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edric

Dypsis ambositrae

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richnorm

Rich, that was the collection because I have the original tag stating April 2006. Those plants I have from Pete are certainly slower. I showed you pictures offline a few times showing the size difference already. Many of these Ambo's going around I just have this gut feeling will turn out to be something else and not the real deal. But thats just my hypothesis. Do yours have slightly grouped leaflets in 2 - 5s? My two larger ones (Rancho Soledad plant and Jungle Music plant) do not, but that might just come with age. Also, I guess it could just be crazy variation like in many other Dypsis to define the differences we see. The only thing we can do is grow them and see what happens.

Reading that thread we hear Clayton and Mikey talking about how slow that plant is for them. Marcus said the same thing about those collected by Bill and Pete. Mine grew faster then Jeffs as I compared mine to his plants a while back, but that could be explained by where they come from.

Thanks for the additional info Len. I have the same intuition as you but likewise it is really just gut feeling from a gardener/collector perspective. I too have very much slower plants and these seem to be spirally inserted rather than tristichous though this may change with time. The grouping (and ramenta) takes a while to show but is very clear in my larger plants. I think it probably boils down to three taxa. One being the slick Willy lookalike which most people are growing, the second being a soft leaved decipiens which turns up now and then in seed purchased as ambo, and the third being the big plant (spirally inserted) which is the real one seen in PoM, Riffle etc.

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edric

One question for you guys, looking at Jeff's photos, http://www2.palmpedia.net/wiki/Dypsis_sp._%27bef%27 I noticed what could be a big difference between sp. kindreo, (I will refrain from referring to it as ambositrae for now), and sp. bef, the devision is more than twice, and is the devision above ground? and thought someone said the inflorescence on sp. kindereo comes out of the crown, instead of the base of the petiole, (forgot the botanical description), has anyone ever seen the species Matty, Jeff, and the others have that came in as D. sp. kindreo split more than twice, and if not why is sp. kindreo more like Steveo's white monster, than sp. bef, and if not why is the white monster considered closely related to sp. bef, thanks, Ed

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Jeff Searle

Most these Ambo's are growing into a prettier Dypsis "bef" type plant. The true Ambo's hand collected by Bill and Pete and germinated in 2006 are turning out to be a much slower growing plant then these other things.

Len I agree, these are very much like Slick Willy. One thing about some ambo seeds collected by Bill and Pete that I read in an earlier post was that they didn't actually collect the seeds themselves but rather some locals were sent out for some and came back with a motley collection. Could these be the same seeds you are talking about? If so they were not collected in the presence of Bill and Pete and may have been picked up off the ground. I will try and find the post.

cheers

Richard

Maybe you meant, Bill, Pete and Jeff? :D The three of us were traveling together. And specifically, the three of us didn't personally hand collect these seeds we brought back. They had been collected by the locals prior to our arrival and sold to us when we expressed interest in them. This was definitely Dypsis ambositrae growing in habitat,as there are no other species growing near by other than a few scattered Dypsis decipiens.

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Mandrew968

Jeff, is this palm as hard to grow as decipiens, for Floridians? I have yet to encounter anyone with this palm in the ground, that lives in our state(even though a few of us are having some luck with decipiens)...

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LJG

Most these Ambo's are growing into a prettier Dypsis "bef" type plant. The true Ambo's hand collected by Bill and Pete and germinated in 2006 are turning out to be a much slower growing plant then these other things.

Len I agree, these are very much like Slick Willy. One thing about some ambo seeds collected by Bill and Pete that I read in an earlier post was that they didn't actually collect the seeds themselves but rather some locals were sent out for some and came back with a motley collection. Could these be the same seeds you are talking about? If so they were not collected in the presence of Bill and Pete and may have been picked up off the ground. I will try and find the post.

cheers

Richard

Maybe you meant, Bill, Pete and Jeff? :D The three of us were traveling together. And specifically, the three of us didn't personally hand collect these seeds we brought back. They had been collected by the locals prior to our arrival and sold to us when we expressed interest in them. This was definitely Dypsis ambositrae growing in habitat,as there are no other species growing near by other than a few scattered Dypsis decipiens.

Jeff, are you growing any of those from seed? What do you think compared to the other ones going around as true Ambo?

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Jeff Searle

Jeff, is this palm as hard to grow as decipiens, for Floridians? I have yet to encounter anyone with this palm in the ground, that lives in our state(even though a few of us are having some luck with decipiens)...

Hi Andrew,

I would have to say yes. I know many people over the years have tried both of these and I can't say I know of any one person having luck with either of these in the ground, for more than 3 or 4 years.

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Jeff Searle

Most these Ambo's are growing into a prettier Dypsis "bef" type plant. The true Ambo's hand collected by Bill and Pete and germinated in 2006 are turning out to be a much slower growing plant then these other things.

Len I agree, these are very much like Slick Willy. One thing about some ambo seeds collected by Bill and Pete that I read in an earlier post was that they didn't actually collect the seeds themselves but rather some locals were sent out for some and came back with a motley collection. Could these be the same seeds you are talking about? If so they were not collected in the presence of Bill and Pete and may have been picked up off the ground. I will try and find the post.

cheers

Richard

Maybe you meant, Bill, Pete and Jeff? :D The three of us were traveling together. And specifically, the three of us didn't personally hand collect these seeds we brought back. They had been collected by the locals prior to our arrival and sold to us when we expressed interest in them. This was definitely Dypsis ambositrae growing in habitat,as there are no other species growing near by other than a few scattered Dypsis decipiens.

Jeff, are you growing any of those from seed? What do you think compared to the other ones going around as true Ambo?

Hi Len,

All of the seed that I brought back was distributed long ago, and some were germinated and sold off. And frankly, I have read this topic twice and it's so damn confusing with all these names attached, I'm at a lost! For those of you that bought plants in late 06 or maybe 07 from Jeff Marcus, these most likely came from our collecting trip.

Jeff

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MattyB

One of my two largest plants came from Jeff Marcus in 2006, actually labled as Dypsis onilahensis, and he later confirmed that there was a mix-up and that it was in fact D. ambositrae, if anyone remembers that discussion....just to confuse things more.

My two large D. ambositrae, one from Jeff Marcus, and one from Jungle Music are planted in the same hole and are pictured below. They are both the same plant. They do look very similar to the Dypsis sp. 'slick willy' aka 'bef' but they are more colorful and I think the slickwilly/bef plants tend to have a more compact, shuttle cock feel to them with very short petioles, whereas the D. ambositrae tend to have a longer petiole, even in sun, and a more recurved frond.....that's just my observations and of course a lot of that could be cultural, but saying that they look similar is a good comparision.

My D. ambositrae do not have leaflets grouped in 2-5's, they are very regular, nor do they have ramenta.

Here's the Jeff Marcus plant in 2007, and then both of them at the time of planting in April of '08.

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edric

Jeff, is this palm as hard to grow as decipiens, for Floridians? I have yet to encounter anyone with this palm in the ground, that lives in our state(even though a few of us are having some luck with decipiens)...

I agree with Jeff, but here's what you could try for Florida, when you've got one too big for a 20 gallon pot, then build a planter about 32 inches high, place it under the east side of an Oak tree, far enough under so it gets full sun until about noon at the most, fill the planter with 50% Perlite, and 50% Coco peat core, plant Palm, worry about trimming the Oak tree back later, but it'll probably get fried, my huge Queen, and my Pindo get watered every day, and are shaded buy 80 foot pines half the time, it's April, and there fried, but we'll worry about all of that in 20 years, when you've got one too big for a twenty gallon pot, Ed

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MattyB

Here's some pics of them this morning. They were more recurved when they were younger and in full unobstructed sun, but they are becoming quite elongated now that they are competing with all the surrounding plants in close proximity. The red petioles become more rusty in color as they age and become covered in a waxy coating, not sure if that's more prominent here in our low humidity compared to FL or HI. To me these look exactly like the Jeff Marcus plant pictured earlier in this thread. These plants were pretty slow growing in the pots, when young, but once I put them in the ground in full, all day sun, they really started to take off. But again, no ramenta, no grouped leaflets. So is this D. ambo or another fakey?

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LJG

Matt I was just saying they have that Bef affinity, not that they are the same plant.

Yours have grown very well.

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BS Man about Palms

Maybe you meant, Bill, Pete and Jeff? :D The three of us were traveling together. And specifically, the three of us didn't personally hand collect these seeds we brought back. They had been collected by the locals prior to our arrival and sold to us when we expressed interest in them. This was definitely Dypsis ambositrae growing in habitat,as there are no other species growing near by other than a few scattered Dypsis decipiens.

Jeff, are you growing any of those from seed? What do you think compared to the other ones going around as true Ambo?

Hi Len,

All of the seed that I brought back was distributed long ago, and some were germinated and sold off. And frankly, I have read this topic twice and it's so damn confusing with all these names attached, I'm at a lost! For those of you that bought plants in late 06 or maybe 07 from Jeff Marcus, these most likely came from our collecting trip.

Jeff

Whew....

I thought I was the only one having trouble keeping up! Redunculous! :D

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MattyB

Matt I was just saying they have that Bef affinity, not that they are the same plant.

Yeah, I know. I liked your comparision. They are very similar.

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richnorm

Matty, I see some grouping there, not pronounced but the leaflet spacing is not entirely regular either. I also think I can see some ramenta! They are very small and brown and only found on the occasional leaflet near the rachis end tight inot the leaf fold. I think your big plants are the same as my big one but mine has almost no petiole. Onilahensis may in fact be the correct botanical name. If a plant as distinct as Slick Willy (brevinodis) was considered onilahensis then maybe the botanists assumed this plant we are growing as ambo was also just another variation. After all if it is found all over the plateau as has been asserted here then you would think they saw it. As I've said before, Bill Beattie was shown a picture of one of these and picked it as possibly a form of onilahensis.

Edited by richnorm

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MattyB

I just double checked some of the pics and I think you're right, there is some slight grouping.

There are no ramenta. You're probably seeing spider webs, dirt, etc. I will double check tonight though.

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MattyB

ok here we go..... here are some more photos of the largest palm...

photo-17.jpg

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photo-19.jpg

Dude! I just noticed that your palm has slightly grouped leaflets and ramenta! Look! I was going to say that this is the same plant as mine, but now I think it's different. Your palm also doesn't seem to have the petiole fuzz extending down onto the crownshaft that mine does.

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richnorm

I'm looking at the leaflet attachment point onto the rachis and I see NO grouping. Depending on how much sun and wind a plant gets, the leaflets can go a little wonky the farther and farther away from the attachment point they get.

There are no ramenta. You're probably seeing spider webs, dirt, etc.

By grouping I mean the space between each leaflet varies a little so that some are closer than others. I think some use this term to mean fanning (angle of attachement)which is different. I will grab a picture of the ramenta, sure is not clear from your photos but the slight grouping is, to my eye at least. BTW are those palms tristichous? Looks like it but again it's hard to see from photos.

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edric

Are you guys telling me, that this species is truly clustering, if so as soon as you can verify such, the 3 year old specimens are pick up only, for a pittance, to whoever wants red, white, and green looking Bamboo, Ed

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richnorm

Ramenta , sorry about the picture quality. These only appear on a few leaflets and have only recently started to show.

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richnorm

Grouping, sorry another lousy shot!

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richnorm

Are you guys telling me, that this species is truly clustering, if so as soon as you can verify such, the 3 year old specimens are pick up only, for a pittance, to whoever wants red, white, and green looking Bamboo, Ed

Some split, most haven't yet but maybe it's early days.

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MattyB

I'm looking at the leaflet attachment point onto the rachis and I see NO grouping. Depending on how much sun and wind a plant gets, the leaflets can go a little wonky the farther and farther away from the attachment point they get.

There are no ramenta. You're probably seeing spider webs, dirt, etc.

By grouping I mean the space between each leaflet varies a little so that some are closer than others. I think some use this term to mean fanning (angle of attachement)which is different. I will grab a picture of the ramenta, sure is not clear from your photos but the slight grouping is, to my eye at least. BTW are those palms tristichous? Looks like it but again it's hard to see from photos.

Rich,

You're right, there is some grouping. I actually edited my response above but you had already copied it into your reply. These Dypsis just love to make things confusing!

Are you showing ramenta on your plant or is that a picture of my plant? I don't think my plant has ramenta.

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MattyB

Are you guys telling me, that this species is truly clustering, if so as soon as you can verify such, the 3 year old specimens are pick up only, for a pittance, to whoever wants red, white, and green looking Bamboo, Ed

Some split, most haven't yet but maybe it's early days.

One of mine split but appears to have abandonded one of the growing points.

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MattyB

OK this is a mess now.

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richnorm

OK this is a mess now.

We crossed posts! Those ramenta are on my plant. There are very few, took me a while to find any. These ambo threads always end up in confusion!

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edric

Thanks guys, but I expect nearly all of them to split above ground elevation, once only, but not 4 times like sp. bef, and can you tell me is the division on the sp. bef, below ground, thanks, Ed

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LJG

Ed, Bef can be from single to multiple trunked. Bills from the heel video is single.

Rich, I think we are making a leap that if these other things are not true Ambo (leap in its self) that they too would still not have similar characteristics of Ambo. Just got to grow them up and all will be balanced in the universe. :)

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richnorm

Ed, Bef can be from single to multiple trunked. Bills from the heel video is single.

Rich, I think we are making a leap that if these other things are not true Ambo (leap in its self) that they too would still not have similar characteristics of Ambo. Just got to grow them up and all will be balanced in the universe. :)

To be sure Len, a few dots are missing at the moment.

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edric

Btw, the best advice Len, but here's a few photos of the new leaf opened in Feb., it is already getting the uneven pinnae arrangement, Ed

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DippyD

Matt,

I took those photos so everyone could see that they leaflets are actually grouped in 2-5, and on the newest opening leaf mine does get ramenta. My leafs are recurved like you said yours has done, I can't almost guarantee you your palm will turn into this in a more mature state, my plant is working on its 4th or 5th ring of trunk.

I'm resorting to the conditions each of these palms are being grown in is giving it different characteristics.

I'd wish pogobob would snap a pic of his, that way you can see that your palm looked like his and in another year or two it will look something like mine and richs. Maybe it comes down to different ph levels in the soil and different ferts with sun exposure and how much water it's getting. If it like to be more dry or sucks water like a pig.

Len lets see what yours are looking like.

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Jeff Searle

You want to know what I beleive? I beleive some of you guys have waaaaay tooooo much time on your hands.

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DippyD

Here is a photo the shows the ramenta rich talks about I believe

photo-22.jpg

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DippyD

Here is one showing the recurved leaf

photo-23.jpg

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DippyD

You want to know what I beleive? I beleive some of you guys have waaaaay tooooo much time on your hands.

hey its raining over here and us californians don't know what to do when we get a 1/2 inch of rain other that to sit and over think a palm

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Pedro 65

Stevo (Urban rainforest) wheres yr Ambo pics? :)

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LJG

Len lets see what yours are looking like.

Here are three I am growing all showing a different look. The small one in the middle is only about a year younger than the other two, so you can see what I mean by it is much slower grower. Also, look at the leaflets at an early age, they overlap where as these other the leaflets were pretty spread out as has been shown here on younger ones. The one on the left I bought as a 1 gallon from Phil in 2007, the one on far right I bought last Spring from Rancho Soledad (similar to DippyD's big one).

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ellidro

I think we are splitting hairs here and maybe reading too much into the "grouped and ramenta" comments in the POM. My larger plant has has leaves that all have quite different looks, and they are on the same plant. The newest leaf if very grouped, the one before not as much but has almost a 360 degree twist to it. Some of the older leaves don't look grouped at all. Im not sure if any of the "true" ambo's are the real deal but to me all the plants that have been available recently (last 6-7 years) as "true" ambo's are the same plant with subtle differences. This "true" ambo plant might actually be one of the Dypsis that seem to grow better in SoCal than in Hawaii so some of us Californians might actually have flowers/seeds sooner than later. I'll try to post some updated pics soon.

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Moose

You want to know what I beleive? I beleive some of you guys have waaaaay tooooo much time on your hands.

... or Dypsis Dementia symptoms Jeff

LOL :lol:

I need to go bump an old thread :o

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edric

I think we are splitting hairs here and maybe reading too much into the "grouped and ramenta" comments in the POM. My larger plant has has leaves that all have quite different looks, and they are on the same plant. The newest leaf if very grouped, the one before not as much but has almost a 360 degree twist to it. Some of the older leaves don't look grouped at all. Im not sure if any of the "true" ambo's are the real deal but to me all the plants that have been available recently (last 6-7 years) as "true" ambo's are the same plant with subtle differences. This "true" ambo plant might actually be one of the Dypsis that seem to grow better in SoCal than in Hawaii so some of us Californians might actually have flowers/seeds sooner than later. I'll try to post some updated pics soon.

Hi Nick, I wouldn't have dared made that statement about reading too much into it, to Matty or Len, but I've got to admit I was thinking the same thing once I saw the differences between Lens trees, knowing they're most likely to be the same species, Ed

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MattyB

Oh my josh, all of len's are different!

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