Do we qualify as subtropical yet?

[SubTropicRay]

I said citrus is a good sub-tropical gauge plant not tropical. I'd throw Avocado and Guava in that same discussion. Mango is marginal.

[Tyrone]

Again avacado and guava do well here, and mangos can get quite large here. Late fruiters compared to the tropics though.

Best regards

Tyrone

[SubTropicRay]

Tyrone,

Other good subtropical indicators are Lychee and Longan.

[Tyrone]

Lychee and Longan do grow here, but they're not a very common tree.

[Bobster]

Lychee and Longan do grow here, but they're not a very common tree.

Strangely enough, in Perth's Swan Valley, I had much more success growing subtropical fruits such as paw paw, mango and macadamia than I have here in Noosa. Over here, everything eats the fruit before we get to it. Possums, little long-tailed marsupials ( okay. rats. ) fruit flies etc. make fruit and vegetable growing extremely difficult.

[happ]

I said citrus is a good sub-tropical gauge plant not tropical. I'd throw Avocado and Guava in that same discussion. Mango is marginal.

Sorry Ray, I didn't read your distinction between tropical and sub-tropical. But even to refer to California as "subtropical" is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. There are commercial mango and macadamia groves in southern California but papaya is quite marginal and lychee and longan are even less viable. But avocado and guava do very well.

[SubTropicRay]

It's hard to include a Mediterranean climate in with the word sub-tropical. When you think of sub tropical, I also associate it with a distinct and somewhat pronounced rainy season. I think SoCal definitely has sub tropical temps but perhaps some other defining factors are missing. But really who cares, you can grow lots of stuff there and that's all that matters.

Incidentally, check out the inside flap of A.B. Graf's books Tropica or Exotica. He's got a world map with lines defining what he considers subtropical. I think SoCal is within that boundary. Graf's subtropical limits are much less inclusive than Koppen's range.

[Tyrone]

Subtropical climates can be Mediteranean climates (dry summer), but not all Mediteranean climates are subtropical. "Dry subtropical " defines my area, but go 100km south and its still Mediteranean but not subtropical.

Best regards

Tyrone

[SubTropicRay]

Tyrone, I definitely think the Australian west coast is subtropical at your latitude. How is the extreme southwestern coast?

[Tyrone]

The extreme southwest is a very mild climate and along the south coast as you progressively get away from the west coast it is a wetter climate at least until the Walpole/Denmark area (approx 1200mm/year), then as you progress further east towards Esperance the rainfall steadily drops off again. In the Albany/Denmark area frosts don't exist on the coast, but a few kms inland they do. Winters are on average 6C min to 16C max (like southern NSW) and summers are 14C min to 22C max so not much swing through the seasons. It's an environment where you don't need air conditioning in summer and most people don't have it. Most of the breezes are off the southern ocean and they're always humid. Humidity is always high down there unless they get a northerly in summer which pumps drier air off the continent and it's these events that can cause the temp to go over 40C in summer. However even on a 40C day, the night air drops the temp dramatically and the next day can be back to 22C and cloudy with the wind change. Even in a dry summer, the south coast will record at least some precipitation per fortnight. It's still Mediteranean down there, but it's starting to tend to be more Oceanic due to the very strong influence of the ocean that moderates temps. To me, coming from Perth where summers are always hot, a trip to the south coast in summer can be a dreary freezing experience. I often need to rug up down there in summer. The temp difference over 250 miles is about 10C. If Albany gets 25C, Perth will get 35C with a minimum not far off Albany's maximum at times.

As far as palms are concerned, Howeas look fantastic, and Butia's look great down there too. Dypsis decipiens likes the climate too as well as Livistona australis. No Mangos down there though.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Nick1985]

I would say if you can grow pineapple, bananas, mangos, guavas and papayas you are humid subtropical. Mediterranean is different in that the winter rains and cold can kill the tropical plants. Perth seems to be a fair bit off the standard med climate and much warmer than most comparisons in the northern hemisphere.