Who wants to move

[bgl]

Justin,

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life! Always fun to revisit old posts like this one (which I had forgotten all about).

Yes, Leilani Estates is in Lava Zone 1. Some background: there are nine lava risk zones on the Big Island, from Zone 1 (highest risk) to Zone 9 (basically completely risk free). Even though these numbers are only rough estimates (since nobody kept track of this stuff in the old Hawaiian days), Zone 1 means that the area that's been covered by lava sinze 1800 is greater than 25%. In Zone 2 it's 15-25% and in Zone 3 it's 1-5%. Interestingly, all of Kailua-Kona is in Zone 4 (about 5% has been covered since 1800), and the last lava flow from nearby Hualalai Volcano was in 1801.

And the obvious question: if I'm going to move to the Big Island, why not pick a low risk zone? Good question! In the very beginning (1990) I was checking out places on the Hamakua coast, north of Hilo. Risk zone 8. Completely safe. There are some beautiful places up there, and we know lots of people who have outstanding palm gardens in that area. But most of the land that was available in 1990 was old sugarcane land. Large open areas without a single tree and very exposed to the wind. I didn't find anything I could fall in love with. A few years later I was back on the island, and decided to explore the Puna district despite the fact that it is in Zone 1, 2 and 3. Found Leilani Estates, and knew right away that this was it. Beautiful rainforest and a perfect environment for growing palms (and other plants!). A bit of elevation (700-1000 ft) so it's cooler than the coastal areas. No need for A/C or heating in houses here. And yes, one obvious (potential) drawback is the fact that Leilani Estates is in Zone 1. We are right smack on top of the East Rift Zone, which runs from Kilauea volcano, down to the village of Kapoho, and then continues for another 70 miles or so below the sea floor. I had to think about that one for a couple of weeks, before I could accept the concept of living on top of a live volcano. But, throughout life I have come to appreciate the fact that we're not going to get what we really want without taking risks. And the fact was, I liked Leilani Estates better than any other area or subdivision and I thought to myself "we could buy land on the Hamakua coast, and be perfectly safe, and then 40 years from now, when I'm pretty old, I might look back and say "shucks, there was no lava flow that threatened Leilani Estates, so why didn't I go for what I really wanted?". And, the various risk zones simply reflect the statistical probability. If you lived in Kalapana 20 years ago, it didn't help that the area was in Zone 2. 185 homes still got destroyed there in 1990. It's estimated that there's about a 4% risk that a lava flow will threaten our area in my lifetime. That's a risk I'm willing to take!

And Gary,

I'm sure we talked about this when you came to visit us, but Karolyn of course grew up in New York City. That's pretty much the ultimate city girl! And it did take several years for her to adjust to life here. She STILL to this day has this message on her phone "...and welcome to a different way of life". And that it is!

Bo-Göran

Keith - just saw your post after I had posted the above. I have never, ever, heard of anyone who complained about "island fever" on the Big Island. If you were to drive around the entire island, without stopping, it's about a 6 hour drive. It takes us two and a half hours when we drive from here over to Kailua-Kona on the other side of the island. There's enough space here! On a smaller island, like Kauai for instance, I could see it be a potential issue.

[Alicehunter2000]

I would be hard pressed to beat these beaches. However, I would probably move to the Big Island if it were not for family and business. Regardless, I am still considering buying property there as possibly a vacation home. I have dreamed about it since before palms when I was just a boy.

[bgl]

David,

well, the beaches close to us certainly look different and they are NOT for children (but there are some nice ones in the Hilo area for kids). This is the closest beach to us - I can get there in 15 minutes or so. That's my sister and her husband when they were visiting us from Sweden back in March this year. What's fascinating about this beach and the cliffs you see in the background is that up to the summer of 1990, this area was WAY out in the ocean, almost half a mile off shore. Then the lava flow came, filled the entire bay and wiped out the existing black sand beach, but created this new one on land that didn't even exist before 1990!

Bo-Göran

And unless we can quickly get some palm photos in here, this thread should probably be moved to Ohana Nui....

[doubravsky]

I know when my wife and I looked out there, we had long talked about wanting to retire someplace tropical. Everywhere has it's downside... we were thinking Mexico or Central America, but worried about politics and safety. When I started looking at Bo's threads about Leilani... I was halfway sold before visiting! Then when my wife and I flew over and had a look around, we bought a lot by the end of the weekend.

We were worried about lava initially... but then thought about my parents in Tennessee and the near miss tornadoes... and the earthquakes here in southern california... and figured you gotta take a risk somehow to get what you want.

[chris.oz]

I know when my wife and I looked out there, we had long talked about wanting to retire someplace tropical. Everywhere has it's downside... we were thinking Mexico or Central America, but worried about politics and safety. When I started looking at Bo's threads about Leilani... I was halfway sold before visiting! Then when my wife and I flew over and had a look around, we bought a lot by the end of the weekend.

We were worried about lava initially... but then thought about my parents in Tennessee and the near miss tornadoes... and the earthquakes here in southern california... and figured you gotta take a risk somehow to get what you want.

So Dave ,

have you started planting yet ?

Any before Pix.....

transitional pix ?

[Walter John]

Here you go Bo.

[Alicehunter2000]

Bo, this area was tore up badly by Hurricane Opal several years ago. If you notice the dune line, it still shows the effects of erosion. Fort Walton and Pensacola were hit worse only because they allow building on top of this dune line. If the condo's were still standing the first 2 floors were usually totally gutted and many buildings were left structurally unsound. As has been repeated several times in this thread, almost all places have there drawbacks.

BTW, looks like the surf might get good there........are the new lava bottoms there too nasty to surf over?

Here is a picture some B. capita growing next to the beach, to keep the thread palmy.

[Alicehunter2000]

That's weird it didn't post my picture.......I'll try for a third time

[bgl]

David,

Nice Butia! And let's add a few more palms that are relevant to this thread: Lodoicea maldivica in June 2004 and again in April 2008.

BTW - that area is not "surfable". But there is a very popular surfing spot about ten miles away.

Bo-Göran

[Matt in SD]

Nice to see this topic back. I just can't pass up the opportunity to re-announce that we are selling our house in Leilani (see the palms for sale section or send me a PM). I have to say I really have no complaints about the area, other than the mosquitoes, and I'm not at all thrilled about selling. I love it out there and my wife would move in a heartbeat. But there aren't a lot of realistic work opportunities for me there. We had bought the house as an investment/vacation house, but now that we have three kids that require plane tickets and airfares just went up 2-3 fold, it's just too expensive to visit very often. And...the Southern California disadvantage people mentioned above - high home prices - comes into play since we are looking for a bigger house here and more property. I'm too far from retirement age (33 now) to keep the house in Leilani given the impact it will have on what we can afford here.

It's a great house for those looking for a place to vacation and start your future garden. We've already gotten it started with some nice palms and rare fruit trees.

I have to say about 49% of me says I should just take the plunge and move over there. But my job here is too good, and I am not entirely convinced that the improved climate, more laid back attitude, and better surfing will make up for the hit I would take in salary. I don't think I could handle moving out there and then not even being able to afford to buy palms!

Well anyways there are a few people here that said they're looking, so check out the for sale forum, or send me a PM if interested. I haven't listed it with a realtor yet, so there is still a chance to save some money on both sides.

Matt

Edited June 13, 2008 by Matt in SD

[realarch]

Interesting thread. Here's my 2 cents worth.

I truly feel fortunate enough to be moving to Hilo at the beginning of next year and honestly can't wait.

We fell in love with East Hawaii about 8 years ago and knew that's where we wanted to hang our hats. A few years later we got serious, bought a house, and started planning for the move. You know it's been one of the best things we have ever done in our 24 years together. It's given us a goal, a new spark, in spite of trying to coordinate a house remodel from the mainland. It's been five years going back and forth and now it's time. We aren't getting any younger. Single wall construction up on stilts, jealousie windows, and a tin roof with a view of Hilo Bay...we're so there. ( It's actually not that romantic, but it's still got some Hawaiian funk to it.) It's not like we don't have options either, we're keeping the SD house and renting it out just in case, but I doubt we'll ever move back to San Diego. Being born and raised in Albuquerque, it's the tropics for me!

Through this board, I've met some great people in Hawaii, Bo of course being one of them. I'm sure I don't have to expand on that one. His palm garden and shade house are both first class. I'm sure the Clino's, K. elegans,E. precatoria are doing just fine. My palm and tropical garden is all I think about these days and I can hardly wait to get back and dig in the dirt even though it's mostly ROCK. The palms I have managed to get in the ground seem to be happy and growing and currently I get to see them about every three months. No struggles for me, I want to put them in the ground and watch them grow like crazy. A couple of feet a year, I'll take that.

Our house sits at 600 feet within the Hilo city limits, about 130 inches of rain a year, warm days with ocean breezes and cool nights with mountain breezes. No monkeys, just frogs. VOG? What's that?. Lava, we're pretty much out of the danger zones. Come and visit!

[Guest Keith in Zone 9]

Bo, I plan to come back to the Big Island in May of '09. I hope to see your garden while there. I just might look around at property in the area. Even if I don't move there right away, I'd sure like to live there sometime before I die. Is real estate expensive?

[deezpalms]

Nice to see this thread bumped! I don't remember seeing this one before.

It's no surprise that I'll be moving to the big island soon but not soon enough dammit!!

[bgl]

Keith,

Just let me know when you're heading this way, and you're always welcome to stop by for a garden tour. The extended version! As far as real estate, on the Big Island, you'll find everything, from inexpensive to very expensive. Prices south of Hilo are generally speaking very reasonable, especially now that the market isn't doing so well. And I don't see that changing between now and next year.

Tim,

It was great to see you again, and just FYI - we are back in a more normal weather pattern with a bit of rain every day so your newly planted palms should do just fine!

Kawika,

Well, hopefully it won't be but so long...? Any plans to come back for a visit?

Bo-Göran

[Crownshafter]

We grow palms, palms dont grow us.

[pogobob]

Very interesting views, most seem to have "the grass is greener(palms) syndrome". I guess it's only human nature to lust for more and better than you have. I know that I've contemplated relocation in the past, but I am happy to travel and rent the World enjoying all. We are all very fortunate to be able to share our interests and experiences, and the truth is every location we come from has somethings that are for the better and some that are not.

[palmmermaid]

I love South Florida and would not live anywhere else in the continental US. Even with the hurricanes and tourists!

That being said, I would like to live for a couple of years in other places - Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, Brazil - to name a few. I think it takes a couple of years in a place to decide if it is really where you want to live. Although when I lived in Costa Rica, I think I could have stayed there forever - or at least until all the other Americans move in! I like to immerse myself in the local culture and leave everything else behind. If I wanted things to be the same, I shold stay where I was.

If my husband leaves this world before me, I will sell everything and just move from place to place as long as I am able. I can admire everyone else's garden and not have any responsibilities. Of course, my daughter thinks I have really gone over the edge!

[joe_OC]

Kitty - I Love your attitude!

[BobbyinNY]

Kitty - I Love your attitude!

Me too.... I agree 100% - that's what I would like to do..... The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the fence - only different.... Obviously living in a tropical climate allows you to grow more palms and if that's your only interest then the more tropical, the better... But for me, I'd like to be in a place that's multi-faceted... South Florida suits me fine and I hope to be down there very soon - I think that it has the best of both worlds.... The tropical keys are close, Miami is a great city, and it's only 2 1/2 hours by plane to New York so I can still get my fill of culture when I need it... If New York was tropical I would never want to leave... We have so much here in the summer - The Beach, City, and mountains are all within an hours drive - if it wasn't for that damn thing called winter...

[TikiRick]

Kitty - I Love your attitude!

Me too.... I agree 100% - that's what I would like to do..... The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the fence - only different.... Obviously living in a tropical climate allows you to grow more palms and if that's your only interest then the more tropical, the better... But for me, I'd like to be in a place that's multi-faceted... South Florida suits me fine and I hope to be down there very soon - I think that it has the best of both worlds.... The tropical keys are close, Miami is a great city, and it's only 2 1/2 hours by plane to New York so I can still get my fill of culture when I need it... If New York was tropical I would never want to leave... We have so much here in the summer - The Beach, City, and mountains are all within an hours drive - if it wasn't for that damn thing called winter...

Bobby,

Are you saying that we here in South Florida do not have culture?? You haven't seen me carve a tiki out of a dead Sabal palmetto yet!!

[BobbyinNY]

Kitty - I Love your attitude!

Me too.... I agree 100% - that's what I would like to do..... The grass really isn't greener on the other side of the fence - only different.... Obviously living in a tropical climate allows you to grow more palms and if that's your only interest then the more tropical, the better... But for me, I'd like to be in a place that's multi-faceted... South Florida suits me fine and I hope to be down there very soon - I think that it has the best of both worlds.... The tropical keys are close, Miami is a great city, and it's only 2 1/2 hours by plane to New York so I can still get my fill of culture when I need it... If New York was tropical I would never want to leave... We have so much here in the summer - The Beach, City, and mountains are all within an hours drive - if it wasn't for that damn thing called winter...

Bobby,

Are you saying that we here in South Florida do not have culture?? You haven't seen me carve a tiki out of a dead Sabal palmetto yet!!

Ok, Rick... I'm coming down... I need an extra tiki .... No, seriously, though.... South Florida has a ton of culture - I really do miss that Seafood Festival - that was the best... And the arts fair on Las Olas is awesome..

[Kim]

It's very interesting reading all the different plans and dreams, and also the dreams coming true, like for realarch, doubravsky, and Alicehunter. Also good to read that many are happy where they are, like Jeff, pogobob, and Kitty.

It's good to have plans and dreams, and it's important to act on them, and not just let life happen to you. As the years seem to pass more and more quickly, I figure if there's anything I want to do, I'd better get it on my schedule now. This attitude has been keeping me really busy lately...

Sometimes a slower pace of life with a faster rate of palm growth sounds irresistably appealing. While I'm not ready to completely drop out of the work force quite yet, the idea interests me enough to plan a trip to the islands to investigate thoroughly. --make that several trips to the islands! I'm looking forward to doing my homework on this project! (Wish I could work a deal with Matt today, but oh, the frustration!)

[MattyB]

Where's Leilani Estates?

[Pivi]

come on...

[deezpalms]

Keith,

Just let me know when you're heading this way, and you're always welcome to stop by for a garden tour. The extended version! As far as real estate, on the Big Island, you'll find everything, from inexpensive to very expensive. Prices south of Hilo are generally speaking very reasonable, especially now that the market isn't doing so well. And I don't see that changing between now and next year.

Tim,

It was great to see you again, and just FYI - we are back in a more normal weather pattern with a bit of rain every day so your newly planted palms should do just fine!

Kawika,

Well, hopefully it won't be but so long...? Any plans to come back for a visit?

Bo-Göran

Bo, plans for this year were nixed by the increase

Last year I paid $379 round trip to Oahu from San Diego now it's over $900!!

[MattyB]

Aye aye aye! Time to use those miles. I hope they didn't up them too?

[Walter John]

t's good to have plans and dreams, and it's important to act on them, and not just let life happen to you. As the years seem to pass more and more quickly, I figure if there's anything I want to do, I'd better get it on my schedule now. This attitude has been keeping me really busy lately..

spot on Kim, this is why I travel within oz each year to see/do something different each time.

[Walter John]

I love South Florida and would not live anywhere else in the continental US. Even with the hurricanes and tourists!

That being said, I would like to live for a couple of years in other places - Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, Brazil - to name a few. I think it takes a couple of years in a place to decide if it is really where you want to live. Although when I lived in Costa Rica, I think I could have stayed there forever - or at least until all the other Americans move in! I like to immerse myself in the local culture and leave everything else behind. If I wanted things to be the same, I shold stay where I was.

If my husband leaves this world before me, I will sell everything and just move from place to place as long as I am able. I can admire everyone else's garden and not have any responsibilities. Of course, my daughter thinks I have really gone over the edge!

I'll leave the porch light on for you Kitty.

[bgl]

Lots of interesting issues being brought up here, and it's tempting to dive right in, but I'm going to attempt to be selective! Bobby brought up "culture", which is an interesting aspect of where you live. "Culture" obviously means different things to different people. As in "Japanese culture" vs. "Polynesian culture" vs. "American culture" etc. OR to enjoy cultural events, which is not necessarily the same thing. Speaking from my own personal experience, I have been to more "cultural events" in Hilo during my 12 years here, than ever before in my life. And Garrin is much more involved in some of these cultural events than I am (Garrin - I need backup here!! ).

But, let's get back to palms...to make a major decision like (for instance) moving to the Big Island simply in order to grow palms would, in all likelihood, be the wrong decision. There are so many other factors that should be taken into consideration. I'm thinking of what Kitty said (that she would like to live a couple of years here and there in order to decide where she really wants to live) and my thoughts are actually somewhat different. I have come to believe that when it comes to the really big decisions in life (and I'm not going to spell them out!), then we know more or less instantly if it's the right thing to do when faced with a choice, or potential choice. When I stepped off the Aloha Airlines 737 at Hilo Airport for the first time in March 1990 I KNEW that this was "home". And I have lived in quite a few places and countries over the last 40 years. The environment & climate, the laidback lifestyle of a small but very unique community, and yes, also the fact that this is a somewhat isolated (but fairly large) island, all combined sent a very strong message to me, and there was no need for me to spend a substantial amount of time here to find out. Hmmm...I thought I was supposed to get back to palms.... let's try again:

PALMS - growing them in lava rock. First of all, I don't know if there's any particular nutritional value in the lava rock here. My guess would be "no". What makes this a great place to grow stuff is the abundant rainfall AND the incredible drainage that the lava provides. The fact that palms from very dry habitats, such as Bismarckia, Dypsis decipiens and Hyphaene, can not only be grown here, but actually thrive is proof enough. Palms have very different nutritional requirements. Some are very tolerant of harsh conditions (i.e. lack of nutrition in the soil) and will do better than those that have higher nutritional requirements if neglected. Those palms with higher nutritional requirements will tend to get yellow unless fertilized at least every now and then. When a palm is planted directly in a very rocky location here, then the roots will find their way through all the cracks and crevices that the lava provides, providing for great stability, and maybe also (who knows!?) for a bit of additional nutrition from deep down.

I have posted photos of this Pinanga coronata before. Years ago (maybe 7-8 years or so), a seed either fell from a nearby mature P. coronata, or was deposited here by a bird. There's a tiny crack in this little lava mold, and the seed fell into that crack and germinated. There's absolutely no soil and I never added any soil, nor did I ever fertilize this palm. It's now about 12-14 ft tall, and has been producing viable seeds for a while. The 3 volunteer seedlings that can be seen are in all likelihood from the initial volunteer.

[Graviton]

I have been enjoying this forum for quite a while and this thread made me want to post my own comments for the first time.

(And I'm not sure I'm using this editor correctly...)

Like several other members, I have dreamed of having a tropical hideaway for a long time, even though I had not really ‘discovered’ palms yet.

Five years ago, I visited Hilo and looked at some lots and inexpensive houses. I drove down to Leilani and really liked the way it looked and felt, so I bought a lot there. My wife and I designed a house, trying to make the most of the exotic scenery. We started building about a year ago and the house should be finished this summer.

Three years ago, I was visiting friends in Leilani and they took me over to meet Bo and walk through his fantastic botanical garden, living proof that Leilani has many special characteristics that help tropical palms grow: volcanic soils with good drainage, tropical climate, and plenty of rain.

After that, I began learning about palms, hoping to plant them around our house. Just to get started, I bought a few from Bo and the rains took care of them ever since.

We live in Orange CA, now and although we’re not ready to move yet, we can take long vacations in Leilani while we pay down the mortgage.

As for Lava Zone 1, Hawaii has special insurance in that protects houses against lava flows. It costs more than regular fire insurance, but mitigates the financial risks. As far as I can tell, no lava actually touched Leilani since 1790, but it's possible that it could, of course. A vent opened up in 1955 a few miles away but it went dormant after a while. Now they mine fertile volcanic cinders that people use for gardening and landscaping. I saw a recent geological study showing Leilani as being unlikely to be touched by lava because it does not sit directly downhill from the active part of the volcano.

Over the last few months, lava has been flowing toward the ocean near Kalapana. Lava has been flowing in that general direction since about 1990.

On the other hand, there is a great hot pond where sea water in an enclosed pool is heated by geothermal springs. The hot pond is good for swimming and socializing.

As Bo said above, there are times in life when you decide to take the plunge and try for something you really want. Leilani appealed to us more than any other area we looked at.

[bgl]

And since we're on the topic of palms...there are actually a couple of different, but related, aspects that make it so exciting to grow palms here; the environment and climate combined not only makes it possible to grow something like (probably) 99% of all palms, but they will also put on growth 12 months of the year. No matter what time of the year, there will be new fronds opening up left and right! These ideal conditions also have the interesting effect of many of the palms dropping seeds, which will self germinate right where they drop.

Two photos with Verschaffeltia splendida volunteer seedlings. First, the "traditional" way, underneath the parent tree, and in the second photo, a seed actually dropped in the crack where the petiole meets the stem/trunk of a Phoenicophorium borsigianum, and it germinated right there. Unfortunately, it's facing a short and precarious life!

[bgl]

Graviton,

Welcome to the IPS Forum, and I'm glad to see you decided to add your first post & photo in this thread! What street are you on here in Leilani (trying to put a real name to your PalmTalk name... ).

Bo-Göran

One more palm related photo - for me, one of the most exciting and rewarding experiences wasn't just to plant palms (even though that was certainly pretty exciting in itself!), but the actual act of carving out an area of the rainforest and transform vision into reality, and then enjoy the subsequent growth. Getting rid of a lot of invasive species, and replacing them with palms was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done. Here's a shot that many of you will be familiar with: looking down our main driveway from our house. Our two little Maltese are doing their 2 o'clock patrol! And to think that, 12 years ago, there was not a single palm in sight here!

[ariscott]

12 years??? Sounds good!! I can't wait to see how my garden would shape up in 12 years. Although, I do have LOTS more trees than you though.

Regards, Ari

[Walter John]

12 years??? Sounds good!! I can't wait to see how my garden would shape up in 12 years. Although, I do have LOTS more trees than you though.

Regards, Ari

at least Ari your palm trunks will have the true look, how can you stand that mossy slimey green look everywhere ?

[ariscott]

at least Ari your palm trunks will have the true look, how can you stand that mossy slimey green look everywhere ?

Use exit mould, Wal....

Regards, Ari

[putu enjula]

Wal,

Wow, you mean there isn't any moss in Oz?? I suppose not... or else you would know that moss is "fuzzy," not "slimy."

We're not the only ones with moss on our palms... these are palms in habitat in Costa Rica...

In Costa Rica you get the extra bonus of highly venomous snakes in your moss... unlike Hawai'i!!

[putu enjula]

As you all may know, we do not have any snakes here...

Is it true Wal that EVERYTHING kills you in Australia? That's the rumor I hear anyway. But hey, that doesn't stop me from wanting to go there someday!

[ariscott]

Nah.... I have been here for 15 years now and I am not dead yet (touch wood) . Australia is not that far from Hawaii, you know.... only a few hours plane away.

Regards, Ari

[putu enjula]

Nah.... I have been here for 15 years now and I am not dead yet (touch wood) . Australia is not that far from Hawaii, you know.... only a few hours plane away.

Regards, Ari

I'm waay over due for a Bali trip... but with these airfare prices I need to save up for a while!

The ideal trip would be to stop by Oz afterwards...

If you ever want to visit Hawaii Ari, let me know

There are virtually no mossy palm trunks in Kaloko mauka (where we live)!

[ariscott]

Nah.... I have been here for 15 years now and I am not dead yet (touch wood) . Australia is not that far from Hawaii, you know.... only a few hours plane away.

Regards, Ari

I'm waay over due for a Bali trip... but with these airfare prices I need to save up for a while!

The ideal trip would be to stop by Oz afterwards...

If you ever want to visit Hawaii Ari, let me know

There are virtually no mossy palm trunks in Kaloko mauka (where we live)!

I need to go home too (my second home... Colin ), maybe I go via Bali and catch up with you.... Better yet, I will go to my parents, drop the girls off and then fly to Bali to catch up with you... . The last time I went to Bali was 2001, unless you call stop over at 2 am a visit. How sad was that!!

Hawaii actually sounds good at the moment, especially the way Australian dollar is, although airfares would be phenomenal too... Pity, I have 2 extra luggage...

Regards, Ari