Hassles of Island Life

[Jeff Searle]

(SunnyFl @ Jan. 07 2007,18:45)

QUOTE

(Jeff Searle @ Jan. 04 2007,17:43)

QUOTE

I think I'm correct when saying, just about anywhere we live, there's going to be advantages and disadvantages to where you are. Personally for me, I think I live in a great climate because I never liked the cold weather and prefer it to be hot always. This is where I was born and raised. I have never lived anywhere else. But, then there are other reasons for keeping me here. One, I have all my family here, and thats extreamly important. Two, my business is here, just can't pick up and move it after 25 years. So my roots are very deep. I have seen lots of changes in South Florida, and most are not good. Lots of people moving in.

    Now, as I get older and maybe sell of my property or pass the nursery down to our children, I think there's a good possibility of having another house somewhere else. Maybe in Hawaii because of the tropical climate, or maybe up in the mountains somewhere in Tennessee.It's just too early to say. And of course if I had a ton of money, I would be doing this already.

    I know I could never live in the middle of a large city like New York or LA. Just can't.

Jeff

Jeff....?

Tennessee?  It's cold up there, and the hills.....

And then there are the short days with no palms or tropicals, just glum woods and a sun that doesn't shine as bright.

I can't imagine you living apart from your palms or S. Florida at all.  I used to live there many years ago and often wish I still did.  Yes, many changes have happened and I agree, not good.  But still, you have a wonderful corner of it.

Hi Sunny,

 I was just using this state as an example. But no way, do I see ourselves moving permantly there. I was just saying that this could be a second home to live part time. Say like 2-4 weeks and then return back to S. Fla.

Jeff

[Eric Hawaii]

Aloha mai, Zac, and everyone:

Yes, if a white person (or any person) moves here from the mainland and acts presumptive or brash or like they know a lot, they are likely to encourage the ire of many a local.  On the other hand, if you are humble, unassuming, and give others the stage first, you will quickly win people over and make friends here.  Hawaiians are so relieved and overjoyed to meet a mainlander who shows that kind of humility, respect, and consideration for others, that they will often react in a surprisingly (for a mainlander) loving and friendly way (that's what is meant by "aloha").  It is a wonderful thing.  If, on the other hand, you go around talking first before listening and acting like you know what's up, you will probably never get to experience aloha.

[Eric Hawaii]

Aloha mai, Zac, and everyone:

Yes, if a white person (or any person) moves here from the mainland and acts presumptive or brash or like they know a lot, they are likely to encourage the ire of many a local.  On the other hand, if you are humble, unassuming, and give others the stage first, you will quickly win people over and make friends here.  Hawaiians are so relieved and overjoyed to meet a mainlander who shows that kind of humility, respect, and consideration for others, that they will often react in a surprisingly (for a mainlander) loving and friendly way (that's what is meant by "aloha").  It is a wonderful thing.  If you take that approach, you will probably never experience prejudice here.  If, on the other hand, you go around talking first before listening and acting like you know what's up, prejudice will find you quickly.

[Dave-Vero]

On a much more modest scale, Floridians do not like hearing how things are done in less backward parts of the US.  

May the UF football team win later today.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Eric, Dave,

I can identify with that.  Being a native Floridian, I hate when Yankees come down here and tell me how much better it was up north.  "That is not how we do it in New York" is one statement I have grown weary of a long time ago.

Jerry

[Jeff Searle]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Jan. 08 2007,06:39)

QUOTE

Eric, Dave,

I can identify with that.  Being a native Floridian, I hate when Yankees come down here and tell me how much better it was up north.  "That is not how we do it in New York" is one statement I have grown weary of a long time ago.

Jerry

And myself also, a third generation Floridian, gets tired of hearing how it's done up north or whatever.

 But getting back to the topic, I could see myself having maybe a second home someday over in Hawaii. To live there full time, probably will never happen. Jerry and Cindy Andersen have it good. They live back and forth in Hawaii and California, of course the fleight back and forth is much shorter than from Haw. and Florida.

Jeff

[Alan_Tampa]

My favorite Florida slur "People here are so lazy."  I say, A. that is crap.  B. so what?

"It is so hot here in the summer", says some transplant malcontent, to which I say "Well,  Dorothy, it is 110F in Kansas and 91F here in Tampa, and the humidity is just as high back there, so again you are stupid."

I was not born here,(In FLORIDA) I must admit, but came at age 5 or so and lived sans A/C for about 15 years.  (except at Nana's house)  

Islanders probably feel the same way when some crybaby laments over the loss of all the assorted back homes they carry. If it is so great back there, take (here it works) 1-75 north till the bridges have freeze warnings on them and stay there.

Alan

[Kathy]

To add just a bit to the fee simple (where you own the land) versus leasehold (where you lease the land) issue (which I understand exists not just in Hawaii but other island nations as well), with leasehold you will sometimes find very very inexpensive properties for sale, but the issue is very little time left in the lease.  Under a certain number of years, you cannot obtain a mortgage on these properties (in case the lease cannot be renegotiated), not to mention the fact that it would dampen our palm growing .  In Hawaii it seems that most leasehold offerings remain in condo ownership, but there are homes available this way too.

Interestingly, as Bo commented, many leaseholds are currently forced to offer conversion to fee simple as an option with the sale in the State of Hawaii.  Sometimes there are deals where the property is cheaper buying leasehold and then exercising the option (and paying additional monies) than a similar property, for example, next door for sale already as fee simple, but I don't know if that is changing.  

And there are some properties that it appears will remain leasehold, for example, some of the larger condo complexes in Honolulu / Waikiki.

[bgl]

Thanks for the additional input, Kathy. One important aspect of this, at least when it comes to land owned by Kamehameha Schools (formerly Bishop Estate) is that their entire business model is based on leasing out the land they own, and getting those payments. As a general rule, they are NOT interested in selling any of the land they own.

[amazondk]

I had a frustrated neighbor in Fort Lauderdale from Boston.  All she ever talked about was how it was better up there.  She never liked my bromeliad collection either.  Finally she sold out and went back where she came from.  The neighborhood got better in the process.

dk

[Alan_Tampa]

Don, how many years of counseling did it take to be able to relate this story without going Bill Bixby on a few inanimate objects?  Does not like your bromeliad collection, and she had the nerve to let you know this?  What a starts with b ends in itch.

Alan

[amazondk]

Well, I did pay her back.  When I moved back to my house from Sao Paulo in 1995 I brought a bunch of hardwood planks with me.  I made a lot of my own furniture and had the habbit of running very hard wood through my thickness planer on week days.  It was within legal hours of doing so and she really could do nothing about it.  She called the city code enforcement and they came with the fire department and the police to investigate the complaint.  She alleged that I was running a furniture factory out of my home.  The code folks saw that this was not the case, and ignored her.  About the same time a possum died in a hole under my shed and stunk to high heaven.  This went right into her house.    I think life in the Sub Tropics was just a little much for her.

dk

[polihale]

It's easy to understand the idea that newcomers don't have the right to complain about a new location (I lived in Arizona, for example, during a rush of new arrivals from California, so I can relate to the Florida stories).

But it seems that here in Hawaii (especially lately here on Kauai), the issue is a bit more interesting.

You can see it in the local newspaper's Letters to the Editor. People sometimes say, "I was born and raised here" to give themselves credibility and immunity from criticism. But what about someone who's "only" been here five years? 10 years? 20 years? I moved to Hawaii 17 years ago. Compared to a 16-year old local kid, do I have more rights to complain? Or less? (a rhetorical question, just an example to make you think)

The recent arrival of well-paid white professionals plus the displacement of local families by the rising cost of real estate has resulted in a "Respect The Locals" mentality. It's certainly understandable, but to what extent do you yield to someone simply because they've been here longer? I'm reminded of a tongue-in-cheek joke on Political Correctness: What would you do if an endangered animal was eating an endangered plant? In real life, what would you do if some aspect of local culture was truly wrong or offensive? The moment you complain, it's "Haole Go Home".

A derivative of this observation is my unwillingness to grow exotic foreign palm trees without also advertising the fact that I also grow rare Native Hawaiian palms. Growing rare Native Hawaiian palms is rewarding. But believe me, it's political currency, too. It's a balance between "Respect The Locals" and "hey, this is my home, now, too."

[PALM MOD]

For any of you considering Hawaii and the Big Island specifically, check out this site. It is a forum much like ours, with a lot of information in the same way info is scattered around this site. If you like our Forum and you are interested in moving to Hawaii, you will like this site.

http://www.konaweb.com/forums/moving.cgi

[spockvr6]

Excellent link Mr. Moderator!

I had never heard of this "VOG" before.......anyone on the Big Island have any more info?  

http://www.konaweb.com/vog/index.shtml

[SunnyFl]

(Alan_Tampa @ Jan. 08 2007,12:06)

QUOTE

If it is so great back there, take (here it works) 1-75 north till the bridges have freeze warnings on them and stay there.

Alan

Sorry to be a bit OT, but Alan, I totally agree with you!

It drives me crazy when I hear all these newcomers griping about "missing the change of seasons."  If ya miss it so dang much, there's the interstate.  It'll take you all the way to Chicago where you can shovel all that change-of-seasons to your heart's content.

It is the nature of much of the tropics to have little seasonal variation, which allows the growing of the plants we love.

[Zac in NC]

Sunny- If I don't ever see another winter, it will be too soon. I have endured almost 22 of them in NC and thats enough. One of them was a -7 and thank goodness I was less thana year old for that. I would have been horrified if I really felt that kind of cold in NC. Get me out of here.

Zac

[bgl]

Larry,

the "vog" can be a problem, all depending on where you live on the Big Island. And for those who're not familiar with the term, the 'v' stands for 'volcanic', so instead of 'smog' (for instance) in L.A., we have the 'vog' here. Vog is created by the volcano, and because the tradewinds typically flow in from the norteast (and head in a general SW direction), that's also where the vog goes. Since it all comes from the current eruption from Pu'u O'o on Kilauea's East Rift Zone, the vog typically disappears out over the Pacific Ocean, never to be seen again!  Some of it causes a bit of a problem for the district of Ka'u (extreme southern portion of the Big Island), resulting in poor air quality. If you live east or north (or NE, such as Hilo) of the eruption, the vog is not a problem 95% of the time. But the remaining (approx.) 5% is when we have so called 'Kona winds', and the wind will blow from the opposite direction, causing the vog to invade the Puna and Hilo districts, causing poor visibility and air quality. If you have breathing problems, this may be a concern. I can certainly sense the vog, because it's very obvious, but it won't prevent me from going out on a 6 mile run if that was my plan all along.

Bo-Göran

[DoomsDave]

Oh, yeah, that prejudice thang.

I've heard the horra tales from white folks going to Hawaii in teh seventies in the military, and the advice was "don't go into local bars."  (Black people got messed with worse, from what I heard from some.)

So, I moved to California in 1985, and kept seeing the bumper stickers:  "Welcome to California.  Now go home."

It'll be twenty two years, so I'll handle it.  I guess I can get one of those stickers that says "Californian since 1985" but, well, I'll settle for a hula girl and a fake palm tree in the back of the No-Va.

dave

[doubravsky]

Dean,

there's another forum for the Puna area, although it doesn't look as comprehensive...

Punaweb

[Wai`anae Steve]

I think I posted something like this the last time this came up some years ago.

I arrived on O`ahu just before President Kennedy was killed.  I was 20 years old.  I've been here ever since.

I never had any problem w/locals.  I began to "hang" w/them shortly after arriving.  A bunch of other sailors moved off base and rented a house on the North Shore so we could surf when we were not defending th country from the onslaugths of communism.

One day my neighbor (born in the Phillipines) invited me to go pig hunting w/him and I went.  Now my German father was sort of dark, must have come from so Italian lover climbing over the Alps some years back.     My mother was Jewish and I'm on the dark side of the white race.

With the tan I get quite easly I began to "blend" in right away.  Also growing up in Brooklyn and speaking "rotten" English I again "blended" in.

Needless to say I've never felt unwelcome.  I speak pidgen when I'm w/locals speaking it.  I taught school after attending the U of H at Manoa and never had any problems w/other teachers or students at the University.

I have to admit that the public school system here "sucks".  My oldest daughter (my wife is also white) went thru the local schools and we were not satisfied.  Nubmer 2 daughter went to private schools from pre-school to high school and did much better.  She even managed to graduate from Hollins University in Virginia.

Homes here are expensive as has been stated.  Tipical home lot is most likely aroung 5-6 thousand square feet.  The Ewa plain where much construction is going on is hot and dry and the way they are packing in the homes I bet you'll need ac to cool your home.

I was just on a very high ridge hiking yesterday and there is a lot of vacent land here on the west side.  But I can't say what it might cost.

Rock fever??????????  Never happened.  I hike twice a week now that I'm retired and I can hike for 6-12 hours with out any trouble.  There is always another ridge or valley to explore.

Ya'll come, but bring your money.

[Moose]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2007‎ ‎7‎:‎11‎:‎32‎, SunnyFl said:

 

It sure would.  But the problem isn't just Americans who travel abroad.

 

A woman who moved to New Mexico had relatives who were sad that she was leaving the country.  !!

 

Back a few years ago, when Condoleeza Rice was meeting Latin Americans at the trade conference in Miami, one expressed surprise that she was leaving early.  She explained, "I have to get back to the U.S."

 

Oh.