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Ken Johnson

Alicehunter2000's Beach Party by Ken Johnson

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Palmə häl′ik

a wood framed house? have you not heard the three little pigs nursery rhyme? believe it or not, there's some truth to it!

& I truly hope that guy didnt eat that blk drum! Any Florida angler would know them things get worms big time..... YUMMY!

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Alicehunter2000

Well aren't you Mr. Negative this morning....lol....I would have preferred a concrete block house but there was this little thing called money that got in the way. Block is used more extensively down in South Florida and is priced cheaper down there. The house is built in an area (within steps of the Gulf) that requires the roof to be tied down into the concrete pad and for 2X6 framework. This house is rated for 140 mph winds and is close to Miami/Dade compliant the most stringent in the country. So yes I know the 3 little pigs story....but I don't think they were building with tiedowns into their concrete every 12". It ain't cheap, that much I can tell you.

Black Drum, Sheephead, Big Grouper, Big Amberjack....and most any other very large bottom fish will have worms. You don't eat any of those?......A good chef will cut them out.

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_Keith

David, been missing you on chat lately. Drop in sometime.

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WestCoastGal

Good morning David! LOL. Enjoyed seeing the photos you posted last night. Got a much better feel for the house and lot. When our house was under construction, I always thought the concrete pad made the house footprint look small until the framing started to go up; and then addition of the drywall was another interesting perspective. It's fun seeing your dream home take shape. Are you living in the area now or driving down on weekends and such?

After seeing your backyard photos, I think you have made a great choice in adding the pool where you are and continuing with some visuals beyond it to add to the feeling of depth. 20 feet is narrow visually with nothing there. I think we have only 25 feet at our narrowest center planting bed location but once plants go in creating some foreground, midground and background placements it does make a big difference. Your pool photos will be fun to see and then I'm really anxious to see the palms go in. Have you nailed down the Tiki you were looking for?

The posters comments on the drum fish had me doing some interesting breakfast reading. I'll never look at my lox and bagel morning breakfast sandwich the same again. This was totally unknown ground for me despite hanging out with family members who fished when I was a kid. Maybe they spared me the info to prevent a young mind from being scarred....unlike what happened when I went to my grandparents farm and saw the Sunday chicken dinner running around without its head after being chopped off! City kids really do live sheltered lives in many ways.

Back to the fish comment. Saw some interesting videos and read news reports of people consuming the live worms unsuspectingly. Hate to say it but from what I read ALL fish probably has some parasite worms in it. Mostly seen in larger catches but they say the parasite larva are probably in the smaller ones. It's the the larva that could stay in your body for years, whereas the worms only last for maybe a week if eaten alive. State health agencies recommend cooking fish well enough to kill it and/or freezing the fish in commercial freezers at a certain temp for basically a week. Over and over read that home freezers don't get cold enough to do the job. Just thought I'd pass that on.

Edited by WestCoastGal

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Ken Johnson

Drum?? It gets better than that. It almost that time of year again. I caught this 104lb cobia in your back yard David a couple years back. We do it every year launch in Pensacola a start heading East.

attachicon.gifcobia 107.jpg

Now I'm really torn. How many days can i spare? Dang....I may need to bring my boat!

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LI_Pets

You know in The Villages they build a great house in an average of 55 days block or frame, so tell your builder to hire more men.

After a slab is poured 20-25 guys do all the block the next day,

day after trusses and shingles it amazing, and as someone who has built his homes years ago the quality is great.

Anyway I'll follow your thread in colder zone than mine, why queens, they die here in 9A.

,

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krishnaraoji88

You know in The Villages they build a great house in an average of 55 days block or frame, so tell your builder to hire more men.

After a slab is poured 20-25 guys do all the block the next day,

day after trusses and shingles it amazing, and as someone who has built his homes years ago the quality is great.

Anyway I'll follow your thread in colder zone than mine, why queens, they die here in 9A.

,

Queens are fine in 9a :) You just have to find the more robust forms!

-Krishna

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sonoranfans

You know in The Villages they build a great house in an average of 55 days block or frame, so tell your builder to hire more men.

After a slab is poured 20-25 guys do all the block the next day,

day after trusses and shingles it amazing, and as someone who has built his homes years ago the quality is great.

Anyway I'll follow your thread in colder zone than mine, why queens, they die here in 9A.

,

Queens are fine in 9a :) You just have to find the more robust forms!

-Krishna

yes queens should be good to 20F... Though I think I would just plant more mules instead of queens. Mules vary in their habit so more is better. they are also less susceptible to micro nutrient deficiencies and less thirsty than queens, easier to grow and keep attractive.

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krishnaraoji88

They each have their pluses, queens are plumose while mules are not. Why not plant both!

-Krishna

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sonoranfans

They each have their pluses, queens are plumose while mules are not. Why not plant both!

-Krishna

Count me as someone tired of keeping queens happy... I had 11 in my arizona house, they were beautiful, but they are the biggest fertilizer pigs this side of a copernicia... Mine were deep green and quite robust, though I did have once incidence of Mn(frizzletop) deficiency. I found the maintenance and constantly watching over them to be draining. In my current sandy soils, I expect they are almost impossible to keep happy. Also, I do have a mule that shows some plumosity, from 30 feet you might think its a queen, though the trunk base is thickening. I am fascinated by mule varieties, how about a yatay x syagrus mule???

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Alicehunter2000

Ll_Pets.....don't be fooled by my more northerly location. I am in close proximity to the Gulf which moderates my temps to what some might experience further down on the peninsula, but inland. It is true that we can get some cold winds whipping out of the north when fronts pass, but when the wind calms down and the REAL cold sets in, the warmer Gulf becomes a big factor in the temps experienced here. This winter my area did not freeze even once, I know some inland further south did have a couple of light freezes this winter.

Yes, I would have loved to build out of concrete block, however, it would have cost me 10-20K more to do so. Believe me when I say that I have pushed the envelope on what I can afford. We are in the land of pine trees here and pine lumber is used in about 80% of the construction around here.

Queens are still not overused here......yet. I realize they are fertilizer hogs and that they are hard to keep looking good, but frankly I just don't have many options as far as pinnate palmage goes. We are in a sea of Butia here. I counted over 300 Butia driving for work in just 1 day! I really like mules but they do have a tendency to look like Butia instead of the Queen parentage. Mark Heath, who is supplying my big mules, has found me some that have a more plumose leaf.

My current list of palms to be installed on April 6th is as follows:


3- W. robusta 25' oa
2- S. romanzoffiana 20'oa
3- L. decora 20' oa
1- L. nitida 18' oa
1- L. saribus 14' oa
1- P. sylvestris x canary 10'ct
1- A. wrightii 8'
1- S.causiarum 6'ct
1- C. alba 8' oa


1- S. uresana (trunking)
1- C. alba 25' oa
1- C. radicalis 6' oa
1- Bizmarkia 6' oa ?
1- B. recurvata
1- D. cabadae
1- C. macrocarpa


1- X B. nabonnandii 3' ct
1- X B. nabonnandii 4' ct
1- X B. nabonnandii 8' ct



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LI_Pets

What they say here is the in a freeze 25-27 degrees the inner core freezes on a queen (and they rot) and in about two years they can literally fall down, saw pics of some here and the Fl Univ plant extension folks are always hammering away at folks not to buy them here.

But because they are cheap they keep buying them, the landscapers here don't care.

If I wanted to get inexpensive palms I would get Sabals rather than Queens and err on the safe side.

----

the block homes here are 12K more fore same model over frame.

But the way we looked at they both have windows and wood roofs that can go in hurricane or tornado, save 12K call the insurance Co afterwards.

Just get out ahead it can all be replaced.

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krishnaraoji88

What they say here is the in a freeze 25-27 degrees the inner core freezes on a queen (and they rot) and in about two years they can literally fall down, saw pics of some here and the Fl Univ plant extension folks are always hammering away at folks not to buy them here.

But because they are cheap they keep buying them, the landscapers here don't care.

If I wanted to get inexpensive palms I would get Sabals rather than Queens and err on the safe side.

----

the block homes here are 12K more fore same model over frame.

But the way we looked at they both have windows and wood roofs that can go in hurricane or tornado, save 12K call the insurance Co afterwards.

Just get out ahead it can all be replaced.

I can tell you that is flat out not true.

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LI_Pets

I read mid 20's myself at best, our area had 2 periods of 23 D, and folks here say the queens took a big hit.

I'm only stating what I've been told, now perhaps those were not maintained correctly, I don't know.

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_Keith

What they say here is the in a freeze 25-27 degrees the inner core freezes on a queen (and they rot) and in about two years they can literally fall down, saw pics of some here and the Fl Univ plant extension folks are always hammering away at folks not to buy them here.

But because they are cheap they keep buying them, the landscapers here don't care.

If I wanted to get inexpensive palms I would get Sabals rather than Queens and err on the safe side.

----

the block homes here are 12K more fore same model over frame.

But the way we looked at they both have windows and wood roofs that can go in hurricane or tornado, save 12K call the insurance Co afterwards.

Just get out ahead it can all be replaced.

Queens in this area can handle far lower than 25 degrees, however one reason folks in Florida do not recommend them that they have weak root systems and tend to go down easily in hurricanes. Certainly you would not want to plant one next to your home within falling distance where it could hit the house. And although Mules are hybrids, it has been my experience, having 5 of them, that they certainly inherited some of the weak root nature from there queen side. Don't get me wrong, they are not as week as Queens, but neither are they the rock that Butia are. I would not plant a Mule within falling distance of my house either.

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Mark Heath

We had hurricane Charlie come through here years ago. My 30ft Mule is now leaning but stood strong. While the three pine trees were snapped a few feet from the base. All my Queens stood strong as well and we had 80mph winds w/ 100mph gust.

I didn't hurricane cut my palms but next time i will.

You will be just fine David but i would prune tall palms just before a major hurricane just to be safe.

See you on the 6th!!

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krishnaraoji88

Didn't see a single queen down after the hurricanes passed over here in '05. Lots of water oaks though.

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_Keith

It is certainly likely that queens root more deeply in Florida sands than in Louisiana heavy clay. The only experience I have directly is here. But there is also a wealth of information out there relating to Queen palm hurricane performance. And of course, not matter what there will be exceptions.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FR/FR17300.pdf

is a good reference on the subject from the University of Florida

and this quote from the guys that clean up the mess.

The Most Dangerous Palm

  • According to Florida Tree Company, the most dangerous palm trees to be hit by a hurricane are queen palm trees, which will be pulled out of the ground by a hurricane winds, their roots exposed and the trunk snapping. The company website advises to avoid planting these or to remove them altogether prior to the next hurricane season. Other dangerous trees include Australian pine, ficus, mahogany and laurel oak trees.

Read more: Information on Palm Trees in Hurricanes | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6571790_information-palm-trees-hurricanes.html#ixzz2NwUypcRq

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Mark Heath

Hello David,

You had asked a question in the Butyagrus transplanting thread.

You just might have to put that big Mule somewhere else due to the long fronds that it has and the super tall roof line that you have.

Your call.

BTW, as long as you irrigate it properly and fertilize it it will continue to grow. Heavy mulch will be needed as well but i am sure that is in your plans all ready!

The big Mule grew fast w/ little care so i am sure if you baby it the big guy will sky rocket for you.

Weren't you planning on planting a Bizmarkia on the other side? That will have a wide spread too.

I'll call you and we'll discuss the details.

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WestCoastGal

Getting really close David. Any more photos to share?

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Mark Heath

You know in The Villages they build a great house in an average of 55 days block or frame, so tell your builder to hire more men.

After a slab is poured 20-25 guys do all the block the next day,

day after trusses and shingles it amazing, and as someone who has built his homes years ago the quality is great.

Anyway I'll follow your thread in colder zone than mine, why queens, they die here in 9A.

,

Maybe small Queens, but larger ones do just fine! Do us a favor and specify what part of central Florida you're in. My queens in central Florida (east Orlando) zone 9a-9b do fantastic and they do not die! 1-3 gallon left out in the open show zero signs of damage.

Also, i want people to know that Queens are not the fertilizer hogs that people say they are. It all depends on your soil and if you give them the RIGHT fertilizer they will thrive.

I fertilize my Queens once a year MAYBE and they look fantastic!

Use a balanced fert w/ alot of water and sunlight and you are good to go!

I neglect my Queens but yet they look fantastic. I think people are using the wrong fertilizer for them.

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krishnaraoji88

Exactly Mark, when sited well in central Florida they rarely need fertilizer at all! My queens in Ocala only have cosmetic damage in the coldest years. I did lose some seedlings in the 09-10 winter but I also lost L. decora seedlings that year too if thats any indication of how cold it got.

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Ken Johnson

The count down has started!

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Alicehunter2000

Yes, getting ready....lucked out and was able to get the concrete guy to dig the holes with a backhoe for some liquor...great barter! I still have to hand groom them with a shovel. Taking off a week from work starting Wed. Ken & Son will arrive on Thur. pm. Will go over plans with Ken and eat lots of oysters on Friday. Fishbranch semi-truck, Mark Heath and friend, and crane arrive on Saturday for install 6:30 am. Got a couple of Temp. Laborers scheduled to come in and man the shovels. Hope some others from Palmtalk can make it over for the PRA.

Lots of activity going on with home construction as well. Rough-in pool concrete is complete, A/C ductwork this week, electric install this week, roof ordering this week.....so the next pictures you see will show alot that has been completed.

Mark, change of plans with the big mule....will place it in back in a prime location....will place the thinner trunked, more coconut looking smaller mule in the front. Since it is much smaller, I would like to angle it and get a nice curve lower down on the trunk. This will match the smaller Bizmarkia on the other side and will allow both of them to grow up together.....Exciting times!

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Mark Heath

Sounds good David.

The 3ft ct Mule is the thinner trunked specimen. The 4ft one is a fat momma as well as the big boy.

Personally i would place the big boy as close to the pool as i could so you get the "coconut" look while you are swimming in your pool. Within view at least.

Getting close!! Like Ken said, the countdown has begun!

I booked a room at the Sun-N-Sands motel, that is the one you were driving past, David.

Don will be there too! This is gonna be cool!

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NApalm

This is such a great thread. How good is it going to be sitting around with an icy ale with your new house and instant palmy backyard! Cant wait for the finished pics! Suprised at just how sandy your 'soil' is.

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sonoranfans

This is going to be a great planting party. Wish I could see it in person, but I will definitely enjoy the pics. Make sure you take plenty of pics david!

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Ken Johnson

I start loading tomorrow! I have 4 clients to drop off palms to on the way. I will post a picture or two as I load!

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Ken Johnson

I am about to start the last leg now. It is 3:30 AM!

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WestCoastGal

The anticipation is building! I keep looking for updated pics. Have a great weekend David and hope all of you guys in the planting party have a wonderful time down there. Would love to dig my toes in the sand and see all these palms go in the ground.

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Alicehunter2000

Thanks everyone for your comments....Thursday was really stormy across Florida, "tornado weather"...Ken had a rough time coming up and decided to spend the night in central Florida. This gave me the chance to dig the holes properly. The backhoe work got most of the sand out, but it still took me 4 hours of steady digging to manicure them to an acceptable level.

Ken made it in this morning at around 10am and I met him near the jobsite after getting a 60lb bag of oysters and a case of beer. :rolleyes: very necessary ingredients for any proper install....Anyway after meeting Ken and his son Conrad in person we went to the property....everything looked good...talked about plant placement and some of the mechanincs of the install. Went back to my rental house and Ken crashed...after beer and oyster tasting. Me and Conrad went to store and bought lumbar for bracing some of the tall palms.........on a side note...1 Washie had to be scrapped due to no more space on the tractor trailer coming from Fishbranch....Kristie worked with me and we decided to replace it with Keith's Copernecia alba.....we made it back in time for Ken to take a power nap.

The wife and I cooked T-bone steaks for an early dinner and then we went out for a few cocktails with Ken's sister and her husband at a nearby restaurant.....she lives in Panama City (nearby). We went by the property and the huge crane is already waiting........Don called me tonight and confirmed his attendance tomorrow. Mark and his friend are driving two trailers in tomorrow. Weather is looking good. Everybody is welcome to attend this Northern Gulf Coast PRA!

It is 9:30 pm.......and I hope I can sleep......install at 6:30 am tomorrow.......will take lots of pictures.

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Ken Johnson

That was fun! All done!

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_Keith

That was fun! All done!

Hey buddy, it ain't all done till the pictures are posted and commented on.

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Alicehunter2000

I feel beat up......will have to post tomorrow......I'm going to sleep now........looks fantastic!

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NApalm

Primed for these pics.

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Mark Heath

Okay folks!! Here are some pics! I will keep posting more as i get time. I just got home.

Here is the big boy Mule flying high.

post-518-0-58687700-1365363752_thumb.jpg

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Mark Heath

Here is my big Mule being installed.

post-518-0-23415200-1365363947_thumb.jpg

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Mark Heath

Finishing touches!

David Simms is on the right in the orange Alice cooper shirt. He wore that shirt so the palmtalk peeps would know who he is!!

post-518-0-65683600-1365364010_thumb.jpg

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Mark Heath

Oops, this is the finishing touches to it's final home!

post-518-0-12241800-1365364350_thumb.jpg

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Mark Heath

Here is a group shot of four Palmtalk peeps!

From the left to right,

David Simms (Alicehunter) aka head honcho.

Me (Mark Heath)

Don Martin (Don in Alabama)

Last but not least the infamous Mr Ken Johnson!! (he's a handsome devil isn't he?) :)

post-518-0-10227200-1365364629_thumb.jpg

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