Bag method question

[Logolight]

I have a question about the bag method.  After researching various web sites, I planted some Queen Palm seeds about a month ago using this method.   However, I began to second quess my judgment about how I actually planted them in the bags.  I planted four seeds to each sandwitch sized bag but the bags are laying flat, meaning there's no room for upward growth for the seeds when they germinate.  I then planted new seeds with the bags upright.

So my question is first, can or should the bags be laying flat, and if not, is it a good idea or not to try and re-sow the seeds properly without disrupting or damaging them after  already being sown?

Thanks.

The Logolight

[Tad]

i would think you only want them in the bag long enough for them to spike(stick out that first little tip) then gently remove them and plant the?!?!

I hardly ever use the baggie method but when i do that is how i do it!!

I like to get them secure in a cone or pot right away to maximize root growth in a stable area.

hope this helps, just because it works for me does not mean i am right or that it is the only way!!

[bgl]

That's why I don't like the baggie method! I use plastic containers (different sizes, depending on how many seeds I may have). Here's a container with Euterpe edulis seedlings.

The advantage with this method is that you can use the appropriate container for whatever species you're germinating. If you know the seedling is going to have vigorous roots, get a deep container. For most seedlings, the one shown below works fine. What I like about this method is that you can spread out the medium evenly, then push down the seeds JUST below the surface. The medium should be moist, but not completely soaked. Put on the cover and put the container in a warm place. Check it every now and then (usually it'll take a couple of months before you'll see anything sticking up). When the seedlings are beginning to push against the cover, time to take off the cover, and then leave the container like that for a few months. Until the seedlings are tall enough to be individually planted - up to you. This is the most critical time, because the medium/soil will dry out, and needs to be watered every now and then. Since I like to re-use the containers I don't have any drainage holes so it's important to give them just enough water to keep them happy (i.e. do not over-water).

And about the seeds you put in the baggies a month ago. If you were to switch to this method, you should be able to carefully retrieve the seeds and move them to their new home, without problems.

[Kathryn]

I don't use the bag method any more either - too much attention needed to ensure seeds were removed at the appropriate time. I used the method Bo described and sometime use a heat mat. A lot of the time, I just put the seeds in a community pot outside and let nature take its course – with a little water from me every now and then.

Kathryn

[Kris]

I wish to thank members for discussing the germination teq for various palm species.as this will certainly help people who wish to import seeds from distinct lands which has exocitic plants in their natural habitate.Eg madagascar,malayasia etc..

and thanks bgl for that nice picture and even iam not a fan of the baggie method.which all nursery's bost as the best method possible for palm seeds germination ?

If other members have pictures or images of palms seed germination that is discused in this post,kindly add your expertise to this discussion.

one man one tree..

[Logolight]

Thanks for the info.  I've heard of people using the Sterilite containers so maybe I'll try that next.  I'm also trying peat pots, inside and out.  This is my first time germinating palm seeds.

[bgl]

Since Kathryn mentioned nature's method - simply putting the seeds outside in a community pot, I figured I'll show the difference. Background: received a lot of Dypsis lastelliana seeds from another Palm Society member earlier this year. I put some of them in covered plastic containers, and since I had so many seeds I decided to also germinate some of them in open trays, that I keep in our shadehouse (=when it rains, they get wet. I have done NO manual watering whatsoever). The covered containers have a soil-less medium, the open trays have a cinder-soil mix. All seeds were planted on March 10, 2006. First, the open tray. Sporadic germination, and the seedlings are still fairly small.

[bgl]

And the covered plastic container (I believe I had to remove the cover about a month and a half ago because the seedlings were beginning to push against it at that time). Very even germination, and the seedlings are of course MUCH bigger. Both photos taken today, July 23, 2006.

[Kris]

hi bgl the pictures of the germination bed i.e post no.7 and a picture of your favouriate method i.e post no 8 appears like we members are visiting your nursery. so natural and so close that we can smell the soil. Simply lovely.

but i have one question should the trays for seed germination have drain holes in the bottom or just keep it air tight in all sides ? because i usually sow my seeds in regular teracotta pots during rainy season.and baggie method i find it cumbersome,either the seeds rot or the offsprings get entangled or bent severly.

And from your photos i realise that i have to go a long way before i could reach at least 10% of your perfection.

Nice work BGL. and their are other forum members whom i wish to praise for their meticulus work in gardening,which i would do so in their respective forum post discussion...

One family one tree..

[bgl]

Hi Kris,

Thanks! And no, I don't have drainage holes in the plastic containers. I believe it's beneficial for the containers to be completely sealed, so that the humidity remains high. Also with completely sealed containers, you can simply put them away in a warm place for a couple of months, and you don't have to do anything. Leave them there, and things will automactically happen. Just don't make the medium too wet, then the seeds might rot away. Moist, but not soggy!

Bo

[MattyB]

Logolight, like Bo said, you can just carefully pull the seeds out of the baggie.  You won't hurt them if you're careful.  Usually you can just grab them and pull them out after they sprout and stick em in a pot.

[Kathryn]

Here are some pictures showing the various methods I've used.

These royal seeds were germinated via the bag method and then put in these "root trainers".

These Thrinax radiata seeds were bag germinated and then put in the same containers. This shot shows how the container can be opened to check the root growth.

The containers can be used many times and are good for palms that don’t like their roots disturbed. They are available at Wayside Gardens.

[Kathryn]

Here is a Serenoa repens that spent a little too long in a bag – I would forget to check for germinated seeds a lot.

Here is a bag of Trithrinax campestris that didn’t germinate and got tossed in the corner of the garage. I found it about a year later and there were lots of seedlings desperately wanting to be planted. Later found out that they take a while to germinate and do like the high heat I was using.

After using the bag method for a while, I tried greenhouse trays because they were less trouble - I didn’t have to watch for emerging seeds and transplant as often.

[Kathryn]

Here's another type of container I used for a while. The roots get a little disturbed when removing the seedlings.

All this required too much attention. So now, I mostly used community pots and put them outside.

[Kathryn]

When the seedlings in the community pots are ready to be potted, I use these tall tree pots from Stuewe and Sons.

These are some of the Trithrinax shown in the bag above.

[Kathryn]

Here are some of the Acrocomia seedlings from the seeds that I just threw in a flowerbed.

Here are some of the volunteer Butia seedlings from seeds that the squirrels spread for me.

And here are lots of volunteer Phoenix roebelenii seedlings – anyone who wants them is welcome to remove them!

[Kathryn]

And finally, this is an unknown seedling that came up near a C. radicalis. It is probably from a batch of seeds that got spread somehow, but I'm not sure what it is.

[bgl]

Kathryn,

Interesting to see all the different methods you've used, and your level of success! Sems like you have an ever-increasing number of healthy seedlings... What's next?

Bo

[Zac in NC]

Kathryn- That is a radicalis seedling.  Very interesting topic. I used the baggie method whenI forst started  with palms, and I no longer use it. I found it to be a bad method. I now just do community pots to start seeds.

Zac

[Kris]

(bgl @ Jul. 26 2006,22:04)

QUOTE

Kathryn,

Interesting to see all the different methods you've used, and your level of success! Sems like you have an ever-increasing number of healthy seedlings... What's next?

Bo

Dear Kathryn,

i love the pictures they are life like and each picture was a clear illustration on methods one could adopt to grow palms.it was like a tutor teaching thy students !

and you have handled the camera as pros do.only those guys know the end effect of the pictures shot_Simply lovely.

And i hope other members who will shots pictures from now on will keep your pictures as standards to meet.

And as for Bo Goran's comment i fully agree.you are lucky kathryn since all methods works like charm.

And dear Zac ,for me too only the community method and the natural method only seems to work !

Love U all.

[Logolight]

Thanks for those shots.  The question is what is the best medium to plant the seedlings?  At the moment I'm using Perfect Mix all purpose potting soil.  At first I was using the same Peat/perlite mix from the germination but then I figured there wasn't much nutritional value so I replanted the seedlings into the Perfect Mix soil.

[bgl]

David,

Regarding the medium, you ask ten people and you're likely to get ten different answers. In other words, there's no right and wrong, and whatever I'm using here in Hawaii isn't even available at your location, so won't bother going into that. Find a medium that's well draining, but still holds some moisture. You don't want soggy soil for your seedlings.

Bo-Göran

PS. Just noticed you're flying CRJs out of PHL. I've been in commercial aviation all my life. Send me a PM if you like.

[Darold Petty]

David,

 You don't need nutrition in the germination medium.  The embryonic plants digest the endosperm to build the first leaves.  I use 2/3 perlite and 1/3 peat moss.  This can be difficult to wet the bone dry peat.  Use a surfactant, (or just a tiny amount of dish detergent)  After the initial wetting, be careful that the medium is not too wet.  Water less frequently  than you might,  the medium should be just damp.  If you get fungus gnats, your medium is too wet. (plus the seeds might rot)

[Darold Petty]

Sorry David,

 I'm a  bit of a hurry and didn't read your post carefully.  I think any good potting soil is fine, so long as it's free-draining.  I like to use fish emulsion as fertilizer for tender seedlings, rather than synthetic salts.

[MattyB]

Kathryn, I agree with Zac that the volunteer near your C. radicalis is it's baby.....C. radicalis.

[Kathryn]

Thanks for the id Matt and Zac. I was worried that it might be something that wasn't cold hardy. I will leave it where it is since it seems very happy.

Kathryn

[Kris]

Dear Friends  

my baggie method pic,the ziplock bags are

placed in full sunshine,but covered by igloo or

thermokol box having small perforation for

mild climate changes from within..

and the soil is nothing more than medium

wet coir dust.

Love,

Kris(India).

[chris.oz]

I am with Bo on this, I used bags at first,   I put them upright, then I moved to tupperare type containers.   Cheap ones form the supermarket.

CHRIS