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bruno

Borassus or Corypha in madagascar?

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Tyrone

Well, I can't believe I've missed this entire thread until now. Where have I been all year. Exciting stuff.

Matt, was it hard to germinate? Is it a fast little grower? It sure looks nice with palmate leaves from the word go. In that respect it's like a Latania, but that's about the limit of the similarities I bet.

Best regards

Tyrone

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calyptrocalyx&licuala freck

(Utopia Palms @ Mar. 30 2007,19:25)

QUOTE
Hi John

The reason I have asked about this is that in Madagascar there is something like 32 different languages, and from one village to the next village the same name could have a totally different meaning, sometimes quite the opposite to the meaning of the very next village. Now with the western culture encroaching on these sometime remote areas the local names are being lost,(much like the species being listed on cities) these are the same names these people have been using for hundreds of years, if a little more time was spent in the field talking to the elders and village wise men, it would not take to long to find out the true name and what this name means to these peoples thus having a better understanding and appreciation of the name being used on these rare isolated species

I have seen local names in some areas lost as the younger generation are to caught up in the western civilization cultures these days, and are forgetting or not bothering in learning there old names all together, surly there must be some cases were this could be protected by the botanists that are naming these species? This will then help save the True species name and also respect the local peoples (land owners) Name? as when traveling through these areas we all must respect every thing in these different peoples area as every thing from the soil to the largest tree is owned by some one, and one must seek permission to pick a fruit or take anything from there land this is just the right thing to do. This is my line of thinking anyway and I think that others would also agree.

Bruno or Joro, may I ask you what other species of palms grow in this area? And how far away are these palms to this new species?

As with what Mike has pointed out, and there are many more unbelievable names given to some of these Madagascaran species from botanists which have only help add to the confusion of these species. I do not understand why these names were given any priority, maybe just as a joke?

E.g. as Mike has listed the name given to Ravenea musicalis being named for the different sounds of the seeds falling into the water, thus it must be Musicalis! How is this name descriptive of this palms appearance or how has this name been given priority over the local land owners name that has been past down from generation to generation?

These are just my thoughts and are in no means to be taken any other way, but it would be nice to see a little more respect being given to the true owners of these new species! :)

All the best

Clayton.

:) Finally this New palm has a Name, Interesting and Cool to see the other threads regarding this Palm.

Cheers All  :D

Mikey.

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Carlo Morici

(bruno @ Dec. 15 2006,19:20)

QUOTE
Anne Tahina near a gigantic leaf, 3 meters in diameter. The trunk of the largest one is 12 meters high and 2,3 m around.

DimakaAnne-Tahinactdunefeuille.jpg

So, this is the picture! Congratulations to both Tahinas!

Carlo

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buzzmonkey

My two cents...

It's entirely plausible that it is a Corypha sp., the Malagasy people originated in Sulawesi I believe, and could have brought seeds of this useful palm with them.

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buzzmonkey

Or maybe not....

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calyptrocalyx&licuala freck

:) Hi Guys,

It is good that one more Family is added to the Great Palm World.

I Love those pictures on the other Thread, But The last picture

(I tried to copy and paste , no Luck files is to big)

tells many words, I just love the look on the 2 younger

Locals, Happy with life, & genuine  faces.

And then the older Gentleman to the left, I'm just wondering

What he's thinking, (Maybe) he's concerned, and

thinking,

"Whats all the Fuss about, These palms where plentiful

(back in my Great Great Great Grandfathers Day)

Many wiped out because of White man,

clearing etc etc, And now they

see it after 500 plus years, And   name it 'New'."

:(

Makes you wonder guys, Look at what were doing to

the rest of the world,  Which has so much in all Animals

Various families of plants including palm disappearing

Never to be seen again. Just my Thoughts.

Have a good day All,

Regards Mikey  :)

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Walter John

I hear ya Mikey.

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Joe palma

So true. It's so very precious.

This was an incredible thread. Great find, brought out right here on the board. Hair raising.

Awesome the press it got! Hope it leads to greater conservation and the like.

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Zac in NC

Glad to see its finally got a name. My father was telling me about this, as he heard it on NPR and i was like, oh yeah, thats old news to me. I had known about it for over a year because it was discovered via the IPS board.

Zac

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PatientPalms

Does anyone have GPS coordinates on a Tahina?  I would like to see it on Google Earth.

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bgl

This must be one of a very small number of threads on PalmTalk that should be saved permanently, so I'm bumping it. Definitely has historical significance! :)

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BS Man about Palms
Does anyone have GPS coordinates on a Tahina? I would like to see it on Google Earth.

I don't have the coordinates, but based on the IPS article and map, I can narrow it down to a 10 mile radius I think, but that would take me to long to search via "earth".

Bill

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Alicehunter2000
As a lover of nature in general, I find it exciting whenever a new botanic or zoologic species is discovered, and as a lover of palms in particular, I find it all the more exciting when this pertains to a new species of palm. All those involved in the processes of discovery and identification deserve much thanks and congratulations.

    Having said this, and certainly not wishing to mitigate any of the enthusiasm concerning this particular discovery, I must say that I am more than a bit perplexed by the seeming inbalance of membership reaction to various happenings in the Family Palmae.

    More specifically, I was rather astonished by the relative lack of reaction to, and interest in, a series of posts submitted a while back concerning the revival of the extinct Judean Date Palm - and from a nearly 2,000 year old seed, no less. True, there was some discussion on the Forum following the successful germination of the seed two years ago, but the posts I am referring to were the first containing data on the plant as a young, viable palm, including updates on DNA analysis, care and maintenance and even the latest photos of the palm. The reaction to all this was simply underwhelming; most of the posters above, including the illustrious Dr. Dransfield, were curiously nowhere to be heard, although it would seem to me that the revival of an extinct species is no less exciting than the discovery of a new one.

     More disappointing still is the fact that despite having forwarded an e-mail to Dr. Dransfield in which I requested approval for submitting an article containing said updated information, I have not, to this date, received even the courtesy of a reply. This, I would think, is quite a pity, seeing that I enjoy a friendly, cooperative relationship, and am in constant phone and e-mail contact, with the three scientists most involved in this significant project, and thereby have access to as much vital information as a layman could have prior to scientific publication.

    Finally, I wish to stress that this post was not inspired by bitterness, but rather by curiousity; I am at a loss to comprehend what makes one palm more equal than another!

It would be nice to save the Judean Date Palm thread as well. I must say that I am a bit supprised that germinating a 2,000 year old seed of an "extinct" variety of date palm would not garner more attention as well. Would be nice to hear an update on the status of this palm from rubyz, but from what it sounds like in his post........I think he is a bit put off from the site :(

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bgl

Bumping this again. For the benefit of everyone but specifically because another Forum member asked me recently what a mature Tahina looks like. This thread is definitely one of the more significant of all the thousands of threads that have ever been posted here.

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sarasota alex

I just shared a link to this thread (my favorite) on serj's Ukrainian palm forum and then realized that all of the original pictures have been removed by photobucket :rage:

Is there any way they could be re-posted somehow or even re-added to the original messages using a different source?

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bruno

I went over this great adventure we all had together and was thinking "there aren't that many pics of the palm"! There are some more on other topics I think, like the helicoper ones.

this time i've asked xavier to send me some pics giving the scale of the palm.

So here are two of them: one with bruno the sailor! (not me, obviously) at the foot of the inflorescence which is something like 8 or 9 meters high! A building with three floors.

By the way, a third palm id flowering! ready in february.

And another one with Xavier's motorbike.

Xavier might go on site next week and take some of the photos I want to have giving scale. bruno

tahinaetmoto.jpg

PrlvementpourKewBG.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

That is really impressive !!! In the first pic, the inflorescence looks like an old juniper tree growing out of a palm !

Thanks for posting and looking foward to more pics of Tahina !

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Eric in Orlando

That is really impressive !!! In the first pic, the inflorescence looks like an old juniper tree growing out of a palm !

Thanks for posting and looking foward to more pics of Tahina !

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Tyrone

Thanks Bruno for the pics. So a 3rd palm is flowering now. More seed available hopefully. Keep us informed on their progress.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Takil-Explorer

Well that Tahina is realy a spectaculair palm! And millions of years ago Madagascar and India where one landmass. So a palm closely related to Corypha and looking like a Corypha is clearly a a sign of those days long gone. Nepenthes is another good example!

Alexander

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BS Man about Palms

Excellent bump! :greenthumb:

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sarasota alex

Well that Tahina is realy a spectaculair palm! And millions of years ago Madagascar and India where one landmass. So a palm closely related to Corypha and looking like a Corypha is clearly a a sign of those days long gone. Nepenthes is another good example!

Alexander

Tahina is actually not that close to Corypha. It's a close relative of Kerriodoxa, Nannorrhops and Chuniophoenix. Spectacular - agreed!

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Kumar

I notice that the stem of this new palm is strikingly similar to borassus with the blackish colour and ridged ring scars very close to one another.

However the seedlings photographed and reproduced on the earlier pages show no similarity, borassus seedling (like sabal) take time to form fully palmate leaves and the first 5-6 leaves are like grass.

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bruno

Last year a student from Australia Heather James spent some time in Madagascar studying the genetics of the known tahinas on site near Xavier's property.

Her professor, Alison Shapcot and Heather have sent me a short summary of the study which will be published sometime this year.

It is a real scoop for all of us.

Here is the summary.

A recent study of Tahina spectabilis analysed the genetics of the known population consisting of one main population as well as two isolated individuals. The analysis discovered a number of different sources of evidence suggesting that there was a possibility of other undiscovered populations existing in relatively close proximity to the main population. One of the isolated plants appeared to have arisen from another as yet unknown population. A study of a mother tree and its seedlings produced in 2006 found genetic evidence of pollination from an outside source that is different again from the genetically distinct isolated plant. This led us to be confident that other populations did in fact exist in the area, however the range of this dispersal was still unclear. This information prompted recent searches of the region within a certain range and resulted in the discovery of a new population of T. spectabilis. This population had been largely burnt however observations of the seedlings present suggested that the parent plant did not flower at the same time as the flowering events in the main population and therefore could not be the father plant. This has encouraged further searches using a wider range of dispersal in the hope of finding more populations."

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bruno

Pious palm was asking for the coordinates of the tahinas.

I hope this works if you type the digits.

Or if someone can tell me how to register the place from google earth and post it here!

14. 45.03.75 S

47.25.53.23 E

The tsingy looks somewhat like a map of England! have fun looking for them.

bruno

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bgl

Bruno,

Most interesting! Thanks a lot for the update! :)

Bo-Göran

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Kim

Informational bump. :)

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Ken Johnson

Well that Tahina is realy a spectaculair palm! And millions of years ago Madagascar and India where one landmass. So a palm closely related to Corypha and looking like a Corypha is clearly a a sign of those days long gone. Nepenthes is another good example!

Alexander

Tahina is actually not that close to Corypha. It's a close relative of Kerriodoxa, Nannorrhops and Chuniophoenix. Spectacular - agreed!

My plants look a lot like Kerriodoxa.

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sarasota alex

Just realized that this hasn't been bumped in over 18 months

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Daryl

Time to bump this amazing thread again!

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doranakandawatta

Bumping this thread just to inform the Palmtalk users who are not IPS members that the last IPS magazine "Palms" give us a wonderful article telling about a journey in Madagascar and the discovery of a second habitat for the species.

I never have been disappointed joining IPS.

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