Epsom Salts

[_Keith]

I was on another board, concerning another plant group (not palms), when this comment was made.

"it's the main reason why the folks in FL and elsewhere spray Epsom Salts on the Palm trees so they green up and don't look so tatty when the tourists arrive."

Is there any validity to this?

Keith

[virtualpalm]

Post deleted in a (failed) effort to erase my stupidity!

Edited September 19, 2011 by virtualpalm

[Stevetoad]

ive used it for greening up ravenea rivularis. works really good on them.

[_Keith]

ive used it for greening up ravenea rivularis. works really good on them.

As a foliar feed, drench, or both?

[mike in kurtistown]

Actually, epsom salts are magnesium sulfate, not manganese sulfate. Magnesium deficiency does lead to yellowing of palm leaves, so application of epsom salts can help to green up palms (new leaves only, old leaves are beyond help).

[Dr. George]

Keith, I have not heard this, and I can't imagine that it would work. Epsom salt is manganese sulfate. It is used to treat manganese deficiency, which manifests as frizzletop in palms -- which, as you probably know, causes browning, frizzly, "crispy" leaflets and leaves. Treating with manganese (a.k.a. Epsom salt) corrects this deficiency fairly quickly and returns the palm's normal coloration to the leaf (which in most cases is green), but that's about as far as it goes. I could be wrong, but it seems like iron or nitrogen would "green up" a palm much more effectively than manganese.

Jody

Epsom salt = magnesium (not manganese) sulfate

Magnesium is the central ion of the chlorophyll ring and a magnesium deficiency results in chlorosis (yellowing of leaves). Some palms, most notably R. rivularis, are sensitive to magnesium levels and frequently require supplementation, especially in marginal soils.

While epsom salt may provide adequate magnesium, a commercial K-Mg product is more commonly used topically in agricultural applications as the Mg may compete with existing K in the soil resulting in a K deficiency in the plant.

gmp

[Stevetoad]

ive used it for greening up ravenea rivularis. works really good on them.

As a foliar feed, drench, or both?

i throw it down just like a normal granular fertilizer. as mike said, only the emerging leaves will be greener.

[Patrick]

I do believe I've read that if you throw down only magnesium, you may wind up eventually with a potassium deficiency. I think you need to do both at the same time. I usually buy a big bag of Sul-Po-Mag from my local nursery and use that.

[Stevetoad]

I do believe I've read that if you throw down only magnesium, you may wind up eventually with a potassium deficiency. I think you need to do both at the same time. I usually buy a big bag of Sul-Po-Mag from my local nursery and use that.

i use it with a 15-5-15 fert on ravenea rivularis only, they always seem to want tons of magnesium. having said all that i also figured out that mine is to close to some overhead sprinklers and now looks like hell. im pretty sure im going to loose this one to rot...oh well i wanted to put a R.glauca there anyway.

[MattyB]

If you're gonna loose a R. rivularis to rot I doubt that R. glauce will do good in that location. R. glauca can rot out if not given some dry time or really good drainage.

BTW, my foot was green and Epsom Salts made the green color go away.

[sur4z]

what would you use on a dypsis leptocheilos? Mine looks sick (light green) but it continues to push up multiple shoots.

[Stevetoad]

If you're gonna loose a R. rivularis to rot I doubt that R. glauce will do good in that location. R. glauca can rot out if not given some dry time or really good drainage.

BTW, my foot was green and Epsom Salts made the green color go away.

your foot must have the same fungus as my rivularis, im glad you got it fixed up. i changed that sprinkler head to a 1/4 round so now it doesnt get hit. im sure im going to loose it anyway. spear opened early with a lot of brown. it looks really bad...too bad for a 12$ plant.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Epsom salts will only green up a plant if its deficient in Magnesium (or sulfur...which is highly unlikely). If you have iron deficiency, for example, Mg won't have any affect. As others have mentioned, K-Mag, Sul-Po-Mag or whatever the local company calls it when they sell Potassium-Magnesium Sulfate is a better choice for application to the soil where Mg and K can be antogonist to one another. Foliar applied Epsom Salts won't hurt anything but its hard to know how much, if any, actually enters the plant tissue. (Tissue tests will be inaccurate because you applied the Mg to the foliage and it'll be detected in the test but you can't tell if its just stuck to the outside of the leaf or if its moved into the tissue). Its generally accepted that the older foliage that has deficiency symptoms cannot be influenced by applications to the root zone or the foliage. The reason for that is because once the yellow is visible in the old foliage the plant is "harvesting" the Mg from the chlorophyll and that can't be rebuilt. Its very common here in FL to find Phoenix palms deficient in both K and Mg. It makes for an ugly close-up.

[Tyrone]

Magnesium deficiency shows up in oider growth first not newer growth. Applied magnesium will show effects from the newest effected deficient leaf back to the oldest leaf. If you have yellowing new growth consider iron deficiency or just straight nitrogen deficiency.

Best regards

Tyrone

[palmislandRandy]

what would you use on a dypsis leptocheilos? Mine looks sick (light green) but it continues to push up multiple shoots.

I have the same problem with one of mine. it grows as well as my others, but is clearly yellower. My issue is iron lockup due to the high PH of an area of my garden. I tried some ones suggestion of "peat pockets". In a 5 gallon bucket I mixed ironite & peat moss, then with a shovel, made deep divots around the dripline & stuffed them with the mixture & watered it in. The idea being the peat would lower the PH enough for the tree to take up some of the iron. Well I had a leaf open about 6 weeks after the first application & it was clearly greener than the previous one. I just did another dose of "peat pockets" & another leaf should be opening any day now. (hopefully greener )

-Randy

[sur4z]

what would you use on a dypsis leptocheilos? Mine looks sick (light green) but it continues to push up multiple shoots.

I have the same problem with one of mine. it grows as well as my others, but is clearly yellower. My issue is iron lockup due to the high PH of an area of my garden. I tried some ones suggestion of "peat pockets". In a 5 gallon bucket I mixed ironite & peat moss, then with a shovel, made deep divots around the dripline & stuffed them with the mixture & watered it in. The idea being the peat would lower the PH enough for the tree to take up some of the iron. Well I had a leaf open about 6 weeks after the first application & it was clearly greener than the previous one. I just did another dose of "peat pockets" & another leaf should be opening any day now. (hopefully greener )

Thanks Randy, I'll give it a try.

-Randy

[Adam from Oz]

OK, I have a R. rivularis and it's green and 2m (6ft+) tall. How much magnesium sulfate should I use and how often to keep it that way? I also use a balanced NPK fertiliser and trace elements.

Cheers,

Adam

[Tyrone]

Just use the NPK fertiliser with trace elements and you'll probably be fine Adam. If the oldest leaves start going yellow but leaving the veins green you have a magnesium deficiency and then I'd apply some magnesium. But to be honest a handful of magnesium sulfate every couple of months watered in well isn't going to hurt anything.

Best regards

Tyrone

[kahili]

Randy, if your soil's PH is that much higher, and you want to lower the PH, the easiest thing to do is to get sulfur pellets and sprinkle them on the ground (or work them into the soil some) and while it tales up to maybe a month to change the PH, it will last around 6 months or more. It will also bring the PH down more effectively than peat. Its always a good idea to have an idea of what the PH is first though, so you have a good idea of how much to apply. If you want to bring the PH down in days, then use sulfuric acid (battery acid -35%) mixed with water and drench the soil. You don't need much of the acid mixed with 5 gallons of water-like a teaspoon.

[palmislandRandy]

Randy, if your soil's PH is that much higher, and you want to lower the PH, the easiest thing to do is to get sulfur pellets and sprinkle them on the ground (or work them into the soil some) and while it tales up to maybe a month to change the PH, it will last around 6 months or more. It will also bring the PH down more effectively than peat. Its always a good idea to have an idea of what the PH is first though, so you have a good idea of how much to apply. If you want to bring the PH down in days, then use sulfuric acid (battery acid -35%) mixed with water and drench the soil. You don't need much of the acid mixed with 5 gallons of water-like a teaspoon.

Thanks Terry, You seem to be an expert on this stuff. I have some soil samples out being tested now. The problem area is around the lake. The "lakes" are man made & the marl dug up was pushed up around the lake. I suspect the PH is pretty high as I find shells & coral rock mixed in an ultra fine whiiteish sand below about 6 inches of top soil. It doesn't drain too well either. If there is a PH issue when I get the results back, I'll try the sulfur pellets.

-Randy

[Turtile]

The sandy soil allows magnesium and potassium to leach very easy in FL. That's why you see so many deficiency problems.

[Adam from Oz]

Just use the NPK fertiliser with trace elements and you'll probably be fine Adam. If the oldest leaves start going yellow but leaving the veins green you have a magnesium deficiency and then I'd apply some magnesium. But to be honest a handful of magnesium sulfate every couple of months watered in well isn't going to hurt anything.

Best regards

Tyrone

Thanks Tyrone.

That makes sense.

Cheers,

Adam

[Big Eye]

Great read! I just picked up a small bag of epsom salt after reading this post. I plan on supplementing with Nutricote since it seems that the nutricote on its own isn't enough (I heard it should though. Maybe I'm not applying enough) Or would a K-Mag fertilizer be better than Nurticote?

Sorry, forgot to add that these palms are in pots for the time being.