Butia capitata

[Bilbo]

Please dont all yawn at once but I have fruited a B.capitata and thats nothing to be excited about I know.

My first Pindo went into the ground in 1994  6' tall and it is a  pleasant quite bluey specimen now 8' and was from Architectural Plants and sourced fron Northen Italy from I believe a seedling from Sicily.

It looks pleasant enough and is healthy. So nothing special there then.

My second Pindo is different and how!

It comes from Martin Gibbons at the Palm Centre and was imported from Florida and note it was planted 2 years later in 1996.

It now has an area of mature trunk with diameter in excess of 2' and is well over twice the height of specimen one.

In other words its real fast.

Although it often flowers and sets fruit they are immature and have dropped until now for it has bproduced over 300 fair size fruit and the seed looks good.

I shall send some to RBG Kew

Most I have saved for my friend Nigel who after all is in the palm business and I will also send some to a US nursery.

Maybe Im wrong but it does seem fast to me and remeber guys this is unprotected in a British climate.

Will be interesting to see how fast this will be in a warmer climate. No possibility of cross pollination here.

Regardez

Juan

[Exotic Life]

That's very nice to hear... I have planted a Butia capitata this year ... so i can't say what the grow speed from mine is.

Do you have some picture's of that speedy palm form you ?

[Nigel]

Juan, Tony King has just posted pics on the EPS forum of his cappie and it also has produced a good crop of seeds, which I imagine are like yours.

It just shows what an amazingly extended autumn we had this year ,although you wouldnt tell from todays day long freeze under freezing fog !!

Lets hope and pray the seeds are the result of compatible pollen and not just hard `stones `.

[Bilbo]

Good luck Robbin with that B.cap over there!

Nigel you are right to be cautious hence the first small batch will be for Kew and they will tell me for sure if I have made a boo boo or not!

I spoke with Martin last night and he is interested in the fast rate of growth for a UK specimen.

Without being ultra critical and much as I admire the Victorian and Edwardian planters of B.cap the results are frankly dire IMO with the possible exception of Tresco.

Regardez

Juan

[Fred Zone 10A]

Please dont all yawn at once but I have fruited a B.capitata and thats nothing to be excited about I know.

Au contraire!  I have about 100 species of palms in my gardens, but my very favorite is the pindo.  It's not rare, but it sure is pretty.

I have three Butia capitata in my garden and each is different.  I bought all three as large plants (in 75 cm. boxes) and picked the most grey leaved ones available.  I know that the color of pindo leaves varies from dark green to almost silver green.  What distinguishes my pindos is their growth habit.  The two oldest have grown quite fast in the three years they have been in the ground.  One has a very open look and the other has leaves that are much closer together.  The difference was not caused by more or less exposure to the sun, since each had its look when I purchased it and they were raised in the same nursery under the same growing conditions.  It is too early to comment on the third pindo, which I planted just this spring.

The pindo with the open look flowered and set fruit (which the squirrels ate) in 2004, but didn't flower again until 2006.  The more compact one first flowered in 2005 with three spathes (I think that's the term) and had copious seed.  I sent 100 seeds to Kevin Weaver, but I recall him telling me most didn't germinate.  It flowered and fruited again in 2006 with four spathes and lots of fruit, some of which the dog ate.  I cut off the dry seed bracts in October and darn if it didn't flower again early this month!

This weekend I'll try to remember to take some photos of the three pindos and post them.  Hey!  That sounds like the name for a TV series:  "My Three Pindos".

I'd like to plant other Butia species, but I only have room for the really small ones and they are impossible to obtain here.

[Carlo Morici]

Bilbo,

There must be a lot of diversity within the species. Maybe you have been lucky enough to find a better individual for your climate. Sometimes friends call me because they have seen a B.capitata for sale with blue or silvery leaves or because one of their B.capitata is producing small and tasteless fruits while their other bigger fruited one is being used by the granma for jellies... diversity exists!

Fred,

Why "Pindo" for Butia? In Argentina, as far as I know, they use "Pindó" for S.romanzoffiana and "Butiá" for Butia spp.

Carlo

[Exotic Life]

(Bilbo @ Dec. 21 2006,07:50)

QUOTE

Good luck Robbin with that B.cap over there!

Nigel you are right to be cautious hence the first small batch will be for Kew and they will tell me for sure if I have made a boo boo or not!

I spoke with Martin last night and he is interested in the fast rate of growth for a UK specimen.

Without being ultra critical and much as I admire the Victorian and Edwardian planters of B.cap the results are frankly dire IMO with the possible exception of Tresco.

Regardez

Juan

Thanks Juan,

Here is a pic of my Butia capitata. This pic is from last November.

[Fred Zone 10A]

Why "Pindo" for Butia? In Argentina, as far as I know, they use "Pindó" for S.romanzoffiana and "Butiá" for Butia spp.

Carlo,

Why indeed?  Both "pindo" and "jelly palm" are used in the U. S.  Personally, I prefer "butiá,"  but my palm-growing friends here all say either "bútia" or "butía."  So I just say "pindo."  To my wife I say, "Lo jai ju cuñataí porá."

[Gaston in Argentina]

(Fred Zone 10A @ Dec. 21 2006,13:50)

QUOTE

Why "Pindo" for Butia? In Argentina, as far as I know, they use "Pindó" for S.romanzoffiana and "Butiá" for Butia spp.

Carlo,

Why indeed?  Both "pindo" and "jelly palm" are used in the U. S.  Personally, I prefer "butiá,"  but my palm-growing friends here all say either "bútia" or "butía."  So I just say "pindo."  To my wife I say, "Lo jai ju cuñataí porá."

Fred.

You told "Aña menguí porá?" or "yajá parenó cauite" ?

Dont sound well :-)

Just cassualy im finnishing an investigation job of the extint camiare language that was spoken here before the spaniards and jesuits, sound strange:Im going now to the Sierras de "Achala" also to "Cacapiche" and later to "Chaquinchuna" passing for "Ctalamochita" to "Salsacate" "Ischilín", "Ninalquín" "Condor huasi",

"Rumi Huasi" "Milacnavira" Nogolma" and ¨Panaholma"

Im sure you know some of this locations :-)

Feliz navidad mi amigo

Gaston

[Fred Zone 10A]

Feliz navidad mi amigo

Y una muy feliz Navidad para vos, también.  Mi hijo fue a Mendoza a pasar las fiestas.

Returning to the butiá, here are two photos of different forms.

The first is of what I call the "open" form of the common pindo.  It was taken this afternoon in my garden.

The second is of the "Strictior" form.  It was taken yesterday at the Huntington Botanical Gardens.

This afternoon I tried to take a photo of a third form, which I call the "closed" form, but the light was bad.  I'll try tomorrow.

[Kev Spence]

Nice palms Fred is that second pic not Butia capitata var "strictor"??

kev

[Exotic Life]

(Kev Spence @ Dec. 24 2006,05:48)

QUOTE

Nice palms Fred is that second pic not Butia capitata var "strictor"??

kev

Nice !!

I was also thinking with see this pictures to the strictor form ...

Robbin

[Palmhut1]

Boring.....hmmm Butia's are not boring. It's funny how different palms will turn palm people either on or off. Butia Cap is one of the palms that started me. I fact it's the palm from Gonzer's post a few days ago that I said, hmmm going to get me one .... two Ok OK a few of those. I only have one in the ground right now, but Fred I hope one day mine will look like yours.

[Fred Zone 10A]

Here is a photo of the more "closed" form of B. capitata, taken early this morning.  The total height is about 4 meters.

And here is the same palm taken from a different angle.  The two stakes were used to attempt to straighten the palm after last January's Santa Ana winds, which had gusts of 100 mph (160 km/hr).  This particular palm was leaning at nearly a 30 degree angle.  Even with the stakes it's still not completely vertical.

[palmaddict]

Speaking of Butia capitata variation, several weeks ago I bought this 20 gallon Butia that the nursery described as a "compact" form.  It is nearly sterile producing limited seeds, has a shorter fronds, has a higher density of fronds, and grows slower than other forms of Butia capitata.  The fronds are also stiff and brittle.

Patrick

[Alberto]

(Fred Zone 10A @ Dec. 21 2006,13:50)

QUOTE

Why "Pindo" for Butia? In Argentina, as far as I know, they use "Pindó" for S.romanzoffiana and "Butiá" for Butia spp.

Carlo,

Why indeed?  Both "pindo" and "jelly palm" are used in the U. S.  Personally, I prefer "butiá,"  but my palm-growing friends here all say either "bútia" or "butía."  So I just say "pindo."  To my wife I say, "Lo jai ju cuñataí porá."

Fred,"Lo jai ju cuñataí porá",is that guarani????

[Alberto]

Maybe not all forum members have seen this topic  on the old forum about the variability of B.eriospatha:

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....ospatha

[Fred Zone 10A]

Fred,"Lo jai ju cuñataí porá",is that guarani?

Yes.  One of the few phrases I learned when I visited Paraguary in 1968.

[PalmGuyWC]

I have 8 Butias and they all have a different apperance, and 3 are Butia capitata that came from the same source.  One doesn't hold many fronds and has a very open apperance and it's flowers are cream colered.  Another is rather massive, holds lots of fronds and has wine colored flowers.  It's unusual because the fruit, before it ripens, is green on the top and red or wine colored on the lower half.  We gave it a nick-name of Strawberry because of the beautiful fruit.  When ripe it turns orange like the rest. The fruit is quite tastey too.

I have another butia that came from the "Chunta" reigon of Argentina.  It's my prettiest one and is silver blue, holds many fronds and the leaf blades are narrow and more of them than the other butias.  We think it's Butia yata.

My feeling is that there are many variations in the palm faimly.  Consider Rhapis and Chamaehrops with their many different forms.  Why not the same for Butias and Trithrinax?  There was another thread discussing Trithrinax and it's different forms and confussion of species.

Dick

[SunnyFl]

(Alberto @ Dec. 24 2006,14:41)

QUOTE

Maybe not all forum members have seen this topic  on the old forum about the variability of B.eriospatha:

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....ospatha

Thanks for posting the link.  Very nice photos of the eriospatha.  Those palms look so stately, I wonder why we don't see more of them.  And with the increasing reports of date palms' decline all over FL, why don't landscapers switch to B. eriospatha?  It certainly is bold in the landscape, like the date palms.

A question about eriospatha - do they have edible fruit like capitata?

[PalmGuyWC]

Ahhh,

While on the subject, most seem to agree that Jubaea is the most cold hardy pinnate palm, followed by the various Butias.  Anyone have any ideas what would be the 3rd, 4th, and 5th next cold hardy?

I keep hearing about the "Silver Queen" which is supposed to be more hardy than the "normal" Queen palm.  There is quite a bit of variation in Queen palms too.

Dick

[Exotic Life]

Nice to see that 3 forms from a B.capitata. I have the open form ... if i see this three picture's !

[Nigel]

(PalmGuyWC @ Dec. 24 2006,21:45)

QUOTE

Ahhh,

While on the subject, most seem to agree that Jubaea is the most cold hardy pinnate palm, followed by the various Butias.  Anyone have any ideas what would be the 3rd, 4th, and 5th next cold hardy?

I keep hearing about the "Silver Queen" which is supposed to be more hardy than the "normal" Queen palm.  There is quite a bit of variation in Queen palms too.

Dick

Here in the UK, I think it would be safe to say that CIDP is hardier than a queen palm.

[Alberto]

(SunnyFl @ Dec. 24 2006,21:39)

QUOTE

A question about eriospatha - do they have edible fruit like capitata?

Take a look at the link! The fruits are delicious. I don´t know the  taste of the capitatas and I had not received any answer about the question>>´which one you prefer´?

[Alicehunter2000]

Here is my oddball Butia, really wide leaflets.

David

[Alicehunter2000]

Closeup of the leaf. At least 2X wider than any other butia I have seen.

David

[Bilbo]

What to call them?

Simple: on a Bienniel most members are from the States so I say Pindo.

Here in Europe I say Jelly.

Regardez

Juan