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Mike Evans

Butianut Update

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Mike Evans

I acquired this as a Butia x cocos hybrid. It was hybridized from a very knowledgeable Butia x Syagrus hybridizer. This is 1 of only a handful that survived. It is still small (7 gal), & I am waiting to see how it ends up looking. It is definitely different from the standard Mule, in that it went pinnate while still small & immature. The few others that have survived in FL are larger because they were bumped up to 7 gal sooner & were grown in more Sun.

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post-112-012852700 1305843442_thumb.jpg

post-112-083183000 1305843445_thumb.jpg

post-112-069236800 1305843449_thumb.jpg

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Stevetoad

i cant wait to see what traits it will get. anyone ever grow one of these before? how hardy are they? :drool: i smell another cali coconut debate a brewin...

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Nigel

It looks like a pure Butia to me, sorry to say it.

I tried this cross and produced 1 seed. The seed is just sprouting now, i wont be surprised if it comes up pure butia but we all live in hope.. I guess a good sign is that it germinated fast.

Edited by Nigel

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gyuseppe

It looks like a pure Butia to me, sorry to say it.

sorry Mike,yes also for me are Butia

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Tampa Scott

Looks more Butia like to me also. I would think Butianut would look close to this....

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Mandrew968

...

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Nigel

Scott that is a stunning plant .... the glossy leaf colour is a dead giveaway before you even start to look at the leaf form.

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Mike Evans

Scott did you hybridize the one you posted, yourself? I have to admit, that looks pretty good!

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ErikSJI

@ Scott. Can we get a photo of the base of that tree. It looks fantastic.

Also if Mikes were pure Butia would it not be forming thorns by now? Thanks for posting Mike.

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ErikSJI

Old photo of when my Butia X Cocos was still alive.

From left to right.

Butia X syagrus - Butia Capitata - Butia X Cocos.

post-1930-019656700 1305910927_thumb.jpg

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tank

Assuming pains were made to avoid contamination, you would think that most of the plants that were produced are the real deal. Again, assuming no contamination.

I think someone should send me one of those 7 gal butianuts and let me try it out in N. Florida. insert smiley/silly emoticon

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ErikSJI

Isolation is of utmost importance.

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Nigel

My last 18 months working with hybridisation has been successful , but so far I cant say i ever achieved perfect sterility. To date my hybrids have been good without contamination, but its quite a surprise to me given the obstacles.

Ants and small insects always get inside the bag. The slightest hole and bees are inside. At time of pollinating swarms of bees arrive. Hand pollination is impossible to keep sterile. The bags need to be changed because of high humidity inside and when it rains everything is sodden inside and outside, and changing bags is a festival for bees when the aroma of all that nectar is released.

Maybe you guys have perfected techniques but for me I could never say it was 100% sterile.

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ErikSJI

My last 18 months working with hybridisation has been successful , but so far I cant say i ever achieved perfect sterility. To date my hybrids have been good without contamination, but its quite a surprise to me given the obstacles.

Ants and small insects always get inside the bag. The slightest hole and bees are inside. At time of pollinating swarms of bees arrive. Hand pollination is impossible to keep sterile. The bags need to be changed because of high humidity inside and when it rains everything is sodden inside and outside, and changing bags is a festival for bees when the aroma of all that nectar is released.

Maybe you guys have perfected techniques but for me I could never say it was 100% sterile.

What kind of bag are you using?

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Nigel

eric I use plastic bags.

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ErikSJI

bingo.

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Stevetoad

Would cheese cloth work? I can get it 3 feet wide.. Couldn't you make a bag out of that. It's mesh it really tight and It would allow air movement and keep the humidity down. Kinda like the bags they use on date palms out in the desert to keep the birds from picking at them... Just a thought.

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ErikSJI

Would cheese cloth work? I can get it 3 feet wide.. Couldn't you make a bag out of that. It's mesh it really tight and It would allow air movement and keep the humidity down. Kinda like the bags they use on date palms out in the desert to keep the birds from picking at them... Just a thought.

Take some pollen dump it in a cheese cloth bag and shake it and you can see pollen coming out. If it can come out then it can go in. Cheese cloth is good if there are no other palms in the area it will keep the critters out anyways.

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Nigel

bingo.

thanks for the informative reply

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Tampa Scott

Guys the palm pictured was not a Butia x Coconut, but a hybrid that came up under my Butia. Coconuts do not live in my part of FL so no way it could have been pollinated by a Coconut. It only looks as it had. I made a stupid mistake and the palm is no longer around.

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Tampa Scott

@ Scott. Can we get a photo of the base of that tree. It looks fantastic.

Also if Mikes were pure Butia would it not be forming thorns by now? Thanks for posting Mike.

I see no thorns on my Butias at that size plant.

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swolf

Nigel, in the 'Jubutyagrus' thread, I believe Tim Hopper said he uses (hypoallergenic) pillow cases, which breathe without allowing contaminating pollen to enter. That seems ideal for the post-pollenation phase, whereas the clear plastic bags are useful pre-pollenation. That's my takeaway.

Steve

St. Augustine, FL

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ErikSJI

bingo.

thanks for the informative reply

Sorry Nigel. I was still waiting for more replies.

Please contact me Via message and I can solve all the problems you are having.

Who can test the Butia X Cocos tree? Should I contact UCF or USF. We can bring one in for testing.

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freakypalmguy

Looking at the size of Mikes possible Butianut, if it's not a hybrid, it should start to produce armament within the next six months to a year.

I use hypoallergenic pillow cases to hybridize, but as Nigel stated, it is very tough to keep the small critters out. Where the case is tied tightly at the base of the inflo. there is still some small gaps. I try to keep an insecticide soaked rag wrapped around the base of the inflorescence to keep them out. It's still not 100%.

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ErikSJI

Looking at the size of Mikes possible Butianut, if it's not a hybrid, it should start to produce armament within the next six months to a year.

I use hypoallergenic pillow cases to hybridize, but as Nigel stated, it is very tough to keep the small critters out. Where the case is tied tightly at the base of the inflo. there is still some small gaps. I try to keep an insecticide soaked rag wrapped around the base of the inflorescence to keep them out. It's still not 100%.

I am still not going to let this cat out of the bag. So you are saying you have had a few strays? In your batch that were not true hybrids?

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freakypalmguy

Looking at the size of Mikes possible Butianut, if it's not a hybrid, it should start to produce armament within the next six months to a year.

I use hypoallergenic pillow cases to hybridize, but as Nigel stated, it is very tough to keep the small critters out. Where the case is tied tightly at the base of the inflo. there is still some small gaps. I try to keep an insecticide soaked rag wrapped around the base of the inflorescence to keep them out. It's still not 100%.

I am still not going to let this cat out of the bag. So you are saying you have had a few strays? In your batch that were not true hybrids?

Actually no, my Butianuts are still too young to tell, they are still three and four leaf, strap leafers. So I guess my statement of "not 100%" is not accurate in my case. Only time will tell. But I have received hybrids before, from someone who is very careful and a well respected hybridizer, that turned out to not be a hybrids.

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ErikSJI

Looking at the size of Mikes possible Butianut, if it's not a hybrid, it should start to produce armament within the next six months to a year.

I use hypoallergenic pillow cases to hybridize, but as Nigel stated, it is very tough to keep the small critters out. Where the case is tied tightly at the base of the inflo. there is still some small gaps. I try to keep an insecticide soaked rag wrapped around the base of the inflorescence to keep them out. It's still not 100%.

I am still not going to let this cat out of the bag. So you are saying you have had a few strays? In your batch that were not true hybrids?

Actually no, my Butianuts are still too young to tell, they are still three and four leaf, strap leafers. So I guess my statement of "not 100%" is not accurate in my case. Only time will tell. But I have received hybrids before, from someone who is very careful and a well respected hybridizer, that turned out to not be a hybrids.

What if there was a way you can take the guessing game out of it? No Guessing. When pollinating is done. That is exactly what it is. This is exactly what you get. Would you be interested? Think about it. Your a highly regarded pollinator and you are second guessing yourself. How about not having to worry about that?

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Nigel

Look, I know that a lot of you guys use different bagging methods, and plastic bags give problems. However, I get good seed set , almost 100% on one tree ,so the bag is not detrimental to pollination.

Furthermore, I am not getting ( so far ) wronguns in my batches like some other hybridisers, they all are coming good.

Therefore I prefer to battle with humidity and stay with my plastic bags because I know they keep the alien pollen out.

Can we see pics of these 3 to 4 leaf butianuts please ??

Edited by Nigel

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freakypalmguy

Looking at the size of Mikes possible Butianut, if it's not a hybrid, it should start to produce armament within the next six months to a year.

I use hypoallergenic pillow cases to hybridize, but as Nigel stated, it is very tough to keep the small critters out. Where the case is tied tightly at the base of the inflo. there is still some small gaps. I try to keep an insecticide soaked rag wrapped around the base of the inflorescence to keep them out. It's still not 100%.

I am still not going to let this cat out of the bag. So you are saying you have had a few strays? In your batch that were not true hybrids?

Actually no, my Butianuts are still too young to tell, they are still three and four leaf, strap leafers. So I guess my statement of "not 100%" is not accurate in my case. Only time will tell. But I have received hybrids before, from someone who is very careful and a well respected hybridizer, that turned out to not be a hybrids.

What if there was a way you can take the guessing game out of it? No Guessing. When pollinating is done. That is exactly what it is. This is exactly what you get. Would you be interested? Think about it. Your a highly regarded pollinator and you are second guessing yourself. How about not having to worry about that?

Absolutely interested.

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freakypalmguy

Look, I know that a lot of you guys use different bagging methods, and plastic bags give problems. However, I get good seed set , almost 100% on one tree ,so the bag is not detrimental to pollination.

Furthermore, I am not getting ( so far ) wronguns in my batches like some other hybridisers, they all are coming good.

Therefore I prefer to battle with humidity and stay with my plastic bags because I know they keep the alien pollen out.

Can we see pics of these 3 to 4 leaf butianuts please ??

I agree, if it's working for you, stick with it. I could probably use plastic, as I live in a very dry area.

I'll take a few pictures later when the sun comes up.

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Tampa Scott

The following pictures I am posting are from seedlings from Butia that I have achieved natural BxS hybrids from. These seedlings are grown in full sun, show no armament but look like Butia to me and go on the compost pile.

Edited by Tampa Scott

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Tampa Scott

and...

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Tampa Scott

should I wait for composting?

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Tampa Scott

?????

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kelen

Looks more Butia like to me also. I would think Butianut would look close to this....

wow! It's really wonderful! I'll try my first cross this year;

Is it possible cross Cocos x Syagrus romanzoffiana?

thanks

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edbrown_III

Mark Heath had what I thought was one. When I get b ack from AL I am going to visit and see how it looks after 2 years.

Best regards

Ed

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freakypalmguy

Here's a couple pics of my seedlings, germinated 2/10.

post-1261-079611100 1306011358_thumb.jpg

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freakypalmguy

#2

post-1261-029187400 1306011442_thumb.jpg

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freakypalmguy

and 1 I mercilessly put in the ground shortly after sprouting. It's in full all day sun.

post-1261-030785700 1306011685_thumb.jpg

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Nigel

and 1 I mercilessly put in the ground shortly after sprouting. It's in full all day sun.

post-1261-030785700 1306011685_thumb.jpg

These also look very much like little Butias ...... I guess its too early too tell and maybe they really do look this way.

Fingers crossed eh.

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