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hydrophyte

?? Is this C. cataractarum ??

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hydrophyte

I picked up this NOID plant today at the local nursery and I wonder what it is. Does it look to you like Chamaedorea cataractarum?

10-v-11-chamaedorea-cataractarum-i-m.jpg

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10-v-11-chamaedorea-cataractarum-ii-m.jpg

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10-v-11-chamaedorea-cataractarum-iii-m.jpg

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Got Palms

Yes, great indoor plant!

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hydrophyte

Hey thanks!

I have heard that there is a compact form C. cataractarum. Does anybody know anything about that?

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gyuseppe

does not seem like Chamaedorea cataractarum

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paulgila

its dypsis lutescens!!!

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hydrophyte

Oh, that's not such a good plant. I suppose I won't be returning to purchase any more of them.

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Tropicgardener

Yeah definately a pesky Golden Cane Palm :blink:

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LauraAnu

Lots of Dypsis Luscetens crammed into that pot :blink:

Laura

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aussiearoids

They have a distinctive base even when small .. will get a pic tomorrow .. but it looks as if someone has split up a clump or pair of palms :unsure: and it still has not straightened up yet :blink:

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hydrophyte

I'm surprised that it showed up at this garden center. I suppose whatever grower from Florida just thought they could sneak it through as a "Neanthe bella".

I have no use for plants I can't keep very well as houseplants. This $2 plant will go straight to the compost heap.

Edited by hydrophyte

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tjwalters

Plant it as an annual.

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paulgila

what makes a "cat palm" any better than d.lutescens? :unsure:

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hydrophyte

Not much, but C. cataractarum is what I was after.

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BigFrond

IMHO, I believe that the D. lutescens is 100 times better than C. cataractarum. I have no interest in the C. cataractarum.

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MattyB

Dypsis lutescens is a fine house plant if given enough light. Even part day full sun through a window is fine. Those stretchy greenhouse leaves will have to burn off, but the new growth will love the high light levels that a large window can offer.

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DoomsDave

Hydrophyte:

Why don't you grow your new D. lutescens anyway?

It's not as good a houseplant as C. cataractarum, but it will still grow.

You'll likely end up with one plant, since they're clumpers by nature and the strongest one will crowd out the rest.

Lutes need more light than cats, but I know you can get it to grow, too.

Hmm. I might have a spare cat to send you . . . .

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hydrophyte

Thanks everybody. I suppose I was just turned off by the D. lutescens because I ran into so much hate for it on the Internet. I read a couple of things that described it as a bad houseplant(??). I would like to repot it and try it out if you think it might do OK.

I want to get some more C. cataractarum because I wish to experiment with it as a riparium (emergent fish tank) plant. I also got a few from Tampa Scott and they are rooting really well in their riparium planters.

Do you think that C. lutescens might grow in a riparium? I could try it out this way too easily enough. Can D. lutescens handle long-term wet conditions?

It sounds as though C. cataractarum is an unpopular plant. What undesirable features does it have?

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paulgila

both of these palms suffer from the fact that they tend to be a bit too "common" for some people.

i am growing both of them. :winkie:

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hydrophyte

I am less concerned about that issue for this application, but I most definitely want to get some more unusual selections for my little collection project!

I have heard that C. cataractarum is highly susceptible to spider mites. Have you observed this?

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paulgila

i am only growing it outside so its not really a problem for me.

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MattyB

Every palm that I've potted in gravel and set the pot down in my parents pond has done excellent. I see no reason for D. lut or C. cat to differ. People often have problems with house plants due to poor cultural practices.

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BigFrond

For the aquarium, you can try Spathiphyllum (peace lily). They will last in the water for a long time. I've used it before. As for the palm, I don't think they will last quite as long. The peace lily will stay green and it will look like an Amazonian sword plant but bigger.

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TikiRick

:blink: I am growing both...outdoors. Remember that the 'cat' palm originates from a swampy environment, whereas the "areca" or "golden cane" palm from a fairly dry place.

Here is South Florida, the "areca" is not considered to be attractive by many. I keep mine trimmed up to about 12-15 canes or so, keeping the suckers trimmed back.

The "cat" palm I attempted to plant into a mucky area, but I have had one indoors, and although they do well, mine did succumb to mealy bug and spider mites.

But then again, they are pretty much disposible palms here. They are offered at the big box stores for $5. I know, wasteful, but, it's not worth buying the chemicals to keep it alive. Toss it and buy another.

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hydrophyte

Every palm that I've potted in gravel and set the pot down in my parents pond has done excellent. I see no reason for D. lut or C. cat to differ. People often have problems with house plants due to poor cultural practices.

I have been trying to get species that are true water-associated palms, but maybe I'll try the D. lutescens in the fish tank too.

For the aquarium, you can try Spathiphyllum (peace lily). They will last in the water for a long time. I've used it before. As for the palm, I don't think they will last quite as long. The peace lily will stay green and it will look like an Amazonian sword plant but bigger.

I am using these plants for riparium setups, where the plants are rooted in planters that hang inside the fish tank and then the foliage grows up out of the water. Spathiphyllum, by the way, is one of the best riparium plants.

Here is a little riparium setup that I did in an 11-gallon tank with baby panda bamboo (Pogonatherum paniceum).

10-iv-11-tank-i-m.jpg

There are fish in there too but they are hiding.

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hydrophyte

Hey while I have everybody's attention maybe you can give me some feedback on a few other ideas for ripariums.

This morning I jotted down these apparently water-associated species in my other thread...

  1. Arenga caudata
  2. Chamaedorea seifrizii
  3. C. pausiflora
  4. Geonoma brongniartii http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5469
  5. G. macrostachys
  6. Hydriastele rheophytica
  7. Pinanga rivularis and various other Pinanga

I wanted to look into these some more based on their size (small) and commercial availability.

Has anybody ever had any experience with these in this list?

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MattyB

I don't think you need to worry about them being water species. The fish tank has fresh oxygenated water, what more could they want? Is it heated? Even better. Actually I just remembered, I did try D. lutescens in my parents pond and it did fine. It loved it so much that it outgrew the space and they had to remove it and plant it in the ground. Archontophoenix, Ravenea, and Pritchardia also worked great. Keep in mind, the water drops into the low 50's in the winter and they didn't show any signs of stress. Since you're keeping it indoors I'd stay away from the more tender species like Pinanga and Hydrastele and stick to stuff like Chamaedoreas, Rhapis, Dypsis lut., Ravenea rivularis, Howea, you know, all the stuff that's readily available and already do well as house plants.

Palms can be suseptible to spider mites and meally bug indoors, and since you don't want to use any pesticides due to the aquarium, you'll want to be able to spray the leaves off with a hose. Not sure how you're gonna work that.

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hydrophyte

I don't think you need to worry about them being water species. The fish tank has fresh oxygenated water, what more could they want? Is it heated? Even better. Actually I just remembered, I did try D. lutescens in my parents pond and it did fine. It loved it so much that it outgrew the space and they had to remove it and plant it in the ground. Archontophoenix, Ravenea, and Pritchardia also worked great. Keep in mind, the water drops into the low 50's in the winter and they didn't show any signs of stress. Since you're keeping it indoors I'd stay away from the more tender species like Pinanga and Hydrastele and stick to stuff like Chamaedoreas, Rhapis, Dypsis lut., Ravenea rivularis, Howea, you know, all the stuff that's readily available and already do well as house plants.

Palms can be suseptible to spider mites and meally bug indoors, and since you don't want to use any pesticides due to the aquarium, you'll want to be able to spray the leaves off with a hose. Not sure how you're gonna work that.

Thanks! I will definitely try the D. lutescesn in the tank.

While prioritizing the water-associated palms for growing in ripariums I in part hope to get the selections most likely to grow well in the water, but I also like to use the ecology of the species to inform the set up. The true water-associated plants are more compelling that way because they are more likely to grow in a situation (distantly) resembling the fish tank out in nature and in association with fish and other aquatic organisms.

I imagine that there really are a lot of palms that would grow OK in a riparium, but I bet there are others that need good drainage that just wouldn't make it. Those riparium planters are mostly enclosed plastic cups and I think that the gravel media inside is in fact oxygen poor. I have tried quite a few houseplants in ripairums and the ones that performed the best were the ones that really do live in wet areas out in nature (e.g., Spathiphyllum, Pilea, Colocasia etc.).

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aussiearoids

Noticed this feature years ago and wondered if the seller had divided a clump up for resale :unsure: apparently not .

post-354-030906000 1305066097_thumb.jpg

These are from seeds I got from Jason in WA ages ago ..

Where is he ?

Gave a bunch of these to people who wanted to grow some palms for cut foliage .post-354-063726600 1305066351_thumb.jpg

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tjwalters

I am less concerned about that issue for this application, but I most definitely want to get some more unusual selections for my little collection project!

I have heard that C. cataractarum is highly susceptible to spider mites. Have you observed this?

I think just the opposite. I've never had an problem with mites on C. cataractarum, but often on D. lutescens. In fact, C. cataractarum seems quite pest resistant.

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hydrophyte

I think just the opposite. I've never had an problem with mites on C. cataractarum, but often on D. lutescens. In fact, C. cataractarum seems quite pest resistant.

Thanks for sharing this observation!

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hydrophyte

OK here is the real C. cataractarum from among the seedlings that Tampa Scott sent to me. These little plants are growing well in their riparium planters. I am going to add a few more notes to my other thread about this.

13-v-11-chamaedorea-cataractarum-i-m.jpg

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Jim in Los Altos

I think just the opposite. I've never had an problem with mites on C. cataractarum, but often on D. lutescens. In fact, C. cataractarum seems quite pest resistant.

Thanks for sharing this observation!

Except for snails. I've got to keep bait around my outdoor planted C. cataractarum or they will get devoured. Not much chance of seeing a snail inside though of course.

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hydrophyte

Thanks! I'm sure the spider mites will find these plants eventually and then I will see how they do.

We have had this C. elegans plant here at home for years and it only had a little bit of trouble with mites on one occasion.

Doesn't anybody grow palms as houseplants around here?

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tjwalters

Thanks! I'm sure the spider mites will find these plants eventually and then I will see how they do.

We have had this C. elegans plant here at home for years and it only had a little bit of trouble with mites on one occasion.

Doesn't anybody grow palms as houseplants around here?

Living in MD, I don't have any other option if I want to grow anything other than needles or dwarf palmettos. See my potted palm collection (link in my signature), which is not quite up-to-date (I've lost some and added others).

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hydrophyte

Wow that's a nice collection. Are those pictures all yours too? Are you growing most of those plants in a greenhouse?

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tjwalters

Wow that's a nice collection. Are those pictures all yours too? Are you growing most of those plants in a greenhouse?

Thanks. Yep - pictures are of the actual palms. Some pix are old, so the palms are now larger. I have a sun room where they spend the winter, but I move most of them outside for the summer.

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hydrophyte

Well that is really a nice collection you have.

I gotta make some money so I can build a sunroom like that some day.

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Funkthulhu

Minor thread bump, just for the title.

I find myself in possession of a couple C.cataractarum palms I received as seedlings from Oz a couple years ago. I received several species of Chamaedorea palms and I'm curious if this one was correctly labeled. They don't match the D.lutiscens in the OP, but they're not quite like any other C.cataractarum I can find in this thread, on PalmTalk or with the Googles.

Currently, these juveniles are about 3 feet tall from base to tip, but fronds make up the vast majority of that height. The stem is tight and shiny green, only 6-10 inches high and pretty much everything matches up with the defining characteristics of C.cataractarum except the ratio in length of the Rachis to the Petiole. Now that the largest of the 3 has thrown out at least 4 of what I would call "adult" fronds the Petioles are easily 1.5-2.0 times longer than their Rachise. It makes for an interesting shape of the plant as it reaches straight up into the air with a very slight curve to each Rachis and Leaflets tilted out horizontal to catch light. Obviously, it give the plant a very slender look and not much fullness, I'm wondering if this is final morphology or if it will beef up a bit as it keeps aging?

Thoughts?

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Tyrone

Picture?

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Sabal Steve

I had a cat palm that looked great when it was in the shade. It was in a large pot and I never planted in the ground, as I decided to use my limited space for other plants. The benefits are that it was very lush, and didn't get very tall (in my experience).

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