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Red Palm weevils found in Laguna Beach, CA

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mlovecan

Can anyone confirm or verify any attacks on crownshafted palms???

I thought I had seen everything in crazy palm ideas.

talked a lot about this in Italian! but I not know if really ok ??? only talked , but none has shown??

tampa scott:The problem is very serious in southern europe :(

The only two crownshafted palms I have seen reference to attacks are Areca Catechu and R. Regia - I've witnessed none but our island has few crownshafted palms ( other than in my garden - I have about 20 or so ).

My theory to species attacked is this is dictated by:

1) specific tastes - CIDP seems to be a consistant favourite, followed by Edible Date Palms - in the case of our island. But the sequence seems to vary by area - kind of a specific taste by specific local strain )

2) Ease of Entry to Palm - they seem to have no problem drilling right into the porous trunk of CIDP's / Edible Date Palms - they also seem to find an easy entry at the bottom of Phoenix species where adventitious roots break up the smooth trunk. IMO crownshafted palms are the least suspectible since there are few "breaks" in the contour and the trunks are usually fairly solid. The arrival of the Rino Beetle ( I first saw one of these two years ago ) seems to have accelerated the infection rate somewhat - they work in close co-operation with the RPW and are very effective hole drillers!

Like Gyuseppe stated - this is a very serious problem in Southern Europe. We made some progress last year - our municipality spent money on treatment and prevention ( the number of flying RPW went down quite noticably ) but the money has since dried up - Greek economic crisis and all.

The worst part is we have many, many mature CIDP stumps - large CIDP's that have been dead for 2 or 3 years and nobody cares to chop them down - they continue to host vast colonies of RPW. One such stump on our road to the city was surrounded by volunteer seedlings ( about 30 or 40 ). Now, the seedlings have also succumbed - small wonder. The owners of these dead trees just don't care - a palm tree is just a tree and it's no big deal to them - some even have the attitude that if they lost a valuable tree, everybody else should lose theirs too. Very, very tragic and depressing to watch - I almost threw in the towel when I lost my first tree and just resigned to the fact I was no longer able to grow palms any more.

However, that said, Bayer Confidor is an excellent product - very near 100% success rate - and since discovering it, I have some hope - at least for my garden.

Regards

Maurice

Edited by mlovecan

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PalmatierMeg

What is Bayer Confidor called in the US? Does it contain imidacloprid?

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Mats

What is Bayer Confidor called in the US? Does it contain imidacloprid?

Confidor is Imidacloprid.

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gyuseppe

I also used the insecticide with these active: DELTAMETRINA

worked ok

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John in Andalucia

I can't believe one of those buggers flew straight over my head today! I was in my shade house and it bounced off the vertical shade cloth and landed at my feet, where it lay on it's back. Quite a shock to see one at this time of year, but we have had a warm spell this last week, as did California recently. Earlier this year, I found one sitting on the door handle to my poly tunnel. Can they sniff out palm seedlings, or would that be overreacting?

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trioderob

are any of the california professional growers on this forum worried about these little buggers ?

I am a little surprised at who has NOT posted on this thread considering it could turn

into a major epidemic. not saying it will. for all we know they can contain it.

but if not- they will spread like wildfire in an area that is always warm and has tons

of CIDP.

any comments ?

xinsrc_522030413165607859329.JPG

Edited by trioderob
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mlovecan

...Quite a shock to see one at this time of year, but we have had a warm spell this last week, as did California recently. Earlier this year, I found one sitting on the door handle to my poly tunnel. Can they sniff out palm seedlings, or would that be overreacting?

Hi John,

If seeing one his time of year in your part of the Med is rare, then you can be very happy they haven't progressed much up there.

The standard advice is to not trim your palms until they stop flying in the winter months. Last year they were flying down here in December when I was first planning on trimming. In January and February ( our coldest months ) they were still flying - in great numbers. In other words they are always flying down here now. When I was using the traps last year, I never had less than a dozen in a month ( and once I caught 22 ).

As to sniffing out seedlings - I would say yes. They are so hungry ( and numerous ) here that I often see them eating away at non-palms - Caladiums and Heliconias - plants that have a simular sweet smell to palms. They even supposedly attack Algave species - which I haven't seen yet.

Regards

Maurice

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mlovecan

And I must say Bob, that photo certainly turns my stomach despite the fact you can't see how slimy they are in real life.

Combine that with the rotting stench they produce as well as the reticulating motion the huge larva make when they move ( and that looks like quite a rather small one )!! :rage:

God I hate those larva!!

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trioderob

those are some ugly larvae - no doubt

media-28036-98281.jpg

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MattyB

I wonder if Camp Pendleton to the North, and the mountains to the East will create a buffer from flying insects invading San Diego. A quarantine for moving palms would have to be in place though.

The real problem is going to be when they get into Mexico and start a prolific breeding population completely unchecked and then move North across our Southern border.

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Mark Heath

I am not sure what killed one of my CIDP. I wish i would've been more knowledgable about treatment like i am now. I wish i could've saved the palm, it was a beauty.

Decline started about June this year.

post-518-038182400 1286484557_thumb.jpg

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Nigel

I am not sure what killed one of my CIDP. I wish i would've been more knowledgable about treatment like i am now. I wish i could've saved the palm, it was a beauty.

Decline started about June this year.

Ferramone traps are effective and they also like caldo da cana ( sugarcane juice ) a bucket of this stuff and they go straight to it. At least the native ones here do ........

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mlovecan

those are some ugly larvae - no doubt

media-28036-98281.jpg

Hi Rob,

That certainly gives the unitiated a little better idea of what those horrible creatures are about - that's a mid-size one in my neck of the woods. Still, you can never appreciate how nasty they are until you smell the damage they do - it really is an emotional experience.

Regards

Maurice

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trioderob

so we will see

right now there were just a few palms trees infected, so its not out of control.

I am sure alot of folks here wont want to talk about this, as its the LAST thing they want.

(no need to talk about it and "freak out" folks so they stop spending money on palms.)

on the other hand if they are found in a larger area the news will be all over the web and tv.

I do think that its an important thing for folks to know about because then the average JOE

will be on the look out for them and if they spread the AG guys can be right on top of things.

also cause the wind blows southeast from newport beach heading them MY way !

:blink:

Edited by trioderob

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Hollywood Palms

HI All,

I just spoke with the entomologist at the L.A. County Department of Agricultural, Entomology and Plant Pathology Laboratories. He will funnel information to me to post on the board. The USDA is involved and a toll-free hotline is being set up. When I get an email, I will pass on the appropriate contact information. L.A. County is taking this very seriously.

Thanks,

David

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MattyB

From the OC Register

Residents can report red palm weevils to the California Department of Food and Agriculture's exotic-pest hot line at 800-491-1899.

The thing that I'm thinking is there's not just a few trees infected. You don't just get one beetle. If you find one, that means there's a breeding population that's been around for a while since anyone has noticed. I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems like you can't fight nature, and win, on something like this.

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Tampa Scott

Can anyone confirm or verify any attacks on crownshafted palms???

I thought I had seen everything in crazy palm ideas.

talked a lot about this in Italian! but I not know if really ok ??? only talked , but none has shown??

tampa scott:The problem is very serious in southern europe :(

gyuseppe, The problem was very serious to me when my palm was attacked by weevils. Treat the palms and you will not have a problem. My 3 CIDP are treated 2x a year now.

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trioderob

below is an infected and non infected CIDP

so from what you guys are posting they can have up to an 80 % kill rate in a given area? :blink:

007SERV_2.jpg

Edited by trioderob
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mlovecan

From the OC Register

The thing that I'm thinking is there's not just a few trees infected. You don't just get one beetle. If you find one, that means there's a breeding population that's been around for a while since anyone has noticed.

Very True Matt - the weevils did not start on the mature tree they were found in.

They likely started with one or more illegally imported trees - as what happened here. Our infection started at a single garden centre that imported a number of trees from Sicily. In the first year, all of the CIDP's within 5 miles of that garden center perished.

I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems like you can't fight nature, and win, on something like this.

I'm optimistic you may be wrong.

My village is about 35 miles from the origin of our infection. It took four years for the infection to make it's way East across the island and then South to my area.

Like I mentioned, we were having some success until the government stopped spending money on the problem. When they stopped, I was shocked to see even the Hilton Hotel ( about 10 miles from the infection's epicenter ) lose all their CIDP's.

I believe a rich ( and educated ) place like California can battle the problem successfully. The key is money and education - something we just don't have here.

Edited by mlovecan

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trioderob

this reminded me of something

its a side note but a very interesting story.

bear in mind these days much much greater and faster action is taken with dramatically more resources

but its food for thought :

Around 1904 a blight, Endothia parasitica, was introduced into the United States from the Orient. Commonly known as the Chestnut blight, Endothia parasitica was first found in the chestnut trees on the grounds of the New York Zoological Garden by Herman W. Merkel, a forester at the Bronx Zoo. It is believed that the fungus was unintentionally introduced into America from Asian chestnut trees that were imported as nursery stock. Merkle and W. A. Murrill, a mycologist on the staff of the New York Botanical Garden, identified the disease and gave it the name of Endothia parasitica.

Endothia parasitica is a fungus that produces two types of spores: one is a dry disc which is relatively large and is dispersed by the wind; the other is much smaller and sticky and is dispersed by rain. The fungus causes swollen or sunken orange-colored cankers on the limbs and trunks of the chestnut trees. The spores enter into the tree by cracks and wounds in the bark. The fungus then spreads into the inner portion of the tree and girdles the tree. The leaves above the point of infection die, followed by the limbs. Within two to ten years the entire tree is dead. The cankers spread, encircle the stem, and kill the tree above the point of infection.

As the chestnut trees in the Bronx Zoo were killed back to the ground, the blight was beginning to spread. It spread northward into Connecticut and Massachusetts, and southward into New Jersey. Then it began to spread like wildfire through the eastern forests.

Eventually, scientific and political leaders realized that there was a threat to the very existence of the American Chestnut and to the industries that it supported. In 1911-1913, special funds were appropriated to study or combat the Chestnut blight. When magnificent shade trees were dying a far south as Philadelphia, the U.S. Congress appropriated money to enable foresters to control the blight. To guide control efforts of the blight, federal and state agencies stepped up research. Scientists in Pennsylvania proved that the blight could not be controlled by tree surgery, by chemical sprays, or by injection of fungicides. In the southern Appalachians of North Carolina a plan of control called for the cutting of an isolation strip across the mountains. Since this type of quarantine was not effective, it had to be discarded. When the blight was discovered in Georgia, foresters gave up on the effort to hold a quarantine line of battle. World War I and the evident futility of control efforts caused cuts in funds for Chestnut blight research and work after 1914. Scientists, foresters, and landowners watched help- helplessly as the Chestnut blight spread. By the mid-1920s, the blight was active in the southern Appalachian mountains, the location for most of the tannin extract industry. Within forty years most of the American Chestnut trees in the eastern United States were completely destroyed.

American Chestnut trees killed by the blight comprised 50 per cent of the overall value of the eastern hardwood timber stands

CCCmanfnl2.jpg

Edited by trioderob
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mlovecan

Scientists in Pennsylvania proved that the blight could not be controlled by tree surgery, by chemical sprays, or by injection of fungicides...World War I and the evident futility of control efforts caused cuts in funds for Chestnut blight research and work after 1914. Scientists, foresters, and landowners watched help- helplessly as the Chestnut blight spread

Very valid analogy. Interestingly, when RPW first hit Europe I read several articles about how all chemicals failed to kill RPW - we had zero hope. In four short years, we have maybe a 1/2 dozen effective chemicals. EU money - money extracted from richer Northern European economies ( pre bank crisis / pre Greek economic crisis ) funded this research.

RPW has spread from its' native India ( where it had a natural predator, a flightless bird ) to the Middle East and then to Europe. It first made it's way to the Americas - to the Carribean a couple of years ago in some imported exotic palms from Egyypt ( the original source of Mediterranean RPW ). Now it has made it to CA. I would guess within a month we will know the precise source of the Laguna Beach infestation.

Money and education are the answer. I could not imagine one day driving through LA and not seeing rows and rows of beautiful palms ( even if they are mostly CIDP's and Washys ). Let's hope that day never happens.

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Patrick

What is Bayer Confidor called in the US? Does it contain imidacloprid?

Confidor is Imidacloprid.

So what is this stuff, if anyone can elaborate??? :interesting:

I'm sure the US government firmly believes I'm too stupid to use it safely without hurting myself or others. And if not the feds, then definitely the Cali. state govt..

or better still it's probably some key ingredient for a drug lab so it needs to be regulated heavily.... :badday: :badday: :badday:

It'd be nice to know a bit more about it, though- to be prepared for when or if something like this happens...

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Mats
I'm sure the US government firmly believes I'm too stupid to use it safely without hurting myself or others. And if not the feds, then definitely the Cali. state govt.. or better still it's probably some key ingredient for a drug lab so it needs to be regulated heavily....

Why do you say that?

Imidacloprid is readily available, even in California, and you don't need a license to purchase it.

So what is this stuff, if anyone can elaborate???

Here's an Imidacloprid General Fact Sheet and here's a Technical Fact Sheet for those more scientifically inclined.

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Hollywood Palms

What is Bayer Confidor called in the US? Does it contain imidacloprid?

Confidor is Imidacloprid.

So what is this stuff, if anyone can elaborate??? :interesting:

The best I can find is as the following product for sale in the U.S.: Provado.

Amazon sells the consumer granular form: Bayer 12-Month Tree and Shrub Protect and Feed Concentrate .

Looking at the MSDS sheets on the Bayer site, there are different formulations for California.

David

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MattyB

Imidocloprid is the active ingredient in a lot of the common insecticides available at any hardware store.

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DoomsDave

Hmm.

I'll make a prediction. The CIDPs of LA, and poorer communities will probably die en masse. I remember reading about how LY, which also afflicts CIDPs caused mass deaths in the Rio Grande valley in Texas. I remember a picture of row on row of dead CIDPs along roadsides.

Those in Beverly Hills with serious urban foresters, will probably do better, though I'll bet they'll still lose a few.

Be afraid, be very afraid. :rage:

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Nigel

They likely started with one or more illegally imported trees - as what happened here. Our infection started at a single garden centre that imported a number of trees from Sicily. In the first year, all of the CIDP's within 5 miles of that garden center perished.

In that case the US should hit every palm within 10 miles of the infected one with treatment.

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mlovecan

In that case the US should hit every palm within 10 miles of the infected one with treatment.

That would make extremely good sense.

When I look at the stream of the little buggers that tried to escape from my first treated palm ( a whole queue of them attempted to exit from one of their two entry points ), most are hollowed out shells, many with their heads caved right in. Those ones will have great difficulty causing any more trouble in my neighborhood! :winkie:

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Patrick

I'm sure the US government firmly believes I'm too stupid to use it safely without hurting myself or others. And if not the feds, then definitely the Cali. state govt.. or better still it's probably some key ingredient for a drug lab so it needs to be regulated heavily....

Why do you say that?

Imidacloprid is readily available, even in California, and you don't need a license to purchase it.

So what is this stuff, if anyone can elaborate???

Here's an Imidacloprid General Fact Sheet and here's a Technical Fact Sheet for those more scientifically inclined.

thanks Mats, MattyB and Hollywood for the info.

I only say what I said because the thing that came to mind for me was the Pseudoephedrine (sp?) crackdown in recent years where you have to show your ID just to buy it. I guess I'm just being cynical- I have an unfortunate knack for that. I can't think right at the moment (still to early), but there has to be quite a few things that are a bit difficult to get here in the states due to regulation, etc.

Let's hope the USDA does jump on this one because it will be a real doosey for those who don't know/ can't afford/ don't care about the problem and have trees in their yard.

have a good day!

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PalmatierMeg

I'm trying to get a lot of things straight because if these things are in the Caribbean it will only be a matter of time before they arrive in FL - if they're not here already.

People mentioning Confidor talk about injecting palms with it. Does that mean literally, with a needle as in treating for LY? I can buy Bayer products with imidacloprid but they are applied around the tree and, apparently, absorbed systemically through the roots. Is that kind of treatment successful or is injection the only way to go?

I know these weevils attack CIDPs and date palms but do they also go after other Phoenix like pygmy dates? Is it really true they also like Washingtonia and Syagrus? What about Coccothrinax, Thrinax, Sabals or other Caribbean palms? Also, Livistona, Cocos?

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MattyB

They likely started with one or more illegally imported trees - as what happened here. Our infection started at a single garden centre that imported a number of trees from Sicily. In the first year, all of the CIDP's within 5 miles of that garden center perished.

In that case the US should hit every palm within 10 miles of the infected one with treatment.

That would be a lot of palms. Ten mile radius? A 20 mile circle? That's tens of thousands of palms. There's no way the state has the budget or time to do that. It would take them 5 years to do that.

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mlovecan

People mentioning Confidor talk about injecting palms with it. Does that mean literally, with a needle as in treating for LY?

The injectors I am using are very simular to a syringe. 1/4 inch holes are drilled in the trunk and the injector is locked at full open, placed in position and then opened up - it takes about 4 or 5 weeks to empty the contents into the tree. When the injector is empty, it's removed and tar, silicone or cement is used to close the hole. Once per year is the recommended treatment - twice for complete safety. Cost of treatment ( I bought a small bottle but read of Confidor coming in a much more economical size ) is about 10 euros for a jeuvenile palm - 20 euros for a mature speciman.

The biggest advantage is the weevils seem to stay completely clear of the treated tree - instant prevention for the general vacinity.

Regards

Maurice

post-213-050563500 1286557794_thumb.jpg

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mlovecan

I know these weevils attack CIDPs and date palms but do they also go after other Phoenix like pygmy dates? Is it really true they also like Washingtonia and Syagrus? What about Coccothrinax, Thrinax, Sabals or other Caribbean palms? Also, Livistona, Cocos?

95% of our CIDP's were destroyed initially. For some reason about 5% have not succumbed - even with dead ones a few meters away. The palm in the above picture is CIDP X P. Roeb and it was the first of mine to get hit ( not unexpected ) so far none of my other pygmys have been infected - if they were I think it would be over very quick as very few larvae could fit into any part of the trunk.

If I trim my washingtonias, the weevils are all over the trimmed part - yet have failed to infect a single one - so far. In Crete where the problem has had about 2 years head start, I have been told all "common varieties" ( probably less than 10 varieties ) there have been hit other than Chamaerops and W. Robusta.

The local belief is Syagrus are immune ( for now ) but everything I read tells me Sabals are quite at risk ( I only have very young sabals and none have been touched so far. As for the other genus' - who knows ( for now ).

Regards

Maurice

Edited by mlovecan

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PalmatierMeg

Thanks, Maurice. I called the Bayer Crop Science US Division toll-free phone I found on their website. I could tell the young woman who answered was totally befuddled by what I asked. No idea what this weevil is. She did tell me Confidor is not licensed for use in the US - but I'd already figured that out. Apparently, crop science doesn't extend to palms so she couldn't help me there. She passed me on to another extension but that person was "in a meeting" according to the blessing known as voicemail. So, I sent an e-mail. I'm beginning to think there's not much out there for me other than the blue/red bottles at the big box stores.

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gyuseppe

I'm trying to get a lot of things straight because if these things are in the Caribbean it will only be a matter of time before they arrive in FL - if they're not here already.

I know these weevils attack CIDPs and date palms but do they also go after other Phoenix like pygmy dates? Is it really true they also like Washingtonia and Syagrus? What about Coccothrinax, Thrinax, Sabals or other Caribbean palms? Also, Livistona, Cocos?

it is easier to move from California to Florida from the southern United States

Phoenix like pygmy dates?----> no margaret luckily ! I never seen a dead phoenix roebelenni,roebelenii little easier to be sprayed with insecticide

in europe I have seen photos also of these that species were eaten: dypsis decaryi ,phoenix rupicola,syagrus romanzoffiana

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trioderob

They likely started with one or more illegally imported trees - as what happened here. Our infection started at a single garden centre that imported a number of trees from Sicily. In the first year, all of the CIDP's within 5 miles of that garden center perished.

In that case the US should hit every palm within 10 miles of the infected one with treatment.

That would be a lot of palms. Ten mile radius? A 20 mile circle? That's tens of thousands of palms. There's no way the state has the budget or time to do that. It would take them 5 years to do that.

think about this :

if 10 % of the palms in the state of califonia were killed and it cost $200

to cut and haul away each tree, how much $$$$$$$$ would that be ?

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Mats

Here's an update on the situation in Laguna Beach taken from the local paper - The Laguna Beach Independent:

"Tree trimmers that removed a dead palm in North Laguna last week found an infestation by the destructive red palm weevil, the first time this quarantine-rated pest has been detected in the continental U.S., and spurring an aggressive effort to halt the outbreak.

State agricultural inspectors are deploying an initial 1,000 containers spiked with a chemical-soaked lure within a quarter mile or so around the intersection of Chiquita Street and Hillcrest Drive, said Jay Van Rein, a spokesman for the state Department of Agriculture, in Sacramento.

The beetle native to Southeast Asia prefers as its host Canary Island date palms, its draping fronds a favorite of landscapers. But the beetle is also considered a threat to California’s $30 million date crop in the Coachella Valley. “We’re concerned about the date-palm growing industry and we want to protect the nursery industry,” Van Rein said.

The pest infestation spreads as the adult beetle takes flight, but its larval stage kills, tunneling galleries into a plant’s trunk and cutting off nutrients, Van Rein said.

Since the discovery was reported last week, about 400 palm trees in the vicinity were inspected, but no further infestations were found, he said. “We have to revisit those trees more than once,” he said, since only the insect’s adult stage is visible in the palm’s crown and because mature palms are physically hard to inspect.

“We don’t want people scaling trees,” Van Rein said, but agriculture officials would appreciate the public’s help checking the base of palms for dead beetles as well as information about dying palms. “We’re at the beginning stages of survey and trapping,” he said.

Cooler weather is not likely to impact the results of the survey, according to entomologist Nick Nisson, with the county Agricultural Commissioner’s Office. Even though the pest’s life-cycle accelerates in warm temperatures, “it’s likely the adults will still be flying,” even during the coming cooler months, he said. “It’s been on the federal government’s radar for many years.”

In fact, federal agricultural scientists are already involved, trying to forecast when the adults will hatch, Van Rein said. “This is one of hundreds of pests the USDA is always looking for.”

The agriculture department’s pest hotline is 800 491-1899."

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mlovecan

Thanks, Maurice. I called the Bayer Crop Science US Division toll-free phone I found on their website. I could tell the young woman who answered was totally befuddled by what I asked. No idea what this weevil is. She did tell me Confidor is not licensed for use in the US - but I'd already figured that out. Apparently, crop science doesn't extend to palms so she couldn't help me there. She passed me on to another extension but that person was "in a meeting" according to the blessing known as voicemail. So, I sent an e-mail. I'm beginning to think there's not much out there for me other than the blue/red bottles at the big box stores.

I believe the development of the confidor took place in Munich - despite the fact the only real nearby concentration of palms are indoors at RPS headquarters a few miles away ( I would imagine Toby could enlighten ) :

http://www.bayercropscience.com/bcsweb/cropprotection.nsf/id/EN_Contact

Tel. +49 (0) 21 73 - 38-0

I had a nice conversation with the Munich folk last year ( no real knowledge existed in Southern Europe at the time ) - don't worry, Ihre Englisch is besser als Ihr Deutsch ( their english is better than your German - mine also ) - nice people.

Regards

Maurice

Edited by mlovecan

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