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neoflora

Looking for the real D. ambositrae

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ellidro

Thanks Steve, It will be fun to watch it grow and uncover the mystery.

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BS Man about Palms

Steve f SD, what name did you say J Marcus sold your cool palm by?    (what was he calling it?)

Bill

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Urban Rainforest

(BS, Man about Palms @ Dec. 15 2006,00:27)

QUOTE
Steve f SD, what name did you say J Marcus sold your cool palm by?    (what was he calling it?)

Bill

Bill, I ordered a bunch of D. Decipiens and he called and asked if I would like him to throw in some "red stem Decipiens". Well that was a no brainer ??? . Steve

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BS Man about Palms

Thanx

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Tyrone

(ellidro @ Dec. 14 2006,14:56)

QUOTE
Not to beat a dead horse but I'm curious if I have the real deal as well.  I bought it from a place called palmswhole as "true" dypsis ambositrae 2 months ago.  It has a heel and looks very similar too some of the previous pics.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks in advance.  My first pics posted :)

IMG_2132.jpg

IMG_2135.jpg

IMG_2137.jpg

These look exactly what I bought as wild ambositrae.

regards

Tyrone

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neoflora

I am currently growing both D. ambositrae and D. kindreo. Both seeds look similar. Both have a heel. Both have color in stem or petiole. However the leaflets on the D. ambositrae are spaced closer together and are more relaxed in their growth. D. kindreo have fewer leaflets and are more upright. By the way kindreo is a local name. It is used to represent several different palms. So which palm are we talking about? Ron

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MattyB

Bump!  I was at Jungle Music today and just had time to quickly browse around and ran into several different D. ambositrae.

1.  the fine leaf one.....aka fakey

2.  The one with the heal that Floribunda was selling as D. onilahensis.  Jungle Music had one stragler labled D. onilahensis and a whole batch labled as D. ambositrae.

3.  One funky thing that looked like a D. lastelliana.

4.  And a batch that looked similar to the fine leaf but all the leaves were pink colored....not just the emerging leaf....all of them.  The stem was bright pink too.

I just thought I'd add to the confusion.

Maybe Roosty Sado could add a few more to the list of D. ambositrae potentials.  Rusty, have you seen those pink ones?  Whas up wit dat?

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Dave-Vero

Reddishness may be a matter of growing conditions.  My little "fakey" is rather reddish, while siblings at the nursery whence it came are quite green.

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bgl

Matt and Dave,

Interesting with the red ones. I received seeds from Ortanique earlier this year under the D. ambositrae name, and (I believe) all of them except one came up the regular green. Here's the exception, next to one of the regular ones. Will be interesting to see what happens when it gets bigger!

Bo-Göran

post-22-1166659748_thumb.jpg

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roosty sado

MATT,THERE ARE THREE THAT I'VE SEEN IN THE GREEN HOUSE.GREEN TRUNK BRITE RED PETIOLE W/HEEL,RED TRUNK WHITE PETIOLE NO HEEL,AND THE FINE LEAVE.THOSE R THE 3 THAT I HAVE SEEN.I THINK THE RED LEAVE SEEDLINGS ARE FINE LEAVE.SOMETIMES WHEN THEY ARE SMALL THEY TAKE ON LOTS OF COLOR,THEN,WHEN THEY TRUNK,THEY TURN WHITE TRUNK W/GREENISH LEAVES.

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MattyB

Thanks Rusty.

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Phil

There's no question that there's been multiple different plants sold under the name "Dypsis ambositrae".  As this plant is so scarce in the wild, all knew from the beginning that the "fakey" was probably something else.  But, the name persisted b/c no one knew what to call it.  Time will tell if some of the others we're growing now end up matching those in Jeff's photos.  A more recent batch are definitely showing the red, especially on the base of the stem and in the juvenile leaves.

Phil

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Utopia Palms

Hi Phil,

 Thank you for backing up the so called "Fakey"as this is the palm that started all the work with many collectors to see if it was the true sp.

We all must note that this sp has never been found in habitat and more than likely its habitat has been wiped out.

So we are lucky that this sp made it out before it to was gone!!

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Jeff Searle

Clayton,

    A palm expert on Madagascar palm flora, once told me ,he thought this Dypsis sp. Thin Leaf might originate from up in the northeast, areas that are still waiting to be looked at. My gut feeling is he might be right.

Jeff

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Utopia Palms

Thats good to hear, I hope that its still there some were, I hate to see a species wiped out with so much clearing one has to wonder how many sp we have lost already??

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BS Man about Palms

Just one more post to the powers that "Name" the species, I vote for "Dypsis Riffilei".

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sebastian

Jeff

Thats interesting what you say about the D. sp thin leaf possible location the NE.

Ive never been lucky enough to go to madagascar and are no expert but i always had a picture in my head of it growing in the central south half of the island, why i thought that is from my experience/observations.

-Seem to take sun and grow well in full sun from an early age, maybee sugesting a fairly open or low growing habitat.

-Also seem to be fairly hardy in regards to dry

conditions.

-The thin leafs could also suggest a sunny environment from a young age or dry or windy enviornment to reduce moisture loss.

-From what I have heard they also have a degree of cold tolerence, have heard they can grow in melbourne?

If it was found in the NE you may asume the best chances of finding it then would be close to the top of a mountain where it may get cooler and some wind? and less canopy?

But isn't the rainfall fairly high in that area?

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Phil

The thing about the "thin leaf fakey" is that it is quite cold hardy.  A fellow about 3 blocks from our nursery in a colder canyon says his took 26 degrees.

Phil

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JD in the OC

I second that Bill...

We would have to find someone with a confirmed "Fine Leaf" that is flowering and have Hodel or Dransfield fly out to describe it.  Anyone have a mature specimen? Dr  Dransfield, what do you think?

JD

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Daryl

There are quite a few large ones in Mt Coot-tha Bot Gdns that have been flowering and fruiting for years. They have about 12-15 feet of clear trunk. The seedlings off these trees are exactly the same as 'fakeys' that we buy.

Daryl

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Dypsisdean

Mongolia want a pic.

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Utopia Palms

Hi all,

      I should have added these thin leaf forms have been in Australia for at least 18 years and have been flowering for at least 6 years, I think I have at least 6 that are flowering now, and I would of expected that this palm would have come from near were the true sp are located, that’s the easiest way to explain the name given to this palm if not maybe from a more central area. This palm also looks quite different when grown in full sun as to shade grown plant

post-592-1166822941_thumb.jpg

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Utopia Palms

Here is a photo of one in flower,The seedlings can hold that red colour for up to 3 years,also if planted in the shade they will keep colour untill they are near to flowering size.

post-592-1166823858_thumb.jpg

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MASOALA JASON

Down for Christmas at my parents in Carlsbad. In their yard are two 7yr old from seedlings Dypsis "fakey" ambostrae. Here is the one that has been flowering for two years and now setting seed. The other (not pictured) is in more shade and has not started flowering. The new inflorescenses are about to open their flowers

IMG_0154.jpg

IMG_0155.jpg

IMG_0156.jpg

IMG_0157.jpg

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Jeff Searle

Mas. Jason,

    Nice pictures. Someday a name will be put on this dang palm, and I can't wait. The word, fakey, will become obsolete. ???

Jeff

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SunnyFl

(Jeff Searle @ Dec. 24 2006,16:18)

QUOTE
Someday a name will be put on this dang palm, and I can't wait. The word, fakey, will become obsolete. ???

Jeff

And I hope that happens soon.  If the "fakey" in question is the fine-leaf, it needs a much better moniker.  It's a beautiful palm in its own right and the word "fakey" seems to diminish it.

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sebastian

Talking about D. bef (D.#1) and it's unique way it clumps much like D. decipens got me thinking about the true D. ambrositrae and how it forms trunks of of either one two or three and all photo's seem to show palms of a similar height.

It got me thinking anyone who has seen the real deal of D. ambrositrae in habitat, did u notice the way in which it clumped???

Yes it may be hard to tell at a large size, but i have to ask.

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Tyrone

Just in my experience with D fineleaf, it can take full sun or even full shade and can handle dry pot culture or even a lot of water. I have some in pots growing under the shade of larger canopy and they look just beautiful with the extra fine leaf. If it comes from the NE it must be at some altitude as it will grow in northern NZ reportedly. I think it would handle a lot of rain too, even misty and cool weather. The NE mountains are probably the last frontier in Madagascar, and in the POM it was admitted that the area up there was largely unexamined at that time.

regards

Tyrone

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neoflora

By the way! I have some for sale if anyone is looking to get a real one. Ron

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calyptrocalyx&licuala freck

Some Sad News Regarding this subject,,,, stay tuned just working on rewriting some facts NO Ficition....

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doubravsky

I definitely agree about the"fakey" cold hardiness... I have one about 3 ft tall, and it took 28 here in Riverside with just some minimal brown tipping on one older leaf.

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calyptrocalyx&licuala freck
:) Got the same seed in as well,Very Different....now The only seed  suppliers I trust are{ Rarepalm seeds}and Jeff Marcus, and some collectors who we know personally, Forget the rest.... :angry: they end up taking ya money,and either give u the old,wrong,(knowing as well.)seed 2 what you have ordered, so b very careful .lotsof the Sp's I have seen on the board are name's that someone we think here in aussie is responds able, We are currently taking to our collectors to see if we can track down some of these so called Various names appearing esp in the Dypsis Family. ???

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MattyB

(neoflora @ Jan. 04 2007,18:47)

QUOTE
By the way! I have some for sale if anyone is looking to get a real one. Ron

How about a picture Ron?  I'd love to see what yours look like. :)

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LJG

(MattyB @ Jan. 11 2007,12:30)

QUOTE

(neoflora @ Jan. 04 2007,18:47)

QUOTE
By the way! I have some for sale if anyone is looking to get a real one. Ron

How about a picture Ron?  I'd love to see what yours look like. :)

I was up there yesterday. The one he has in a 15 is not the best example. He has smaller stuff in Oceanside I have not seen, but will soon have. I can post a pic then. But from what Ron has said it is small - but in-ground plantable.

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mnorell

Another observation on "fakey" cold hardiness: mine appears to have totally collapsed following three December nights of freezes. A radiational 25.7; a cold, dry, advective 22.8 (I think this did it in) in a 12-hour freeze; and a radiational 25.5. The palm was rather protected, close to a SE-facing wall of my house, and it was 5' tall with fronds, not trunking yet and with a bole about 1.5" at base. Damage didn't appear too severe at first, but browning set in and then the leaves collapsed. the emerging spear browned and has not budged as of yet, though we really haven't had any terribly warm weather to kick it into gear. I'll give it until spring to see if it moves back into growth, but I'm doubtful. Last year this palm took 27 degrees in a 12-hour freeze without any problem whatsoever, not even leaf-spotting. So realistically, based on other observations in this thread, I'm guessing its hardiness limit may be around 25 degrees. I'm curious whether the real ambositrae may be hardier.

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Jeff Searle

(mnorell @ Jan. 11 2007,21:11)

QUOTE
Another observation on "fakey" cold hardiness: mine appears to have totally collapsed following three December nights of freezes. A radiational 25.7; a cold, dry, advective 22.8 (I think this did it in) in a 12-hour freeze; and a radiational 25.5. The palm was rather protected, close to a SE-facing wall of my house, and it was 5' tall with fronds, not trunking yet and with a bole about 1.5" at base. Damage didn't appear too severe at first, but browning set in and then the leaves collapsed. the emerging spear browned and has not budged as of yet, though we really haven't had any terribly warm weather to kick it into gear. I'll give it until spring to see if it moves back into growth, but I'm doubtful. Last year this palm took 27 degrees in a 12-hour freeze without any problem whatsoever, not even leaf-spotting. So realistically, based on other observations in this thread, I'm guessing its hardiness limit may be around 25 degrees. I'm curious whether the real ambositrae may be hardier.

Michael,

     My god, your in Mississippi !! Man, talk about pushing it to the limits. Sorry to hear the loss. maybe the real Dypsis ambositrae would do better.

Jeff

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SunnyFl

Michael,

Those are good, detailed observations - I wonder if the palm would have fared better in the 22.8F cold had it not been preceded by the radiational 25.7F freeze the night before.

See how it does before writing it off, and maybe use the Hydrogen Peroxide on the spear?

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Eric in Orlando

We are growing one of thse "fine leaf, fakey" Dypsis ambositrae here at Leu Gardens. Currently it is about 7ft tall. It was planted in Sept. 1998 from a 1 gal pot, about 2ft tall. In Dec. 2000 we had 3 nights below freezing; 12/19-27F, 12/30-28F, 12/31-31F. The palm was about 3ft tall then and defoliated, even under canopy from huge Camphor Trees. Then in Jan. 2003 we had one night at 27F. The palm was about 5ft tall then and had no damage. Here are some photos. The leaflets are so thin, they didn't show up well in the photo.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/leu4510....36

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/leu4510....37

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Greg in Lake Forest CA

(Jeff Searle @ Dec. 08 2006,18:58)

QUOTE
Three?? ???  This should be interesting.

Jeff

Kevin Weaver has all 3 forms in case anyone is looking.

#1)The 'fakey' or fine leaf is well documented with plenty of photo's, one courtesy of Masoala Jason

IMG_0154.jpg

#2) Daryl has the most advanced one, and Tyrone has younger plants, mine are mostly in between these.

courtesy of Daryl, this is the palm with a heel, grows similar to a decipiens, reaches out parallel to ground, as opposed to more upright growth.  This is the plant Jeff Searle believes is 99% the 'real deal'

ambodec06.jpg

#3) Kevin Weaver grows this ambositrae also,  it's been labeled ambositrae 2 and does not have a heel, grows much along the lines of a baronii, some plants split too in much the same manner as baronii. These are much faster, by a mile, than the one with a heel.  Photo courtesy Don L.

IMG_0603.jpg

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