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repotting rootbound palms


cencalpalmguy

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There is a huge tree nursery nearby that is going out of business. There are probably hundreds of chamerops humilis and trachies in 15 gallon pots for less than $20 a piece. The only thing is that they should have been re-potted several years ago. One I bought last year had busted out of the pot and was almost nothing but roots. Reading Glenn's post about his rootbound archies not growing well after planted, i was wondering how to avoid this. I was considering buying a few more of these and planting them in 24" crates for now. What do you guys think? What is the best way to re-establish them? Slice the roots and hope they grow outward? Should I use superthrive or some type of rooting hormone afterward? I couldn't even pull the roots apart with my hands last time and it never looked good afterward. Thanks for your input.

Chad

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Well, thinking about it, try some. You have little to lose.

Most palms take post-pot-bound planting well.

My big archie was a pot-bound special, and, well, it seems not to care today. 30 feet tall at last view, this morning.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Dave, I intend on buying a few (or as many as the boss will let me)just wondering if cutting the roots was the answer or if there is a better solution.

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Sorry.

I wouldn't cut roots, unless they're so mega rootbound they won't fit in any container.

I'd move them into a larger pot, maybe two or three sizes larger, water them and behold the glorious reneissance, or however you spell it.

Palms, as a group are tougher than [pick your most hated expletive] in the right environment.

Plant today, worry tomorrow, usually.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Do not cut the roots! I repeat, put down the knife and step away from the palm! :unsure: Palms are perfectly fine being rootbound. Pot them up or plant them in the ground and they'll be very happy. Don't "tease" the roots or anything, they'll figure it out themselves.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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I agree with Matty. Most palms like being root bound before planting out or repotting. Cutting or trying to untangle the roots would be counterproductive. Some of my most vigorous big palms were very root bound before being put in the ground compared to the more sparsely rooted ones.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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There is a huge tree nursery nearby that is going out of business. There are probably hundreds of chamerops humilis and trachies in 15 gallon pots for less than $20 a piece. The only thing is that they should have been re-potted several years ago. One I bought last year had busted out of the pot and was almost nothing but roots. Reading Glenn's post about his rootbound archies not growing well after planted, i was wondering how to avoid this. I was considering buying a few more of these and planting them in 24" crates for now. What do you guys think? What is the best way to re-establish them? Slice the roots and hope they grow outward? Should I use superthrive or some type of rooting hormone afterward? I couldn't even pull the roots apart with my hands last time and it never looked good afterward. Thanks for your input.

Chad

Cut or slice roots, no, disrupt the roots as little as possible. The A cunninghamiana post was a response to the different growth rates of 4 plants planted at the same time and that the plants that were root bound to the point that there was almost no soil grew more slowly than those that were less root bound.

Sorry to hear another nursery is going out of business. Good luck to you.

Glenn

Modesto, California

 

Sunset Zone 14   USDA 9b

 

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990         

 

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

 

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.

 

             

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I did an experiment with two 25gal L. saribus this past spring both were extremely root bound , I placed one straight in the ground and the other I trimmed off all the dead roots . The one that went straight in the ground has shown no sign of growth ,looks bad & may not live. The one I gave a good root trimming has put on new growth and looks great.

Edited by Gallop

Paul Gallop

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It think it will depend on what palms... Some don't mind getting root proned, some would... A lady who used to run a nursery here always told me to root prune before repoting. She believed all the 'dead' roots would allow disease to attack the palms. I have to say, she was very successful in growing most stuff.... Take this as you want... I was just relaying experience. At the end of the day, you have to make the decision yourself...

Regards, Ari :)

Ari & Scott

Darwin, NT, Australia

-12°32'53" 131°10'20"

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My preference would be to NOT cut the roots. Adventitious roots erupt higher on the stem than the previous ones and will grow around the perimeter of the rootball. One common problem with neglected and overgrown palms is that the center of the congested roots is often completely dry. If the plants are still nominally a 15 gallon volume then you should soak them for at least 24 hours in a larger container so that the rootball is completely submerged. Then re-pot larger, or better still, plant now in the ground. Chamaerops is extremely tough and there is no problem ground planting at this time of year.

What if you can't locate a larger watertight container? Use a larger plastic pot and a heavy duty garbage bag as a liner between the 15 gallon pot and the larger one. Good luck!

San Francisco, California

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Gallop and Ari are both talking about root pruning, but notice that they're talking about pruning only "dead" roots. If they're dead already you're not hurting the plant at all; maybe even opening it up a bit to allow the other roots to expand, I'm not sure on that. But Darold has explained how the new roots are going to perform and that old rootball isn't gonna matter when those new roots start to form. Especially with hardy palms like Chamerops.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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This is veering off the topic but why is it that many gardeners employed at parks and resorts here regularly cut roots of large roystonea. I have asked this before but in a different context (i e whether they could cause damage). The feedback all these guys give me is that pruning the exposed roots stimulate newer more healthy root growth (the external roots usually dry with time). Is this all nonsense or does it have a scientific basis ?

____________________

Kumar

Bombay, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 23 - 32 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 3400.0 mm

Calcutta, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 19 - 33 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 1600.0 mm

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I think it's nonsense. They probably prune for the looks. How can cutting roots help the plant in anyway?

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Roots? Did you say roots? Love 'em!

Make sure the new location, pot or ground, has the soil VERY firmly packed and never gets dry (Paul?).

If the roots are comming out the bottom of the pot try to cut the pot, not the roots.

I like to add fertilizer to the new soil only. Mix it in good.

I DIG PALMS

Call me anytime to chat about transplanting palms.

305-345-8918

https://www.facebook...KenJohnsonPalms

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Thanks for all the advice guys. I will probably have to cut the pots off the rootbound palms. Maybe then I'll soak them in a rubbermaid trashcan with some rooting hormone or organic fert and replant them.

Chad

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Don't waste too much time on them. Just rip them out of the pots and plant/repot them. They're bullet proof.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Funny true story.

I was listening to a local radio show on gardening, (4KZ)

When a lady rang in complaining, that the palm in the middle of her lawn

was always sick even thought she had taken nothing but the best care of it

Anyway as the announcer eventually teased the good care treatment out of her,

it turned out that she must have been a rose lover, as she religiously dug

the palm up each spring, trimmed its roots and replanted it :lol:

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Chamaerops are tough palms, they are also happy in containers. I like Ken Johnsons advice, cut the pot off with a carpet knife(get the blades that are only sharp in the "slot" so it wont cut roots) and replant as per Ken. Many palms just hate having their roots cut. I remember reading in a University of FLorida hort article that a severed root led to a total death of that root back to the trunk in some palms, but not in others. If I remember the article correctly, severed roots in butias die all the way back, and livistonas dont. Its been a long time since I read that article, but they actually severed roots and measured the results over time, livistona decora was the livistona species tested.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Chamaerops are tough palms, they are also happy in containers. I like Ken Johnsons advice, cut the pot off with a carpet knife(get the blades that are only sharp in the "slot" so it wont cut roots) and replant as per Ken. Many palms just hate having their roots cut. I remember reading in a University of FLorida hort article that a severed root led to a total death of that root back to the trunk in some palms, but not in others. If I remember the article correctly, severed roots in butias die all the way back, and livistonas dont. Its been a long time since I read that article, but they actually severed roots and measured the results over time, livistona decora was the livistona species tested.

Butias don't mind cut roots at all, but cut Sabal roots will die back. I bought some really root bound Braheas with lots of dead roots, and just plunked them in the ground or larger containers and they are doing great. I wouldn't worry about prepping them at all. Just get them out of the containers without damaging them, and repot/plant them.

Martin Farris, San Angelo, TX

San Angelo Cold Hardy Palms and Cycads

Jul - 92F/69F, Jan - 55F/31F

Lows:

02-03: 18F;

03-04: 19F;

04-05: 17F;

05-06: 11F;

06-07: 13F;

07-08: 14F 147.5 Freezing Degree-Hours http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...ee+hours\;

08-09: 23F;

09-10: 12F 467.6 Freezing Degree Hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 24.2F;

10-11: 13F 1,059.5 Freezing Degree Hours with Strong Winds/Rain/Snow/Sleet, Average Temperature During Freeze 19.4F;

Record low -4F in 1989 (High of 36F that p.m.) 1,125.2 freezing degree hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.6F;

Record Freeze 1983: 2,300.3 Freezing Degree Hours with a low of 5F, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.7F.

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I found what I think was the article it was at UCLA and Don Hodel was one of the authors:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/fletcher/programs/nursery/metria/metria11/pittenger/index.html

here is an excerpt from the conclusions:

"Root regeneration was minimal for nearly a year in Trachycarpus fortunei, Phoenix reclinata, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Serenoa repens, Sabal minor, Rhapidophyllum hystrix, and Butia capitata. New roots in the trench during any 3-month period (season) were lowest, never exceeding 70 in the trench, for Archontophoenix, Serenoa, Rhapidophyllum, Butia, and Brahea. Relatively high numbers of new roots were produced (100+ in the trench) in one or more 3-month periods in both Trachycarpus species, both Phoenix species, Syagrus, Washingtonia, Chamaerops, and Livistona decipiens. "

Hence the butias are slow to regenerate roots and livistona(as stated in an earlier post above) and chamaerops were fast.

So I would say chamaerops are quickly adapting to root cuts... based on this study where the density of root regeneration was measured.

Here is another article on the regrowth of palm roots and their dying back after severing:

http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=1960&Type=2

interesting conclusion:

"In summary, cut root branching response varies

among species of palms. Percentage of branched

roots increases with increasing root length in

queen and royal palms so that larger root balls are

desirable for branching and continued growth of

old roots. Root length had no observable effect on

branching in coconut and cabbage palms with half

of all cut roots branching in coconuts and virtually

none branching in cabbage palms. New roots

were initiated from the trunks of all four palms at a

rate inversely proportional to the ability of that

species to regenerate severed root tips. Root

pruning 2-3 months prior to moving the palms is

important for species such as royal and cabbage

palms in which root branching may be minimal and

new root production extensive, but is also helpful

for coconut and queen palms which produce

some new roots following root pruning.

Edited by sonoranfans

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Like everybody says. don't cut the roots...the cut roots will not grow again, and the palm will need to grow new roots, possibly losing vigor for a while. I try to pull the roots apart, which is difficult in larger seriously rootbound palms, then pull the old roots to the side, leaving an open area for the new roots directly under the palm.

Gig 'Em Ags!

 

David '88

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  • 11 years later...

I can't figure out how to start a new thread so just replying to this one with an issue I'm hoping for advice on... I've got a seriously pot bound date palm and I don't know what to do. I have a bigger pot to repot it in to but I cannot get it out the current pot without cutting off the roots. The general advice seems to be not to mess with the roots... The palm is currently healthy but the roots keep on growing! What should I do? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

IMAG5401.jpg

Edited by Lynsey
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Ceramic or plastic ?  Break or cut the pot.   :winkie:

  • Upvote 1

San Francisco, California

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50 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Ceramic or plastic ?  Break or cut the pot.   :winkie:

This

 

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7 hours ago, Lynsey said:

I can't figure out how to start a new thread so just replying to this one with an issue I'm hoping for advice on... I've got a seriously pot bound date palm and I don't know what to do. I have a bigger pot to repot it in to but I cannot get it out the current pot without cutting off the roots. The general advice seems to be not to mess with the roots... The palm is currently healthy but the roots keep on growing! What should I do? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

It looks like a standard plastic nursery pot.  I would take a box knife with a fresh sharp blade and slice down the side of the pot in a convenient spot.  Don't cut deep, just deep enough to cut the pot but not cut too many roots.  Then slice around the perimeter of the bottom and peel off most of the pot.  Cut between the drainage holes in the bottom to remove the rest of the bottom in several pieces.  Just don't slice off any fingertips!

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