Foxtails in California

[MattyB]

I have some seed grown ones that look pretty bad.

[Jastin]

From Cali? It's just what I heard, I have nothing solid to go off of. Mine are from Florida and now look good...or getting there. No spots so far this winter.

[MattyB]

Jastin,

Here's some pics of my Foxtails that I grew from seed. These have been outside, in the sun, for a couple of years now so it's not greenhouse burn or anything. It's cold spotting and/or fungus spots like Len said. This is up near the house where it hasn't dropped below 40F this year. Drainage is excellent in this area due to a solid rock shelf lying just below the surface as you can see just to the right of the first pic. Notice how the palm on the right is showing less spotting. What's up with that?

[MattyB]

Here's the base of my largest one looking very healthy, expanding, and pushing new roots.

[BigFrond]

Foxtails are very slow here in SoCal and required about 2 years to recover from damage. My soil is just not good for them because of the hard clay pan stuff. I dug three giant holes and amended the soil to and the foxtails are okay not great (one croaked this year). My friend foxtails (in Carlsbad) are very nice like the ones in Australia. He completely removed all of the soil from his yard and replaced it with top, quality soil (about 3 ft). I will not grow another foxtail even if it is free. I would rather grow purple king or chambey.

[Jastin]

Jastin,

Here's some pics of my Foxtails that I grew from seed. These have been outside, in the sun, for a couple of years now so it's not greenhouse burn or anything. It's cold spotting and/or fungus spots like Len said. This is up near the house where it hasn't dropped below 40F this year. Drainage is excellent in this area due to a solid rock shelf lying just below the surface as you can see just to the right of the first pic. Notice how the palm on the right is showing less spotting. What's up with that?

Thats how mine looked before I replanted them Matt. ill Take a pic tomorrow if i remember and post what they look like now. I know a lot of people from the hort community from going to school and ill ask them as well. I've heard thats a fungus too but it doesnt make sense to me. I have a neighbor that has a huge one and it looks pretty bad in the winter but pulls out of it every year. Humidity? I don't know!

[Cedric]

These are very easy palms for the most even seedlings will take direct sun and grow up very fast, hard as nails, drought, typhoon, frost hardy thought the latter I've personally never seen.

One thing I have found is that they are very variable in girth, leaf length, colour of leaf and height and in the tropics or sub tropics even will grow anywhere even on rooftops, little broom stick thin with delightfull umbrellas or huge fat things towering up from the ground.

Cultural circumstances seem to play a big role in this at least I am led to believe but nonetheless im always collecting seedlings from different countries as the differences are often dramatic. So far they remain very variable in my area.

My first are tall robust things like Roystonia but with short very fat grey green tails but all those I see in Thailand for example and pictures in the wild in Australia have extremely long drooping leaves sometimes almost to the ground and the they are not nearly as thickly plumose as mine and the colour is a light green. Maybe there is some hybridisation with Normanbya normanbyi going on.

Some I have have seen imported from China are simply not foxtails but Normanbya normanbyi which is much more grey green.

Maybe the better the soil humidity etc the more growth in the trunk and faster turn over in leaf the opposite the more growth in the leaf on slender trunks in poor soil? I dunno

Think they like humidity especially in summer, possibly their only weakness not sure but in the wild where they grow it is humid for most of the year far as I can tell even though they have a dry and wet season though I cant work the climate out exactly as the info is a bit random as there are many changes and differences in climate in the area.

[Jastin]

Here is mine after the transplants. They didn't do anything for 2 years when I first planted them, not even one leaf. They have skinny trunks which I don't like but I won't try anymore after this. Since I transplanted them they have put out 1-2 leaves and hardly ( if any ) have any spots. I have poor nutrients in my soil but now have great drainage in this area.

[newcal]

Hi guys,it's not only excellent drainage that foxtails require but also HEAT and plenty of it! In its natural environment(Melrose Range ,se Cape York Peninsula) has a subequatorial monsoonal climate ( DEC-APRIL hot and humid,MAY-SEPT cooler but still with daytime temps in the high 20s).If your air/soil temps are low don't even think about watering as foxies are prone to phytophora especially in clay soils...the old saying if you have clay soils,build up not down.They are very adaptable though and will grow in warm temperate climates as long as heat / drainage is addressed...hope this helps...Cheers MIKE GREEN(NEWCAL)

[Randall SD]

Here's a couple pictures I took of mine today. It probably has perfect drainage being at the top corner of two fairly high retaining walls. The soil itself is an amended rocky clay so I think the location has a lot to do with the root health. I have another one that gets wet feet in the winter that isn't doing so well.

[BS Man about Palms]

Can't fool me Randall!!! I know the secret to its health is slow Drip Dr Pepper... (I do the same... )

[sonoranfans]

Here is mine after the transplants. They didn't do anything for 2 years when I first planted them, not even one leaf. They have skinny trunks which I don't like but I won't try anymore after this. Since I transplanted them they have put out 1-2 leaves and hardly ( if any ) have any spots. I have poor nutrients in my soil but now have great drainage in this area.

Foxtails do require good drainage and hate wet feet, in winter especially. I have seen great looking ones and terrible looking ones in florida. The great looking ones are invariably in good draining soil, and the worst are in slow draining clay where they suffer constantly wet roots. Great drainage and sandy soils means that supplying nutrients consistently through time is tricky. Those foxtails look like they are suffering from mineral deficiency(mg?), the yellowing from leaflet tip in is a characteristic. A reputable time release fertilizer would be a good approach. In high drainage sandy soils, foxtails can be a little fussy with mineral nutrition. Im not sure how foxtails do after cutting roots(transplantation), many palms are shocked by that.

I have seen the leaf spot on mine in florida, mostly in the cool season when condensing humidity and cool conditions frequently occur, and when they get less hours of sunlight. I have also seen the identical spotting on other palms(jubutiagrus brahea clara) that are also not necessarily "wet concdition lovers". Archontos, and dypsis pembanas never get it, even when right next to the infected foxtail. My investigations seem to indicate that its graphiola leaf spotting, a fungus. the spotting occurs mainly on older fronds, but can spread to new ones if no fungicide is used.

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/pests/plant_pests/trees/hgic2007.html

Best treatment is to apply fungicide on NEW leaflets to prevent spotting. Apparently fungicide applications do not remove it, just prevent it from spreading. It could be that foxtails dont like the frequent condensing humidity that occurs in some coastal areas.

[Randall SD]

Can't fool me Randall!!! I know the secret to its health is slow Drip Dr Pepper... (I do the same... )

Now my secret is out! You just can't beat two cans of the stuff a month for a healthy Foxtail (diet works best to avoid a sugar crash later) .

[dp92651]

Keeping this thread going. I just moved my foxtail, was shocked to see how much root had developed w/ one year in the ground.

I got tired of digging and beat the ____ out of the roots in the process. At 7' tall it ended up w 18"/16" rootball..OUCH!

My question is this: How long until I know if it is dead? It still looks OK after two weeks but dont see any growth (no surprise there). I have been watering once a week with warm water and superthrive.

Cheers.

[richnorm]

I'm obviously not in Cali. but wonder if you guys have the problem of spears not opening. My potted foxtail with a couple of feet of trunk has three spears and is starting a fourth but only two leaves. It never looks good but I haven't the heart to kill it.

Rich, this seems to be common too with these palms here. I have seen it a few times in my garden and others. They won't open I believe from dehydration. Over time (years sometimes) the palm will start to get lose when you push on it and a while later it usually falls over or dies in place. The results were from root rot. As roots were rotting, it was causing the new fronds to be dehydrated and not open. Foxtails seem to have a small margin for error. They are either robust and healthy palms, or they slowly die. Certainly not one of those palms that can look like crap and continue to live.

Len you were right about dehydration but the cause was a pan of coffee grounds which sent the water down the sides of the pot. Having churned up the surface I've had two leaves open. Same thing with my Spindle. Happy days!

[Cikas]

Here's a couple pictures I took of mine today. It probably has perfect drainage being at the top corner of two fairly high retaining walls. The soil itself is an amended rocky clay so I think the location has a lot to do with the root health. I have another one that gets wet feet in the winter that isn't doing so well.

They look great.

[Matt in OC]

Bumping for the invaluable info in this thread.

I noticed over the weekend that one of my youngish triple Foxtails was starting to look a little sickly starting from the oldest fronds. It looked similar to what happened to one of my Big Box cheapies that I pulled last year and which is currently on life support with nothing but two unopened spears. I checked out the soil and, sure enough, it was extremely moist at the top. I had turned on my irrigation a few weeks ago as things started to warm up but these Foxtails HATE cold, wet feet, particularly in my clay soil. I'm hoping I caught it early enough and all three will be fine (the other two look good).

But it's a good reminder (again) to me that overwatering these guys is a death sentence. Hopefully I'll remember that these guys should get jack squat supplemental watering in the winter.

Now to figure out the mystery of why one of my California seed ones is flourishing in the front, partial sun!

[Danilopez89]

Hi guys,it's not only excellent drainage that foxtails require but also HEAT and plenty of it! In its natural environment(Melrose Range ,se Cape York Peninsula) has a subequatorial monsoonal climate ( DEC-APRIL hot and humid,MAY-SEPT cooler but still with daytime temps in the high 20s).If your air/soil temps are low don't even think about watering as foxies are prone to phytophora especially in clay soils...the old saying if you have clay soils,build up not down.They are very adaptable though and will grow in warm temperate climates as long as heat / drainage is addressed...hope this helps...Cheers MIKE GREEN(NEWCAL)

Excellent info in this thread. Hey Mike Green sounds like that climate is like mine except that our cold months are your warm months and our warm months are your cold ones. Someone suggested that I try them out. He said he thinks they'll do good here. And I remember him talking about this not watering them at all during the cold. Or something like that. He claims to know "how to properly grow foxtails in So Cal" and that many don't.

[MattyB]

Three years later (with a couple of mild winters) and mine are doing pretty darn good. The lowest leaf or two get spotting and yellowing, but that's just how palms work. They hold a good deal of healthy green leaves in the crown now so I'm happy with them.

[Pip]

This thread is really encouraging. I'm now thinking about trying a few Foxtails again. My first and only experience with them was with a couple I bought from the sick plant table at a big box store. One was planted on sand above clay but died with in weeks the other was planted into the natural clay loam but at the top of a slope it grew very slowly for ten years before it died. It never looked good only making 1 to 3 new leaves per year. Drought ended that sad palms life.

[hopper]

Pip.

I also attempted with one around Sept last year, ended up with a bit of fungus from possibly being to wet. I suspect it was like that when i purchased it, but was non the wiser then.

I may end up getting a new one from Virginia Nurseries, as that's the only other place I have seen them outside of the original Foxtail from Sept.

The Foxtails at Virginia Nurseries are bigger and better established so may have a better chance once I get them home.

I don't recall any at Palm Plantation Cavan.

Do you know of any other suppliers of Foxtails in our area?

Hopper

[Pip]

Pip.

I also attempted with one around Sept last year, ended up with a bit of fungus from possibly being to wet. I suspect it was like that when i purchased it, but was non the wiser then.

I may end up getting a new one from Virginia Nurseries, as that's the only other place I have seen them outside of the original Foxtail from Sept.

The Foxtails at Virginia Nurseries are bigger and better established so may have a better chance once I get them home.

I don't recall any at Palm Plantation Cavan.

Do you know of any other suppliers of Foxtails in our area?

Hopper

They tend to be offered randomly at any retail outlet. The last time I saw any was at Bunnings it was an advanced specimen.

[sashaeffer]

Great thread and reminder to not over water. Had one that died before my eyes when I brought it inside in the fall and soil was too wet from being outside(where it thrived even in it's pot).

Know a fellow palm collector in Canada who has a double and she keeps hers in her barn where it can get into the low 40's (F) and she said she doesn't water it all winter long and survives.

Was able to pick up a nice 6 footer at local nursery basically for free in 3 gallon pot that I keep in a high sided bowel and when I water every two weeks I add water to the bowel and not in the top of the 3 gallon pot. So far......seems the way to go. It is however a real Spider mite magnet so have to watch it like a hawk to keep it sprayed with Neem Oil. Stunningly beautiful palm....all time top favorite of mine but sure takes a lot of effort to keep happy here.

[Phoenikakias]

I grow 5 little plants from seeds in a single pot. They spend whole winter in my unheated cold frome, and so far they do fine. I water them once weekly but substrate consists mainly of pumice plus some finer particles of perlite, zeolite, roten wood, cocos-coir and orgamic soil. I am surprised at how healthy they still look....

[Capnrey]

The four that I have in my front yard a doing great - BUT, I've discovered that I really do have to feed them to stay healthy. The first one I bought and planted (2009) got stunted after two years, because I was neglecting to feed it. Once I started feeding it again, it started throwing longer fronds again. Foxtails with short fronds looks crappy. Wind doesn't seem to bother them at all - they're exposed to the west (Dana Point), and one of them gets shade from a Kentia most of the day - despite that, it still does really well now considering it almost died when I planted it. Anyway, I've learned that my foxtails have to be fed on a regular basis.

[Mandrew968]

I remember Jessie Bergman saying that when he visited Australia people had mentioned that there's 3 different varieties that perform differently. Something about the color of the leaflet to rachis attachment point being a clue as to which one it is. Red, Yellow, Green if I remember correctly.

Any Aussies have any insight to this?

Hi Matty, I've never heard of the 3 types before, don't think that's correct. Foxtail palms do tend to yellow a little outside the natural environs in winter days, they did at my old place, nothin' to worry about, agree with Kurt - Don't fertilise, that's all I have, pleasant growing..

Wal,

I agree. Please no rumors on three different types! As far as you Cali guys goes, I'm willing to bet it's too cold plus a combination of poor drainage and too much water for causing so many problems.

Jeff must be a carpenter to some extent, cuz he hit that nail with one shot!

[Jim in Los Altos]

The "foxy lady" I mentioned doing so well back in my 2012 post turned out to be a regular foxtail palm and it has done well up here in Nor. CA since planting it in one of the warmer parts of my front garden as a tiny seedling. It's almost seven feet tall now and the worst problem I've had with it is some spotting that you guys in So. CA have mentioned. I planted a larger one last year that Ben gave me and it's in a shadier spot and growth stops in winter but it looks okay otherwise.

I have fertile, free draining soil and these foxtails get a lot of water in winter. My foxy lady, on the other hand, is easily growing ten times as fast as the foxtails. Last summer it doubled in height from four feet to eight feet and continued pushing spears this winter. Photo posting isn't possible until I get my new Internet setup in a week.

[Ben in Norcal]

My smaller fox is still hanging on here in the pot on my back deck, Jim...

[Jim in Los Altos]

My smaller fox is still hanging on here in the pot on my back deck, Jim...

Great, Ben. The one you gave me still needs some time to establish. The roots in the bottom half of the pot were rotted out likely from the soil getting too cold being kept in a pot but it's green and I think it will begin faster growth this spring since it's been in the ground now for 3/4 of a year. It's next to my Lemur palm in a shaded but warm microclimate.

[DoomsDave]

Fox-tees can be truly awesome if well-grown. I saw some in Florida near Fort Myers that looked a lot like Royals, and did a much better job of stopping a police car.

[Ben in Norcal]

I'm sure it will. You have the microclimate.

[KennyRE317]

mine's in a bad drainage spot and does great in full all day sun year round but it also got some spots in the winter but it grew through the winter

[Phoenikakias]

Do they (fox trees) need deep pots like desert palms?

[Matt in OC]

Bump! Looking forward to seeing which of my Foxtails make it through this winter. With it being so warm lately, I'm going to make sure not to underwater these guys. We'll see what happens.

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

My big one is flowering, or at least getting ready to.

It's nowhere near as robust as some I've seen in the 'hood. They appear to like: (a) lots of heat; (b) not being moved; (c) lots of heat (bears repeating!); (d) deep infrequent watering, especially in clay; and (e) full blistering sun.

My large one gets the overspray from nearby royals and Dypsis and Rhapis. They definitely seem to like south Florida better from what I've seen.

My experience with small ones is like Matt's: they're really slow and ugly for a while, then ZOOM away they go. I suspect they need time to form a large root system.

[Matt in OC]

My shorties did NOTHING for a over a year. 2 years later the one in full sun got really fat and bushy. It's only about 5 feet but pretty robust looking. Meanwhile, the one in basically full shade (growing right up into a gigas) is about 8 feet tall (!).

So, I'm tempted to not go too light on the watering this winter with my young triple (based on what the shade one did) which will be in the ground 2 years in March, and see what happens. I think these guys go real vertical with their roots and like deep watering. If not, out it comes.

edit: I should add that I have clay soil and my large shade one was getting flooded by a sprinkler.

[DoomsDave]

23 minutes ago, Matt in OC said:

My shorties did NOTHING for a over a year. 2 years later the one in full sun got really fat and bushy. It's only about 5 feet but pretty robust looking. Meanwhile, the one in basically full shade (growing right up into a gigas) is about 8 feet tall (!).

So, I'm tempted to not go too light on the watering this winter with my young triple (based on what the shade one did) which will be in the ground 2 years in March, and see what happens. I think these guys go real vertical with their roots and like deep watering. If not, out it comes.

edit: I should add that I have clay soil and my large shade one was getting flooded by a sprinkler.

Hmm. The mystery deepens. Maybe I spoke too soon about sun.

 

 

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

2 hours ago, Matt in OC said:

My shorties did NOTHING for a over a year. 2 years later the one in full sun got really fat and bushy. It's only about 5 feet but pretty robust looking. Meanwhile, the one in basically full shade (growing right up into a gigas) is about 8 feet tall (!).

So, I'm tempted to not go too light on the watering this winter with my young triple (based on what the shade one did) which will be in the ground 2 years in March, and see what happens. I think these guys go real vertical with their roots and like deep watering. If not, out it comes.

edit: I should add that I have clay soil and my large shade one was getting flooded by a sprinkler.

mine was planted October 2014 as a 20 gallon. Did nothing but lose several lower leaves (they turned completely brown) until summer 2015, opening 2 leaves, and is now opening a third on December 8. I am very surprised it is growing in December, but maybe it was merely sulking that first winter....

[steve99]

In Qld, Australia there is plenty of good examples of Foxtails growing as far South as Brisbane and even into Northern NSW.  But in saying that, Foxtail palms do best in the tropics, there's no question about that.

Around Townsville (20S) and Cairns(16S) they seem to flourish and the difference in their appearance compared to Foxies grown further South is quite apparent.

 

 

Here's a few growing at Shoal Point, Mackay and the Palmetum, Townsville.

Edited December 9, 2015 by steve99
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[Pete in Paradise Hills]

7 minutes ago, Pete in Paradise Hills said:

mine was planted October 2014 as a 20 gallon. Did nothing but lose several lower leaves (they turned completely brown) until summer 2015, opening 2 leaves, and is now opening a third on December 8. I am very surprised it is growing in December, but maybe it was merely sulking that first winter....

just took a night shot of my foxtail where you can see the spear opening