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Is This Climate Suitable For Cocos nucifera ?

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nick
Plant a coconut in early spring, not winter. At least in early spring it has all of spring, summer and autumn to go before winter hits and it slows way down. Your weather at the moment sounds beautiful. :D

6-19C here at the moment. :(

o.k. early spring would be better for starting and working in the garden. Beside the optimal planting season, the next months it's getting hotter and to humid for that, but it is coco friedly :winkie:

I know the weather in Pearth once I was there in june, it was sunny and 17-19°C with a perfect blue sky. :D

Best regards to Perth! smut

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Bae72

Tyrone, if you're about and can be bothered, I've a coconut palm that's been in a plastic pot for about 2.5 years. It's managed to survive 2 southern winters (one in a warm bathroom with little light and one in greenhouses) and is doing fine up to this point in its 3rd in a greenhouse with some heating. It's no world record setter regarding growth, but given the conditions and my accidental mistreatment that's hardly surprising.

I was thinking about your ideas for giving them the best chance for surviving outside. I had an idea to scope out where the best winter sun is and if I found a place to dig a large hole in the clay, fill it with coarse sand, plastic cover and pebbles as per your ideas. All good.

Problem I have is that the palm has been in potting mix. If the potting mix holds water and being damp and cold kills the roots, then should I soak palm in tepid water/seasol mix to remove all potting mix and gently expose roots (as is done when sending plants in mail)? Then I'd plant palm wholly in coarse sand, making sure that I gently cover roots with sand and keep it's structure. I imagine the structure of the roots to be like coiled rope after so long in a pot. The problem I see is that the shock of removing potting mix and exposing roots might outweigh any benefits of planting it in sand. If I do plant it, it won't be until end of September, when cold is gone. So, no rush.

Any thoughts?

Edited by Bae72

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Tyrone

Tyrone, if you're about and can be bothered, I've a coconut palm that's been in a plastic pot for about 2.5 years. It's managed to survive 2 southern winters (one in a warm bathroom with little light and one in greenhouses) and is doing fine up to this point in its 3rd in a greenhouse with some heating. It's no world record setter regarding growth, but given the conditions and my accidental mistreatment that's hardly surprising.

I was thinking about your ideas for giving them the best chance for surviving outside. I had an idea to scope out where the best winter sun is and if I found a place to dig a large hole in the clay, fill it with coarse sand, plastic cover and pebbles as per your ideas. All good.

Problem I have is that the palm has been in potting mix. If the potting mix holds water and being damp and cold kills the roots, then should I soak palm in tepid water/seasol mix to remove all potting mix and gently expose roots (as is done when sending plants in mail)? Then I'd plant palm wholly in coarse sand, making sure that I gently cover roots with sand and keep it's structure. I imagine the structure of the roots to be like coiled rope after so long in a pot. The problem I see is that the shock of removing potting mix and exposing roots might outweigh any benefits of planting it in sand. If I do plant it, it won't be until end of September, when cold is gone. So, no rush.

Any thoughts?

Brian even my coconut which I bought from Bunnings was in potting mix with some bits of styrofoam for aeration and I didn't bother removing the potting mix off it when I planted it. I think the surrounding soil which will be sand will sort of suck any moisture out of the potting mix a bit anyway. If the mix has broken down into glug I'd try to gently remove as much of that as possible without snapping of roots or damaging root hairs. If that is the case and you were going to totally bare root it, I'd wait for nice warm conditions when the coconut would repair it's roots quickly. But if when you take it out of the pot half the soil falls off and the rest stays attached I wouldn't worry too much about removing the rest. Potting mix performs differently in the ground to when it's in a pot. It should be 30% sand anyway. That's my thoughts anyway. :)

Best regards

Tyrone

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Bae72

Tyrone, if you're about and can be bothered, I've a coconut palm that's been in a plastic pot for about 2.5 years. It's managed to survive 2 southern winters (one in a warm bathroom with little light and one in greenhouses) and is doing fine up to this point in its 3rd in a greenhouse with some heating. It's no world record setter regarding growth, but given the conditions and my accidental mistreatment that's hardly surprising.

I was thinking about your ideas for giving them the best chance for surviving outside. I had an idea to scope out where the best winter sun is and if I found a place to dig a large hole in the clay, fill it with coarse sand, plastic cover and pebbles as per your ideas. All good.

Problem I have is that the palm has been in potting mix. If the potting mix holds water and being damp and cold kills the roots, then should I soak palm in tepid water/seasol mix to remove all potting mix and gently expose roots (as is done when sending plants in mail)? Then I'd plant palm wholly in coarse sand, making sure that I gently cover roots with sand and keep it's structure. I imagine the structure of the roots to be like coiled rope after so long in a pot. The problem I see is that the shock of removing potting mix and exposing roots might outweigh any benefits of planting it in sand. If I do plant it, it won't be until end of September, when cold is gone. So, no rush.

Any thoughts?

Brian even my coconut which I bought from Bunnings was in potting mix with some bits of styrofoam for aeration and I didn't bother removing the potting mix off it when I planted it. I think the surrounding soil which will be sand will sort of suck any moisture out of the potting mix a bit anyway. If the mix has broken down into glug I'd try to gently remove as much of that as possible without snapping of roots or damaging root hairs. If that is the case and you were going to totally bare root it, I'd wait for nice warm conditions when the coconut would repair it's roots quickly. But if when you take it out of the pot half the soil falls off and the rest stays attached I wouldn't worry too much about removing the rest. Potting mix performs differently in the ground to when it's in a pot. It should be 30% sand anyway. That's my thoughts anyway. :)

Best regards

Tyrone

Thanks heaps Tyrone. I won't be doing anything until it is warmer.

Brian.

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Tyrone

Plant a coconut in early spring, not winter. At least in early spring it has all of spring, summer and autumn to go before winter hits and it slows way down. Your weather at the moment sounds beautiful. :D

6-19C here at the moment. :(

o.k. early spring would be better for starting and working in the garden. Beside the optimal planting season, the next months it's getting hotter and to humid for that, but it is coco friedly :winkie:

I know the weather in Pearth once I was there in june, it was sunny and 17-19°C with a perfect blue sky. :D

Best regards to Perth! smut

Thanks mate. :) 23C here next week and then hopefully some rain. We had a good bit of rain last week and then nothing. Blue skies and windy today. A warm 12C overnight too which I wasn't expecting.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Tyrone

Tyrone, if you're about and can be bothered, I've a coconut palm that's been in a plastic pot for about 2.5 years. It's managed to survive 2 southern winters (one in a warm bathroom with little light and one in greenhouses) and is doing fine up to this point in its 3rd in a greenhouse with some heating. It's no world record setter regarding growth, but given the conditions and my accidental mistreatment that's hardly surprising.

I was thinking about your ideas for giving them the best chance for surviving outside. I had an idea to scope out where the best winter sun is and if I found a place to dig a large hole in the clay, fill it with coarse sand, plastic cover and pebbles as per your ideas. All good.

Problem I have is that the palm has been in potting mix. If the potting mix holds water and being damp and cold kills the roots, then should I soak palm in tepid water/seasol mix to remove all potting mix and gently expose roots (as is done when sending plants in mail)? Then I'd plant palm wholly in coarse sand, making sure that I gently cover roots with sand and keep it's structure. I imagine the structure of the roots to be like coiled rope after so long in a pot. The problem I see is that the shock of removing potting mix and exposing roots might outweigh any benefits of planting it in sand. If I do plant it, it won't be until end of September, when cold is gone. So, no rush.

Any thoughts?

Brian even my coconut which I bought from Bunnings was in potting mix with some bits of styrofoam for aeration and I didn't bother removing the potting mix off it when I planted it. I think the surrounding soil which will be sand will sort of suck any moisture out of the potting mix a bit anyway. If the mix has broken down into glug I'd try to gently remove as much of that as possible without snapping of roots or damaging root hairs. If that is the case and you were going to totally bare root it, I'd wait for nice warm conditions when the coconut would repair it's roots quickly. But if when you take it out of the pot half the soil falls off and the rest stays attached I wouldn't worry too much about removing the rest. Potting mix performs differently in the ground to when it's in a pot. It should be 30% sand anyway. That's my thoughts anyway. :)

Best regards

Tyrone

Thanks heaps Tyrone. I won't be doing anything until it is warmer.

Brian.

I remember years ago when I was doing my hort studies, they taught us to never put potting mix into the ground in Perth when planting normal garden plants as the potting mix will dry out and have the moisture sucked out of it by the surrounding soil. I didn't know this and it came as a bit of a shock. I had two large Kentia's I planted here from 150L bags. The first one I planted before I knew this info and used a couple of bags of potting mix. The second one I planted properly and used a ton of sheep manure in the hole instead. The potting mix planted one has always been behind the manure planted one I think for this reason. I also put manures and a ton of water on the potting mix planted one but it never progressed as fast due to the lack of soil moisture. With a coconut in a cool climate, this effect is probably a bit of an advantage as that's what you want the soil to do in winter, dry out a bit. With correct irrigation in the warmer months you can counteract this tendency. It's not good for a Kentia though that wants to stay moist year round. So a bit of potting mix on the root ball probably is a bit of an advantage provided it hasn't reverted to sludge. :)

Best regards

Tyrone

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Bae72

I remember years ago when I was doing my hort studies, they taught us to never put potting mix into the ground in Perth when planting normal garden plants as the potting mix will dry out and have the moisture sucked out of it by the surrounding soil. I didn't know this and it came as a bit of a shock. I had two large Kentia's I planted here from 150L bags. The first one I planted before I knew this info and used a couple of bags of potting mix. The second one I planted properly and used a ton of sheep manure in the hole instead. The potting mix planted one has always been behind the manure planted one I think for this reason. I also put manures and a ton of water on the potting mix planted one but it never progressed as fast due to the lack of soil moisture. With a coconut in a cool climate, this effect is probably a bit of an advantage as that's what you want the soil to do in winter, dry out a bit. With correct irrigation in the warmer months you can counteract this tendency. It's not good for a Kentia though that wants to stay moist year round. So a bit of potting mix on the root ball probably is a bit of an advantage provided it hasn't reverted to sludge. :)

Best regards

Tyrone

The potting mix was a cheap variety. When I repotted it last spring, I asked the horticulturalist (she said she was) at Bunnings and she said the original potting mix was not much more than bark and they shouldn't sell it. She recommended another mix which I used to fill the bottom of the pot. But the original poor potting mix is still around the root ball.

Edited by Bae72

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bubba

If Cocos nucifera can be grown extensively in Bermuda (32'4) and Madeira (32'6), why not attempt the Azores (37'+)? Although it lacks heat, it is in the middle of the Stream. It also is has numerous hot springs.

Winter minimums in the Azores virtually never drop below 50 F. and many times are closer to 60 F. This results from it's location in the Stream.

That stated, maximum temperatures in Winter may only be in the low 60's F. This lack of heat in air temperature could be offset by planting a Coconut in a beneficial location near the multitude of natural hot springs.This could create a micro-climate that would boost air temperature in the area of the Coconut but also deal with the cold soil issue pointed out by Tyrone and Cristobal. The Azores appear to be broadly located between 37' and 39' latitude. I do not see any other area worldwide with this promise.

It seems the latitude long-term record remains at approximately 34'in Port Elizabeth, South Africa. Once again, this appears to relate to it's proximity to a warm ocean current.

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US_Marine

Whats interesting is Bakersfeild, CA has temps much like Limassol, Cyprus. It isn't frost free however, and is inland.

Anyway I say go for it, the winter temps seem too cold but you never know. I had one make it up to mid Jan here in Northern California. If only it wouldn't have shut down because we had mid 70f's coming the week before it died, it might have been enough to pull it through. Not sure if it would have but why not try. I also think that the coldest week we had with temps barely reaching 48f is what shut her down, after that she declined. She was planted next to a south facing wall with a mix of sand and palm mix.

Good luck and let us know how it goes! :)

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luca79

Hi everybody. I'm new and I'm writing from Italy.

I read this interesting discussion, but I believe that all the places you mentioned in the Mediterranean are not suitable for Coconuts.

I believe that the only suitable place is a small island named Linosa, south of Malta. This is the warmest spot in the Mediterranean, it averages 13 °C minimum and 18 °C maximum in the coldest month. Temperatures never fall below 7 °C.

It is very small (5 sqkm), so temperatures are directly influenced by the sea and it is volcanic, so it has black rocks that help keeping maximum temperature high even in winter. Furthermore, it is not exposed to cold eastern winds such as greek islands that may lead, for few days, to low temperatures.

Unfortunately I have not the chance to try Coconut there, but three days ago I knew a guy from Linosa who told me he will try to grow coconut in the island. I will let you know if his try will be successful :yay:

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nick

luca, regarding the climate, why not Lampedusa, what's the difference?

For the next time, I dicided not to try a coco. There are so many other possibilities and my space is limited. Maybe it could work, but for a suffering Palm for years I can get not the same benefit as I could with others.

Fingers crossed for your friends project!

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luca79

hi nick. Lampedusa has the same minimum average temperatures of Linosa, but the maximum are lower, due to the white calcareous rocks instead of the black ones of Linosa that help reaching higher maximum temperatures. Linosa temperatures are the same of Madeira...so I believe it's possible to grow a coconut in a protected spot

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nick

luca, a beautiful spot over there, the vulcanic rocks could help. Go for it!

btw. I couldn't find any climatic information for Linosa, do you have more details/link?

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Janni

Hi Luca,

this is exactly what I was thinking when I read this topic the first time. Lampedusa and Malta (and those smaller islets around there) have a very favourable climate for some tropical plants (except for the lack of rain). On the other hand, when I compare the climatological records of Lampedusa or Malta with Rhodes, Greece, there is hardly any difference. Both, the average high temps and average lows are almost the same. And there are indeed coldspells at Lampedusa, Malta and in the whole area, like the ones on the greek islands.

There are also other islands like Karpathos, Gavdos, large parts of Crete and of course Cyprus with a similar climate. Compared to the southern coast of Spain where the daily highs are a bit higher, the average and absolute lows are significantly higher on those islands. I don't know which temperature is more important for growing marginal plants, but if you succeed with the Coco there, I think it would be worth a try on other islands, too.

Good Luck!

Greetings

Janni

PS: The climate statistics I took are from weatheronline. co. uk

If you look for the climate of a city, there is a button for "climate robot". If available, you can find many interesting statistics. I compared the data from 2000 - 2011.

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nick

Janni, maybe Linosa is a med. hotspot for coco (i have no climatical data, yet).

But in general, some of the islands around Malta and southern Greece are mild in the lows indeed, but the winter highs are almost clearly less than 20°C and a little lower than we have during the day on our south coast. Beside humidity and sands soil, that should be the most important factor, more than mild nights. But it is worth to try if space is left.

Edited by nick

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Alicante

The best climate on Europe (without counting the Canary Islands, Madeira and Azores) is in the south of Spain.

The southern zone of Spain, which is on the mediterranean sea but very influenced from the Atlantic Ocean.

There is a short zone from the sea level to the ground (about 10-15km inland) from Tarifa, Cádiz to Motril, Granada where mango, papayas, bananas, and other tropical fruits grow in. Every year the cultivation of that type of fruits is growing and growing because are much more valuable than oranges, olives, etc... But that's not important. The important thing is that "Costa del Sol" (Sunshine coast, translated) is the only place in Europe where mango (for example) grows well in extension. Those are the unique zones on continental Europe with a 10b classification in the hardiness zone. Valletta for example is the hottest capital city on Europe and it's on 10A, Limassol or Nicosia the same, 10A. Nicosia for example has records with temperatures under 0ºC, Valletta recorded minimum was 0ºC, Nicosia arrived to -3ºC.

The only place where can grow in on continental Europe is that place... Tried a lot of times but impossible. There are very tropical palm trees, very tropical trees in general, but no cocos nucifera. There is a urban legend, with a few coconut trees on Fuengirola (Málaga) which are protected on winter but they are on outdoors... I don't know if that's truth.

For example the average maximum temperature in Tarifa (Cádiz) in January is 16ºC, and the minimum is 12º. In July it's 24º and 20º. This is the most "tropical lookalike" climate on continental Europe and here the coconut trees grow like in Azores. They can't stand for a long...

The unique zones with coconuts are Madeira which has a very few coconuts, and the Canary Islands. That's another story, in the Canary Islands is full of coconuts; those are the places in Europe with coconuts. But in continental Europe... impossible.

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Alicante

If Cocos nucifera can be grown extensively in Bermuda (32'4) and Madeira (32'6), why not attempt the Azores (37'+)? Although it lacks heat, it is in the middle of the Stream. It also is has numerous hot springs.

Winter minimums in the Azores virtually never drop below 50 F. and many times are closer to 60 F. This results from it's location in the Stream.

That stated, maximum temperatures in Winter may only be in the low 60's F. This lack of heat in air temperature could be offset by planting a Coconut in a beneficial location near the multitude of natural hot springs.This could create a micro-climate that would boost air temperature in the area of the Coconut but also deal with the cold soil issue pointed out by Tyrone and Cristobal. The Azores appear to be broadly located between 37' and 39' latitude. I do not see any other area worldwide with this promise.

It seems the latitude long-term record remains at approximately 34'in Port Elizabeth, South Africa. Once again, this appears to relate to it's proximity to a warm ocean current.

Sorry mate but in Madeira coconuts doesn't grow extensively. They grow quite hard and they are a few over all island. In Bermuda they grown as easy as you put the seed on the ground. But in Madeira not, in all Europe only in a few few places of Canary Islands grow in extension like they do on tropical climates, or like they do in Bermuda. Even in the majority of coastal Canary Islands (if we don't count the few places I mentioned before) they need to be supervised and they grow better than in Madeira, but not like they have to do it in their habitat.

Coconuts in Port Elizabeth ?? I am seeing that the lowest recorded was -1ºC and the average minimum temperatures in 5 months is below 12ºC. How it's possible? I searched in a lot of places but I didn't see any cocos nucifera. I won't believe it until I see a coconut growing there... Geographically talking is impossible.

You were talking about a coconut palm which belongs to a man called John settled in southern Spain, is that coconut still alive? I've been heard histories of a few coconuts in southern Spain but I didn't ever see any of them...

There are some photos for example in Fuerteventura Island, which reaches about 100-150mm precipitacions per year:

CocosIMG_1109.jpg_fue.jpg

IMG_0969.jpg%20fue.jpg

Cocos%20nucifera1.jpg

Cocos%20nucifera%2004.JPG

There are coconuts on all the islands of Canary Islands, but the islands with more coconuts are obviously Tenerife and Gran Canaria.

For example, in La Palma island are quite rare like in Madeira, but look at this:

VISTA_DE_LA_CALDERA_DE_TABURIENTE_N.jpg

At the final look at the snow. Snow in the horizon, with coconuts on the front page of the photo! Enjoy :yay:

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Cocoa Beach Jason

If Cocos nucifera can be grown extensively in Bermuda (32'4) and Madeira (32'6), why not attempt the Azores (37'+)? Although it lacks heat, it is in the middle of the Stream. It also is has numerous hot springs.

Winter minimums in the Azores virtually never drop below 50 F. and many times are closer to 60 F. This results from it's location in the Stream.

That stated, maximum temperatures in Winter may only be in the low 60's F. This lack of heat in air temperature could be offset by planting a Coconut in a beneficial location near the multitude of natural hot springs.This could create a micro-climate that would boost air temperature in the area of the Coconut but also deal with the cold soil issue pointed out by Tyrone and Cristobal. The Azores appear to be broadly located between 37' and 39' latitude. I do not see any other area worldwide with this promise.

It seems the latitude long-term record remains at approximately 34'in Port Elizabeth, South Africa. Once again, this appears to relate to it's proximity to a warm ocean current.

Sorry mate but in Madeira coconuts doesn't grow extensively. They grow quite hard and they are a few over all island. In Bermuda they grown as easy as you put the seed on the ground. But in Madeira not, in all Europe only in a few few places of Canary Islands grow in extension like they do on tropical climates, or like they do in Bermuda. Even in the majority of coastal Canary Islands (if we don't count the few places I mentioned before) they need to be supervised and they grow better than in Madeira, but not like they have to do it in their habitat.

Coconuts in Port Elizabeth ?? I am seeing that the lowest recorded was -1ºC and the average minimum temperatures in 5 months is below 12ºC. How it's possible? I searched in a lot of places but I didn't see any cocos nucifera. I won't believe it until I see a coconut growing there... Geographically talking is impossible.

You were talking about a coconut palm which belongs to a man called John settled in southern Spain, is that coconut still alive? I've been heard histories of a few coconuts in southern Spain but I didn't ever see any of them...

There are some photos for example in Fuerteventura Island, which reaches about 100-150mm precipitacions per year:

CocosIMG_1109.jpg_fue.jpg

IMG_0969.jpg%20fue.jpg

Cocos%20nucifera1.jpg

Cocos%20nucifera%2004.JPG

There are coconuts on all the islands of Canary Islands, but the islands with more coconuts are obviously Tenerife and Gran Canaria.

For example, in La Palma island are quite rare like in Madeira, but look at this:

VISTA_DE_LA_CALDERA_DE_TABURIENTE_N.jpg

At the final look at the snow. Snow in the horizon, with coconuts on the front page of the photo! Enjoy :yay:

That photo is epic.

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Stelios

As the title says. Is there any change for a cocos to survive there?

Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol#Climate (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3300 hours) If yes this would be a potential new record.

Here's a second link for a different place http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Ierapetra (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3100 hours) If yes this would be the only place in Europe (geographically) where it could survive.

There must be something wrong with the climate data from Cyprus. Comparing the data from Lemesos(Limassol) to Paphos, it seems to be that Lemesos is milder and has more precipitation. It cannot be. I know other Data. Paphos region must be the winter mildest region of Cyprus and north of it to Peyia there are a lot of bananafields for commercial cultivation. This must have a reason. Beside the Canary Islands and Madeira I do not know other european regions.

Furthermore and for instance in Paphos region you can see a lot of Frangipani and some Carica papaya, Limefruit and mango as well. If you study the geological map of cyprus you can see how protect the Paphos-region is, also good for rain for mostly westerly winds.

I agree with Nick that Paphos has the best possibility for the cocos to grow than Limassol. The temps which you see on the internet showing Limassol has more mild winter than Paphos is because, like Nick said, the temps for Paphos are recorded at the Paphos airport which is more cold than the center of the town, Geroskipou or Pegeia area. Paphos always has more mild temps because is also more far from the Troodos mountains (twice the distance) which gets some snow there almost every year, but Limassol is much closer and is more exposed to the cold winds from the snow (you can see the top of Troodos from Limassol). I was driving with my wife 2 days ago in Pegeia area near the coast and I was happy to see a huge Ravenala (not many around) and many palms which people started to plant more and more like Foxtails, Bismarkias, Royals and Kings. The houses in this area are built surrounded by the banana fields and the place looks very tropical. I know that the cocos will need some protection in the winter to grow here especially when they are small but I hope to make it will grow to see which possibilities it has when is bigger. People loose palms from different reasons so if it will die I still have different other options for palms. Ravenea rivularis, Howea and Becariophoenix are some nice coconut look-alike palms to me. I also agree with Cristobal is better to plant the cocos in the pure sand. Here in Paphos we have good sunshine and in the winter and sand dries quickly and warming up the roots. My palm is still pushing the new spear and today the leaves started to open.

Stelios

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Cluster

Proeza I did not understand this part where you talk about Azores coconuts and Tarifa. I do not think people tried them on the Azores or did they? Also Tarifa does seem a bit cold for them survive and you say they don't hold up for very long.. so that is one less mystery to solve. As for Madeira I think you underestimate a bit the climate, there are a few cocos there that are left without any apparent supervision but most are being taken care of in the wrong way, all trimmed. You can see some of my latest pictures on the Madeira thread where you see small coconuts growing, they don't need to be big to survive. I might even try one from seed at 140 m one day:).

Edited by Cluster

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Alicante

As the title says. Is there any change for a cocos to survive there?

Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol#Climate (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3300 hours) If yes this would be a potential new record.

Here's a second link for a different place http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Ierapetra (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3100 hours) If yes this would be the only place in Europe (geographically) where it could survive.

There must be something wrong with the climate data from Cyprus. Comparing the data from Lemesos(Limassol) to Paphos, it seems to be that Lemesos is milder and has more precipitation. It cannot be. I know other Data. Paphos region must be the winter mildest region of Cyprus and north of it to Peyia there are a lot of bananafields for commercial cultivation. This must have a reason. Beside the Canary Islands and Madeira I do not know other european regions.

Furthermore and for instance in Paphos region you can see a lot of Frangipani and some Carica papaya, Limefruit and mango as well. If you study the geological map of cyprus you can see how protect the Paphos-region is, also good for rain for mostly westerly winds.

I agree with Nick that Paphos has the best possibility for the cocos to grow than Limassol. The temps which you see on the internet showing Limassol has more mild winter than Paphos is because, like Nick said, the temps for Paphos are recorded at the Paphos airport which is more cold than the center of the town, Geroskipou or Pegeia area. Paphos always has more mild temps because is also more far from the Troodos mountains (twice the distance) which gets some snow there almost every year, but Limassol is much closer and is more exposed to the cold winds from the snow (you can see the top of Troodos from Limassol). I was driving with my wife 2 days ago in Pegeia area near the coast and I was happy to see a huge Ravenala (not many around) and many palms which people started to plant more and more like Foxtails, Bismarkias, Royals and Kings. The houses in this area are built surrounded by the banana fields and the place looks very tropical. I know that the cocos will need some protection in the winter to grow here especially when they are small but I hope to make it will grow to see which possibilities it has when is bigger. People loose palms from different reasons so if it will die I still have different other options for palms. Ravenea rivularis, Howea and Becariophoenix are some nice coconut look-alike palms to me. I also agree with Cristobal is better to plant the cocos in the pure sand. Here in Paphos we have good sunshine and in the winter and sand dries quickly and warming up the roots. My palm is still pushing the new spear and today the leaves started to open.

Stelios

It's really impossible to grew a cocos nucifera out there. Well the precipitations aren't a problem because it would be the beloved kid of his owner XD but it's impossible. Actually I am searching for the weather in Paphos and:

12º - 5º , 10º - 5º, 9º - 5º, 13º - 8º, 16º - 9º... that's even colder than in my zone. In Limassol for example today minimum is 2º and tomorrow is 1º... it's impossible. They can grow with 12º at night in January if they get 20º at day, but those kind of climates are only seen in the south of Florida and some southern zones in Australia or South Africa. In continental Europe IS IMPOSSIBLE.

The best climate for them is in the southernmost spanish points, where mangos and bananas grow up and the cultivations are so important than they even export them; but even in those zones all the Cocos Nucifera planted from young died :( , and that's the warmest point on continental Europe. You can try Beccariophoenix Alfredii, the most lookalike palm to cocos nucifera, and it grows on high and arid hills of Madagascar, they support -4º when they are young and is sure that they will support more when they are adults.

Beccariophoenix_alfredii_21.JPG

Beccariophoenix_alfredii_17.JPG

Beccariophoenix_alfredii_45.JPG

6046679572_acf08070df.jpg

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Alicante

Proeza I did not understand this part where you talk about Azores coconuts and Tarifa. I do not think people tried them on the Azores or did they? Also Tarifa does seem a bit cold for them survive and you say they don't hold up for very long.. so that is one less mystery to solve. As for Madeira I think you underestimate a bit the climate, there are a few cocos there that are left without any apparent supervision but most are being taken care of in the wrong way, all trimmed. You can see some of my latest pictures on the Madeira thread where you see small coconuts growing, they don't need to be big to survive. I might even try one from seed at 140 m one day:).

As far as I arrived, I didn't see any coconut ever on Azores, it's impossible to grow them out there because the daytime high temperatures on summer are so mild for them, 16-17º at day and 12-13º at night is not the place for cocos nucifera. It's most important to have 20-21º at day and you can ever have 11-12º at night, but they need the magic spot of 20º. If you consider more important the minimums, they at least need 15º during night and 19º during day, and that in a very short period of time. For example the coconuts in La Palma island (Canary Islands) grow like this, in La Palma island there are spots with 20º at day and 16º averages at night on January, but there are places with 19º - 14,15º , and in those places they grow like in Madeira, there are a few of them and they look healthy, but it's not the best for them.

Roystonea Regia, Archontophoenix Alexandra or Dypsis Madagascariensis are very good tropical palm trees to be planted on Azores, Madeira, La Palma or Tarifa ;)

Yes of course Tarifa is a bit colder than Azores, but talking about maximum temperatures it's a bit warmer, even with that is not possible to grow them, not with 16º at day and 13º at night, they need more hot on winters.

Edited by pRoeZa*

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Cluster

On Madeira the coldest month is actually February I was certain that it was the same in the Canaries. Madeira has no good weather stations in the warmest spots but I know of places in the southwest coast where mangos are ripe one month before Funchal. The only official weather station from southwest is Ponta do Sol (Lugar de Baixo whic is far from perfect but closer to the hottest spots). I also have this theory that some coconuts are just not as beautiful even in the best climate, I just saw a gopro hero 4 video on the big island Hawaii and some of the coconuts there looked worse than some of the Madeira ones? Ierapetra might be a bit too cold as well according to this weather station http://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/ierapetra/NOAAMO.TXT they have not exceed 6,8 C for 1,5 day already, I think that is a death sentence for a coconut?:(

Edited by Cluster

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Stelios

As the title says. Is there any change for a cocos to survive there?

Here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol#Climate (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3300 hours) If yes this would be a potential new record.

Here's a second link for a different place http://www.hnms.gr/hnms/english/climatology/climatology_region_diagrams_html?dr_city=Ierapetra (bear in mind that the annual sunshine is around 3100 hours) If yes this would be the only place in Europe (geographically) where it could survive.

There must be something wrong with the climate data from Cyprus. Comparing the data from Lemesos(Limassol) to Paphos, it seems to be that Lemesos is milder and has more precipitation. It cannot be. I know other Data. Paphos region must be the winter mildest region of Cyprus and north of it to Peyia there are a lot of bananafields for commercial cultivation. This must have a reason. Beside the Canary Islands and Madeira I do not know other european regions.

Furthermore and for instance in Paphos region you can see a lot of Frangipani and some Carica papaya, Limefruit and mango as well. If you study the geological map of cyprus you can see how protect the Paphos-region is, also good for rain for mostly westerly winds.

I agree with Nick that Paphos has the best possibility for the cocos to grow than Limassol. The temps which you see on the internet showing Limassol has more mild winter than Paphos is because, like Nick said, the temps for Paphos are recorded at the Paphos airport which is more cold than the center of the town, Geroskipou or Pegeia area. Paphos always has more mild temps because is also more far from the Troodos mountains (twice the distance) which gets some snow there almost every year, but Limassol is much closer and is more exposed to the cold winds from the snow (you can see the top of Troodos from Limassol). I was driving with my wife 2 days ago in Pegeia area near the coast and I was happy to see a huge Ravenala (not many around) and many palms which people started to plant more and more like Foxtails, Bismarkias, Royals and Kings. The houses in this area are built surrounded by the banana fields and the place looks very tropical. I know that the cocos will need some protection in the winter to grow here especially when they are small but I hope to make it will grow to see which possibilities it has when is bigger. People loose palms from different reasons so if it will die I still have different other options for palms. Ravenea rivularis, Howea and Becariophoenix are some nice coconut look-alike palms to me. I also agree with Cristobal is better to plant the cocos in the pure sand. Here in Paphos we have good sunshine and in the winter and sand dries quickly and warming up the roots. My palm is still pushing the new spear and today the leaves started to open.

Stelios

It's really impossible to grew a cocos nucifera out there. Well the precipitations aren't a problem because it would be the beloved kid of his owner XD but it's impossible. Actually I am searching for the weather in Paphos and:

12º - 5º , 10º - 5º, 9º - 5º, 13º - 8º, 16º - 9º... that's even colder than in my zone. In Limassol for example today minimum is 2º and tomorrow is 1º... it's impossible. They can grow with 12º at night in January if they get 20º at day, but those kind of climates are only seen in the south of Florida and some southern zones in Australia or South Africa. In continental Europe IS IMPOSSIBLE.

The best climate for them is in the southernmost spanish points, where mangos and bananas grow up and the cultivations are so important than they even export them; but even in those zones all the Cocos Nucifera planted from young died :( , and that's the warmest point on continental Europe. You can try Beccariophoenix Alfredii, the most lookalike palm to cocos nucifera, and it grows on high and arid hills of Madagascar, they support -4º when they are young and is sure that they will support more when they are adults.

That's why we love palms! We always want to try the impossible! I never had any illusion that here in Paphos the cocos can grow so easily but like many other people like in So.Calif. are trying, I'm also trying to experiment and so far is the 3rd winter which I planted it out in the ground(with a little protection) and so far so good. Many people try different marginals so why not try a coconut as well. Like you are mentioning Gandia, Valencia is in Zone 10B. But here in Paphos according to the weather history we have much warmer temps even if we have now a couple of nights with 5C low (which is very rare). Does it make Paphos Zone 11A? Anyway it's interesting to see more places like Madeira trying to grow Cocos and other tropical palms. It's a good way to exchange information and experiences through PT of people's success or failure.

Stelios

Edited by Stelios

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Alicante
On 1/6/2015 at 8:15 PM, Stelios said:
 

That's why we love palms! We always want to try the impossible! I never had any illusion that here in Paphos the cocos can grow so easily but like many other people like in So.Calif. are trying, I'm also trying to experiment and so far is the 3rd winter which I planted it out in the ground(with a little protection) and so far so good. Many people try different marginals so why not try a coconut as well. Like you are mentioning Gandia, Valencia is in Zone 10B. But here in Paphos according to the weather history we have much warmer temps even if we have now a couple of nights with 5C low (which is very rare). Does it make Paphos Zone 11A? Anyway it's interesting to see more places like Madeira trying to grow Cocos and other tropical palms. It's a good way to exchange information and experiences through PT of people's success or failure.

Stelios

Friend, there is no Cocos Nucifera in California :)

There is only one, at Newport Beach, and if you look the actual Google Street View he is showing symptoms of dying, and the camera passed around this autumn; this winter had cold days in Newport :( and this is only the beginning of the winter. And even this one, so famous out here; was in a special microclimate zone, with delicate care with more hot on his roots and was quite protected. That without counting that the winters are a bit hotter in those zone like on Cyprus; because their lowest latitude too. But they get a lot of freezes, even Florida get freezes! (I can't explain myself that even today, why a tropical zone gets freezes, that only occurs on America haha!)

If you were refering to SoCal (Baja California) which is a state of México, yes of course there can grow any cocos on the southernmost part, because the climate is subtropical arid. It can be perfectly tropical but it's not because the low precipitations; they get 23,24 - 14,15 on average on January... Well this is not very right because those zones are touching the Tropic of Cancer. Coconuts in La Paz, México:

Lapazbajac.jpg

Paphos is zone 10B like Gandia, because here like there, temperatures go under 5º only a few days a year, and there is no freezing recording for the last 30 years.

I am seeing that the actual cold wave (that hit us last week) now is hitting southern and eastern Europe. I see that in Paphos those 2 days will be temperatures under 5ºC. But that's not the problem!!

The problem is that a Cocos Nucifera needs to have 20º at least in average in the coldest month, for example in Palm Bay, Florida; averages hit 22º on day and 10º on night on January. But there are coconuts growing on there. Why? Because the magic 20º. In Port Elizabeth, ZA there are a couple of them and the climate gives 20º in the coldest month at day and 10º at night.

In continental Europe IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. Like I said before, the best climate in continental Europe (if we take "best" as the place where the lowest temperatures are the higher ones) it's on the southernmost zone of Spain, where exist important plantations of mango, advocado... and other tropical fruits. Well, here grows well the advocado too, but mango in all continental Europe only grows good in that zone.

Places like Tarifa, Cádiz (Spain) very rarely get temperatures under 10ºC, and even on the hard cold waves, i've never seen less than 6-7ºC in Tarifa; for example the average in January in Tarifa it's from 11-13º the minimums and 15-17º the maximums. But they can't live even there because all coconuts planted from young failed. They need more hot in winters, and they won't get that in any part of continental Europe. I consider Cyprus a part of us, continental Europe of course ;)

And one more thing mate, weather in Paphos is not warmer than in Gandia; I would say they have the same climate. They are almost almost the same. I am seeing that your average annual temperature is 18,7ºC, here the average is 18,6º; even the precipitations are 387mm in Paphos and here it gets about 400mm per year, in this next climate chart if you count the precipitations, you will get 319mm per year. It's 95% the same climate. 

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Stelios
On 1/7/2015 at 6:10 AM, pRoeZa* said:
On 1/6/2015 at 8:15 PM, Stelios said:

That's why we love palms! We always want to try the impossible! I never had any illusion that here in Paphos the cocos can grow so easily but like many other people like in So.Calif. are trying, I'm also trying to experiment and so far is the 3rd winter which I planted it out in the ground(with a little protection) and so far so good. Many people try different marginals so why not try a coconut as well. Like you are mentioning Gandia, Valencia is in Zone 10B. But here in Paphos according to the weather history we have much warmer temps even if we have now a couple of nights with 5C low (which is very rare). Does it make Paphos Zone 11A? Anyway it's interesting to see more places like Madeira trying to grow Cocos and other tropical palms. It's a good way to exchange information and experiences through PT of people's success or failure.

Stelios

Friend, there is no Cocos Nucifera in California :)

There is only one, at Newport Beach, and if you look the actual Google Street View he is showing symptoms of dying, and the camera passed around this autumn; this winter had cold days in Newport :( and this is only the beginning of the winter. And even this one, so famous out here; was in a special microclimate zone, with delicate care with more hot on his roots and was quite protected. That without counting that the winters are a bit hotter in those zone like on Cyprus; because their lowest latitude too. But they get a lot of freezes, even Florida get freezes! (I can't explain myself that even today, why a tropical zone gets freezes, that only occurs on America haha!)

If you were refering to SoCal (Baja California) which is a state of México, yes of course there can grow any cocos on the southernmost part, because the climate is subtropical arid. It can be perfectly tropical but it's not because the low precipitations; they get 23,24 - 14,15 on average on January... Well this is not very right because those zones are touching the Tropic of Cancer. Coconuts in La Paz, México:

Lapazbajac.jpg

Paphos is zone 10B like Gandia, because here like there, temperatures go under 5º only a few days a year, and there is no freezing recording for the last 30 years.

I am seeing that the actual cold wave (that hit us last week) now is hitting southern and eastern Europe. I see that in Paphos those 2 days will be temperatures under 5ºC. But that's not the problem!!

The problem is that a Cocos Nucifera needs to have 20º at least in average in the coldest month, for example in Palm Bay, Florida; averages hit 22º on day and 10º on night on January. But there are coconuts growing on there. Why? Because the magic 20º. In Port Elizabeth, ZA there are a couple of them and the climate gives 20º in the coldest month at day and 10º at night.

In continental Europe IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. Like I said before, the best climate in continental Europe (if we take "best" as the place where the lowest temperatures are the higher ones) it's on the southernmost zone of Spain, where exist important plantations of mango, advocado... and other tropical fruits. Well, here grows well the advocado too, but mango in all continental Europe only grows good in that zone.

Places like Tarifa, Cádiz (Spain) very rarely get temperatures under 10ºC, and even on the hard cold waves, i've never seen less than 6-7ºC in Tarifa; for example the average in January in Tarifa it's from 11-13º the minimums and 15-17º the maximums. But they can't live even there because all coconuts planted from young failed. They need more hot in winters, and they won't get that in any part of continental Europe. I consider Cyprus a part of us, continental Europe of course ;)

And one more thing mate, weather in Paphos is not warmer than in Gandia; I would say they have the same climate. They are almost almost the same. I am seeing that your average annual temperature is 18,7ºC, here the average is 18,6º; even the precipitations are 387mm in Paphos and here it gets about 400mm per year, in this next climate chart if you count the precipitations, you will get 319mm per year. It's 95% the same climate. 

That's why my friend, and I will repeat it again I don't think that Cyprus is the same like Costa Rica

or it will ever be. But that's the fun with growing palms. You don't have to always be afraid of the

weather. Is the same when people are growing palms indoors in the northern countries. Just because a

Kentia will not grow outdoors in Holland it doesn't mean that people shouldn't try to grow it with protection inside or in the UK to try washingtonia or phoenix with protection outside (in areas of the UK that needs protection).

Regards

Stelios

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