Palms and Cycads

[Shon]

Tried to pull a Matty B. Straight out of the greenhouse into blazing sun. Failed miserably. Unlike someone on this board I don't let palms hang on for dear life. I have some empathy and put them out of their misery.

[MattyB]

I've never had a problem with Pritchardia coming out of the greenhouse and going into full sun. You must have forgot to water or poured your automobile oil on it. Rookie mistake.

[Phil]

You guys are too funny. It sort of reminds me of two sports guys, one who likes the Chargers and the other one the Patriots.

Phil

Below, my friend Mr. Linospadix minor jousting with Mr. Lytocaryum wedellianum.

[Jeff Searle]

Phil,

Once again, the threads you start are aimed at educating all of us here, including myself. One dosen't know it all. You probably have the best collection of palms and cycads in all of Califonia from what I can see and hear from others. Especially the cycad collection, of which I wish I knew more.

I would love to make a visit while your having one of your big sales out there, just so I can watch MattyB stumble with his species name. Just kidding Matt. But I would love to make a visit and meet some of the others that frequent your sales that are on the forum.

[Shon]

Be quiet or I will send everyone to see your giant gaffe on Palmpedia in the Kentiopsis magnifica thread. Sorry looks like I just did.

[Phil]

Good Morning Group,

Jeff, thanks for the kind words.

Since Shon and MattyB brought it up, I thought I'd talk about one of those Trachycarpus. It's the "Mealybug" Trachycarpus. Everyone on this Forum knows that if you use the word "mealybug", the hords will come running to see what it's all about. With this in mind, I propose that we give a new common name to Trachycaprus martianus because it seems to qualify as well as those Madagascar buddies. Now a purist would demand discrimination between scales and tomentum. But, to the eye, they look the same. You see a petiole with white spots and it's "mealy bug", right?

Before I go further, I think we should pay homage to Mardi Darian for coining the term "mealybug". I first heard this term over 20 years ago when he was describing one of his unknown species of Dypsis (called something else then) that had white spots on the leaf stems. At the time I thought this was quite a peculiar way of describing a plant. After all, as a nurseryman, I hate Mealybugs. They can be a scurge. And, sometimes they are a pain to get rid of. So, why dub this term onto a palm? Regardless, it did stick and others started using the term to describe certain plants, such that here we are today with lots of palms from Madagascar getting dubbed "mealybug".

Trachycarpus martianus is from northern India and surrounding areas and gets to about 20 feet in height. It is a pretty palm and has a bit of blue on the underside of the leaf. From a cultural point of view, it's not as cold hardy as many of the other species. Some feel there are different varieties of this species with more or less cold hardiness. I've had no problems growing it, nor have most in Southern California.

The leaves are basically flat and the ends of the segments don't reflex down toward the ground. This is like wagnerianus, but the leaves are bigger than a waggi and not nearly as stiff as that species.

But, the identifying hallmark is the presence of this tomentum, often in clumps, on the petiole. This fuzz on the stem looks like "mealybugs". Check out the third photo below and you'll see what I mean. The first three photos below are of a 5g plant at the nursery. You'll note the flat leaves and the tomentum. the last photo is a gallery shot showing the flat leaves. The final picture compares this 5g plant to a 5g T. takil. You'll note that the takil has a downward flexion of the ends of the leaf segments, even at this juvenile age. Look for this tomentum fuzz and a flat leaf when trying to tell if you are looking at T. martinus.

Go "Mealybug" Trachycarpus!

Phil

[Phil]

Good morning,

I suppose if that mealybug had been a Dypsis, I would have gotten a response.

I thought this morning I'd show a few larger cycads in bigger containers. Most of these I've been growing for decades. This might take a post today and another tomorrow or Tuesday.

Encephalartos villosus. This is a South African species. It tolerates and in fact may require less than full sun. Out here it grows well in morning sun or strong filtered light. Along the coast, some grow it in full sun. But, if you are inland, it needs protection from full sun. This species doesn't really trunk. It's caudex may get to 18 inches, but it doesn't form a significant vertical trunk. The leaves are about 8 feet long, which means the plant is never over 10 feet. The leaflets are spiney. One often gets offsets or suckers.

One of the striking things about this species is the color of the cones, particularly the feamle. The first picture shows a female with an emergent gold colored cone. The next several shots show more about the plant with the third photo a close up of the cone. The fourth shot is of another female E. villosus. Note how you get a huge show of leaves, quite symetrical, without a huge trunk. Cool, huh?

The last shot is of our staff at an Open House. You'll note this one fellow in the middle (known to like attention) holding a female E. villosus cone. It probably weighed 15 pounds, not light.

With some of you who have towering palms, it's perfect to sneak in an Encephalartos villosus. It fits so nicely with the palms.

Thanks for looking.

Phil

[quaman58]

Phil,

Just happened to read your section on Trachycrapus martianus, thanks for that! I am days away from putting one I have in a full sun spot. A spot that can't take anything too wide, nor too big & robust, since it's at the front edge of the back yard. As much as I'd love to use only the coolest Dypsis or New Caledonia palm, let's face it; most of that stuff requires good canopy during the years it takes to get any size. So I'd rather have a good looking Trachy rather that bad looking Dypsis ultimus in any given spot. I guess that when it comes down to it, I'll also take the healthy, lush tropical feel over the botanical garden look any day. (Although I admit I'm going for both!) So this will be my 3rd Trachycarpus in the ground. But the other two overhead T. fortunei are providing shade for Hedyscepe, Dictyosperma, Chamaedorea etc. All happy as clams.. Thanks again for the great information, as always.

Bret

Edited March 28, 2010 by quaman58

[Darold Petty]

Bret, The T. martianus also has a much more interesting and colorful spadix than does T. fortunei.

[Phil]

Brett and Darold,

Thanks for posting and for your supportive feedback.

Now for a few more of those promised big cycads. Encephalartos natalensis is a very durable, easy to grow, medium to large green South African cycad. Few people know that there are about six different types (or more) and they all look a bit different. They are good growers and like full sun. Like most cycads, they prefer full sun along the coast and far inland may do quite well with just filtered light. As you look at the pictues below, note how each one looks a bit different. I won't get into the variety names at this time, but it is not needed here. But, you'll get a feel for this species. It is a great performer and easy to grow.

Phil

[Phil]

Here are a few shots of the nursery for those who've never visited us. I know it's not too educational, but I'll get to that when I have a bit more time.

Phil

[BS Man about Palms]

Looking forward to seeing those spots full of people in a few weeks..

[MattyB]

Nice Trachy pics Phil. Although Shon may never appreciate the Trachycarpus, I certainly do.

Here's the T. martianus we saw at Leland Flether's place a couple of weeks ago. This is the plant that about 4 years ago got me to pay attention to Trachys.

[Jeff Searle]

Looking forward to seeing those spots full of people in a few weeks..

Yea.....what's the date?

Let's see...airfare,hotel room, food, car, clothes, toothbrush and felco's.

[PALM MOD]

Phil,

These are some nice plants but none of them have any prices. this is a for sale thread and require pictures and prices. You advertised a latifronds and you don't even have possession of the plant. Maybe these threads would be better in the discussing palms or other tropical plants. seems like there are a few cycad threads in there where people show off what they have.

It seems I have to explain this quite often. If you read the guidelines they say, " For larger venues or sales, such as nurseries, a link to a price list or a promise of listed prices "at the door" are required."To me, that seems easily understood. And Phil has a price list available on line, as he said in his first post. In addition, nowhere do the guidelines say photos are required. It only states, "Photos are encouraged." Again, to me that is easy to understand.

Cycads represent a particular quandary as far as pinning down a strict pricing policy, so we remain flexible. A plant may look the same and be of the same size, yet may be a much different price depending on sex. Or the same pot size plant can vary considerably given the caudex size or number. In short, Phil does his best and checks often to assure he complies.

[John in Andalucia]

Phil - as a fledgling nurseryman, it's a treat for me to see examples of your stock. We have an almost identical climate here in southern (coastal) Spain. I'm also a big Pritchardia lover, of which you seem to grow quite a few species. Thanks for maintaining these great threads, as they help to provide a model for my own stock. An online sabbatical, and a real inspiration!

[Phil]

Good Morning Group,

Thank you Dean and John for the comments.

I thought I'd first like to show you an interesting cycad. It's Zamia furfuracea. Yes, it's not rare. But, this one is peculiar. The first picture from a distance makes it look like others. It's old and full, but is recognizable as a furfuracea. On closer inspection of the leaves you see a characteristic not typical of furfurcea. This is the curling of the leaves in a longitudinal fashion. It's this different appearaance that makes this plant interesting. Call it "spooning" or what you may, it is different. I don't know if it's this plant's particular response to sun or a bit of hybrid blood making it less sun hardy. Of note it did this when not exposed to sun. Maybe it is just one of those "freaks" that are sometimes quite appealing.

I've mentioned before that Roystonea actually do quite well in So Cal. There seems to be someone somewhere growing almost all the species. Since the freeze of 2007, many feel that R borinuena is the most cold hardy. It has a more tubular trunk than regia, sometimes with a bulge midway up the trunk. We are now offering 5g Roystonea princeps from Jamaica. We also have R. regia, oleracea, maybe a few old venezueliana (if you agree it's a species), and perhaps some altissima still around. Below are some Royal pictures.

The fourth pic is a 15g R. borinquena. The fifth and sixth photo are R. regia. They are in 25g pots. The last pic is of a 5g R. princeps.

Phil

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[Phil]

Good Saturday Morning to all of you,

I thought I'd add a few pictures of some cool plants.

First is this species we call Pritchardia sp. "nut brown". It is really a nice one. See the first three photos. I like the flat green leaf and form. This is a 20g sized plant, about 7 or 8 feet tall from pot to tip.

Next are some hefty boxed Roystonea regia that I moved to photograph. They have a bit of woody trunk. You guys in FL think nothing out here, but in CA this is cool.

And finally an Encephalartos trispinosus with a somewhat under two feet of trunk. On blue cycads, such a plant is always very old. I don't nkow for sure,but I'd estimate the age of this one to be about 40 years. Trispinosus is an intersting species because it is the most variable of the basic blue Encephalartos. There are real spiney, recurved leaves, lesser spiney, no spines and green forms. But, the classical "tri" spine form makes the diagnosis. Look for the three points (counting the end spine) on most or at least many of the leaflets and you've got it ID'd. The pictured plant variest from the classical form but is still a trispinosus.

Another interesting thing is the protective glacous tomentum thins out in the greenhouse. I like to think of it as the plant "taking off it's jacket because it's humid". Heat and sun put on the blue. Humidity takes it off. Remember, it's there to protect the plant from dessication. Therefore, a blue species like horridus is always more blue in CA when put out of the greenhouse and into the sun.

Take care,

Phil

[Phil]

Good Morning,

I thought I'd show a few pictures of Lytocaryum weddellianum (aka Microcoelum w. and Syagrus w.), a high elevation Brazilian palm. It makes a good garden or container plant. It has a thin trunk and is suppose to get over 10 feet, but I've never seen one this big in cultivation. It is a petite thing and usually likes filtered light applications. The first two photos below are of a 15g. These were taken about a year ago. I have a few plants left and they are a foot or two taller than this one. They are very cool. The third photo is a 5g plant. Note the whispey small crown of leaves. It can be snuck into that little spot where you need something under the bigger trees. I've found this species tends to thrive on neglect. If you overwater, overfertilize and kiss it too many times, it won't like you. Just put it in and don't pay too much attention to it and you'll be rewarded. The other species of Lytocaryum are similar looking but have a bit bigger crown.

The next species is Dypsis utilis. This palm (formerly Vonitra utilis) is a shaggy thing. Check out the photos of the trunk where you see all the hairs. It is single trunk or clustering. But, the interesting thing about the "clustering" is the the trunks split into two. In other words, above the ground they just divide and fork into two trunks. This is opposed to a genus where the new plants emerge in the ground at the base. It is a tall and big species. New leaves emerge red colored. It has easily taken into the mid-twenties at our nursery. We have 15g and a few bigger boxes. On the trunk closeup, see the curled paper-like material hanging down. You see this on D. utilis. I don't know the name of this material, but it's very characteristic.

Phil

[Phil]

About twenty years ago I dug a cycad from a friend's yard. It was a big one with about 2 feet of trunk. I boxed it up and put it next to my pool. Within about 6 months it threw a new set of leaves. On one side, the leaves almost went entirely across the pool. They were huge. This cycad had about a 15 to 18 foot spread. This cycad was Encephalartos transvenosus. it ended up in a roof garden on top of some bank.

Encephalartos transvenosus is indeed a big cycad. It grows rapidly and has a very thick and eventually tall trunk. I've seen many where the trunk diameter is almost 2 feet across. In habitat they get well over 20 feet tall. Their leaves, when well grown, are characteristic. The leaflet shape and spination will let you know that it's a transvenosus. They also have this unique dark olive green color with a bit of "frost" on the leaves. It is especially true on younger leaves that have not aged on the plant. So, when you see a big cycad with the typical leaflet shape and spines, a dark green color, and that frost, you know it's the Modjaji cycad.

Below are a few good sized plants that show characteristics of this species. The first is in a plastic 20g container. (pics #1-3) Note its color and leaflet shape. The second group of photos is a boxed specimens, quite a bit bigger. I've shown a picture of the caudex on this plant. It's about 14 inches. There's another shot of the leaves showing the color and frost.

You need a large space for this cycad and most along the coast grow them in full sun. They are indeed a spectacular plant.

Phil

[trioderob]

great thread Phil

you are an encylopedia of plant knowledge

[Phil]

Good Morning,\

Rob, thanks for the kind comments.

I thought today I'd mention a few things about a cycad that few people talk about. It seems the blue species and a few others get all the attention. I'm talking about Encephalartos hldebrandtii. This is a Central African species that most areas can grow in Southern California. Native to Kenya, Tanzania and surrounding areas, it is a large cycad with upright leaves. Trunks can get well over 15 feet and I've seen specimens that are about 18 inches in diameter. Loran mentions a somewhat thinner nature to the trunk, but in my experience they do get a good diameter. One surprising thing is that the newly emergent leaves go straight up into the air. This is similar to E. whitelockii which many of you know. And, like whitelockii, I think this species looks its best not in total sun, especially if you live in an inland area. Another thing worth noting is the "pitchfork" ends to the leaflets. This helps with ID'ing this species. If you look at the distal tip of the leaflet, it does not come to one point. Rather, you'll see multiple points. I thought I had a photo showing this, but I don't. Sorry. It may not be on all the leaflets, but you'll spot it.

I mentioned that it's best not to blast it with your full sun. I say this because, in my experience, this sometimes results in some yellowing of the leaves. They'll appear lime colored rather than a darker green. The leaves are quite long, up to ten feet. Some plants will throw new leaves that are bronze colored.

The first picture below are some E. hildebrandtii seedlings. These are probably about six months to a year old. This is followed by a chunky specimen I dug from a private garden. It is in a 45 gallon container and the trunk is about 18 inches wide and 22 inches tall. Note the length and upright nature of the leaves. The last photo is a mature garden specimen.

One thing I should mention is the nomenclature of some Central African cycads seems not to be worked out as well as with the South African species. There are also a lot of naturally occuring hybrids among the species. So, you may see various appearing E. manikensis or similar species. This is why people will say "Manikensis complex" meaning it looks like manikensis but not totally.

Phil

[MattyB]

Cool! I like the big upright green ones.

[Phil]

Matt,

It would love your heat over in La Mesa. But, part day sun would be best. It's a quick grower and gorgeous when well grown.

Phil

[BS Man about Palms]

Phil, I'm constantly amazed and appreciative of the wide range of palms and cycads and -plants- for that matter that you take the to describe in detail here.

Thanks again for packing my head with more knowledge, now I can get rid of that useless trivia in there.

[Shon]

Cool! I like the big upright green ones.

Uhh what?

[Jeff Searle]

Cool! I like the big upright green ones.

Uhh what?

Yea....I think he's still on the kool-aid.

[MattyB]

If I remember correctly, this is E. hildebrandtii, growing in Spring Valley.

[Phil]

Good morning,

I thought I'd show an interesting thing on a very rare cycad. Most of you have heard of Encephalartos woodii from South Africa. And, most know that only male specimens are known to exsist presently. No one knows the true evolutionary history of this species. But, it's lack of availability because of no known females has made it mysterious and very sought after by collectors. And, historically it has been necessary to get an offset off of an existing specimen to obtain one for yourself. They are typically quite expensive.

Below are some pictures of the true Encephalartos woodii. The first photo is of a plant in a garden in Southern California. The second photo was taken over 10 years ago with Libby Besse of the IPS in the photo. This is the plant at Kew Gardens in London.

The third photo shows the leaflets of this species in the distall portion of the leaf. The fourth photo shows leaflets more toward the caudex or proximal portion of the leaf.

Because of the fact that there are no known females and existing plants do supply pollen, there has been a tendency and fascination with hybridizing E. woodii with other species. This species is felt to be closely related to E. natalensis, so that has been one of the main parents in doing hybrids. If you grow such an F1 hybrid, as it ages it takes on some of the characteristics of the E. woodii. Different plants show it to a greater or lesser extent as you might expect (just with children). Sometimes you see the mother, sometimes the dad in kids.

Well, what happend when you take one of these F1 hybrids and again pollinate a female of this cross back with the pollen of the pure E. woodii? This double back cross would hopefully bring out more of the characteristics of the E. woodii.

Below you'll see some pictures of such an F2 or double back cross. I.e, (E. natalensis X E. woodii) X (E. Woodii)

It's in a box and I've shown pictures of the leaves/leaflets. I think you can see some of the E. woodii characteristics showing quite well.

Maybe in time and with some very dedicated efforts, we'll have a near pure "E woodii" female.

Phil

[Phil]

A few quick interesting things:

Calyptronoma rivalis, 20g

Euterpe edulis, 20g (very limited supply)

Dypsis lanceolata, crown and trunk of a 20g

Dypsis pembana, plant with Rusty and trunk

Hyophorbe indica trunk photo and lastly crown

Phil

[BS Man about Palms]

:droolage:... oops, sorry.

[Phil]

Group,

This will be the last post of this thread as I want to start a new one announcing our Annual Spring Sale/Open House/BBQ on Sat/Sun, April 24, 25th. More on the Sale later

Regarding my final species to show, I thought I'd show another woodii hybrid. Woodii pollen, although rare and hard to get, is being utilized on lots of species. One of the best crosses I've seen is E. transvenosus X woodii. It shows stacked leaves, prominent barbs and wide leaflets. As one might expect, it makes a large, showy plant. It would be for full sun and need lots of room. Everyone who has this cross loves it. Below are photos of a 15g plant, obviously grown from seed. I hope you like these shots. It is available for sale.

Phil

[MattyB]

look at that glossy leaf. Crazy.