"baggy method" do’s and don’ts????

[Tomw]

OK, I'm trying to propagate some seed using the “baggy method” and I have some questions. I know from reading post that you place the seeds in a Ziploc baggy with sphagnum moss and some water. I also know that the bag and contents need to be kept warm. My question is, how warm? Do I leave it outside where it can get some filtered sun, or halve day sun, or full day sun. I did a search and found lots of topics that talked about using the “baggy method” but no do’s and don’ts of the baggy method. Any help would be appreciated!!!

[MattyB]

Hi Tom,

I've found the baggy method to be a bit problematic due to problems with rot. So first and foremost you need to clean and sterilize your seeds and sterilize your medium. I've found that 100% perlite works best as it's light, holds plenty of moisture and is already sterile so no need to do any additional sterilizing. Getting the moisture content right is a bit tricky but basically you just want the baggie to be humid inside, not wet. Less moisture is better I've found. Keep it in a dark, mildly warm spot like an upper shelf in a closet or attic, or on top of your refridgerator. Also, soaking the seeds in a fungicide is wise. Some people bury the seeds in the medium, I just set them on top, both methods seem to work.

[Tomw]

Matty,

I wouldn’t have thought of using the perlite. I’ll repack the seeds tonight using 100% perlite and get them in a shady spot, probably under my potting bench. Thanks!

[paulgila]

i thought i have heard that on top of yer water-heater is a good spot,since its usually dark & warm.

[Tomw]

I’m thinking on top of my beer refrigerator in the garage should be dark and warm!

[paulgila]

i dont think you have to leave em in the bag for long,just enough to germinate,then plant em--less chance of rot that way. maybe someone else who has more

experience with it can confirm...anyone except mattyb.

[MattyB]

I've kept them in my oven, since I have a pilot light in my oven and it's always about 85F in there. I put a note on the door saying, "seeds inside, remove before turning on oven, that means you babe!"

[paulgila]

i asked you not to call me that on palmtalk!

[realarch]

I've had great success with the baggie method with very little rot. I use sphagnum moss and big zip lock bags. I usually wet the moss and wring as much moisture out as I can so it's just damp.

I make sure the seeds are really clean and dry and then just dump them in the bag. I usually don't use any fungicide, but have tried it on occasion and can't really tell any difference. I lose very few to rot, lucky

I guess. In my experience, if I plant right after germination the results aren't very good, but if I let the seeds develop a couple of good roots, even the first leaf, I usually get a healthy plant. Since I'm not a

commercial grower, I get more plants than I can use, so I can pick the healthier most well developed seeds after germination to plant and get rid of the rest. Maybe I get good a propagation rate because of the

freshness of the seed, but I've used the same method with seeds from RPS which took forever to be delivered and had great success. I usually put the baggies on the top shelf in the closet where I just leave them

until I see some roots and some green. (of course being here in Hawaii, no need for water heaters, ovens. or heating pads) The moss stays moist even after a few months and I rarely have to rewet. I lose many more

seed to inviability than to rot.

[John in Andalucia]

What species are you germinating? Some palm seeds rot quicker than others. Some benefit from barely-moist compost in a cool place. Perlite is good if your seeds are tiny and hard to find in a bag of sphagnum moss, or if they develop fragile and fast growing roots that can be difficult to untangle from the moss. Tell us what your are sprouting, and I'm sure someone will come forward with a case study for whatever species you have. Plus, we like to know! Personally, I never tire of seeing photos of seeds being germinated.

[Tomw]

I’m trying to germinating Bismarckia nobilis silver form and Veitchia montgomeryana seeds.

[MattyB]

Tom, I would sow the bizzie in individual pots due to the aggressive and sensitive roots, eliminating the need to untangle them later.

[John in Andalucia]

Totally agree on the Bismarckia. Once your seeds have sprouted, you have only a matter of days before the sinker root becomes long enough to snap if handled without due care. Plant Bismarckia in deep pots for the best results. I used sections of drainpipe for mine. The bonus here, is that you can slide the plant up the pipe and pack more soil in the end after it has grown a couple of leaves. That's to enable the stem base to see the air, which if the seed is surface sown, will develop at least 9 inches below soil level! I eventually moved mine into 14" deep grow bags once the root system was strong enough. Those lengths of drain are about 22" long.

Whatever you do, don't leave your Bismarckia pots in direct contact with Mother Earth. Bismarckia roots will burrow away into the ground before you know it.

[Tomw]

Thanks a lot for the comments! That’s great information a bout the Bismarckia’s; I love the idea of the drainpipes. Again, thanks for the help!!!

[Tomw]

Thanks a lot for the comments! That’s great information a bout the Bismarckia’s; I love the idea of the drainpipes. Again, thanks for the help!!!

[Nigel]

I second what others have said, the big DONT is too much water. Needs to be barely moist after soaking the seeds.

[CharlieM]

Well my wife and I don't use the "Baggie method". Since we are new to palms and don't know any better we took a variety of seeds, soaked them to remove the outer skin and then soak them again for 48 hours and set the seeds in 4" pots or trays and lay them out in the sun or under the porch. We used a 50/50 mix of soil and cinder. So far we have successfully germinated every type of seed we have tried. Most to date have taken about 45-60 days to sprout. I would guess that we have a 90% success rate so far.

Charlie

[Cristóbal]

All my palms i germinate with seeds in the bags.

I have bismarckia nobilis, chambeyronia macrocarpa, brahea armata, licualas peltata/grande, heterospathe glauca, roystonea regia, howea forestiana, carpentaria acuminata, dypsis lastelliana/leptochelios/decaryi/lutescens, basellina pancheri, kentiopsis oliviformis, chameadora elegans, ptychosperma elegans, adonidia merrili, hyophorbes laugenicaulis/verschaffelti. (and also 3 cocos nucifera but you dont use bags for them).

I use the coco fibers for germinateing the seeds, this you can buy in the stores for pets. The best bags are of the thick plastic for freezers and not with the plastic thing on the top to close them. You want the bags with 3 lines on the top to close.

I like the coco fibers for it is more easy to control the humiditey in the bags. My process for the seeds is this:

1. Put seeds in water for 2-3 days, you change the water every day.

2. Dry the seeds with paper towels than put them in the fungicide daconil 100% for 10 minutes, than dry them again with paper towels.

3. Break the coco fibers and put in water and boil for 10 minutes, this to make them sterile.

4. When the coco fibers are now cool you have the seeds and bags ready. With the hand you take some of the coco fibers and squeeze the water. You dont want it wet, only moist. If you squeeze with the hand and only 2-3 drops go out, this is what you want.

5. I dont put the seeds on top of the coco fibers i put them in the middle of the fibers.

If you do this in this way you are not to have any problem of the fungus. The temperature you want is diferent for each type of seed. Some seeds germinate good at 32-33C and other palms germinate more better at 24-25C. And also have patience. Some seeds like howea forestiana dont germinate for one year.

I dont have problems to germinate the bismarckia nobilis in the bags. In the last year i germinate about 60 bismarckia in this way. But you cant leave them in there for long time, and only put 3 seeds in each bag. When you see the white root in the bags and it is about 5 centimeters long take it out of the bags - BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE ROOTS IF YOU BREAK IT THE PALM IS TO DIE - and put them in the tall pots as John in Andalucia says.

If you make some small boxes of wood and put the heat pad under them with control thermostat for the temperature you can can germinate them easy.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Cristóbal

[PalmTreeDude]

See how the water is condensing inside the bag? Is that a sign of the soil (perlite and peat moss) being too moist? I felt it with my finger and it just feels barely damp, but then it always does this. Does anyone else baggys with palm seeds in it do this (where the water condenses inside the baggy on it)? 

[John in Andalucia]

Of equal concern is that the soil may be dry on the other side of the bag closest to the heat source. It's the only issue I have with the baggie method, in that the moisture level becomes inconsistent. Just shake the bag and roll it around to absorb all the condensation, then when sealing the bag, roll it up like a log to expel the excess air and keep it like that. Using a course germination mix, there'll still be plenty of oxygen around the seeds, but there will be no gap for warm air to creep out and condense against the plastic.

[John in Andalucia]

On 11/07/2011, 21:50:05, John in Andalucia said:

Totally agree on the Bismarckia. Once your seeds have sprouted, you have only a matter of days before the sinker root becomes long enough to snap if handled without due care. Plant Bismarckia in deep pots for the best results. I used sections of drainpipe for mine. The bonus here, is that you can slide the plant up the pipe and pack more soil in the end after it has grown a couple of leaves. That's to enable the stem base to see the air, which if the seed is surface sown, will develop at least 9 inches below soil level! I eventually moved mine into 14" deep grow bags once the root system was strong enough. Those lengths of drain are about 22" long.

 

 

 

 

 

Whatever you do, don't leave your Bismarckia pots in direct contact with Mother Earth. Bismarckia roots will burrow away into the ground before you know it.

Wow, I miss those days. 

[Matt in OC]

Does anyone reuse their medium from the baggie method or are you worried about fungus?