"NEEDS SHADE WHEN YOUNG"

[LilikoiLee]

This question was inspired by the Socratea post about young Socratea not doing well in sun. I always check Riffle and Craft and other resources before planting and the phrase "Needs shade when young" shows up a lot.

How do you know when a palm is no longer "young" and can handle sun. Is it "determined" by height, age, or some other factor? We have lots of palms that need shade when young, but most of our garden is sunny. We have two solutions for this: Sometimes we go ahead and plant them and put wire cages around them with shade cloth over the top. Other times we just keep repotting them and moving their pots into increasing sunny locations. I am sure "youth" varies from palm to palm, but it would be nice to have a way to know when it is safe to expose a palm to sun.

[Walter John]

This question was inspired by the Socratea post about young Socratea not doing well in sun. I always check Riffle and Craft and other resources before planting and the phrase "Needs shade when young" shows up a lot.

How do you know when a palm is no longer "young" and can handle sun. Is it "determined" by height, age, or some other factor? We have lots of palms that need shade when young, but most of our garden is sunny. We have two solutions for this: Sometimes we go ahead and plant them and put wire cages around them with shade cloth over the top. Other times we just keep repotting them and moving their pots into increasing sunny locations. I am sure "youth" varies from palm to palm, but it would be nice to have a way to know when it is safe to expose a palm to sun.

Study the palm's cultivational history and it's natural habitat. Is it naturally occurring in open areas, in full sun as an adult etc. It's all about the species as well as age. That's my two bobs worth.

[Dypsisdean]

Lee,

This is not as easy to answer as you might expect. Not all "sun" is created equal. In other words, not all "open exposure" is created equal. You and I have a much "friendlier" full "sun" than most locations. The always high humidity, always mild temp, and almost always afternoon cloud cover, is radically different than California "open exposure" that saw blazing 100+ degrees F (and 10% humidity) not to long ago, followed by temps in the 30s F for those exposed palms. These conditions fry even mature palms, and could certainly kill young sensitive palms right out of a greenhouse. Those conditions never exist in your climate. And don't forget, shade in nature (and gardens) also moderates night time temps, raises humidity, and provides some protection from wind.

So your answer depends as much on where you are, as the age, height, or species. And of course it aslo depends greatly on where the palm has spent the last couple of years of it's young life - an always dark greenhouse, or partial morning sun.

[LilikoiLee]

Lee,

This is not as easy to answer as you might expect. Not all "sun" is created equal. In other words, not all "open exposure" is created equal. You and I have a much "friendlier" full "sun" than most locations. The always high humidity, always mild temp, and almost always afternoon cloud cover, is radically different than California "open exposure" that saw blazing 100+ degrees F (and 10% humidity) not to long ago, followed by temps in the 30s F for those exposed palms. These conditions fry even mature palms, and could certainly kill young sensitive palms right out of a greenhouse. Those conditions never exist in your climate. And don't forget, shade in nature (and gardens) also moderates night time temps, raises humidity, and provides some protection from wind.

So your answer depends as much on where you are, as the age, height, or species. And of course it aslo depends greatly on where the palm has spent the last couple of years of it's young life - an always dark greenhouse, or partial morning sun.

Mucho mahalos, Dean. That helped a lot. I always think of Kona as having horrendous full sun. (Feels that way when we're out there digging holes.) Since we buy most of our palms in Hilo, we try to acclimate them before planting, but when a 10 or 15 G palm is bursting out of its pot or bag, we need to get it into the ground instead of a 20 G pot that we won't be able to move later. So far, we've been lucky with this and your answer explained why.

[Dypsisdean]

Lee,

This is not as easy to answer as you might expect. Not all "sun" is created equal. In other words, not all "open exposure" is created equal. You and I have a much "friendlier" full "sun" than most locations. The always high humidity, always mild temp, and almost always afternoon cloud cover, is radically different than California "open exposure" that saw blazing 100+ degrees F (and 10% humidity) not to long ago, followed by temps in the 30s F for those exposed palms. These conditions fry even mature palms, and could certainly kill young sensitive palms right out of a greenhouse. Those conditions never exist in your climate. And don't forget, shade in nature (and gardens) also moderates night time temps, raises humidity, and provides some protection from wind.

So your answer depends as much on where you are, as the age, height, or species. And of course it aslo depends greatly on where the palm has spent the last couple of years of it's young life - an always dark greenhouse, or partial morning sun.

Mucho mahalos, Dean. That helped a lot. I always think of Kona as having horrendous full sun. (Feels that way when we're out there digging holes.) Since we buy most of our palms in Hilo, we try to acclimate them before planting, but when a 10 or 15 G palm is bursting out of its pot or bag, we need to get it into the ground instead of a 20 G pot that we won't be able to move later. So far, we've been lucky with this and your answer explained why.

You're welcome Lee. We have a more friendly open exposure than most anywhere else in the world. But having said that, I have still had trouble with Socretea roots, and small (1-2 ft,) Lemureophoenix, and Carpoxylon in full sun here. And many understory tropicals will still not look their best if not given some shade. But most 5-15 gal large palms can fend for themselves in full sun around here.

[MattyB]

I guess it depends on what elevation you're at there too. I remember how the beach was hot hot 90's hot, and by the time we got up to Dean's it was usually upper 70's, low 80's.

[amazondk]

I am far from an expert on palms. But, I have observed where Socreteas grow natively around here. They will be found only in forested areas, normally more in primary forest. They do emerge from the canopy depending on the location. And, they are found in moister locations of the forest. That is near stream beds and in low areas which collect more water. They are not found in the water like Mauritias and some others. Most if not all primary forest trees here do much better when in the shade while young. I guess that is expected in a mature forest. Our sun here is real brutal. But, it is always humid and for about 8 months of the year it clouds up at some time during the day and frequently rains. The dry season when the temperatures can hit 105 F and there are few clouds is when plams not acustomed to much sun get fried. I have notice that Euterpes, which are native to forest areas and do well when shaded when you acutally do ok in full sun when young as long as they get establhished well by having enough water. I planted a few small ones last rainy season, about February and the made it through this years dry season with few problems. And, it was real hot and dry this year.

dk

[DoomsDave]

Lee:

You've touched on a great question.

As Wal touched upon, and Dean elaborated, the answer is: it depends. Hawaii is way different from California.

For Californians, I offer a few rules of thumb:

"Young" means before the plant begins to trunk. That said, be careful about putting a newly trunking specimen of a rainforest palm out in the sun before it can be acclimated.

I've found that forest palms often need shade when small, and develop sun-loving tendencies as they get big enough to rise above the canopy. Many of the really prized Dypsis seem like this.

The closer to the ocean, the more likely a sun-hating or -disliking palm is to forgive a mistake and grow in the sun anyway. Rhopalystylus and Howea are good examples of this. So are Clinostigmas, Dictyosperma, and other tropical types.

Also be careful with a sun-loving palm that's been grown in the shade its whole life. Livistona chinensis gets this cool, airy look in the shade, but burns badly in full sun, sometimes so badly that they die before they can acclimate.

Hmm. More to think about . . . .

[realarch]

I agree it depends on where you live. After having lived in San Diego for so long I knew what full exposure could do to plants from fry to freeze, but here in Hilo just about everything gets a full dose of overhead space. There are a few

instances like the posts on the 'Socratea' thread and my Iriartea and Wettinia burned for awhile, but are now starting to acclimate. It's been a bit of a struggle for those two though, but I agree with Matty's post about not being afraid to plant some things

in full sun.

I was kind of surprised that all of my Areca have done well in full to part sun especially guppyana, macrocaylx, caliso, triandra, vestiaria, and even catachu 'alba'. I do have some shady spots though and try take full advantage of every inch.