Outdoor Watering

[ericstevens73]

In response to the previous thread re: watering in a greenhouse, what about outside?  Obviously rain comes fronm the sky and drenches the entire plant, crown and all.  But with municapailties adding all the chemical garbage to their water is this the best thing, to water with sprinkler systems that drench the crowns of smaller palms.  I ask this question only after losing 6 palms and 3 cycads in the last 6 weeks, a canary, 4 A. Cunninghamiana, and a L. Decipiens to crown rot due to a watering regimin that put water over the tops of all the above.  Regular sprinklers have done damage for me - anyone else with a similar problem?  I have since in the last couple of weeks changed my watering program to utilize drip systems in the beds where the palms/cycads are growing.  My soil needs some adjusting too but that is for another thread.  

Eric

[cryptobionic]

Shame about your loss. Are you sure it's the chemicals in the water? Having a few years experience of landscaping in Califorinia, I would guess the culprit would be drenching plants when the air temperature is under 78 degrees. With some good draining soil, drip irrigation might solve your problems.

(Over here I'm a big advocate of wetting foilage and trunks of palms and never had an instance of rot, but growing in Cali is a LOT different than in Florida.)

[ericstevens73]

Actually I'm purely guessing as I don't quite know the culprit to the rot problems I am having.  I just know that the larger plants without water near the crowns are doing fine...  I'm wondering if the chemicles could have something to do with it.  Additionally, no the temps here in the summer only in the late evening/early morning dip into the high 60's low 70's but mostly are in the 80/90/100 range.  Although I guess I am watering during the times when the temp is coolest...  

I'm hoping the dripage will be my solution?  Then again, I've also got at least 3 types, perhaps 5, of mushrooms that come up occasionally (many daries near by, perhaps just lots of fungal spores in the air).  I now keep a good deal of fungicide on hand...

Eric

[spockvr6]

(ericstevens73 @ Aug. 22 2006,14:51)

QUOTE

 Then again, I've also got at least 3 types, perhaps 5, of mushrooms that come up occasionally (many daries near by, perhaps just lots of fungal spores in the air).  

I have heard it said that this is a good sign!

I am not sure why exactly.

I also have mushrooms popping up here and there in mulched beds as well as I keep most things quite wet.

[spockvr6]

(cryptobionic @ Aug. 22 2006,03:24)

QUOTE

(Over here I'm a big advocate of wetting foilage and trunks of palms and never had an instance of rot, but growing in Cali is a LOT different than in Florida.)

I use my lawn sprinkler system to apply about 30,000 gallons of water a month to my grass/plants/palms in my small yard (roughly 6000 ft^2).   On many of the sprinkler heads I have installed tall risers with rotating heads to create more overhead irrigation and the results have been excellent.   It seems like this would most closely simulate natural rainfall.

But as noted, FL and CA might be completely different as to what works best.

[ericstevens73]

I'm so confused!!!

[BS Man about Palms]

I've read and observed a lot about this. Withe the smaller plants and "our" water, drip systems have the least casualties, but only watering in the morning and not at night would help too! (for overhead).....

Now if I could get rid of the gophers!!!

[happ]

I can't  imagine drinking water killing palms and not people      If may actually be under-watering.  Was raised in Fresno/Chico and well remember the intense summer heat.  Keep in mind that over 100 people died of heat stroke in July; most from the San Joaquin valley.  I generally keep the soil moist under royal/kings/foxtail and muddy around bethel nut.

[ericstevens73]

I doubt the issue is underwatering.  I do water quite a bit, both with auto sprinklers and hose/by hand.  Ground cover/Bark in planting beds keeps top of soil moist till next watering.  But anyhow...  I guess I'll do this by trial and error.  I've apparently err'd, so now I'll try something different.  We shall see.  My wife wants some much larger plantings so I'm off to find some dug Canaries with 10+Ft of trunk...  Gotta keep her happy or the whole garden idea will die, with or without water!!!  Any one know an LESSER-expensive source for large canaries in central CA???

Eric

[BS Man about Palms]

Eric, I'd look for a big one in a 24" box and just plant it out and stand back.......or spend a MINIMUM of another $5,000.!

[ericstevens73]

BS, thats about half my budget shot on one tree.  I remember not too long ago when I could get a Canary for 300/Trnk.Ft. installed.  They are getting so much more expensive.  I may try to find some guy that has one in his yard and try to buy it/ dig it and insatall it in my yard...  Still $3500 im sure for the cost of the tree, crane, tree spade, and to refill the hole, etc...  But the wife wants some mature landscape trees...  And, I want palms!  I suppose we could match our front yard and install an olive tree or two.  But this will not go with the Jacaranda, and other palms in the back yard.  I too, think small is good, but if I could get a few 4 footers, even a Dactilifera thrown in for good measure, or a larger reclinata...  For under 10K???  My wife might let me finish the yard.  I just want to make sure I dont KILL whatever I am able to get in the ground.  Or maybe I'll just leave it be for now, and let what I have, grow...  Yeah right!!!

Eric

[ericstevens73]

One more thing about GOPHERS...  We had a problem with them when our neighbors began building their home.  Made a mess of our front and back yard.  I tried everything known to man, traps, BB gun, bombs, gas, Poison pellets, etc...  Then I hired a guy, kind of a gopher killing mercenary...  He guaranteed his work, and for 60 bucks got rid of my problem - Ross Perot would be proud.  Well, thats my 2 cents anyhow!!!

[str]

Hi Eric, still have problems with your plants ?

[Patrick]

hey there!

I live up in the bay area, where it's sunny & hot. We had that hundred-plus stuff here, too. I also am having a heckuva time with the bud rot. But, get this, I AM using a drip irrigation system! I've been fighting/treating like six plants that have the bud rot, and I've additionally lost two.

What I've come to a conclusion with is that I'm just watering far too much in general- so that's what's causing the bud/ root rot.

It seems that all of my palms took a bit of a beating in that heat wave that we had. This infection seems to be a result of this heat wave- stress- the younger plants all seem to be picking this up. It's really a shame. It's showed me that I really have to pay attention to what's goung on in my yard. I've been treating the palms wit ha copper fungicide which seems to be helping, but it only really works if you catch it early- I can give you the name of this if you like. I've also got the shrooms growing here & there as well.....

Anyways, it's just my observations, maybe I'm totally off, but hopefully not ::

Tell me more, perhaps we can compare notes & figure some things out about how to keep these things alive-- What's your dirt like & how wet is it? When did the problems first show up??

Do you have any questions so that maybe we can compare our yards? Thanks!

Pat

[Patrick]

Unfortunately I don't really know THE best way to treat this stuff....

[ericstevens73]

Well the question was asked if I am still having problems???  Yes and no.  I converted to a drip system on many of my plants.  The Livistona decipiens is actually growing a new frond...  It's amazing actually.  I treated it 3 times with different fungicides.  The new frond (actually fronds, as there are 2) is comming up quickly, about 1/4 inch a day for about 5 days now...  I'm just shocked.  As for the canary - not such a delightful story.  It is gone.  Actually, I figured out what the deal was with that one, and probably the Livistona as well.

I was doing yard work saturday and decided just to have a tug at what was left of the top of the canary...  May I say, it was ugly!!!  I took a half hearted tug, and out it came, the heart of a once healthy vibrant palm.  It was about 4 inches in diameter, and gooey and smelled of death.  Just nasty!!!  After that I was just sick so I began to hack at the roots to get rid of the thing.  What a horrid smell.  Flys, thousands, came out of nowhere and just engulfed the dug area, so I abandoned my mission.  So the story goes - Bad rain, dry spell, dying fronds leads to a deep watering and subsequent additional watering, all the while not realizing the neighbor is watering his beds (adjacent to mine) twice a day.  The bed is the lowest place in the yard, and I just drowned the palm...  Just took a long while to figure it out!!!  The sago right next to it is fine though???  Go figure.

As for the Livistona...  I went back to the nursery that I bought it from.  They overhead water daily with a very high sprinkler (15ft high).  Even in winter.  He had 2 others recovering from the same sort of rot.  I just bought mine at the wrong time...  I brought it home and the rain kept on comming.  It was a problem of cool/heat/wet.  Both in the crown and roots.  Hopefully it will continue to heal...  As for the rest of my problems (other than my mental issues which may require a whole nother web-site), I believe it to be, just too much water and at the wrong times, in the wrong places!  Expensive lesson...  But, lesson learned!  I will know from now on what signs to be watching for.

Thanks all for your assistance, but sometimes education through experience is very valuable in its own right.

Eric

[str]

Eric, I might get slammed by the experts here but here it goes. This has taken a big change for my Royal's and King's I'am using 1 ounce of 3% hydrogen peroxide  to each quart of water for my plants, they love the extra oxygen and a spray on the leaves are very well received! I did the research first , tested on smaller plants they love it . I will do this once a week  no complaints from my plants. Check out  Hydrogen peroxide and plants on a google search! You won't be disappointed!

[Patrick]

hey eric, Which fungicides did you use?

thanks for the peroxide bit, will be checking it out....

[ericstevens73]

Lilly Miller - Microcop - Copper based fungicide.  

Got it at Home Depot...  Actually they were discounted 75% off so I got 2 things of it, paid about $3.00 per bottle of powder.  You mix it with water, spray (or pour as I did) and wallah, Fungus is dead!!!  Well maybe its not that easy, of course I don't really know all the scientific stuff happening under it all, but it has seemed to help when nothing else has.  Plus I hear alot about copper based fingicides on this and other sites, so I guess it's the way to go.

Well, again this gardening thing is all pretty new to me...  2 years 3 months since I've owned my home.  So I'm sure I will continue to learn and watch things grow, and die.  This is almost as expensive as my old motorcycle habit.  More rewarding though.

Eric

[ericstevens73]

The other 2 fungicides - I forgot the names.  They were premixed in spray bottles, and I got both at Home Depot and Lowes in the pest control section.  One was for fungus, whiteflies and mites...  The other was strictly a fungicide.

Eric