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Ken Johnson

Copernicia Candy

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Mandrew968

Here is some more Copernicia "candy" for your enjoyment. Anyone care to guess the species?

Jody

It's always harder in a photo, but it looks like a haus-pita :)

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Jeff Searle

Ken, sorry for being another thread hijacker, but since we have a few Copernicia experts here, I have a couple of questions with regards to 2 plants I got from a well known grower in Hawaii. I got 2 plants which he was told the seeds were C. rigida. Both were of 5g size and both were planted about 2 years ago. The first one is clearly not rigida (?alba variant), however the second one may be a rigida. If it is, I would like to move it with my current change in social status. Firstly, do you think that the second plant is a rigida. If so, would it survive digging if I left a margin 6" bigger than the original 5g hole. I do want to move it as quickly as possible. Thanks!

Oliver

Oliver,

Definitely no C. rigida's, sorry. Too much petiole showing.

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Mandrew968

Ken, sorry for being another thread hijacker, but since we have a few Copernicia experts here, I have a couple of questions with regards to 2 plants I got from a well known grower in Hawaii. I got 2 plants which he was told the seeds were C. rigida. Both were of 5g size and both were planted about 2 years ago. The first one is clearly not rigida (?alba variant), however the second one may be a rigida. If it is, I would like to move it with my current change in social status. Firstly, do you think that the second plant is a rigida. If so, would it survive digging if I left a margin 6" bigger than the original 5g hole. I do want to move it as quickly as possible. Thanks!

Oliver

Oliver,

Definitely no C. rigida's, sorry. Too much petiole showing.

Mr. Searle is right. Also, Copernicia rigida has an unusually large adaxial hastula.

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oliver

Thanks guys, I really didn't think so either. I will take you up on that offer Ken! Spring is wahoo season over here. Some sashimi, and new scenery in the garden and house would be welcome.

Oliver

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Manolitus

And this is my ......................

Anyone, anyone, anyone, anyone.......Bueller, Bueller,Bueller...............

post-1905-061377200 1315946429_thumb.jpg

Manny

PS I provided a hint of what I was told I was buying........

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Manolitus

And this is my ......................

Anyone, anyone, anyone, anyone.......Bueller, Bueller,Bueller...............

post-1905-061377200 1315946429_thumb.jpg

Manny

PS I provided a hint of what I was told I was buying........

Why is my Copernicia sideways ????

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Mandrew968

Are you implying this is a Copernicia ferrisensis sp. sideways?

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Manolitus

Ok. Now we're in business. Here are the 3 in question. So which is which experts out there in Palm Land ???????

post-1905-089279300 1315949720_thumb.jpg post-1905-009671100 1315949759_thumb.jpg

post-1905-042773900 1315949585_thumb.jpg

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amazon exotics

My guess is

1 Hospita

2 Fallaensis

3 Baileyana

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Manolitus

My guess is

1 Hospita

2 Fallaensis

3 Baileyana

EHHHHHHHHHHH. Close but no ceeegar.

Next.

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Ken Johnson

Ok. Now we're in business. Here are the 3 in question. So which is which experts out there in Palm Land ???????

post-1905-089279300 1315949720_thumb.jpg post-1905-009671100 1315949759_thumb.jpg

Dang Manny, 2 and 3 sure look good!

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Ken Johnson

You dont see them like this very often.

post-50-096431100 1315959500_thumb.jpg

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Ken Johnson

This guy has all the fun.

post-50-042172900 1315961273_thumb.jpg

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Mandrew968

Manny the first palm that is a bit tattered is a gigas :winkie:

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Manolitus

Manny the first palm that is a bit tattered is a gigas :winkie:

And the other two ????wink-1.gif

Manny

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Manolitus

You dont see them like this very often.

Or this........We got quite a posting battle brewing here !!

post-1905-097617200 1315964135_thumb.jpg

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Ken Johnson

I have posted this one before for it is a good one.

post-50-034211700 1315995901_thumb.jpg

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Mandrew968

Manny the first palm that is a bit tattered is a gigas :winkie:

And the other two ????wink-1.gif

Manny

Manny, the other two were guessed right--I didn't think I needed to reiterate what others said :) but here they are: gigas fallaensis and baileyana.

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virtualpalm

The answer to my previous post is C. curbeloi, which is rarely seen, especially at that size. Here are a few more nice ones that we recently sold. Their ID should be pretty easy.

Jody

post-1566-091980500 1316005270_thumb.jpg

post-1566-092113100 1316005286_thumb.jpg

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Mandrew968

Jody--very cool! I have never seen this palm before; is it cuban? I am impressed, sir.

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virtualpalm

Which species are you asking about, Andrew? The single photo that I posted yesterday or the three photos from today? In a sense it doesn't matter, I guess, because both species are Cuban in origin.

Jody

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Jeff Searle

The answer to my previous post is C. curbeloi, which is rarely seen, especially at that size. Here are a few more nice ones that we recently sold. Their ID should be pretty easy.

Jody

Jody,

Is the palm in post #35 the C. curbeloi? If so, very nice. Mine is not quite that big, but most likely from the one batch of seed that came in and that I sold plants from. Any C. sueroana?

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trioderob

KEN-

With Copernicia in Florida, how does the whole process work.

1) how do folks there even know about them - on a forum like this there are gurus who read books, see them at other members houses, palm meetings - but the general florida public ?

2) is Copernicia a well known palm there like washingtonia are in southern cali ?

3) are there many mature ones that come for sale there?

4) in Florida what palm does the average joe ask you to plant in their expensive new house when they do the first landscaping on a new home.

maybe just a little insight for the folks on the west coast that never see these type of palms for sale in the large sizes you deal with

Edited by trioderob

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virtualpalm

Oliver, here is a series of photos of a smallish (7'OA) C. rigida we have at our office. You should be able to see some differences between it and your two palms. Of particular note are the very narrow leaves, the very short petiole, and the extremely protracted adaxial hastula extension (I'm guessing that is what it is called).

Jody

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MattyB

I'm just admiring all of these cool Copernicia pics. Thanks guys. I'm no expert but from what I've seen, California grown plants often exhibit more yellowing or orange coloration than the same species grown in a more humid climate like Florida. So maybe a species like C. fallensis would show considerable orange in the petioles when grown here in CA. Hard to know because Len's is the only one I've ever seen here.

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virtualpalm

Jody,

Is the palm in post #35 the C. curbeloi? If so, very nice. Mine is not quite that big, but most likely from the one batch of seed that came in and that I sold plants from. Any C. sueroana?

Yes. This plant is in the Keys but will soon be going to its new home. I don't know where the original owner got the seed/plant from; it's possible that he bought it from you years ago.

I have not seen any C. x sueroana, but if I do I'd be happy to post photos.

Jody

Edited by virtualpalm

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virtualpalm

Matty, check out the two photos that I posted in post #8. Both of them have quite a bit of orange in the petiole. Our Bailey's in that same field have orange petioles as well.

Jody

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Mandrew968

Jody, I think you would be hard pressed to find a baileyana without the orange, in the petiole. As for fallaensis, maybe it's ok for some palms to have orange in them, but the most impressive and maybe the most pure ones I have seen, do not have any(soil conditions could maybe produce orange in the petiole of a fallaensis, but I have never seen a gigas with any color other than that pale olive green).

Trioderob, there are not very many Copernicias of any size in South Florida; I see more Ferrarris than I do Copernicias, down here(though not in my neighborhood). When the average person goes to landscape their new house, they go with Phoenix sylvestris or Roystonea regias(some Bismarckias too). Palms are not nearly as popular here, as they are in Cali. If you want a nice Copernicia, you have to go to specialty nurseries like Mr. Ken Johnson runs. I have never been to Mr. Searle's place, but I'm sure that it too, would be a great place for Copernicias, albeit container grown(don't know if he does field-grown material or not). Coccothrinax crinita is really the only really cool palm that's gone mainstream, and they are only peppered here and there.

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Manolitus

Manny the first palm that is a bit tattered is a gigas :winkie:

And the other two ????wink-1.gif

Manny

Manny, the other two were guessed right--I didn't think I needed to reiterate what others said :) but here they are: gigas fallaensis and baileyana.

Give that man a prize. I know you'd get'm easy. One more picture of just a beautiful C. Fallaensis at my cousin's who by the way gave me the palm bug. There is a little bonus in the picture for those of you obsessed with the beauties Cuba has to offer:

post-1905-043102900 1316025322_thumb.jpg

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MattyB

oh mammy! :drool:

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Mandrew968

Thanks, Manny. Coccothrinax borhidiana--beautiful!

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virtualpalm

Speaking of C. rigida (we were speaking or C. ridiga, weren't we?), here's a 15-footer we sold last year... for your viewing pleasure.

Jody

post-1566-094244600 1316028413_thumb.jpg

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Ken Johnson

Jody, The rigida gets a big thumbs up!

Here is a picture of a Copernicia that may be harder to ID. It looks fishy to me anyway.

TriO, I think Andrew was a bit off in saying palms are more popular in Cali than here. Palm nuts may be more common though :D . The answer to the question about how people get educated about palms I think can be answered by saying that FTBG has had the biggest influence and that the Palm Society, IPS and SFPS has done plenty too. Also many science oriented and or garden oriented people search out info on palms and many end up here on PT. The popularity and demand for specimen Copernicia is as rare as the palms. These things are expensive and I would say that only very wealthy people would buy them, at least the very big old ones. 10 to 20 thousand dollars would be a price range in general. So if a homeowner wants big palms and if they get a landscaper/ designer/ architect that educates them about Copernicia and IF they want to have some then we can get down to business.

post-50-013474500 1316033759_thumb.jpg

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oliver

Jody, may I ask what the ballpark price was for that big ridida? (just so Ken doesn't try to soak me when he brings me one in the spring - although even Ken could not likely squish that one into his Dukes of Hazzard pickup)

Oliver

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virtualpalm

Hey, Oliver. I'll send you a PM with the price.

Jody

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rozpalm

This is a great informative thread on a great palm genus. Here are two palms that were given to me years ago by Larry Dietrich. At the time when he gave them to me he left it to me to figure out what they were. My guess is that the silver one is C.prunifera and that the other one is C.rigida. Did I guess right or am I way off? :D

C.prunifera?

post-1490-038996800 1316047979_thumb.jpgpost-1490-050605100 1316047994_thumb.jpg

C.rigida?

post-1490-085057100 1316048017_thumb.jpg

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virtualpalm

Hey, Ron. I agree that this is a great topic. It sure is nice not to be talking/reading about Dypsis for a change, now isn't it? I don't believe the first one is C. prunifera. The armament on the petiole is more like that of C. hospita or even a very blue C. baileyana... but I would go with the former as a best guess. The second is almost certainly C. rigida.

Jody

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trioderob

Jody, The rigida gets a big thumbs up!

Here is a picture of a Copernicia that may be harder to ID. It looks fishy to me anyway.

TriO, I think Andrew was a bit off in saying palms are more popular in Cali than here. Palm nuts may be more common though :D . The answer to the question about how people get educated about palms I think can be answered by saying that FTBG has had the biggest influence and that the Palm Society, IPS and SFPS has done plenty too. Also many science oriented and or garden oriented people search out info on palms and many end up here on PT. The popularity and demand for specimen Copernicia is as rare as the palms. These things are expensive and I would say that only very wealthy people would buy them, at least the very big old ones. 10 to 20 thousand dollars would be a price range in general. So if a homeowner wants big palms and if they get a landscaper/ designer/ architect that educates them about Copernicia and IF they want to have some then we can get down to business.

KEN-

you are right CALI has the best palm Nutz...

can anyone lend me 10 to 20 big ones ?

Edited by trioderob

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Ken Johnson

Hey, Ron. I agree that this is a great topic. It sure is nice not to be talking/reading about Dypsis for a change, now isn't it? I don't believe the first one is C. prunifera. The armament on the petiole is more like that of C. hospita or even a very blue C. baileyana... but I would go with the former as a best guess. The second is almost certainly C. rigida.

Jody

Hold the presses. Jody could you please take a closer look at the one you think is rigida in Rons post? BTW The first does look like hospita although from first glance the armament looks kinds small.

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virtualpalm

Hey, Ken. I took another look (it is hard to take a closer look because of the resolution of the photo), and I don't see anything that would suggest anything other than C. rigida. What makes you think it might not be?

Jody

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