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Red Palm weevils found in Laguna Beach, CA

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Ferry

Some answers regarding sanitation :

There is no need at all to cut below the end of the galleries. It is always better to reduce just to the needs the leaves bases cutting to facilitate the recovery and also to assure a better protection to the terminal bud. From February to September, the sanitation can be as deep as need but in autumn and half winter the sanitation must be a bit lighter because leaves growth is much slower and the main risk of failure of sanitation is rot development. For this period, central leaves have to be shortened but if possible leaving 20 cm above the sanitized top. The last galleries instead to need cutting deeper the leaves bases can be filled with an insecticide solution.

Sanitized palms constitute a preferential target for the migrating weevils. This preferential attraction is very strong during the first hours and the first days. Then it decrease but remains for 2 to 3 weeks. So sanitized palms must be treated immediately with systemic insecticides. At the difference with adult leaves where they don’t penetrate (too much cutin), systemic insecticides penetrate easily in the fresh tissues of the cut leaves bases. Of course, the sanitized palms as well as all the palms around must be then protected from new infestation till all the infested palms of the area have been discovered (inspection windows, frequent control) and sanitized.

A quick answer to Kris. Her reaction is usual from persons who do not understand well the morphology and the anatomy of palms and who don’t know well what is the difference between leaves, branches and trunks. Mechanical sanitation does not affect at all neither the terminal bud neither the trunk of the palms. Consequently the risks indicated by Kris are totally inexistent. Furthermore, the stress resulting of sanitation is so limited that leaves growth resumes immediately after the operation.

Michel

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Ferry

High concern after the discovery of palm infested by the red palm weevil in California

Michel Ferry

INRA

Email: m.ferry@telefonica.net

In august of this year, trimmers found in Laguna Beach that a drying Phoenix canariensis that they planned to remove was infested by a weevil. Early in October, it was officially confirmed that this weevil was Rhynchophorus ferrugineus. In the same area, another infested Phoenix canariensis has been detected in november. These two palms were already established for a long time. Consequently, they have been infested by flying weevils coming from other infested ones. Furthermore, they have been detected at a very forward stage of infestation and, so have had enough time to become intense dispersal focus of the pest. The pest is certainly present in this area for at least one year. All the palms around the virulent spot of Laguna Beach have to be considered as infested.

This situation is very worrying because the red palm weevil is killer of many palm species. It has destroyed millions of date palms and coconuts in Asia and Middle East. In Europe where it has been introduced and dispersed at a large scale with the importation of half million of ornamental date palms from Egypt, it has infested several hundred thousands of Phoenix canariensis in less than five years. It is specially attracted by this specie that constitutes one of dominant palms planted in the public and private gardens in many municipalities of Europe as well as USA. The red palm weevil can kill Phoenix canariensis, whatever its size in less than one year. This palm constitutes also a fantastic incubator in which it will multiply by several tens every 4 months. In less than one year, more than one thousand as a minimum will escape from an infested palms to infest new ones.

Face as such a mortal threat, urgency measures must be adopted to eradicate this pest as soon as possible. Eradication, as it has been largely demonstrated in Europe, is the only solution to avoid a landscape disaster of high dimension and high cost. For France only, the direct cost of such disaster (removing and replacement of the dead palms) has been estimated at more than 500 million Euros. In USA, the active palms nursery sector is also threatened. Furthermore, as containment of this pest is impossible in regions where ornamental palms create a continuum, this red palm weevil could reach the date palm groves of California that would be a catastrophe.

The success of eradication is based on early detection of infested palms followed by their immediate sanitation first to avoid the pest dispersal or to stop it and secondly to save the infested palms. Fortunately, the mode of infestation of this pest on Phoenix canariensis leads inevitably and rapidly to the apparition of visible symptoms. Everybody can learn how to look for these symptoms. Urgent training must organized on this issue accompanied by intense and repeated campaigns to mobilize all the palms owners and professionals. As the palms will have to be checked frequently during at least 4 months, this mobilization is absolutely indispensable. It must be part of an integrated eradication strategy involving other elements like mechanical sanitation, mass trapping and preventive treatments.

The discovery of the red palm weevil in Laguna Beach raises the serious question of its possible introduction in other places in California and more generally in the USA. Unfortunately and curiously, it has been only on January 25 this year that a Federal Import Quarantine Order has been issued to forbid the importation of palms in the USA? In 2002 in Palms 46 (4), we insisted on the importance to forbid the international trade of palms because it is totally impossible to control their phytosanitary state with regard to various mortal pests. It is now too late to moan but, because of the existing risk of introduction of this pest in other places in the USA, information and vigilance campaigns should be realized in all the states where palms constitute an important element of the urban landscape.

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Nigel

Perhaps this pest will not be such a disaster as everybody thinks in south america.

I was talking to a nursery friend today , apparently many large trunked Phoenix Canariensis have been smuggled into Brasil from Uruguay in the last 3 or 4 years and it seems these are now dieing by the hand of the native palm weevil here. Bismarckias too apparently are a favoured choice.

I always found it very odd that here in Brasil , colonised by Portuguese, old Phoenix canariensis was largely absent.

There are a few old Phoenix dactyliferas dotted around.

I now suspect that Phoenix canariensis is largely absent in Brasil because of the fact it is vulnerable to weevil attacks.

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Alberto

Perhaps this pest will not be such a disaster as everybody thinks in south america.

I was talking to a nursery friend today , apparently many large trunked Phoenix Canariensis have been smuggled into Brasil from Uruguay in the last 3 or 4 years and it seems these are now dieing by the hand of the native palm weevil here. Bismarckias too apparently are a favoured choice.

I always found it very odd that here in Brasil , colonised by Portuguese, old Phoenix canariensis was largely absent.

There are a few old Phoenix dactyliferas dotted around.

I now suspect that Phoenix canariensis is largely absent in Brasil because of the fact it is vulnerable to weevil attacks.

Nigel,

I think that P.canariensis are practically absent because they were not planted in high numbers. All (few)the big CIDP that i know here,in Ponta Grossa or Curitiba since childhood are healthy and growing and I don´t know any old P.cariensis that died....:rolleyes:

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Ron Vanderhoff

Dr. Mark Hoddle and his team at The Center for Invasive Species Research (CISR) have just added another post on their blog associated with their website. I suspect that every reader here would also find this site very useful.

My link

Today's post discusses the second infested CIDP in Laguna Beach, its removal and dissection.

This blog is administered by some of the leading experts involved in this issue. Dr. Hoddle and others have been quite responsive to my inquiries and I strongly encourage IPS members to post questions there as well as here. At present, this CISR blog is one of the only conduits for the public, palm enthusiasts and others to interact directly with some of the top PRW researchers in the U.S. These are some of the people who are making decisions re: this infestation.

I have made it a habit to check this UC blog regularly, and suggest each of you do as well. I have been surprised about the lack of questions posed on this site.

Ron

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John in Andalucia

I have been surprised about the lack of questions posed on this site.

Ron, I posed a question 8 posts back, to which you followed up with a post about radio masts disguised as palm trees. If you don't even so much as acknowledge posts with question marks, on such a serious topic, nobody on the forum will give it much thought either. It's not just opinions that should be addressed. A simple, "yes" "no" or "not sure at this point" would suffice.

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Nigel

Perhaps this pest will not be such a disaster as everybody thinks in south america.

I was talking to a nursery friend today , apparently many large trunked Phoenix Canariensis have been smuggled into Brasil from Uruguay in the last 3 or 4 years and it seems these are now dieing by the hand of the native palm weevil here. Bismarckias too apparently are a favoured choice.

I always found it very odd that here in Brasil , colonised by Portuguese, old Phoenix canariensis was largely absent.

There are a few old Phoenix dactyliferas dotted around.

I now suspect that Phoenix canariensis is largely absent in Brasil because of the fact it is vulnerable to weevil attacks.

Nigel,

I think that P.canariensis are practically absent because they were not planted in high numbers. All (few)the big CIDP that i know here,in Ponta Grossa or Curitiba since childhood are healthy and growing and I don´t know any old P.cariensis that died....:rolleyes:

alberto, I also thought same as you.... but it is very odd. Maybe there in the mountains the weevil cant kill a canariensis, but here, many many are dieing.

odd that you have big old ones there, but here....nothing.

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Ron Vanderhoff

I have been surprised about the lack of questions posed on this site.

Ron, I posed a question 8 posts back, to which you followed up with a post about radio masts disguised as palm trees. If you don't even so much as acknowledge posts with question marks, on such a serious topic, nobody on the forum will give it much thought either. It's not just opinions that should be addressed. A simple, "yes" "no" or "not sure at this point" would suffice.

John,

My apologies. I did not understand that your question on this board was for me. Fortunately, I believe Michel answered your question far more expertly than I could have. To clarify, in my post I was referring to the lack of questions on the CISR website/blog (http://cisr.ucr.edu/blog/), not this site. This PalmTalk forum is very, very good, with lots of questions, insightful answers and lively dialogue. However, I am not certain that the discussion here is being monitored by the state and UC researchers who are working on this infestation and making policy decisions. Hence, I am suggesting some questions/comments also on the CISR website/blog. Sorry, for any confusion - my mistake.

I do take the RPW infestation very seriously and will continue to work on all fronts toward its eradication here in Southern California. My post of the "radio palm" was simply to add a little levity to an otherwise very serious issue. I was out at 6:30 this morning, again driving the streets of Laguna Beach searching for early symptoms of RPW. I am monitoring a few CIDP's near the original discoveries for early symptoms. Fortunately, nothing to report.

Ron

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John in Andalucia

I have been surprised about the lack of questions posed on this site.

Ron, I posed a question 8 posts back, to which you followed up with a post about radio masts disguised as palm trees. If you don't even so much as acknowledge posts with question marks, on such a serious topic, nobody on the forum will give it much thought either. It's not just opinions that should be addressed. A simple, "yes" "no" or "not sure at this point" would suffice.

John,

My apologies. I did not understand that your question on this board was for me. Fortunately, I believe Michel answered your question far more expertly than I could have. To clarify, in my post I was referring to the lack of questions on the CISR website/blog (http://cisr.ucr.edu/blog/), not this site. This PalmTalk forum is very, very good, with lots of questions, insightful answers and lively dialogue. However, I am not certain that the discussion here is being monitored by the state and UC researchers who are working on this infestation and making policy decisions. Hence, I am suggesting some questions/comments also on the CISR website/blog. Sorry, for any confusion - my mistake.

I do take the RPW infestation very seriously and will continue to work on all fronts toward its eradication here in Southern California. My post of the "radio palm" was simply to add a little levity to an otherwise very serious issue. I was out at 6:30 this morning, again driving the streets of Laguna Beach searching for early symptoms of RPW. I am monitoring a few CIDP's near the original discoveries for early symptoms. Fortunately, nothing to report.

Ron

Ron - sorry, my mistake regarding which site you were referring to. Okay, I was a little hasty, but on the subject of the question I posed, I don't think it has been answered, because it's very specific to the Laguna Beach outbreak. I agree completely with Michael's comments that pruning is necessary to detect and treat infected palms, but that wasn't my point. I was posing a question that I will now rephrase by way of an analogy, so here goes..

"I live 10 miles downwind from the Laguna Beach outbreak of RPW. I have several Washingtonia and CIDP in my garden, they're some of the only palms in my neighbourhood. They're not accessible from the street, and they're barely visible behind my 2-storey property. I'm going to prune the hell out of them in April, and then I'm going on holiday for 3 months. I've never heard of RPW and I'll dispose of the fronds when I get back. The property opposite me has a CIDP which hasn't been trimmed for years, since the owner passed away. Nobody ever calls at his place, ever. I would go round and trim it myself if I wasn't in such a hurry."

As I understand it, this person's actions would in no way hinder or confound the work of the authorities in trapping and eradicating RPW. I know you can't stop people doing what they do, but leaflets in DIY stores for example, might make this person hold off from trimming his palms, and instead notify the authorities. Especially if he thought they might trim and inspect his palm trees whilst he was away. Just my 2 cents!

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mlovecan

alberto, I also thought same as you.... but it is very odd. Maybe there in the mountains the weevil cant kill a canariensis, but here, many many are dieing.

odd that you have big old ones there, but here....nothing.

Is it possible the temperature difference is enough to keep the weevils from flying up the mountains?

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Alberto

alberto, I also thought same as you.... but it is very odd. Maybe there in the mountains the weevil cant kill a canariensis, but here, many many are dieing.

odd that you have big old ones there, but here....nothing.

Is it possible the temperature difference is enough to keep the weevils from flying up the mountains?

Here are some photos of ´´critters´´ in my garden:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22561&st=0&p=376107&hl=critters&fromsearch=1&#entry376107

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Luisd

The other day I see red weevils for first time in Livistona australis:

P1010920.JPG

and is becoming more common in Washingtonia, date palm and queens, the more cultivated palms in this area...very sad.

Edited by Luisd
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Nigel

alberto, I also thought same as you.... but it is very odd. Maybe there in the mountains the weevil cant kill a canariensis, but here, many many are dieing.

odd that you have big old ones there, but here....nothing.

Is it possible the temperature difference is enough to keep the weevils from flying up the mountains?

Here are some photos of ´´critters´´ in my garden:

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22561&st=0&p=376107&hl=critters&fromsearch=1&#entry376107

Alberto, I know the native palm weevil is there in the mountains, but I wonder if its numbers and the damage for which its capable are controlled by the wcold winters, because this weevil also has big appetite for phoenix canariensis.

In your other link ,what does the larvae of the red beetle feed on. I have found dead palms full of small larvae with cocoons, too small to be palm weevils, but can be quite destructive also. They leave those exact wounds with resin on Syagrus you showed but inside the larvae is quite small.

Edited by Nigel

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CarloSpain

This is the first Syagrus romanzoffianum I have seen died in 'Parque el Majuelo'

post-637-070140700 1289737402_thumb.jpg

post-637-054303000 1289737627_thumb.jpg

post-637-075363200 1289737768_thumb.jpg

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mlovecan

The other day I see red weevils for first time in Livistona australis:

P1010920.JPG

and is becoming more common in Washingtonia, date palm and queens, the more cultivated palms in this area...very sad.

That pattern seems to be the norm. I have not seen a single washingtonia yet ( date palms just started this year ) but I'm pretty certain that will happen next year - and then queens.

So sad.

Maurice

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Ron Vanderhoff

This is the first Syagrus romanzoffianum I have seen died in 'Parque el Majuelo'

post-637-070140700 1289737402_thumb.jpg

post-637-054303000 1289737627_thumb.jpg

post-637-075363200 1289737768_thumb.jpg

Most of the literature I have read seems to say that Syagrus are a bit down the list of RPW preferences. Nonetheless, I photographed this Syagrus romanzoffianum with a leaning crown last week. It is only 100 feet away from the location of the first Phoenix canariensis infestation. I did not suspect RPW because of 1) the palm species involved 2) the new growth appearing to be emerging properly.

Ron

post-5063-023447100 1289883566_thumb.jpg

post-5063-062008800 1289883592_thumb.jpg

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Ron Vanderhoff

I have been surprised about the lack of questions posed on this site.

Ron, I posed a question 8 posts back, to which you followed up with a post about radio masts disguised as palm trees. If you don't even so much as acknowledge posts with question marks, on such a serious topic, nobody on the forum will give it much thought either. It's not just opinions that should be addressed. A simple, "yes" "no" or "not sure at this point" would suffice.

John,

My apologies. I did not understand that your question on this board was for me. Fortunately, I believe Michel answered your question far more expertly than I could have. To clarify, in my post I was referring to the lack of questions on the CISR website/blog (http://cisr.ucr.edu/blog/), not this site. This PalmTalk forum is very, very good, with lots of questions, insightful answers and lively dialogue. However, I am not certain that the discussion here is being monitored by the state and UC researchers who are working on this infestation and making policy decisions. Hence, I am suggesting some questions/comments also on the CISR website/blog. Sorry, for any confusion - my mistake.

I do take the RPW infestation very seriously and will continue to work on all fronts toward its eradication here in Southern California. My post of the "radio palm" was simply to add a little levity to an otherwise very serious issue. I was out at 6:30 this morning, again driving the streets of Laguna Beach searching for early symptoms of RPW. I am monitoring a few CIDP's near the original discoveries for early symptoms. Fortunately, nothing to report.

Ron

Ron - sorry, my mistake regarding which site you were referring to. Okay, I was a little hasty, but on the subject of the question I posed, I don't think it has been answered, because it's very specific to the Laguna Beach outbreak. I agree completely with Michael's comments that pruning is necessary to detect and treat infected palms, but that wasn't my point. I was posing a question that I will now rephrase by way of an analogy, so here goes..

"I live 10 miles downwind from the Laguna Beach outbreak of RPW. I have several Washingtonia and CIDP in my garden, they're some of the only palms in my neighbourhood. They're not accessible from the street, and they're barely visible behind my 2-storey property. I'm going to prune the hell out of them in April, and then I'm going on holiday for 3 months. I've never heard of RPW and I'll dispose of the fronds when I get back. The property opposite me has a CIDP which hasn't been trimmed for years, since the owner passed away. Nobody ever calls at his place, ever. I would go round and trim it myself if I wasn't in such a hurry."

As I understand it, this person's actions would in no way hinder or confound the work of the authorities in trapping and eradicating RPW. I know you can't stop people doing what they do, but leaflets in DIY stores for example, might make this person hold off from trimming his palms, and instead notify the authorities. Especially if he thought they might trim and inspect his palm trees whilst he was away. Just my 2 cents!

I am a bit hesitant to answer this question, since my experience is only anecdotal. Perhaps Michel or someone with research experience can give a more authoritarian answer.

Nonetheless . . .

1) I would think that pruning the CIDP and then leaving the tree unattended would be incorrect. A CIDP pruned in the normal manner would actually make the palm more attractive to RPW than if it were simply left as is. Without an insecticde treatment and with nobody on-site to monitor the palm I suspect the plant would be higher risk.

2) Assuming there is no current RPW in your palm, leaving the fronds in situ would cause no harm. But if there are RPW present in the pal prior to pruning the larvae could emerge from the cut frond bases and infest additional plants.

3) You said "this person's actions would in no way hinder or confound the work of the authorities in trapping and eradicating RPW". It is a bit unclear whether authorities could enter a person’s private property to treat or remove a palm without the permission of the property owner. When I asked this question of the CDFA supervisor leading the RPW campaign the answer was that they would need to "use the court system".

Ron

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John in Andalucia

I was posing a question that I will now rephrase by way of an analogy, so here goes..

"I live 10 miles downwind from the Laguna Beach outbreak of RPW. I have several Washingtonia and CIDP in my garden, they're some of the only palms in my neighbourhood. They're not accessible from the street, and they're barely visible behind my 2-storey property. I'm going to prune the hell out of them in April, and then I'm going on holiday for 3 months. I've never heard of RPW and I'll dispose of the fronds when I get back. The property opposite me has a CIDP which hasn't been trimmed for years, since the owner passed away. Nobody ever calls at his place, ever. I would go round and trim it myself if I wasn't in such a hurry."

As I understand it, this person's actions would in no way hinder or confound the work of the authorities in trapping and eradicating RPW. I know you can't stop people doing what they do, but leaflets in DIY stores for example, might make this person hold off from trimming his palms, and instead notify the authorities. Especially if he thought they might trim and inspect his palm trees whilst he was away. Just my 2 cents!

I am a bit hesitant to answer this question, since my experience is only anecdotal. Perhaps Michel or someone with research experience can give a more authoritarian answer.

Nonetheless . . .

1) I would think that pruning the CIDP and then leaving the tree unattended would be incorrect. A CIDP pruned in the normal manner would actually make the palm more attractive to RPW than if it were simply left as is. Without an insecticde treatment and with nobody on-site to monitor the palm I suspect the plant would be higher risk.

2) Assuming there is no current RPW in your palm, leaving the fronds in situ would cause no harm. But if there are RPW present in the pal prior to pruning the larvae could emerge from the cut frond bases and infest additional plants.

3) You said "this person's actions would in no way hinder or confound the work of the authorities in trapping and eradicating RPW". It is a bit unclear whether authorities could enter a person's private property to treat or remove a palm without the permission of the property owner. When I asked this question of the CDFA supervisor leading the RPW campaign the answer was that they would need to "use the court system".

Ron

Thanks, Ron. The "carrot" is whether the authorities, with the owner's consent, would be willing to prune trees on private property. Maybe they are not legally covered to do so, I don't know. Anyway, I imagined notices, by way of flyers for example, that the public could pick up in nurseries, banks, shops and big box stores. It might suggest that if you owned CIDP or Washingtonia of a certain size and were thinking of going out of town for any length of time, that the authorities would prune and inspect your trees for free, leaving a key with a neighbour. I'm just thinking of ideas that would sound valuable in the early days of an outbreak. If the idea caught on and people were queueing to say, "Hey, I'm going away, come and prune my palms for free." you could create a waiting list, and at least map the area for "unseen" palms at risk. The authorities could franchise the work, perhaps subsidize it also, thereby offering the home owner the choice to pay and beat the waiting list.

The trouble with bureaucracy of course, is that it doesn't think on its feet. A unique problem needs some unique plans to be put into action. It's somewhat ironic that the Governor of SoCal was once a "Terminator". Does he know about RPW yet? He might understand the urgency of needing to go door-to-door in search of the pest!

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mlovecan

Most of the literature I have read seems to say that Syagrus are a bit down the list of RPW preferences. Nonetheless, I photographed this Syagrus romanzoffianum with a leaning crown last week. It is only 100 feet away from the location of the first Phoenix canariensis infestation. I did not suspect RPW because of 1) the palm species involved 2) the new growth appearing to be emerging properly.

Ron

post-5063-023447100 1289883566_thumb.jpg

post-5063-062008800 1289883592_thumb.jpg

Hi Ron, that queen has some real problems. However, they seem to be the result of over-pruning. Being near your ground-zero, it's probably worth having a look at anyways.

RPW's clear preference is CIDP. We had RPW flying in fairly high concentration but as long as there were CIDP's around, they were only interested in CIDP.

Our infestation started at a garden center on the North coast that brought in some palms from Sicily. The garden center started as an empty lot and they parked some Butia Eriospatha in fall that sit by themselves all winter ( before opening ).

CIDP's in a populated area to the south ( I frequented that area as it was between the airport and my car rental guy ) started to perish the following spring. Only CIDP's and only to the south - about two miles south and in a one-square mile area.

When the garden center opened and the Butia E's were sold, I noticed each one of them died rather quickly ( on different parts of the island ) - too high of a death rate to attribute to transplanting. The second place with infections ( CIDP's ) was on the opposite side of the island a year later. I had heard of palms purchased at that garden center dying just north of there - but don't know the species or the exact proximaty to the infection.

In our case, something has changed in the area. It should be not that difficult to find and connect the dots.

Regards

Maurice

Edited by mlovecan

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gyuseppe

This is the first Syagrus romanzoffianum I have seen died in 'Parque el Majuelo'

post-637-070140700 1289737402_thumb.jpg

post-637-054303000 1289737627_thumb.jpg

post-637-075363200 1289737768_thumb.jpg

Carlo you confirm that was the red palm to kill this Syagrus romanzoffiana ?

in Italy so far no again Syagrus die for red palm

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CarloSpain

This is the first Syagrus romanzoffianum I have seen died in 'Parque el Majuelo'

post-637-070140700 1289737402_thumb.jpg

post-637-054303000 1289737627_thumb.jpg

post-637-075363200 1289737768_thumb.jpg

Carlo you confirm that was the red palm to kill this Syagrus romanzoffiana ?

in Italy so far no again Syagrus die for red palm

You can be sure Gyuseppe, I take it into the crown of the palm.

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gyuseppe

Carlos that bad news !

in italy in recent years have been planted many Syagrus romanzoffiana,But because of red palm remained very few phoenix canariensis :(

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Alberto

Here are some photos of ´´critters´´ in my garden:

http://www.palmtalk....=1

In your other link ,what does the larvae of the red beetle feed on. I have found dead palms full of small larvae with cocoons, too small to be palm weevils, but can be quite destructive also. They leave those exact wounds with resin on Syagrus you showed but inside the larvae is quite small.

You can see the damage they made on a sabal minor leave. When the fronds open it is full of ´´windows´´.I saw this on P.roebelleni and Livistona chinensis also.

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MattyB

Why does the red palm weevil found in CA look different than the red palm weevils in Europe? Is it in fact Rhynchophorus ferrugineus or maybe another type of weevil or subspecies?

Here's what all the red palm weevil pics look like in Europe.

post-126-019245000 1289945674_thumb.jpg

But here's the weevils found in Laguna Beach.

post-126-044784700 1289945708_thumb.jpg

post-126-053872500 1289945738_thumb.jpg

Early on in this thread Tampa Scott shared some pics of some sort of weevil that was attacking his CIDP and here is his photo:

post-126-051536500 1289945798_thumb.jpg

Is Scott's red palm weevil also? If not, then how can we be sure that our California visitors are not just like the one's Scott has and not red palm weevil.

Can anyone shed some light on these discrepancies?

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phoenixbob

At the Laguna Beach meeting, they said that there is a variety of color patterns for Rhynchophorus ferrugineus, and at one time the "red stripe" version found in Laguna Beach had been classified as a separate species, but further research showed a continuum of color variations and intermediate forms that indicated they were all the same species.

We've all seen similar situations with Palm species/genus classifications, so this concept should be familiar.

As far as how we know what this is, the beetles were examined by entomologists who should know what they are doing and positively identified as Rhynchophorus ferrugineus. To quote from the Center for Invasive Species Research blog, "This adult was killed and sent on overnight courier by the CDFA to the USDA-ARS Systematic Entomology Laboratory for official confirmation as RPW."

This page http://www.doacs.sta...palmweevils.pdf has information about distinguishing the different species of palm weevil.

Why does the red palm weevil found in CA look different than the red palm weevils in Europe? Is it in fact Rhynchophorus ferrugineus or maybe another type of weevil or subspecies?

Is Scott's red palm weevil also? If not, then how can we be sure that our California visitors are not just like the one's Scott has and not red palm weevil.

Can anyone shed some light on these discrepancies?

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MattyB

That makes sense Bob, thanks for explaining. So my the next logical question is: Is Tampa Scott's a red palm weevil also? If so, that means RPW is in Florida and that would be huge news. :unsure:

Here's Scott's Weevil again.

post-126-032252700 1289948850_thumb.jpg

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phoenixbob

I can't see the pronotum on Scott's picture well enough to even attempt to answer this. The sheet with the distinguishing information (above link) shows only a slight difference in the shape of the pronotum to tell R. ferrugineus from R. cruentatus - the color variations are apparently simliar in both species.

Rhynchophorus cruentatus is known throughout Florida, though, so it seems highly likely that it is R. cruentatus, in the absence of a positive diagnosis of R. ferrugineus.

That makes sense Bob, thanks for explaining. So my the next logical question is: Is Tampa Scott's a red palm weevil also? If so, that means RPW is in Florida and that would be huge news. :unsure:

Here's Scott's Weevil again.

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gyuseppe

Why does the red palm weevil found in CA look different than the red palm weevils in Europe? Is it in fact Rhynchophorus ferrugineus or maybe another type of weevil or subspecies?

Here's what all the red palm weevil pics look like in Europe.

post-126-019245000 1289945674_thumb.jpg

matt I think the red palm that is found in Europe is the most terrible that there is !destroys everything phoenix canariensis !

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mlovecan

At the Laguna Beach meeting, they said that there is a variety of color patterns for Rhynchophorus ferrugineus, and at one time the "red stripe" version found in Laguna Beach had been classified as a separate species, but further research showed a continuum of color variations and intermediate forms that indicated they were all the same species.

We've all seen similar situations with Palm species/genus classifications, so this concept should be familiar.

As far as how we know what this is, the beetles were examined by entomologists who should know what they are doing and positively identified as Rhynchophorus ferrugineus. To quote from the Center for Invasive Species Research blog, "This adult was killed and sent on overnight courier by the CDFA to the USDA-ARS Systematic Entomology Laboratory for official confirmation as RPW."

This page http://www.doacs.sta...palmweevils.pdf has information about distinguishing the different species of palm weevil.

Coloration aside, the RPW we have looks identical to the RPW found in California.

However, the Florida State document does not present a very good sample speciman of an RPW.

For one, the color is different from any I have seen on the various RPW websites. Also the antennae of all RPW's I've seen / seen photos of are never like that labeled R. ferrugineus but rather like R. cruentatus.

As a matter of fact, if I were reply on this as a guide, I could only conclude that what we have invading our Greek airspace and decimating our few palms is in fact R. cruentatus.

Regards

Maurice

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phoenixbob

This page http://www.doacs.sta...palmweevils.pdf has information about distinguishing the different species of palm weevil.

Coloration aside, the RPW we have looks identical to the RPW found in California.

However, the Florida State document does not present a very good sample speciman of an RPW.

For one, the color is different from any I have seen on the various RPW websites. Also the antennae of all RPW's I've seen / seen photos of are never like that labeled R. ferrugineus but rather like R. cruentatus.

As a matter of fact, if I were reply on this as a guide, I could only conclude that what we have invading our Greek airspace and decimating our few palms is in fact R. cruentatus.

Regards

Maurice

Maurice,

If you're using coloration and antenna shape in the Florida document to distinguish the palm weevil species, you haven't read the document carefully.

It's not enough to look at the pictures; you have to read the text.

It clearly states that the way to distinguish R. ferrigineus from R. cruentatus is to use the shape of the pronotum, not the coloration or the antenna shape.

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mlovecan

This page http://www.doacs.sta...palmweevils.pdf has information about distinguishing the different species of palm weevil.

Coloration aside, the RPW we have looks identical to the RPW found in California.

However, the Florida State document does not present a very good sample speciman of an RPW.

For one, the color is different from any I have seen on the various RPW websites. Also the antennae of all RPW's I've seen / seen photos of are never like that labeled R. ferrugineus but rather like R. cruentatus.

As a matter of fact, if I were reply on this as a guide, I could only conclude that what we have invading our Greek airspace and decimating our few palms is in fact R. cruentatus.

Regards

Maurice

Maurice,

If you're using coloration and antenna shape in the Florida document to distinguish the palm weevil species, you haven't read the document carefully.

It's not enough to look at the pictures; you have to read the text.

It clearly states that the way to distinguish R. ferrigineus from R. cruentatus is to use the shape of the pronotum, not the coloration or the antenna shape.

Hi Bob,

You're right, I was only looking at the pictures.

Can't reach out the door and grab a couple for comparison right now ( I'm in London at the moment ) but I am not sure all of the RPW had that prolonged "gradually narrowed anteriorly" look like number 1. I think I've seen many have the more rounded look - like number 2. Matter of fact, MattyB's first picture in 344 is more rounded ( to me ).

But I've always been somewhat fascinated by the little shoe-like end of the atennae. Have not seen an RPW without it.

Is it really possible that a species in the insect world can be o variable to have different shaped antenae ( sorry I flunked out of Biology in University )?

post-213-071620000 1290027861_thumb.jpg

Edited by mlovecan

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Takil-Explorer

So it seems those little red devils are going to eradicate most CIDPs and other palms in Southern Europe in the long term! Very sad if places like Italy loose their lovely palms wich have became such a classic symbol of the Med!

Alexander

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Ron Vanderhoff

I spotted a very suspicious looking CIDP in San Clemente this afternoon.

This is the palm that first caught my attention. Notice the dropping crown of leaves on the plant on the left and the lack of new emerging leaves. Looks similar to RPW symptoms and a bit like the second infested Laguna Beach palm, though not as advanced:

post-5063-023246000 1290147267_thumb.jpg

Here's a closer view of the crown of the same tree:

post-5063-018177700 1290146847_thumb.jpg

Here's the same tree looking up the trunk to the crown. No, I did not see any pupal casings or damage to the trunk:

post-5063-050919900 1290147743_thumb.jpg

If I magnify the last picture I can see what MIGHT be feeding damage at the base of one of the leaves:

post-5063-072683200 1290147727_thumb.jpg

There are many, many CIDP's in the immediate area, at various ages and stages of health. Here is one directly across the street with a pretty severe case of fusarium:post-5063-095676400 1290146795_thumb.jpg

A hundred feet in the other direction is this palm. The crown looks a little odd, but maybe I'm just seeing things:

post-5063-019011900 1290146809_thumb.jpg

If I magnify the same photo, it looks like a couple of the new emerging leaves might be distressed. Hard to tell:

post-5063-073273000 1290146821_thumb.jpg

Here's another palm, a few more feet away. Is the crown ok?

post-5063-066588800 1290148276_thumb.jpg

Magnified, it also looks like there could be some distress of the new leaves:

post-5063-049883000 1290146831_thumb.jpg

I reported these plants this afternoon to the county entomologist and a couple of UC people working on the issue. Nick Nisson, our emtomologist has already responded to me and said he would have them checked out.

Maybe it's just my imagination, but better to be safe.

Ron

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Mats

Good catch Ron. I went and looked at the same tree today and agree that it does look suspicious. All the CIDPs on that property look a bit frazzled so let's just hope it's a case of neglect and under watering. If the RPW has traveled that far south from North Laguna, we're screwed.

If any of you guys headed to the Palm Society meeting tomorrow want to check this out, it's across the street from the Ole Hansen Beach Club on the north end of San Clemente.

Ron, following your lead, I looked at all of the (~60) CIDPs planted along Camino de los Mares, a few miles north of the tree you spotted. While the majority are displaying nutrient deficiencies, they all have very robust new flushes of fronds.

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MattyB

Good spot Ron! It's gonna be palm enthusiasts like us reporting the early signs that is our only hope for early eradication. I'm making it a sport as I drive around. Try to spot an open/deformed top crown of CIDPs.

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Ron Vanderhoff

Good catch Ron. I went and looked at the same tree today and agree that it does look suspicious. All the CIDPs on that property look a bit frazzled so let's just hope it's a case of neglect and under watering. If the RPW has traveled that far south from North Laguna, we're screwed.

If any of you guys headed to the Palm Society meeting tomorrow want to check this out, it's across the street from the Ole Hansen Beach Club on the north end of San Clemente.

Ron, following your lead, I looked at all of the (~60) CIDPs planted along Camino de los Mares, a few miles north of the tree you spotted. While the majority are displaying nutrient deficiencies, they all have very robust new flushes of fronds.

Mats and Matty,

Sounds like we could be a RPW swat team! When I hear from Nick Nisson I will post the diagnosis here. Hopefully next week.

Ron

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DoomsDave

I've been looking, too.

Gonna drag out my cammies . . . . . :)

So far, nothing suspicious up in LA or Guada La Habra . . . .

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phoenixbob

Yeah, I look at every CIDP suspiciously these days... I'll join the SWAT team!

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BS Man about Palms

Any thoughts on this one?

post-27-086881600 1290219190_thumb.jpg

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Mats

Any thoughts on this one?

Bill, in the other thread you said, "Brown leaves on the bottom half.. ."

That would lead me to think Fusarium rather than RPW.

Can you get a better look at the crown and emerging fronds?

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