A New Species of Beccariophoenix???

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

This was purchased with a label that said Beccariophoenix sp. "new." I figured at the time that it may have just been collected and labeled before B. alfredii was officially christened. I have not had a lot of exposure to B. alfredii, but from the pics I've seen, this palm looks different with its darker petioles and a different coloration all together.

What are the thoughts of those B. alfredii experts out there? Is this one of them? It certainly isn't "windows" or "no windows."

[kylecawazafla 959]

Wow! Very cool! I've never seen such dark petioles on a Beccariophoenix before.

[Tyrone 1,972]

Wow that is different. It seems a little smaller with finer leaves and petioles than alfredii and with that awesome colouration. I wonder if this is what B sp "pointy seed" will turn out like. Any chance the seed is still floating around somewhere?

Best regards

Tyrone

[quaman58 1,963]

Nice pictures; I agree that at least at this young age, it's different looking. It looks like a B. mad "no windows" in the foilage, but the dark petioles suggest something different. Very cool. Like Tyrone, I thought of the RPS "pointy seed" offering as the source.

[Walter John 217]

It certainly appears to have similarities to alfredii, yet those leaflets seem thinner/finer and more open somehow. I'm not sure if the petiole is so different.

[aloetom 2]

Wow, the dark petioles are very different !

Keep us updated ! Do you have any way to trace the origin of the seed ?

[Palmzilla 85]

Nice score Dean! That palm has potential!

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

Wow, the dark petioles are very different !

Keep us updated ! Do you have any way to trace the origin of the seed ?

No, unfortunately the previous owner is no longer with us. But he never collected "ordinary" stuff.

[BS Man about Palms 2,344]

Very cool. Funny how much it looks like a Parajubea...

[_Rich 44]

Great looking palm Dean Please keep us apprised as this guy grows!

Thanks,

Rich

[The Palm Nut 301]

This is mine at about the same size and as you can see the petiole is a different colour. A part from that it looks the same to me. Could soil conditons or other environmental conditions be a factor?

Cheers

Mike

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck 552]

This was purchased with a label that said Beccariophoenix sp. "new." I figured at the time that it may have just been collected and labeled before B. alfredii was officially christened. I have not had a lot of exposure to B. alfredii, but from the pics I've seen, this palm looks different with its darker petioles and a different coloration all together.

What are the thoughts of those B. alfredii experts out there? Is this one of them? It certainly isn't "windows" or "no windows."

Hi Guys ... Hi Dean.

A few years back Michael Ferrero, for those that don't know (he use to be in charge of Palms and Flowering Trees At N.Nooch.Tropical.Gardens)

in Thailand was up in Mareeba and Talked about a new 'sp' of Beccariophoenix he sorted through the plants up there, then I never noticed

because we have them in deeper shade than normal now I'll have to go for a drive to check them out... For those people in Oz there not for

sale till we check them out. Time for J.D. to come on board ...You there John..

Regards Mikey....

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

This was purchased with a label that said Beccariophoenix sp. "new." I figured at the time that it may have just been collected and labeled before B. alfredii was officially christened. I have not had a lot of exposure to B. alfredii, but from the pics I've seen, this palm looks different with its darker petioles and a different coloration all together.

What are the thoughts of those B. alfredii experts out there? Is this one of them? It certainly isn't "windows" or "no windows."

Hi Guys ... Hi Dean.

A few years back Michael Ferrero, for those that don't know (he use to be in charge of Palms and Flowering Trees At N.Nooch.Tropical.Gardens)

in Thailand was up in Mareeba and Talked about a new 'sp' of Beccariophoenix he sorted through the plants up there, then I never noticed

because we have them in deeper shade than normal now I'll have to go for a drive to check them out... For those people in Oz there not for

sale till we check them out. Time for J.D. to come on board ...You there John..

Regards Mikey....

Thanks for the pic Mike. To me the form of "yours" and mine look identical. It is the color that has me thrown. Mine, in addition to the petiole color the leaves have a noticeably different hue. I don't have a B. alfredii to compare, but my B. 'no windows' are nice and "normal" green.

Mikey, I'll look forward to what you can dig up. I think I remember this grower telling me when he was still alive that he had a new Becarriophoenix when I was visiting one time years ago. And at the time I was skeptical, and was thinking it could have just been confused with B. alfredii. Or I could be hallucinating the whole conversation. Please let us know.

[Hammer 650]

So I was going to try to wait another couple of weeks to hit the one year mark but I just couldn't resist. Dean, how about an update on these unique palms? Any thoughts on what may be causing this dark petiole? ...new species, nutrients, other?

I've got a B. Alfredii that is exhibiting a dark petiole on one leaf. I'm keeping on eye on it to see what happens. But it sure is strange to see this on one leaf only. Hoping maybe you can shed some light based on your experience.

If you happen to know where I can get one these (fully dark petiole) palms please do let me know.

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

I'll get a pic tomorrow. As you know, a pic is worth a thousand words. Good thing because I don't have much to say about this palm at all - only what I already related in the opening post. I looked at it in passing a few months ago and I think my brain registered that the petioles weren't as dark any more. At any rate, I'll take a pic and we can compare.

[redant 1,128]

I have 6 alfredii, the one planted in semi-shade has dark petioles like that and more widely spaced fronds.

[Palm crazy 1,357]

That's an awesome fine. The leaves look like parajubaea but that darker than normal colors are a knock out.

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

As promised, here's an update. Still some color, but distributed differently. If you are still interested, remind me in another year or so and I'll take some more pics.

[Alberto 1,533]

I bought seeds of B.alfredii from RPS two times.One of my "alfreddiis" had the same look when younger as the posted above, with the dark petioles. I took a look now, in the dark and the new petiole and speer are a very beautifull dark purple collor. The other plants I cultivated from the seeds are more green.

Tomorrow I´ll try to post a pic.

[JD in the OC 51]

morphologically it looks identical to B. alfredii. the petioles do seem to have a distinct dark coloration. is that a lot of tomentum I see on the petioles too Dean??

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

morphologically it looks identical to B. alfredii. the petioles do seem to have a distinct dark coloration. is that a lot of tomentum I see on the petioles too Dean??

I don't think so. I wouldn't call it tomentum as much as just color in the tissue itself.

[redant 1,128]

Here is my dark one, not as much as yours but all my others are very green.

[Alberto 1,533]

The pics are not very true to collor but you get the idea

[Alberto 1,533]

This is the first one I planted out and has green petioles.

[Darold Petty 2,517]

I have two plants labeled as B. alfredii from RPS seed source. They are beginning to show maroon petiole color. (Sorry, I can't post photo now, but will try later.)

[Hammer 650]

Any sense what the common theme is amongst those who have the dark petiole version? How much sun exposure? When did you purchase the seeds? Perhaps it is possible to trace these back to the parent(s) and see if the parent(s) exhibited this trait?

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

Any sense what the common theme is amongst those who have the dark petiole version? How much sun exposure? When did you purchase the seeds? Perhaps it is possible to trace these back to the parent(s) and see if the parent(s) exhibited this trait?

I can't offer any help with mine at all in that area. I have no history on it, and it is the only one I have - so I can't compare it with different exposures, etc. either.

[Alberto 1,533]

This one grows at the side of the forest, so this place is less sunny then others were I planted B.alfredii. But i don´t think that ´s the reason because another potted palm, also not in full sun was green.

I bought B.alfredii seeds two times. One of the batches of seeds came from the first time it was offered by RPS.

[Moose 1,469]

As promised, here's an update. Still some color, but distributed differently. If you are still interested, remind me in another year or so and I'll take some more pics.

Dean - you have now been reminded

[Dypsisdean 1,108]

As promised, here's an update. Still some color, but distributed differently. If you are still interested, remind me in another year or so and I'll take some more pics.

Dean - you have now been reminded

MooseMan - post #43 here is a pic taken yesterday of the same palm.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/36544-b-alfredii-under-rated/page-2?

[SanDimas 11]

In continuation of Tyrones Post3 and Quamans Post4.....

I too have a B. sp. pointed seed in a gallon pot purchased from JD Andersen N.

Is this a form of windows? no window? alfredi? new species?

Info greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Ritchy

[Mandrew968 1,605]

I don't see a new species...

[Alberto 1,533]

I planted out 9 young one gallon (seeds bought two times as B.alfredii from RPS)

Five died after the freeze in july 2011 (near -5ºC at ground level, with lots of frost). From the four survivors all has the dark purple petioles.

The two "green petioles form" grow in Tibagi that is a warmer county near here.

Has somebody seen similar hardiness with there "purple petiole B.alfredis" ???

[sonoranfans 1,799]

I planted out 9 young one gallon (seeds bought two times as B.alfredii from RPS)

Five died after the freeze in july 2011 (near -5ºC at ground level, with lots of frost). From the four survivors all has the dark purple petioles.

The two "green petioles form" grow in Tibagi that is a warmer county near here.

Has somebody seen similar hardiness with there "purple petiole B.alfredis" ???

Alberto I recall fromt he freeze section that you stated that the ones you had that survived were prediminately under canoopy and those that died were in the open in a cooler spot of your property. Could it be that the petiole color interpretation with species and coldhardiness is confused by the canopy protection afforded those under canopy?

[Alberto 1,533]

The one "near high canopy" (at the side of araucaria forst was unfazed by the freeze) and all the other 8 plants (in the open) only four survived and all have purple petioles.

[sonoranfans 1,799]

your last post from the freeze section is a bit misleading then:

"Two nights of freezing temperatures. Heavy frost. First one -3°C (26.6 F) and second 1.5°C.
The ones growing with some canopy are fine. The 4 other plants (Fully pinate) at a lower part of my property (where at ground level it probably was near -5°C) totally defoliated and had speerpull. "

So I am guessing that the some of the ones in the lower part of your property that defolliated and had spearpull recovered and they were purple petiole? Or are we taling a new update here that was not previously reported?

[Alberto 1,533]

To clarify things:

During the freeze :

-One little bigger palm was at the side of the araucaria forest: purple petioles (shown above) and did not suffer leave damage

-One potted palm below canopy higher ground (green petiole): pristine

-Four growing at the lowest part of my property: all look dead but only one recovered (purple petiole)

-Three other palms growing in the orchard, badly damaged and two recovered (both also with purple petiole)

Of course I only can tell now that the survivors have purple petiole, but I cannot say (I dont remember) the collor of the petioles from the palms that died....

The potted palm (green petiole) that survived pristine below canopy was later planted in Tibagi , to make company to the other green petiole that grows there.

I hope this helps.....

[sonoranfans 1,799]

To clarify things:

During the freeze :

-One little bigger palm was at the side of the araucaria forest: purple petioles (shown above) and did not suffer leave damage

-One potted palm below canopy higher ground (green petiole): pristine

-Four growing at the lowest part of my property: all look dead but only one recovered (purple petiole)

-Three other palms growing in the orchard, badly damaged and two recovered (both also with purple petiole)

so they were badly damaged, nearly died but came back at 26.6F and frost? the green petiole ones died at 26.6F and frost?

[Alberto 1,533]

I only can say now, that the in ground survivors at my place, have a purple petiole!!!

I cannot say that the palms that died where the green ones,,,,,

[Alberto 1,533]

Now I remember it again. There were only 6 B.alfredii totally exposed to the sky (not 7 as I stated.One palm died before the winter killed by a kind of big bug) and there were two below/at the side of canopy!

Here you can read about it:(pics of the palms)

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/29479-first-frost-from-down-under-parana-south-brazil/?hl=arrependimento#entry477701