you sent put into several forms including one with computer generated palms added into the eye level view from behind!

The salt and water issues are being addressed. A combination of soil and mulch has been discussed as well as a special overhead spray set up with a high volume, low pressure, pump (think epiphites). A big fire hose will help too, in case a storm dumps large amounts of salt.

We hope to find some wild old Phoenix hybrids to set off the pinnate look. Anyone have one for sale?

I know the owner of thie one between these two royals, I talked to you about the possibility of moving it. Anyway they might be interested in selling it or trading it for something else. It's really a wonderful palm but they think it looks awkward where it is.

post-202-0-10575000-1349216517_thumb.jpg

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Mark Heath

Man i can't wait to see his place!!

Also, i have a Phoenix hybrid that has a basketball size head. I know it's small but what the heck! E-mail me David if you're interested and i can shoot you a pic.

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Ken Johnson

Man i can't wait to see his place!!

Also, i have a Phoenix hybrid that has a basketball size head. I know it's small but what the heck! E-mail me David if you're interested and i can shoot you a pic.

Will the rules let you post a picture here Mark?

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Alicehunter2000

Personally I love P. sylvestris.....pure form....not a hybrid. I will add this to my list. They grow great here.

I do like roebelini hybrids as they tend to be more cold hardy than type.

I do like Phoenix rupicola but unsure if the pure form is hardy enough, so a hybrid might be nice if it looks good.

P. canary is too big

I wouldn't mind a reclinata or hybrid but it may be too large as well

Would consider any other pure or hybrids.

Redant, pretty nice looking palm....what do you suppose it is

Dave, W. robusta grows very well here. I would want the pure form for this location, very skinny reddish and tall with deep green fronds. Wife likes them as well, always a positive.

Tank I like the really like the silver form S. repens as well. Would want the best color possible. I already have large clumps of Rhapis. Bizzys are the best, getting one big one and I have a dozen small ones in pots....don't think they will all fit.

Eric....L. saribus is on the list....just looking at pricing and size thanks for the alternate possibiity.

Buccy...L. nitida is available locally, but Ken might find a better price down there. Like it.

Scott...will be a new problem to have....salt....will rely on others on how to deal with it. I won't be right on the ocean, so maybe it won't be too bad. Will drill a well for unlimited water.

Palmaholic....E. engleri is on the list....I have a small one...may get a bigger one.

Thanks all....good stuff so far

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Alicehunter2000

Hardy List

5 S. palmetto 20-30 ft.ct (heights staggered)

1 S. causiarum (20+ ft.?)

5 W. robusta (15ft.+)

5 L. decipens (height?)

3 Mules (4' ct) -Provided By Mark Heath

1 C. alba (20' ct)

1 A. totai (10' ct)

1 S. urseana blue form (starting to trunk)

A. wrightii (6'+) multi-head

Marginal list

5 Queens (20')

1 A. cohune (28' oa)

1 Bizmarkia (Large Pot)

1 G. crispa (16' oa)

Wish List possibilities:

L. saribus

L. nitida

P. sylvestris pure form (10' plus ct)

S. reopens ultra silver form

A. engleri

Beccariophoenix alfredii

Dypsis deciphens

anything else cool

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Mark Heath

Man i can't wait to see his place!!

Also, i have a Phoenix hybrid that has a basketball size head. I know it's small but what the heck! E-mail me David if you're interested and i can shoot you a pic.

Will the rules let you post a picture here Mark?

Hey Ken,

I have allways been able to post a pic before and i am an IPS member. I don't see an attachment bar like before, so i have'nt figured out how to do it yet.

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Mark Heath

I also have a pure form P.Sylvestris w/ 10ft ct and a nice L.Saribus w/ about 3-4ft of wood but i am maxed out w/ weight and would have to drive them up later.

David, I can send pics of them if you want, e-mail me and let me know.

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Alicehunter2000

Hey Mark thanks...sent you a PM.......I'm pretty much maxing out on both price and number of large palms for my small lot. Ken, excited about you coming up with a site plan using these species. Thanks for everyones input, may have to cut some things or replace some species with different species...but at least it is a good start on the large foundation stuff. I took most everyones advise and have cut 2 of the 5 Washies and replaced with L. nitida and L. saribus.

The other wish list stuff is still on the wish list....may can somewhere else for these palms.

Ken, you found another more manageble S. causiarim yet?

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buccaneers37

Man i can't wait to see his place!!

Also, i have a Phoenix hybrid that has a basketball size head. I know it's small but what the heck! E-mail me David if you're interested and i can shoot you a pic.

Will the rules let you post a picture here Mark?

Hey Ken,

I have allways been able to post a pic before and i am an IPS member. I don't see an attachment bar like before, so i have'nt figured out how to do it yet.

Mark,

You should have a light blue More Reply Options button right next to your Post button in the lower right. If you click on this, the screen it takes you to will have an Attach Files, Choose Files button next to a paper clip in the lower left. At least this is what it looks loke on both mine & my friend's computers.

Wayne

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buccaneers37

David,

I will give you my experience with Beccariophoenix alfredii. I have two. I actually looked at them really well this morning and the one is larger than I though, it is close to 5ft. overall. they are on either side of a brick path in my back yard. The one gets slightly more sun & the bed that it is planted in was amended with some good soil & additives I got from Home Dept (This is where my herb garden is). It is almost twice as big as the other one (they were both of identical size when I planted them). The smaller one is planted next to a privacy fence, so it gets shaded for a couple of hours. Also, the soil was never amended on this side. They aren't exactly in the wide open, but not completely protected, either. I have had them in the ground for ALMOST 2 1/2 years. January 2011 it got down to 23 one night & 24 the next in my yard. I covered them with a light sheet to keep the frost off & the only damage they got was from an exposed frond that the wind uncovered. January 2012 saw back to back nights of 28/29 & I still covered them, because I am a wuss that doesn't want to chance it yet. Eventually I will take that gamble, just don't know when.

All this to say. DEFINATELY try this palm. I love them. I think they are pretty cold hardy, just make provisions to keep the frost off, at least until they get some size.

Wayne

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Xhoniwaters1

Hey David,

Just throwing this out there, I have a large 3 gal B alfredii I would be willing to sell if you are interested. I am on Pensacola Beach. PM me if your interested.

Tyler

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redant

The palm I posted a picture of was thought to be Phoenix rupicola / roebelini hybrid when I asked on the board.

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Alicehunter2000

Wayne, great info. thanks.

X-man...sent you a pm

Redant.....Phoenix rupicola / roebelini hybrid might be kind of tender here....will have to think about it....shoot Ken the pricing. Thanks

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