Automatic watering

[Neofolis]

There seems to be many approaches to automatic watering, overhead sprinklers, drip systems, capilliary matting with a sump unit, I just wondered what would be best for my scenario.  I would want to water some pots outside, but mostly pots in my polytunnel, but also because I use a regular use soluble feed, I guess I would need to turn it off for a day or two each week to allow manual watering to apply the feed.  I was also hoping that in the polytunnel the watering system should help to increase humidity, which I assume sprinkler would help with more so than a capilliery matting type system.  I assume sprinklers would also reduce the air temperature, which would be useful at times and not at others.

I just wondered what everyone would recommend and why, assuming plant health is more of a priority than cost, etc.

[Matt in SD]

I prefer drip watering, but...My greenhouse has a wood frame and wood benches.  I set up overhead watering for a vacation and it worked well so I just left it on.  It was cool not having to hand water and the humidity stayed real high in there.  But after about 3 months I noticed signs of rot (and this is with redwood).  So if you want to use overhead watering, make sure your frame and benches are plastic or metal (non-corrodable metal).  

In the end I just hand water because it seems like a total pain to put a dripper in every pot.  I still use the overhead system when I'm out of town.  

The overhead watering I set up was extremely simple and effective, it took me about 90 minutes to install.  I attached 5/8" black drip line pipe with a pressure reducer to a simple battery timer hooked to the hose outlet in my greenhouse.  I ran the pipe up along the ceiling from front to back attaching with hose ties.  Then I tapped in every 4 feet or so and hung the 1/8" drip tubing from the black pipe and put rotary sprinklers on the ends (upside down).  The 1/8" pipe doesn't hang straight so I cut some 1/4" dowels to the right length and tied them to the 1/8" tubing.  It works like a charm and is cheap and easy.

Matt

[elHoagie]

Corey,

Inside my greenhouse I have overhead sprinklers on an automated timer.  Since I have hundreds of palms in small pots, it didn't make sense to try drip.  For all my larger potted palms outdoors I have automated drip lines.  I've noticed that some palms do not perform well inside my greenhouse, probably because of the overhead watering.  Pretty much anything I've tried from the tribe cocoineae (Butia, Syagrus, Jubaea, Jubaeopsis, etc.) develops bud rot after a while in there.  No big deal because I just grow these palms outdoors on the drip...

Jack

[MattyB]

Pretty much anything I've tried from the tribe cocoineae (Butia, Syagrus, Jubaea, Jubaeopsis, etc.) develops bud rot after a while in there.

Good observation Jack.  For this same reason I'm growing Copernicia, D. decipiens & Pseudophoenix outdoors too.  Although, I don't overhead water so maybe it wouldn't hurt them but I want them out baking in the sun.  As for my watering system in the greenhouse:  fill a bucket and fill a watering can.  It's gonna be some work to get a water line to this location.

[Matt in SD]

Matt,

Ouch! No hose outlet in your greenhouse!  Why is it hard?  Do you have any hose outlet anwhere that is not directly above cement?  If so, Put a T, tap into some PVC, go underground to your greenhouse and voila.   Even going under a concrete driveway is not much work with PVC.  But then again you're not a total meathead (well there was that one photo you posted...) so it must really be hard.  Bummer.

Matt

[STEVE IN SO CAL]

(MattyB @ Aug. 11 2006,16:44)

QUOTE

Pretty much anything I've tried from the tribe cocoineae (Butia, Syagrus, Jubaea, Jubaeopsis, etc.) develops bud rot after a while in there.

Good observation Jack.  For this same reason I'm growing Copernicia, D. decipiens & Pseudophoenix outdoors too.  Although, I don't overhead water so maybe it wouldn't hurt them but I want them out baking in the sun.  As for my watering system in the greenhouse:  fill a bucket and fill a watering can.  It's gonna be some work to get a water line to this location.

DOUGH !!!!

All those beautiful greenhouse pics, and no mention of the "OOPSIE" about no water...seems you'll be leaving us soon for the cactus society board... :cool:

[elHoagie]

(MattyB @ Aug. 11 2006,16:44)

QUOTE

Good observation Jack.  For this same reason I'm growing Copernicia, D. decipiens & Pseudophoenix outdoors too.  Although, I don't overhead water so maybe it wouldn't hurt them but I want them out baking in the sun.  As for my watering system in the greenhouse:  fill a bucket and fill a watering can.  It's gonna be some work to get a water line to this location.

Matt,

I did croak some D. decipiens in the greenhouse, so those are all outdoors now.  But, Copernicia and Pseudophoenix love it in my greenhouse.  The extra warmth, especially in the winter, seems to make the difference between ludicrously slow and agonizingly slow for these species.  Also, I only have 30% shade cloth on my greenhouse, so it's still pretty bright in there.  Still, I think extra warmth is more important than extra sun for these palms...

Jack

Also, I agree with the above posts.  Get a water line out to your greenhouse ASAP you meathead!

[HellJ]

(Neofolis @ Aug. 11 2006,08:27)

QUOTE

I would want to water some pots outside, but mostly pots in my polytunnel, but also because I use a regular use soluble feed, I guess I would need to turn it off for a day or two each week to allow manual watering to apply the feed.  I was also hoping that in the polytunnel the watering system should help to increase humidity, which I assume sprinkler would help with more so than a capilliery matting type system.  I assume sprinklers would also reduce the air temperature, which would be useful at times and not at others.

I use a combination of drippers, sprayers and misters for my plants. The misters are for the greenhouse, sprayers for groups of plants, and drippers for individual ones. I've got a Gardena In-Line Fertiliser Dispenser plumbed into the system which allows me to add soluable fertiliser into the water. I've split the main water feeds into 7 separate systems covering different parts of the garden, each managed by a separate controller. Everything gets switched on automatically in turn, typically in the early hours of morning apart from the greenhouse, which gets misted late morning to cool it down a bit when we have sun.

Works for me.

[MattyB]

:laugh: Dang, you guys are funny.  Had me crackin' up.

Jack, thanks for the cultural tips.  I do plan on bringing the Copernicia and Pseudophoenix into the greenhouse this winter.  I though I'd give them some sun for the summer while it's so warm.  The Pseudophoenix ekmanii has been growing in Phil's greenhouse (in a hot area) for about 5 years and is only 4 inches (10cm) tall, so I thought I'd break it into the sun....probably won't make a difference, it's just bloody slow.

To all wiseguys (especially Matt P.), I don't have a hose bib or pressurized line available to tap into for the greenhouse.  I have a lawn sprinkler line near the greenhouse but If I tapped into that I'd have to turn that line on,  run through the sprinklers to get to the greenhouse, and then I'd have water....that would be pretty meatheaded.  I'm gonna have to tap into an unused line I ran underneath my stone patio and into my raised bed.  It's going to take a little work running the line back underneath the footing of the planter and out through the yard (I don't like exposed water lines).  I'll wait until fall when my Caladiums and Canna can be cut back so I have room to work and dig.  It will be nice to have water though.  For now I'll just lug a bucket.

-MeatyBhead

[bgl]

Having a sad day here after the news about RLR, I just need to cheer myself up.  

Warning: this information is not going to be useful in any way, shape or form for anyone in SoCal, or the UK, or anywhere else for that matter!

I DO believe in automatic, overhead watering. Here at our location it kicks in every single time a raincloud passes overhead. Sometimes, that's dozens of times a day, sometimes we can go for a few days without anything at all. All in all, though, it's a great system. And so far this year, it has resulted in 92.95 inches/2360 mm. That's equivalent to 0.41 inches/10.5 mm per day of top quality water!

Whenever another palm enthusiast is visiting and it begins to rain, we just say "ah, great, the automatic sprinkler system just kicked in - ENJOY!!".

[Neofolis]

Bo your garden is a testiment to how well your system works.  Now if you can just find a way to package your Hawaiian climate and send it to me, I'm sure we can do a deal.

[bgl]

Corey,

Hmm....Hawaiian climate in England....a fascinating thought!! The entire south coast of England would look like Waikiki Beach in a few years....Pigafettas in Hyde Park...the possibilities are endless! Tourism business in Spain would surely go into a tailspin!

But actually, the secret plan is to entice and encourage palmaholics to move to Hawaii!  Which is probably the easier of the two options!

Bo-Göran

[BobbyinNY]

hmmm....

you guys are giving me some great ideas....  This year is going to be alot of work for me as I will have multiple greenhouses for my collection that has grown to gargantuan proportions...... Last winter I just watered everything by hand and when we went on vacation, I used these little bottles of Gel-water that is like a spike in the plant -works incredible - but this year I definitely need to run a hose to the greenhouses  - my only problem is how to keep the hose that's outside from freezing when the temps are below 32f....

[Neofolis]

Lots of lagging or bury the pipe.  The best long term option is definitely to run permanent water main pipework below ground and have surface points with taps above ground inside the areas that would be covered by the greenhouses.  The actual pipework is the easy bit, because water main is plastic and can be run anywhere and the fittings can also be plastic and fitted by hand.  The difficult part is lots of digging to get the pipe 600mm below surface level.

[Kamipalms]

Greenhouse growing through winter is fine here, just hand watering as required but summer on the other hand is a problem.

I have overhead sprinklers , misters, and a evaporative cooler, all run by timers/sensors trying to controll the heat and this is all with the greenhouse completly open. My little greenhouse is about 70% ventilated through summer.

Outdoor growing ( pots) is taken care of by an auto controller plus hand watering if required....thank god for ground water.

Jason.

[Neofolis]

I think I'm tempted with misters for the greenhouse with a burst timer or maybe a humidistat, if I'm feeling flush at the time of purchase.  I have two concerns with that approach, firstly that winter usage may cause air temperatures to be lower than I would like or the heating bill to be higher than I would like, secondly I would like to incorporate feed into the solution.  Ryan ("Palmarum") did suggest a few solutions to introducing feed into the system, but I'm yet to look into the options.

I assume misting will increase humidity and decrease temperature allowing a less frequent watering regime, rather than replacing it.  If that is the case, then I'm not too concerned about getting feed into the system.  I would, ideally, want to get to a situation where I could happily leave everything for a couple of weeks in summer without any concern of pots drying out and I'm not sure if misting alone would be sufficient for that period.

[BobbyinNY]

I would, ideally, want to get to a situation where I could happily leave everything for a couple of weeks in summer without any concern of pots drying out and I'm not sure if misting alone would be sufficient for that period.

Corey,

Why do you need to have the greenhouse in the summer?... Don't you take the polytunnel down in the summer months?

[Neofolis]

No I leave it up all year and even have the heater on, although the thermostat reduces it to just the pilot on sunny days.  Tonight for example, our forecast temperature is 9°C/48°F and I have things in there that, although would survive that happily, they certainly wouldn't consider it growing season temperature.  As most of the plants in there are very small/young I'm not going to take any chances.  When they are bigger, I will expose them to the elements during the summer months.

[BobbyinNY]

No I leave it up all year and even have the heater on, although the thermostat reduces it to just the pilot on sunny days.  Tonight for example, our forecast temperature is 9°C/48°F and I have things in there that, although would survive that happily, they certainly wouldn't consider it growing season temperature.  As most of the plants in there are very small/young I'm not going to take any chances.  When they are bigger, I will expose them to the elements during the summer months.

Ouch... 48f in August... I didn't realize it got that cold there in the summer months....

How is the gas heater working?... Do you find it to be more economical than Electricity? I wanna use one this year for my greenhouse..... Do you have it wired to the Natural Gas line? or is it a propane tank?

[Neofolis]

It actually went down to 8°C/46°F, but that was the coldest since early July.  If you check my signature, you'll see the average low is only 11°C/52°F.

The heater is great, much cheaper than electricity.  The good thing about having been a plumber at the time, is that I could run a natural gas line out to the heater.  Propane is very over priced and would have actually cost a fair bit more than electricity.  My only complaints with the heater are that the thermostat is slow to react, which is mainly because I went for a mechanical stat rather than spending the extra for an electric stat.  I didn't want to rely on a constant supply of two fuel sources.  The other thing is I was hoping I could set the thermostat higher.  I dare say a gas engineer could adjust the stat, but there are times when although it is turned up full, it is burning quite low due to the ambient temperature and not increasing the temperature quite as much as I would like.

[BobbyinNY]

The heater is great, much cheaper than electricity.  The good thing about having been a plumber at the time, is that I could run a natural gas line out to the heater.  Propane is very over priced and would have actually cost a fair bit more than electricity.  My only complaints with the heater are that the thermostat is slow to react, which is mainly because I went for a mechanical stat rather than spending the extra for an electric stat.  I didn't want to rely on a constant supply of two fuel sources.  The other thing is I was hoping I could set the thermostat higher.  I dare say a gas engineer could adjust the stat, but there are times when although it is turned up full, it is burning quite low due to the ambient temperature and not increasing the temperature quite as much as I would like.

Corey,

that's very interesting.... I actually have a natural gas line that I use for my Barbeque....Maybe that would just hook up to a gas heater that I could buy.... Do you need to vent the heater or do you keep all the vents closed?

[Neofolis]

Fortunately I bought a heater that doesn't require an outlet vent.  The only emissions are water and co², although it does need a good oxygen supply to ensure the gas burns properly, otherwise it would also emit unburnt natural gas.  I have a piece of 6" x 4" (150x100mm) rigid, rectangular ducting running from outside to the base of the heater, which is more than sufficient.

[BobbyinNY]

Fortunately I bought a heater that doesn't require an outlet vent.  The only emissions are water and co², although it does need a good oxygen supply to ensure the gas burns properly, otherwise it would also emit unburnt natural gas.  I have a piece of 6" x 4" (150x100mm) rigid, rectangular ducting running from outside to the base of the heater, which is more than sufficient.

I have to look into that, because, as of right now.... I'm back to using Electricity again this year.... and that was expensive last year...and this year I have to set up yet Another greenhouse becuase I've collected way too many plants..ugggh