Palm Seeds Germination Teq

[Kris]

Dear friends,

I like to initiate a discussion on how to germinate Exocitic palm from seeds purchased Online.

I request able members with considerable experience and success in acheving high rate of seed germination to contribute..

So as it would encourage new members and palm lovers to easily grow them at their home.

Please classify in the following method _

Palm variety name_germination period_Temperature Needed & stratification if needed,etc

Kindly join this discussion,so as to benifit all our members.

One Man One Tree..

Love,

Kris Achar (Kris to my friends).

[eastern.nurseries]

Excellent topic Kris, Thanks for posting

[Kris]

Dear Jon  

thanks for bumping this thread ! kindly look at the date when that thread was started.till toady nobody just bothered to

key in their ideas,suggestions or even comments here..

this is a strange world we live in,and we must learn to live in it.

till today i do not know how many threads have been started seperately and they vanish with time.but i wanted to club all the methods used for different palms under one header or title,so as it would help all the newcomers and those who wants to try some special or difficult varities.

but i could not gather support in this endavour....but the result was i started posting the methods that i use here in my place...and what i learnt was how difficult it is to grow

plants from seeds and to make make them big specimens and then sell it to coustomers,how are least bothered what went into it(amount of pains put in by nursery guys).for the very first time i started admiring the job of a farmer(villager) and those who maintain plantations etc...

So i must say what started to help other indeed & invariable it showed me a new world & a clearer perserpitive of this world.

I love nature and love people who love nature...should i say anything more !

And here is a link that i did it "MY WAY" !

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboar...f=1;t=4608;st=0

the above link has been posted here because i do not want

people to be sorry they had nothing to see or learn in this

perticular post !

And by the way i must also share a secreat that after starting this thread...iam receiving number of seeds & germinated saplings from round the world.and i do not have time now to live my life as before.since pots & baggies are just filling-up my house.mind you all my favouriate varities that was in my wish list is over.and i must say with all due respects to our members that i received lots of seeds from so many people whom i did not know a year back.

And i humbly bow in respect for those people who had taken keen intreast that i must posses the best..Thanks !

And whenever i get P.M i often refuse to accept these gifts

because i do not have the time & Space to germinate them and to ground them in my already cramped up garden.

So a big thank you to you all....& to Jon for the walk down the memory lane & for all the encouragement that i received till today.

And lots of love to you all,

Kris  

[Kris]

Rhapidophyllum hystrix - How to germinate ?

I have a Rhapidophyllum that does a sex change from year to year. Generally it's a male plant but sometimes it will have both sexes on the same inflorescence. I noticed this year it's produced a nice seed crop. They usually ripen for me about this time of the year, and you can tell when their ripe by the putrid odor of the fruit. They smell like something I can't mention here and the fruit is soft to the touch.

I learned years ago that the seeds should be chilled for about 2 months to get good germination. After cleaning the seeds and letting them dry for a few days I put them in moist sand and put them in the refigerator for 2 months. I did an experiment by chilling part of the seeds and the other were not chilled. Almost all of the chilled seeds germinated (with bottom heat) in about 2 months, while the untreated seeds took over a year and I got very poor germination on that group. If you try to collect seeds, be carefull with the sharp needles around the trunk. I use an instrument to collect the seeds which are hard to reach and embeded in the needles.

I don't know why more people don't have Rhapidophyllum in their palm collections, as a well grown one is a beautiful palm. They do require a lot of summer heat to grow, but it's probably the most cold hardy palm on earth. In California they look best if given broken shade or at least shade during the mid day heat. Given shade they will have a nice dark green color, but to much sun will yellow the fronds. They also like a wind protected enviroment.

I have a large one with 5 or 6 heads that gets shaded mid day by a CIDP which seems to be just the right amount of shade. Even with the cold weather we have had recently, I noticed each crown is opening up a new frond, but that could be caused by the rains we've had too.

Dick

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[Kris]

Mapu germination - need some tips for germinating Licuala Mattenensis seeds !

They are sporadic in germinating-- sometimes you get lucky and they pop in 2 months but unfortunately most take a LOOONNNGGG time to germinate -- as in 8 months or more. The books say that for Licualas they germinate even after 3 years from sowing.

I guess you should use germinating that won't break down even after a years in the bag/box and retains the proper moisture level well. Over here I use coco peat and its ok so far but I have been told that it tends to break down and turn mushy after a while so I have to watch out for that. Also I noticed that a white web like growth developes in the box- which I assume is fungal growth so I have to watch out for that too.

For long term germinators I have experimented with "dusting" seeds with powdered fungicide just as a precaution. Actually I mix Dithane ( a locally available powder form fungicide) in water and roll seeds in so tha they only get a very thin coat of the powder before I put them in the germination box / bag.

Like Piouspalms said don't keep track of teh time--that's the most agonizing part.

Good luck

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[Kris]

Germinating Lepidorrachis mooreana seeds - Any suggestions ?

I've got some Lepidorrachis seeds on the way in the mail and was wondering if anyone has had good success germinating this species and if you could share your experience?

I purchased some Lepidorrachis seeds couple years back and it died on me shortly after the initial spike. However, I heard people had good luck just sticking them in a bag with starter seed mix. Then walk away for a year plus. I would try to pick some up some germinated one from ortanique.

Fyi If you are try to grow these in SLO keep them in a cool spot. I am very familiar with SLO. I bet they will do well in Los Osos or Morro Bay. My seedlings are thriving in the cool SF climate. Good luck!

I have germinated Lepidorrhachis three times. They rot easily; keep them just moist and do not use bottom heat. After 6 months you can expect about 30% germination. The seedlings are difficult, with a high mortality but become much more stable after two or three leaves.

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[Kris]

Hedyscepe canterburyana - seeds germination !

I bought 100 fresh seeds complete with fruit. I understand that these were shipped direct from LHI. Germination in an ice cream container on a bed of moss started within a couple of months at 10 - 20 c but continues over 2 years later. I got around 90% germination but would have got more if I had been more careful with cleaning the seed. I removed the endocarp with a knife and nicked a few seeds in the process. The seedlings are quite variable. Some small and one a double. These runts mostly died and now I am left with about 70 strong plants. Growth rates of seedlings is quite fast or at least they bulk-up quite quickly for here. We get about three leaves a year but each is much bigger than the last. Our growing conditions are pretty much optimal for this palm (unlike most other species!). For example, I recently viewed a plant with six feet of trunk and tons of seeds which had only been in-ground for 10 years from a small plant.

your observations and methods are right on the money for best results! These seeds resent greenhouse conditions, bottomheat, bagging etc, community pots or boxes in the shade with temps of 40 to 85 degrees F and your patience will be rewarded! I've got you on the top of the list bro!

I've germinated Hedyscepe seed from 3 different sources (including pogoknob) over the last 5 years; they're absolutely correct when they tell you no need to clean off the pulp - stick them in loose dirt, shade, & a little moisture and you'll get sprouts in 4-6 months

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[Kris]

Hyphaene thebaica seeds - Germination ?

Meg:

The smaller fruits that you picked up won't be viable. Put the rest in a container of water and the ones that float aren't any good either. The ones that sink will be good. Here's what you do: you can either shave off the fruit on the flat side or remove all of the fruit altogether (not an easy job). To germinate, just use the baggie method - be sure the peat moss is not too moist. Once the first roots have immerged, you can put the seed in a well draining mix (tall container is best) or just plant it in the ground (best choice). A word of caution: the roots are very fragile - if you break them you might as well throw it away. Also, you can't transplant this palm once planted. You've seen what a mature plant looks like, so that should help you determine the best place for it.

Rod

Phoenix

All Hyphaene are very easy grow from seed, perhaps the easiest of all the Borassoids along w/ close relative Bismarckia. I never clean the seeds, just set them in deep pots (citrus liners work great for first two yrs), they can sprout sporadically, some in 3 or 4 months, others from the same batch a yr later - so be patient.

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[Kris]

Jubaea - best germination method ?

I've germinated batches of these twice now. It's been pretty simple: clean off the fruit and bury them about 2" deep in potting soil, and keep moist. Germination time for me seems to run about 30 - 40 days. Heat isn't much of an issue, both times I've obtained the seeds in the fall and kept them outside.

Bret

First time i tried was with the cracking endosperm method: seeds had to remain somehow sterile because of fungi.

Second time i had around 50 seeds soaked for extremely prolonged period in water (almost 30 days!): most of the seeds germinated readily with no fungi problems.

I have so many seeds I'm not going to get in to the work that many do here but the fish coolers as the stablizer with 30/30/30 sand, perlite soil. come back in 6 months and remove seedling...than every 2 months do the same. These thing rot so keep it moist only never water much!!

No need to crack the endocarp. Just soak for about 3 days and place in peat mix with perlite added for drainage. I used small plastic cups filled with pre-moistened the soil then sealed cups in a plastic bag.

Key is not to over water. Keep the growing medium on the dry side but the humidity from the bag helps. I had even better results with the same mix in a tupperware container.

Room temperature or moderately warm temperatures (75-80F) helps. Germinates sporadically. My first out of 20 germinated after about 2-3 months. Germination is still going after receiving the seed about 8-9 months ago. So far 11 out of 20 germinated from 'old' seed.

-Keeping alive in Florida may be possible although difficult. In general, Florida has higher temperatures than Bermuda but we have similiar rainfall which I think is more important a factor to keeping these guys alive. I kept 6 seedlings outside under 50% shade. The heat of summer (regularly hit 83F-85F but never hit higher than 86F for the entire summer) didn't seem to be a problem but the over head rains seemed to cause rot in about 5 of them - although I do seem to have a problem with disease in the shadehouse so that may be a factor. So far I have 6 left. Good luck to you and let us know they do.

Cheers,

Mike F

From the hot, steamy, rainy, North Carolina coast (our summers are very much like Florida). I'm no expert but I have killed hundreds of Jubaea seeds and seedlings and even larger plants. Only the freshest seeds have ever given good results for me. For germination high temps during the day with nights in the 65-76F range works best with moist but well drained mix. NO PEAT! Use lots of Perlite. NO VERMICULITE (this stuff is the worst soil amendmant ever created). Use deep pots. Don't crack the seeds. We just have too many types of rot in our climates as opposed to dry climates. When they sprout, NO RAIN! NO OVERHEAD WATER OF ANY KIND! My seedlings always do well until we get a couple days or more of rain then crown rot sets in and nothing stops it once you break the rule of no overhead water. If you use deep pots they hardly ever need to be watered (within reason). They like it dry. They seem to require regular fungicide application, on the crown, after any extended wetting, until very large (5- 15 gallon? I have not got that far yet but a very few in the southeast have) Shade after the noon hour is helpful at least when young and probably a must for you. Mine actually grow new leaves in the 95 degree humid heat of summer if they are potted only in a very well drained, no peat mix, get only morning sun, very little overhead water, and I apply fungicide every time they get wet for over one day. The few successful southeastern ones grow in hot summer areas but in red clay soil. I should mention that the only ones of mine that have not died have never touched the ground. My growing area is sand and probably surely has nematodes. So the only successful southeastern ones are growing in red clay where supposedly there are no nematodes (I think???). Good luck! I would love to see more Jubaea take hold in the southeast.

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[Kris]

Pelagodoxa henryana - Germinated !

Did u do anything unusual to them for germination or do I just need to b patient?

Bill,

I received these seeds from a fellow member on 28th July. They are in a box (see photo) with under-heating in the form of a light bulb on a timer. Highs of around 34°C (93°F) for maybe an hour a day in the afternoon when it gets fairly steamy. The average daytime temperature maybe 30°C (86°F) and at night it doesn't fall below 20°C (68°F). A couple of times a week I mist the seeds by hand. The first one took exactly ten weeks. I just remembered I have ten - not six of these. I'll be happy if three or more sprout.

.

[Kris]

Bismarkia germination to cut through the epicarp or not ?

I wouldn't cut any up. I've germinated them before in large polystyrene boxes with pure perlite that I watered regularly. I'd check every seed every day and when I noticed a root I'd pot it up in a warm place. If you let them go too long, they can go from just shot to 200mm of root in 2 or 3 days, so you have to be quick. I've germinated Latania this way too. Bismarckia are very easy to germinate. No need to do weird experiments on them.

Best regards

Tyrone

I too wouldnt mess with cutting any up as there is really no reason...From my experience with them,germination is very fast anyway to consider cutting the endocarp with all the problems this may have...I am currently germinating Bismarckia nobilis(Silver) seeds in a tupperware container filled to more than half with coco bedding(sold for reptiles,etc at pet shops...) and have it in a position where it receives a couple of hours of morning sun for added heat...The first seeds germinated for me in just 2 weeks(2 out of 5),another one in 3weeks or a bit less and the others currently are on its 3rd week too and waiting for germination...I consider that a germination of 3 out of 5 in just 3 weeks is great for such a species and i wouldnt recomend doing anything to them,just sow them in a hot place with tempratures between 25-35C Mine were kept at 25-30C...

From my experiene with them,sowing them at a bag or tupperware is possible...For me,they didnt grow that long a root(20cm) so soon but rather something like 5cm in that many days(but i only know and could check 1 of them as another germinated without me knowing it as the radicle got under another seed and was hidden from view and only realized it when it reached the bottom...)so if checked daily it shouldnt be a problem! Maybe with warmer tempratures they can grow that fast but here temprature fell to 20-25C while growing their roots...Personally i like to plant them in their own pot after they have grown at least 5cm of root so that the time i dont know what they are doing is limited by some days...

As Jeff said,a pot of only 8" deep would be too shallow probably...I planted mine in 10g pots right from the start that are about 14" deep(or a bit more) too...

I wish you good and fast germination!!!

How are you germinating your Trachycarpus seeds ? At 1000 a time, I use plastic boxes. If they are covered at night in the greenhouse they will produce fungus spores by the morning, so I leave the lid off overnight to let the air get to them. That kind of fungus is not something I treat. In my experience it is a reaction to new seeds coming into a warm, humid environment for the first time. It will disappear if you let the air and sunlight get to them in the morning. I just roll the seeds around in the box, and put the lid back on. I'm sure the seeds build up an immunity.

I too sow exclusively in tupperware containers but keep them in my bedroom at a place that suits the temprature requirements of the seeds...I always keep them closed.Fungus,as said only appears at the beggining and only in some seeds,mostly on the ones not so well cleaned...I dont use fungicids for that,i just take the affected seeds out,wash and rub them under the tap and then put them back in,removing a bit of the soil they rested if the fungus had spread on the substrate

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[Kris]

How to germinate dictyosperma album & thrinax excelsa ?

These are both palms that are very easy to germinate. I wouldn't worry about cleaning them first. It's not worth the time and effort. Just plant them under the soil about a 1/2 " and do some community pots of them. Or, if you want to do some multi's, put 4-5 seeds into a cell pack tray and let them germinate directly in them. Keep them moist and in some shade until they have their second or third leaf.

Jeff

These links should give you all the info you need to germinate them :-

Dictyosperma album

Thrinax excelsa

Germinating most palm seeds is easy and fun!

Happy growing!!!

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[Kris]

Areca, How's it done ?

I just collected four large orange seeds from the ground under a Areca. The seeds have fruit around the outside, and then really strong fibers underneath, then finally a fairly small seed for the size of the fruit.

How should I go about cleaning the seed off? I tried with a knife, and that proved a chore(and damaged the seed slightly). Or should I just skip it and plant the entire thing, fruit and all?

I don't know if the seed pulp/fiber contains some anti-fungal or anti-bacterial properties, but when I cleaned the seeds I had tried to germinate (of several species) they almost all died of damping off or some other infection almost immediately. The ones that I left the pulp on almost all survive. This has been my experience with several different Areca species over several years. You may want to remove the outer pulp, but leave the inner fibrous sheath intact.

Just my experience...

Jason

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[Kris]

Butia paraguayensis seeds - Germination tips requested ?

I germinated some of these B. paraguayensis 4 or 5 years ago. I actually have good luck with all Butia seed and their hybrids. As with all Butia, the key is patience. I think the idea that Butia's are hard to germinate came from people (like myself) who like to check their seeds every few days expecting to get results. I have most Butia's come up anywhere from a month after planting to 4 or 5 years later with surprise sprouts coming at any time they get high heat. I soak all butia seeds for at least a week, with water changes any time the water gets discolored. I use rain or distilled water. This is important as hard water does not penetrate the seed coat nearly as well. If I forget them for over a week it does not seem to harm the seed and even two weeks or more has given ok results. I then plant them in a community pot with barely moist, very loose, well drained mix. I sometimes microwave the mix to sterilize it. This is mostly to kill weed seeds as I know they will be in that mix a long time and I don't want to weed it. Butia seeds seem almost immune to rot for me. The pot goes into a tightly closed plasic bag to keep moisture in and weed seed out. The sprouts come when the days heat the mix up to the 95F or so range for a few days and the nights cooling down a little as any hot normal day would do. Oh yea, the big tip... Butia seeds are shy so do not keep looking at them to see if they have sprouted or they won't. LOL. Best of luck and do not throw them away or they WILL sprout. LOL.

Good info for those of us that have always had problems germinating this palm... Do you sow fresh seeds or do you let them 'age' for 6 months or so??? I've heard others state that fresh seeds won't germinate... thanks in advance. Jv

I'm not sure if fresh seeds sprout or not but I suspect they don't. All my Butia seeds are kept, after collecting, some with fruit on some naturally clean from laying on the ground, in whatever I collected them in (plasic bags, old pots, etc.). Over the winter the fruit will dry up or rot off. I then have a wire cage "tumbler" with rocks inside that wears off all the old dried fruit and fibers that may remain so that I plant a nice clean seed. I think another sprouting secret may be a need for exposure to cold over winter, but I have not tested this. It certainly does not hurt. The fall before last I collected a plasic grocery bag full of weeping Butia seeds that had laid under their mother tree for long enough that the worms and bugs had cleaned the seed. When I got home I just set the bag on the ground in an out of the way place and forgot it all winter and half of last summer. Fall leaves and mulch, scooped up with the seeds, were also in the bag. When I finally thought to plant them the bag was full of sprouts and single leaf seedlings. A few were starting their 2nd leaf. The temp over winter went down to about 14 or 15F a couple of times and to the low 20's a few times. We almost never have a day that does not get above freezing and most well above that. Other Butia seeds exposed to cold over the years have also shown no harm done from that cold. I have heard some claim a dry period is needed. That may be true as some of my seed are allowed to dry after cleaning but the ones naturally laying under our local trees and even in their mother's trunk boots sprout like grass in some cases. We get ample rain here and some dry spells in summer so the seeds get exposed to varying conditions.

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[Kris]

Seeds Cleaning Method !

Here are some very useful visuals as illustrated by our member_FRITO on seeds cleaning using power tools ! And many members have tried this and have found an easy & time saving way to clean freshly collected fruits.

And here are those visuals...

All the above stills courtesy FRITO (Luke)And here is also a video

of the above illustration.

I use a presure washer.

Seeds in a five gal bucket with some holes in the bottom.

Put a lid on the top with a hole big enough to put in the nozzle of the presure wahser.

Just turn it on and rotate the head.

Works very well, just make sure the lid is on the bucket well or you will be eating palm fruit!!

[Kris]

How do I germinate Pelagodoxa ?

In my experience with germination, the seeds were supplied to me cleaned, as you can see at the bottom of this photo. It certainly won't do any harm to clean them, but that is something I've not had the option to try myself. As you can see, they are half-buried in moist compost, and the box has under-heating. Temperature range is about 75F-90F and obviously very humid. I had 5 seeds sprout in about ten weeks, but I hear they can take up to 2 years. I have 20 seeds in all. I keep mine in the box until the shoot is about 2" long and then pot them up in my greenhouse. They haven't grown much since then, but hopefully that will change in a few weeks time (roll on, Spring). I'm in a Mediterranean climate, so I have no option but to create mini-tropical environments to get some species started. My seeds came from a fellow forum member, FijiJim. He would be able to give you some good advice since he is in the tropics, and I think he cleans them himself. The only problem I have encountered so far, is damping off of two sprouted seeds, and the surface soil was barely moist. It was probably the cool temperatures this winter that did it. So yes, I would avoid top watering unless it is very warm and there's good air circulation.

Pelagodoxa henryana seed are only viable when allowed to fall and then the outer fruit needs to decay until it can be washed off. After the seed dries some the thin shell separates from the seed gradually and can be removed. I plant these at that stage or after cleaning the fruit off and there is not much difference. However they can germinate faster without the thin shell. I learnt this information from a study on Pelagodoxa in Tahiti. They will usually take at least 6 months to sprout and will still be happening at 18 months. I have always achieved close to 100% success germinating these and have had seeds starting growth up to 2 and half years from planting.

They are highly variable in germination times but I have found the ones that I have experimented with in boxes on heat-mats do germinate more evenly and much sooner.

Jim

When I first tried germinating these I had no luck with ones picked from the palm and had left some with their fruit on and some were cleaned.

After doing some internet research I found results of a French Government sponsored project to grow these in large numbers. I think that the project was in Tahiti.

Anyway their research concluded that it was best to use only seed that had fallen naturally from the palm and let the fruit sit until the outer part had softened and was able to be easily removed to leave a clean seed.

It seems to me that they may be like some Cycad seeds that are not ready to germinate when only just ripe or freshly harvested. That is to say that they need some time to finish forming inside into a viable seed.

Also I found that they will rot if temperatures are not kept rather high and constant temps of around 30C or 85 to 90F is best. The quickest time that I have had them sprout was in just a couple of months and they were in soil in bags that were in full sun and covered with black plastic and only watered one time before covering. Temperature under that plastic must have reached more than 100F during the day as most days here are about 30C or high 80's F in the shade. I never used fungicide on any except for some I tried in boxes on heat mats as they started to grow mold but still sprouted and grew OK.

These should be easy in HI as they even grow here in the shade so long as the medium does not stay saturated and they are placed close to the surface or even partly exposed.

By the way you can speed up the decay of the outer fruit of the seed by placing them in a plastic bag and allowing to ferment some as that will soften the pulp but I prefer to leave them in the shade in the weather for it to happen naturally as most that I have collected have been on the ground for some time under the palm and are already soft and mushy on the outside and easy to wash clean.

Also it is probably best to leave the thin inner shell in tact if you can as you may damage the seed by removing it.

Jim

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[Kris]

Kindly visit this useful _ Link !

Love,

Kris

[Kris]

Germinating Dypsis lastellianab :

After 9 months I doubt that they'd come up. I've had the same experience with this species and I think it has everything to do with the age of the seed, which will always be a problem with wild collected seed. To get good germination out of most Dypsis, you need to get the seed into germination medium within 4 weeks of physically removing it from the tree. When it's collected from the wild it could be collected off the ground, and who knows how long it's been sitting there for. I've found with fresh Dypsis seed you almost always get great germination almost all at once. Old seed will be sporadic or not germinate at all. Also seedlings coming from old seed can be quite weak growers. Unfortunately that is the way it is with growing rare species from seed. You get some good results and some bad ones. Small understory Dypsis species are even worse for this or even large species with small seeds, as they dry out very quickly. Small seeded species may have viability times as small as 2 weeks.

Best regards

Tyrone

Hi

I sown 100 seeds of Dypsis lastelliana in February 2008 and 60 have sprouted in two months with baggy method at 32°C(90F)

these seeds were mentioned"new"and from RPS.

jean-bernard

[Kris]

Germinating Astrocaryum :

Anyone know any tricks to prepare these seeds for sewing... I remember Kai talking about sawing them or something... I don't wanna wait 4 years for seedlings.

Which Astrocaryum are you trying to germinate? Mostly A. alatum germinates very fast and easy whithout any extra care, just put them in a baggy with some warmth. My experiences with A. vulgare is that you can wait for a couple of yaers indeed. When I tried to saw them (about 10 seeds) , whithin a week 2 seeds started to germinate. I carved the outer layer of the seeds, but not all the way through because I was affraid of the seeds rotting away. It's just making it a little easier to let the water find it's way into the seeds.

[Kris]

Attalea butyracea _Germination :

I would clean them thoroughly from all the fruit surrounding the seeds and soak them for a few days in water. Then put them half burried on top of the germinating soil in a tupperware bowl with a lid or something like that on a warm place.

Cheers,

Kai

I threw some attalea seeds, under a palm tree and just left them and they germinated better than the ones I took care of. But, then my climate is the trees natural climate, hot and humid.

dk

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[Jose Maria]

Hi Kris,

This is a very interesting topic. And necessary.

When I read about Attalea germination, something comes to my mind....

In natural conditions, I guess that Attalea fruit is eaten by wild pigs, and then wherever they take a "dump" in the forest , some seeds are ready to germinate after crossing tru the digestive tract of the animal.( The fruit is rich in fats and has a smell like butter...)

This theory was confirmed, at a friends farm with many nice Attalea rostrata palms, so many fruit fall to the ground that he picks them up for a few pigs he is fattening for Christmas......at the exit of the wash-waters from the pigs... a lot of small Attalea palms.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Jose Maria

[Kris]

Just wondering how to go about Areca Catechu germination? I've been successful with many other palm seeds using the baggie w/moistened peat method. Would these be done the same? With or without the husk?

Thanks,

Rob K.

I'm sure you'll get better results if you clean them (which is a MAJOR hassle). But they are extremely easy to germinate, so I'm sure the baggie method will be just fine if that's what you're used to. Personally, I like to germinate seeds in plastic containers, except that some of the easy ones (and my experience is that ANY Areca is an easy one) can be germinated in open trays. And this could probably also be done anywhere else in a relatively warm place in the USA (like at your location) since we're approaching summer. Seeds will germinate quickly - definitely within a couple of months.

Rob,

Bo summed it up pretty good, and can't really add anything more. If you put them just under the surface of the soil in a pot (3gallon), you should get a good germination on them. Keep the pot in a filter light area.

Jeff

Rob, a friend gave me a bag of fresh A. catechu seeds last year. They still had the fruit on them and were sitting in a bag in his car for about a week before he gave them to me. By that time the fruit had started to ferment and just about every seed had germinated!

I'm not recommending that you germinate your seeds this way, but this fermenting technique really seems to work.

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[Kris]

Germinating Medium _Is it necessary to germinate seeds in a rich dirt mixture ?

I'm no ultimate expert in germination methods and still learning here, after 7 years and some ~500 species I've tried so far. There are some great threads on germination techniques available in Palmtalk. Kris from India is one of the masters in this game and he has shown us quite detailed pictorials in this forum and he usually gets excellent results. Here are just a couple more cents on this subject...

During my early germination attempts I've used a wide range of options, from vermiculite to sphagnum, soil and sand. I believe that for my climate condition here I've had best results with pre-washed coconut fiber, or cocopeat, so I've been using it for the last years.

It seems to me that the anti bacterial and natural fungicide properties of this medium help in keeping the other germination requirements OK (aeration, humidity and temperature).

Since I've moved from the ziplock bags to closed plastic bigger containers (as I've learned from our President Bo) the resulting statistics have improved a lot.

Many experienced growers, especially in Florida, seem to prefer to sow seeds directly in soil mix, but they are lucky to be able to often have access to fresh locally harvested seed, in opposite to us mortals who usually depend on lazy mail services, sometimes long inspections and in some places careless quarantines. Freshly harvested palm seeds don't even require soakings and hydrations prior to sowing, it's usually just necessary to clean, shade dry and sow, unlike cycad seeds that sometimes need a maturing period for embryo development and sarcotesta inhibiting properties to decline. Seeds from some specific palm genera however, naturally need longer periods of time in dormant stage before their biological clock triggers the process, like Licuala, Bactris and Howea and in such way they deserve to remain in a rather sterile environment.

For some palm species, I guess the problem with pure coconut material is that we need to proceed to an early repotting with tiny seedlings because their nutrition requirements are not supplied unless their roots detect soil mixtures to establish, probably also a matter of mycorhiza (mispelled..) development.

Fresh Iriartea deltoidea sprout great in moist cocopeat. I've been lucky to have 90% germination success here recently...let's see if they can handle the transition shock into my soil mix here next week...I wish you good luck too..

.

[Kris]

Geminating phoenix rupicola ?

Soak them 24 hours in just plain old water (the daconil is not necessary if the seed is clean)

place in germination material mix of 1/3 peat (sunshine mix #3 is really good stuff) and 2/3 perlite (size #2 works well for this purpose), planting no deeper than the depth of the seed itself (about a quarter to half inch or so).

keep moist (not wet), warm (about 80F....a good place for your germination tub would be on a shelf in the rafters of your garage).

be very patient....

You dont want to soak the seeds more than 24 hours unless they are thick shelled and float. Also I never add water to the peat moss(i use cocco) Use it straght out the bag, and if it gets dry replace it dont try and add moisture. I dont know why some people say use slightly damp peat?, the seeds just rott if theres enough moisture if u ask me.

30C - 35C (85 - 95F) is a good range for most tropical palms.

I germinate most of my seeds at the lower end of that range.

Temps over 38C (100F) can damage or even kill some palm seeds I believe.....having said that, I germinated Hypheane coriacea at temps fluctuating between 10C (50F) at night and 50C (122F) during the day in an unheated greenhouse. So you have to pick your species a bit.

My P. rupicola seeds are germinating at 30C right now, but like you I've had them rot in the past.

Cheers,

Jonathan

yeah, i would say that continuous temps over 100F would not be a good thing for your seeds....so try and find a place that doesn't get much over 90F for any length of time.

.

[Kris]

Roystonea Germination ?

Zeeth, I've germinated literally THOUSANDS of these, thanks to readily available seeds in my neighborhood. Seeds were soaked for a couple of days, then the fruit removed. Easy to do, but if Mark says it doesn't seem to make a difference, then save yourself a little work. I use Sterlite containers ($1 apiece at Walmart) filled with Fafard's germination mix/perlite added. Seeds usually begin popping within a week or so. Any that don't show signs of life after six weeks-two months get tossed. You can get the mix and perlite in big bags at Southern Ag in Rubonia.

Lucinda

I don't know the best way to germinate them. But, i usually put them in a community pot cleaned and uncleaned and bingo!

I have'nt tried seperate tecniques to figure which is better.

.

[Kris]

Germinating Orania longisquama ?

I've ordered some of these seeds and want to make sure I treat them the right way. The seeds were not cheap, so to speak.

Does anybody have some tips on how to germinate these? Usually I use ziplock bags with neemcoir and put them away at around 35 degrees Celcius. But if there's a better way for these seeds, please let me know.

Thanks!

I have just one experience (bad) that might help you. I got 10 seeds of Orania sylvicola, big and round, golf-ball size. They were sown in potting soil in a 3-gal pot. Every one germinated. When the sprouts were sufficiently developed, I emptied the pot, separated the sprouts, and potted them up individually. All began to decline immediately and drastically and all died over a period of several months.

I don't know what the problem was. I didn't observe very closely, because there didn't seem to be any problem until potting up. Possibly, there were dry pockets in the potting soil, but it doesn't seem that that would affect all 10.

If I had the seeds to sow over again (sometimes in life, we do get to do things over again), I would sow them in separate pots.

.

[Kris]

Seeds going mouldy

I have in the past managed to germinate about 10% of my batches of arenga seeds but this year i bought 100 as i thought i was getting better at it. I have sowed in batcheS using various methods.

I have used fungicide after soaking and used media which has been cooked in the microwave,also i have washed with mild bleach but they have all gone mouldy.

They are prone to fungus but this is ridiculous

I seem to be going backwards as a beginner!

Any ideas please

Hi Freddy, try using Coco Peat Coir, make sure you have excellent ventilation, at all times, soak them first for a couple days, make sure to change the water every four hours, in you climate, you may have to start indoors, Ed

Yep.

Works great.

My first attempt at germination was very successful w/ around 99.9% success on around 100 or so Wodyetia bifurcata seeds... The coir drains super fast, and stays just moist enough to handle the bizness. I picked up a few bricks of the stuff, but I should've just bought the big block that they had...

~Ray.

Some seeds, no matter how many times you rinse them, bleach them or dip them in fungicide, will always develop fungus, if the seeds have already become infected and the bacteria is working from the inside. One important tip after rinsing or soaking seeds, is to let the surface dry properly, i.e. evenly - especially fibrous species, or those with an uneven surface. I have an odd way of determining if seeds are getting enough moisture, and that is to touch the seed against my top lip. You can detect the presence of moisture immediately, even if the seed appears dry.

I had a batch of Pseudophoenix ekmanii last year, which kept turning into fungus "snowballs" no matter how many times I treated them. At the point of giving up, I dipped them in 100% bleach for 30 seconds, rinsed them only lightly, let them dry, but again the same thing happened. It's all about fresh seeds. The thing to remember is that during collection, a few borderline, bad seeds are going to get mixed in. One of these may end up in your packet, and then go on to infect a few more. Aside from the float test - which is only a "rule of thumb", look out for seeds that are darker than the rest. If fungus has already attacked the endosperm, moisture will enter the seed, and the seed coat may show a dark patch. Smell each seed if possible, and put any "sweeter" ones to one side. In other words, segregate your seeds as you would imagine the final percentage for successful germination to be. That way you will know if your instincts were right. You can then concentrate on giving the suspect seeds your best attention, and if one or two in that group sprout, you will feel better for it.

Ray, you mention coir being a fast draining medium, but that is a little confusing. Coco-fibre actually retains moisture up to 8 or 9 times its own volume. It has good air porosity, so it never feels very wet on the surface. However, it holds the moisture further down in a pot, and once saturated, can easily become water-logged (a bit like a sponge sitting on the side of a wet bathtub.)

I used to use coir on its own as a germination mix, but I find it too smothering. I prefer a course mix, almost like muesli, with fine mulch, soil and vermiculite. Pure vermiculite is also good IMO, because as people who dislike using it will tell you, it turns to sticky mush if you over-water it. So naturally, don't let it get to that stage, and you have a medium with its own moisture warning device! Just my 2 cents.

How is it confusing?

It drains as fast as you pour it in.

Let me reiterate...

The water will come out as fast as it goes in... And no it's not like a sponge sitting on a wet bath tub.

I use it with a 50/50 mix of perlite with great results so far... Maybe you had some bad luck with it...

But I've used it in the past with all kinds of other plants, and they all have loved it.

Granted I've only used it for the last year with palm germination... But it's been working for me... Sounds like for others too...

I'll be sure to smell all my seeds real good before I germinate them too... That's brilliant.

~Ray.

...

[Kris]

Cont...

Well you obviously have a fine set up, Ray. But like I said, coco-fibre retains moisture up to 8 or 9 times its own volume. Mixing it with 50/50 with perlite will obviously make it free flowing. I'm English by the way, in case my avatar settings misled you.

I'm just really happy with it so far that's all... Draining and Retaining have different meanings BTW...

Just trying to spread some CoCoCoir love brother... Amen. Glory!

~Ray.

Ray. I'm also a fan of coir blocks. I mix it with regular compost, mainly to stop the soil from clumping too hard around seedling roots in pots. It certainly makes re-potting them easier, as you just tap the soil lightly, and it falls away without pulling any roots off.

And by the way the above feature was included here,since without a proper medium & Knowledge on the basic requirements...it would be a mere waste of time & money..To venture into palm seeds germination in a serious way !

Dear John thanks for sharing your knowlegde and your experiences in this field..

Love,

Kris.

[Kris]

Fungus ?

Hi all,

Most times that I try to germinate seeds they tend to get a fungus.

I've tried using fungicides but nothing seems to help. Any suggestions?

PS the white stuff in the background is perlite, I tried using this medium as an experiment to see if it would help.

You're using too much Perlite, Perlite is intended for drainage in the medium, try using coco peat coir, with 5 or 10 percent Perlite, do not over water, provide excellent ventilation, if you're soaking your seeds first, make sure you change the water every six hours min., Ed

From what i can see,the seed has sores where the endosperm is exposed at the places the fungus is...In this case,there is little you can do...Just keep it a little drier and hope the fungus doesnt progress fast and that its not in a criical for germination spot...Unless germinated under sterile conditions,such seeds require frequent checks and they are risky at all stages till you have a seedling with root and leaf...Then,you dont care too much what happens to the seed...

If there is no naked endosperm there,just keep rubing it off under the tap as it appears and after a few times,it will stop reappearing In this case,there is nothing risky about a white fungus like that and the seed can germinate safely even with it on...

I'll just add that I think your perlite is too wet. It looks fused together. It should be dry enough to flow like sand, and only moist enough to clump if you compress it into a ball.

your medium looks too wet.

Do you boil the medium to sterilize it?

I "boil and bake". Boil the medium to kill any pathogens then bake it a bit to lessen the moisture content.

When I soak seeds I add powdered fungicide to the water to coat the exterior.

From my limited experience with seeds though -- if a seed gets fungus it usually means that it was dead inside to begin with.

...

[mjff]

I have had very good luck germinating seeds by taking the little ziploc plastic bag they come in, filling it with water to soak the seeds for a few days, then draining the water, and leaving the seeds in the moist sealed bag in the hot garage (100+F during the day, 80F at night). Most seeds germinate within days to weeks this way. I have had success with Washingtonia, Arenga englari, Dypsis onilahensis, Beccariophoenix alfredii, and Trithrinax acanthicoma. Still waiting for some mule palm, Butia purpurascens, and several varieties of Trachycarpus to sprout, but most of them have only been in the bags for a week.

[Kris]

Cont..

You're using too much Perlite, Perlite is intended for drainage in the medium, try using coco peat coir, with 5 or 10 percent Perlite, do not over water, provide excellent ventilation, if you're soaking your seeds first, make sure you change the water every six hours min., Ed

For the "Boil and Bake" method I was referring to the medium that I use is coco coir dust or coco peat.

I am not sure how that method would work with perlite and other bagging media.

Thanks for all your comments and tips guys. The perlite is about 3 inches high and there is a little water settled at the bottom of the bag.

Well it could have been the seeds. I placed 3 seeds in perlite and the rest in some potting mix and even the ones in the potting mix started to develop fungus If my memory is correct the fungus appeared about 3-4 days after "potting".

Next time I will try the boil and bake technique.

.

[Kris]

Dictyocaryum lamarckianum seeds

I bought 20. 8 went into a baggy on top of the fridge, 6 went into a pot that went outside, and 6 more were sowed in a pot that I kept indoors but with no bottom heat. The only ones that have popped were the 8 on top of my fridge. These seeds had constant bottom heat and no light. Mine should be pushing their first leaf in a couple of weeks.

Hello Richard,

I don't think my seeds received temperatures in excess of 30 Celsius /86F. They sprout easily if fresh, and there's no late germination. Once they pop, that's your lot, is the impression I got. I didn't bother varying the germination technique after I read how easy they are. For as rare, and temperamental a plant as they are reputed to be, they sprout effortlessly, and neither do they become fungus magnets once they have germinated. I'd rate germinating fresh Dictyocaryum lamarckianum seeds as very easy.

John, the seeds that germinated for me are at about the same stage in growth as yours. I am keeping them in a closed container with a few holes in the top until the first leaves push out.

These are cloud forest palms. They want the humidity, but no thanks to heat. Absolute no-goes for FL. Even Fairchild can't keep them alive.

.

[Kris]

Trachycarpus takil seeds ?

A couple of weeks ago,..I put them in a baggy (freezer bag, really, as it seem to hold up better) with some damp peat moss and put them on the top of the water heater.

I looked today for the first time and, voila!

Many of them have sprouted a tap root, although it is only about 1/16th of an inch in length.

I know they can stay there for a bit longer, but what's next? Pot them? How deep? In what media? How much, if any, sun?

Thanks for the input.

In the little bit of growing I've done, I'd say, yes, give them a bit more time to establish a root system. I usually start from the beginning in pots- no baggies but in a grow box, so my advice is somewhat limited. Anyways, Mix up a 2-1 ratio peat/ pearlite mixture- or whatever ratio you like and put your baby in that. I'm gonna say just cover the top of the seedling. I think the thing to really stress is keeping things sterile. It's so frustrating to lose seedlings due to fungus. I know that others will have different advice, but there you go. If you need a little bit of either peat or pearllite, give me a buzz. I have the schtuff.

I'll have to show you my setup upstairs next time you come over. I'm gonna talk to my buddy down the street, too. He's a fan of the baggie method & he grows everything in his laundry room.

.

[Kris]

Dypsis marojejyi _ Germination experiences ?

Any idea what is difficult with them and why? How are yours going? Any germinating? What is your method temp etc.

All the seed sank except for one, out of approx 40 seeds, so they seem good.

I've got mine in tall com pots in a lot of coconut coir and a bit of potting mix mixed together which gives the mix that light and fluffy feel, yet water retentive. I've got them under grow lights in a plastic bag to seal in the moisture at approx 28-32C during the day and around 20-22C at night.

Best regards

Tyrone

It's only been 40 days, I use Coco peat coir, 10 percent Perlite, one seed per one gallon pot, out doors, under Live Oak trees, I remove every piece of debris every morning, from all 600 pots, mostly just rain water, occasional mist with the hose (well water) if they don't get rain for a few days, I'm not sure why he says they're hard to germinate, I'll bet it;s in the freshness of seeds,

.

[Zeeth]

I'm sure this is very helpful to many members trying to grow from seed, thanks for the contribution. You should have one about coconuts!

Keith

[Kris]

Some very useful & interesting information on palm seeds germination technicks,I see that John in Andalucia has contributed fentastic illustration showing how to accelerate palm seeds germination through his 2 wonderful threads...hope you all visit & be benefitted !

1) "Tickling the embryo"

2) Germinating 'old' palm seeds

.

[JT in Japan]

Bumping this thread. What a mother load of great information! This weekend I harvested about 1,000 Butia seeds, which are now soaking outside still with fruit on, as I sit inside wondering how in the heck I'm going to clean them. Then I stumble upon Kris' collection above. Hallelujah!

JT

[Kris]

Hi JT,

Here is a another useful thread on palm seeds germination...

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/4608-materials-need-for-germination

Love,

kris.

[Kris]

Sabal Steve Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:28 AM

Hello everyone,
I am new to germinating and I was hoping for any advice - on my system on general. I've had pretty good luck with a 50:50 mixture of peat moss and sand in Ziploc bags that have been sealed and kept moist. Then i put the sprouted seeds in one gallon containers and try to keep it moist. in general at this stage is it good to just keep them moist and in the dark - or should I put it in the Sun, partial Sun, or shade? So far my Canaries have began to sprout leaves above the soil but my R. Sapida palms don't seem to be doing anything...

Jubaea

I would put them both outside in the shade. Both Rhopalostylis and Canaries will do fine outside in SD and can be germinated outside. For my seedlings I keep them under 50% shade cloth and they do well. If you are further inland where it gets hot you may want to use even more shade than 50%.

KennyRE317

I germinated in plastic Tupperware containers, pretty much the same as ziplock bags, with a mix of coco, peat, and perlite (sunshine advance mix #4) and I keep the containers in my office which is always dark and warm. as soon as I get a main root that is around 1/2"-1" I pluck it out (i'll usually wait until i can pot up a batch of at least 12) and put in a small container that's about 5" deep and then they stay outside never getting any direct sun.

Sabal Steve

Any thoughts on using sand instead of perilite? Does it make a big difference?

KennyRE317

weight, size, density

Will

Every time I've used the 50/50 peat/perlite in a zip lock bag method, the seeds develop mold.

When I use straight perlite, they don't.

KennyRE317

with perlite it doesn't really hold much moisture. I use Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 since i had a couple of large bales sitting around and I've had no issues with it and it's mostly comprised of peat/coco/perlite. I've had a container that's been sitting in my office for the last few months and there's still some moisture and no mold like growth.

To read more on the above topic kindly visit this link _ Novice germinator in training...

.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Kris

[Zeeth]

Again, I'd like to thank Kris for this thread. Those who aren't new to the palm world take some knowledge for granted, such as ability to germinate seeds. Seeds are the cheapest and most fulfilling (in my opinion) way to grow palms, so threads like this are key to new growers. My method which has given me success in almost all of my palm endeavors has been first ensuring that any fruit is removed from the seed (this is the most time consuming part), then placing the seeds in a ziplock bag with moist sphagnum moss and putting this somewhere warm but shaded. If mold develops on these, I remove everything and soak in a very dilute bleach solution and place everything back in. With adjacent germinators, it's okay to plant as soon as they begin germination, but with remote germination this seems to promote damping off, as the growth point usually ends up below the soil level, so it seems best to allow the palm to grow the root long enough that you can tell where the leaves will emerge from.