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neoflora

Looking for the real D. ambositrae

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Greg in Lake Forest CA

(Jeff Searle @ Dec. 06 2006,16:59)

QUOTE
Alberto,

It looks like the real deal. :D

Jeff

This is great news though, at least some of the real deal will be around, who knows if/when that seed will ever come around again.  Talking recently to one grower, there are reported to be only a few of these trees left in habitat.  

The plants I have are from seed nearly 3 years ago.  The seed circulating now is definitely the 'faky' stuff.

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ViveroLaVida

Hello all

What a wonderful palm. Does anyone know if the seed that Joseph from Ortanique sold earlier this year was the real one or the fakey. On his seed list it says the real ambositrae. Any way  i have about 500-600 of these already up and on the third leaf I'll post some pics later. Thanks

oscar

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Tyrone

(ViveroLaVida @ Dec. 08 2006,10:06)

QUOTE
Hello all

What a wonderful palm. Does anyone know if the seed that Joseph from Ortanique sold earlier this year was the real one or the fakey. On his seed list it says the real ambositrae. Any way  i have about 500-600 of these already up and on the third leaf I'll post some pics later. Thanks

oscar

If it's a really thin first leaf, it's the faky ambo, which interestingly has never officially been found in the wild anyway and IMO is already extinct in the wild. If it's a fatter leaf then you may be in luck. I look forward to seeing some pictures from you.

In regards to the faky ambo which really needs officially describing now, I'm really glad that it's in cultivation in large enough quantities to not be completely wiped of the surface of the planet.

Keep growing faky ambo everyone. (Maybe JD will come up with a real botanic name in due course.)

My two cents

Tyrone

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Greg in Lake Forest CA

(Tyrone @ Dec. 08 2006,15:27)

QUOTE

(ViveroLaVida @ Dec. 08 2006,10:06)

QUOTE
Hello all

What a wonderful palm. Does anyone know if the seed that Joseph from Ortanique sold earlier this year was the real one or the fakey. On his seed list it says the real ambositrae. Any way  i have about 500-600 of these already up and on the third leaf I'll post some pics later. Thanks

oscar

If it's a really thin first leaf, it's the faky ambo, which interestingly has never officially been found in the wild anyway and IMO is already extinct in the wild. If it's a fatter leaf then you may be in luck. I look forward to seeing some pictures from you.

In regards to the faky ambo which really needs officially describing now, I'm really glad that it's in cultivation in large enough quantities to not be completely wiped of the surface of the planet.

Keep growing faky ambo everyone. (Maybe JD will come up with a real botanic name in due course.)

My two cents

Tyrone

Tyrone,

There are 3 amobositrae's out there.  I'll post a photo of each version, two of which have wider fist leaves.

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MattyB

???   go slowly Greg, I'm already confused.

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Jeff Searle

Three?? ???  This should be interesting.

Jeff

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Alberto

(Tyrone @ Dec. 08 2006,18:27)

QUOTE
In regards to the faky ambo which really needs officially describing now, I'm really glad that it's in cultivation in large enough quantities to not be completely wiped of the surface of the planet.

Keep growing faky ambo everyone. (Maybe JD will come up with a real botanic name in due course.)

If it´s a not described species,in another thread ,some palm people proposed the name:´´ Dypsis rifflei´´

  A beautifull palm for a great palmophile!!

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Tyrone

(Alberto @ Dec. 09 2006,19:17)

QUOTE

(Tyrone @ Dec. 08 2006,18:27)

QUOTE
In regards to the faky ambo which really needs officially describing now, I'm really glad that it's in cultivation in large enough quantities to not be completely wiped of the surface of the planet.

Keep growing faky ambo everyone. (Maybe JD will come up with a real botanic name in due course.)

If it´s a not described species,in another thread ,some palm people proposed the name:´´ Dypsis rifflei´´

  A beautifull palm for a great palmophile!!

Alberto, That may have been me actually. We need to wait for a palm botanist to do it for us, but I think it's a good idea.

Greg, I want to see your photos, not because I don't believe you or anything, but because with Dypsis, you can't assume anything. They're full of surprises.

regards

Tyrone

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Neofolis

Funnily enough I saw Dr. John Dransfield on TV yesterday looking for the real Dypsis ambositrae in Madagascar, when they repeated the series "A Year At Kew".  He found a small population in natural habitat, but the programme was recorded a few years ago, I hope they are still there.

It's a shame I didn't record the programme, otherwise I could have posted some pictures.

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ViveroLaVida

Here are some pics of seedlings from Dypsis ambositrae seed sold by Joseph at Ortanique earlier this year. If I remember correctly JD says that the real ambositrae has ruminate seed check photos to see a cut open seed. Lets see what you guys think.

Oscar

post-78-1165787942_thumb.jpg

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ViveroLaVida

And another

post-78-1165787981_thumb.jpg

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ViveroLaVida

And another notice redish coloration

post-78-1165788030_thumb.jpg

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ViveroLaVida

And a couple pics of the seed. The above coloration only occurs on about  

10% of seedlings so far.

post-78-1165788111_thumb.jpg

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Jeff Searle

Oscar,

   Jackpot! :D

Jeff

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ViveroLaVida

And one final shot of seed cut open (bad seed embryo dessicated) Notice rumination in quarter section. Lets see what the pros have to say. I do hope its the real deal especially after seeing these photos of bigger ones. I also hope it  is alittle easier than decepiens to grow. A cuople of years back I germinated thousands of decepiens seed they grew great till the third or fourth leaf then they slowely went into decline after two years I was left with not a single one. We tryed everything to save them ie: less sun, more sun, fungicide, new medium, raiseing the seedlings and so forth, buit to no avail. Oh well thats how palm growing goes.

Oscar

post-78-1165788436_thumb.jpg

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Utopia Palms

(Steve from San Diego @ Dec. 04 2006,20:47)

QUOTE
And heres a closeup to show some of the color.

This same looking sp came into Australia as wild collected D.Ambositrae it looks more like a form of D,Baronii some of our larger ones are dividing the same way D.baronii does and now looks the same. Maybe ask Jeff .Searle what other sp of dypsis is growing around the true D.Ambositrae as many thousands of seeds hit the market and there would not be to many sp around there that could make this much seed?, thats if it was colected from this area??? ???  ??? Jeff any idea's. Clayton.

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SunnyFl

(Tyrone @ Dec. 08 2006,18:27)

QUOTE
If it's a really thin first leaf, it's the faky ambo, which interestingly has never officially been found in the wild anyway and IMO is already extinct in the wild. If it's a fatter leaf then you may be in luck. I look forward to seeing some pictures from you.

In regards to the faky ambo which really needs officially describing now, I'm really glad that it's in cultivation in large enough quantities to not be completely wiped of the surface of the planet.

Keep growing faky ambo everyone. (Maybe JD will come up with a real botanic name in due course.)

My two cents

Tyrone

Am still trying, Tyrone.  My pair of large ones (fine-leaf/fake ambo) in the ground that caught the "dypsis disease" are hanging in there and I'm hoping they'll survive.  The big potted one is quite healthy - not sure yet about the seedling.

It's such a nice palm, would like to see many more of them in the landscape - how awful to think it may be extinct in the wild.

(Alberto @ Dec. 09 2006,19:17)

QUOTE
If it´s a not described species,in another thread ,some palm people proposed the name:´´ Dypsis rifflei´´

 A beautifull palm for a great palmophile!!

 I wish the people in charge of such things would designate the palm as such.  He deserves to have a beautiful palm named for him.

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Daryl

Here's my so-called ambositrae that I posted photos of a couple of months ago. Maybe this is Dypsis 'kindro' not ambositrae?

Daryl

ambodec06.jpg

ambo2dec06.jpg

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roosty sado

some of the d. ambo. i have, have red crown white petiole no heel.some,light green crown red petiole with heel-same batch of seed.if the real ambo. for sure has a heel then at least we can separate the onilahensis (type,looking)seedlings with the thought that maybe there was a mix of seeds.the heeled one also has closer leaflets .i also haven't seen the heeled sucker yet and the non-heeled pups just like onilahensis.some of the pots had both (heel and no heel)growing together.when i first got them i thought it was a sucker but then relized they were 2 seperate palms.one with a heel one without.WIERD!-

                                                      RUSTY

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BS Man about Palms

I've heard speculation that large batches of seed came in, probably a fine chance for a mix-up at the harvesting end...

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Neofolis

Could it be that ambositrae is a very variable species.  Often species with many variations are only observed as such in habitat, because the habitat covers a large area and a range of climates.  With ambositrae being restricted to a few remaining small groups in habitat, it may not exhibit great variation in habitat, but when exposed to different climates in cultivation, it may produce very different looking plants.  I realise this doesn't account for varied appearance on the same site from the same seed batch, but it may account for some of the cultivated plants not exactly matching the description from habitat.

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Tyrone

(Daryl @ Dec. 11 2006,04:07)

QUOTE
Here's my so-called ambositrae that I posted photos of a couple of months ago. Maybe this is Dypsis 'kindro' not ambositrae?

Daryl

ambodec06.jpg

ambo2dec06.jpg

Daryl, that looks like a more advanced version of my five "wild ambo's" that I posted pics of. We'll have to wait and see but I think it's the real thing now.

regards

Tyrone

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BS Man about Palms

(Neofolis @ Dec. 12 2006,00:00)

QUOTE
Could it be that ambositrae is a very variable species.  Often species with many variations are only observed as such in habitat, because the habitat covers a large area and a range of climates.  With ambositrae being restricted to a few remaining small groups in habitat, it may not exhibit great variation in habitat, but when exposed to different climates in cultivation, it may produce very different looking plants.  I realise this doesn't account for varied appearance on the same site from the same seed batch, but it may account for some of the cultivated plants not exactly matching the description from habitat.

I couldn't believe they vary as much as "with heel and without".

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Jeff Searle

(Utopia Palms @ Dec. 10 2006,18:45)

QUOTE

(Steve from San Diego @ Dec. 04 2006,20:47)

QUOTE
And heres a closeup to show some of the color.

This same looking sp came into Australia as wild collected D.Ambositrae it looks more like a form of D,Baronii some of our larger ones are dividing the same way D.baronii does and now looks the same. Maybe ask Jeff .Searle what other sp of dypsis is growing around the true D.Ambositrae as many thousands of seeds hit the market and there would not be to many sp around there that could make this much seed?, thats if it was colected from this area??? ???  ??? Jeff any idea's. Clayton.

In the high plateau of central Madagascar, there were very few Dypsis ambositrae growing. You drive many,many miles to find any. It's hard to say exactly what the actual numbers are in regards to their populations. It's extreamly low in numbers, though. The only palm that grows in this area that I saw, was Dypsis decipiens, and not big numbers of these either. This is where our seed came from, while there this past April.

Jeff

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iwan

(Jeff Searle @ Dec. 12 2006,10:47)

QUOTE
In the high plateau of central Madagascar, there were very few Dypsis ambositrae growing. You drive many,many miles to find any. It's hard to say exactly what the actual numbers are in regards to their populations. It's extreamly low in numbers, though. The only palm that grows in this area that I saw, was Dypsis decipiens, and not big numbers of these either. This is where our seed came from, while there this past April.

Jeff

Jeff, do you think the real-deal (or at least the parents of your April seed) will have the same cold tolerance as Decipiens?  I see some indications that the fine-leaf may have some chance in zone 9.

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deezpalms

(BS, Man about Palms @ Dec. 12 2006,06:38)

QUOTE

(Neofolis @ Dec. 12 2006,00:00)

QUOTE
Could it be that ambositrae is a very variable species.  Often species with many variations are only observed as such in habitat, because the habitat covers a large area and a range of climates.  With ambositrae being restricted to a few remaining small groups in habitat, it may not exhibit great variation in habitat, but when exposed to different climates in cultivation, it may produce very different looking plants.  I realise this doesn't account for varied appearance on the same site from the same seed batch, but it may account for some of the cultivated plants not exactly matching the description from habitat.

I couldn't believe they vary as much as "with heel and without".

Hey Bill, well my D.carlsmithii's are like that as well.

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MattyB

Dave, don't you think that with time all the D. carlsmithii's will develop a heel? Or are some older and still don't have it?  Just curious.

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Jeff Searle

(iwan @ Dec. 12 2006,19:13)

QUOTE

(Jeff Searle @ Dec. 12 2006,10:47)

QUOTE
In the high plateau of central Madagascar, there were very few Dypsis ambositrae growing. You drive many,many miles to find any. It's hard to say exactly what the actual numbers are in regards to their populations. It's extreamly low in numbers, though. The only palm that grows in this area that I saw, was Dypsis decipiens, and not big numbers of these either. This is where our seed came from, while there this past April.

Jeff

Jeff, do you think the real-deal (or at least the parents of your April seed) will have the same cold tolerance as Decipiens?  I see some indications that the fine-leaf may have some chance in zone 9.

Iwan,

     My guess is that these Dypsis ambositrae would be about as cold hardy as D. decipiens. This area is somewhat harsh on plants in this area, due to low annual rainfall and found growing at high altitudes. I have a gut feeling that D. ambositrae will do better in cultivation for most people than D. decipiens.

Jeff

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Jeff Searle

(MattyB @ Dec. 13 2006,00:40)

QUOTE
Dave, don't you think that with time all the D. carlsmithii's will develop a heel? Or are some older and still don't have it?  Just curious.

Matt,

   All Dypsis carlsmithii will form a heel in time. They usually need to be 2-3' in a 3gallon size pot before they start showing it. Thats been my observation over the years.

Jeff

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ellidro

Not to beat a dead horse but I'm curious if I have the real deal as well.  I bought it from a place called palmswhole as "true" dypsis ambositrae 2 months ago.  It has a heel and looks very similar too some of the previous pics.  Let me know what you think.  Thanks in advance.  My first pics posted :)

IMG_2132.jpg

IMG_2135.jpg

IMG_2137.jpg

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MattyB

I was thinking.....(I smell smoke)

Vivero la vida's post about the seed.  It looks similar to D. baronii....see below

post-126-1166140773_thumb.jpg

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MattyB

My question is:  Is D. baronii ruminate?  I'm asking because Clayton mentioned that those seedlings look similar to a D. baronii maybe.

post-126-1166140830_thumb.jpg

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Utopia Palms

Hi MATTY.B, Dypsis baronii seed is ruminate,the palms that Jeff.S. has are the true sp and some of the others look right as well.The ones in question are the ones that were sold as wild collected ambositrae the ones with the red colour in them.here are a few photos to show before and 12months later so you can see what they are turning into.the first 2 are 12 months younger than the last 2 photos.

post-592-1166142816_thumb.jpg

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Utopia Palms

the same thing

post-592-1166142902_thumb.jpg

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Utopia Palms

And now 12 months later.

post-592-1166142990_thumb.jpg

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Utopia Palms

As you can see these are nothing like Jeffs ones,more like a form of D.Baronii,what do you think? ??? hope this helps,some of the seed dealers don't care what they sell and by the looks of things will put any name on them.

post-592-1166143287_thumb.jpg

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chris.oz

(BS, Man about Palms @ Dec. 12 2006,09:38)

QUOTE

(Neofolis @ Dec. 12 2006,00:00)

QUOTE
Could it be that ambositrae is a very variable species.  Often species with many variations are only observed as such in habitat, because the habitat covers a large area and a range of climates.  With ambositrae being restricted to a few remaining small groups in habitat, it may not exhibit great variation in habitat, but when exposed to different climates in cultivation, it may produce very different looking plants.  I realise this doesn't account for varied appearance on the same site from the same seed batch, but it may account for some of the cultivated plants not exactly matching the description from habitat.

I couldn't believe they vary as much as "with heel and without".

Chamaedorea radicalis has 2 forms,  one with a heel and one without..... and twith totally different growth habits. These are classed as 2 forms of the same species.  Its not unparalleled in the world of palms.

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Urban Rainforest

(Utopia Palms @ Dec. 14 2006,19:33)

QUOTE
Hi MATTY.B, Dypsis baronii seed is ruminate,the palms that Jeff.S. has are the true sp and some of the others look right as well.The ones in question are the ones that were sold as wild collected ambositrae the ones with the red colour in them.here are a few photos to show before and 12months later so you can see what they are turning into.the first 2 are 12 months younger than the last 2 photos.

Clayton, I agree, these look like something in the Baronii complex. DEFINATELY NOT what I've got that I posted pics of. The leaflets are too wide, too far spaced, should be recurving into the dirt and they should have bright red spear and petioles at that size. What you have is still a very nice palm though and it will be cool to see what it turns into. Steve

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ellidro

Steve I posted some pics earlier in this thread.  What do you think, is this what yours looked like early on?

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Urban Rainforest

(ellidro @ Dec. 14 2006,20:46)

QUOTE
Steve I posted some pics earlier in this thread.  What do you think, is this what yours looked like early on?

Ellidro, Sorry it's a little hard to tell at that size as mine were a little bigger than that when I got them from Jeff Marcus/ Floribunda. One thing I just remembered about this palm was when it was about 5 gal. size and for quite a while the top inch or two of the newest spear was shiny jet black. I'm sure I'm not the only one that got these from Jeff...Pics anyone ??? ? Steve

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