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Persistent Cold Air in Florida

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Tyrone

I always used to look at So Florida's climate with envy, but after this freeze I won't. It's a cruel climate. It lets you grow really tropical things for years, and then one winter it torches everything. Not just mildly but horrendously. So psychologically for many years you've won and you're growing the sort of garden they can grow in SE Asia for example with Coconuts, Betel Nuts and Lipsticks, P pacifica and they flower and fruit and look fantastic, and then bang all dead and only Queens and mules grow. I often complain about our winters and how Coconuts are so marginal here, but our winters are much more consistent, and if a palm makes it for a couple of years it's going stay long term. But a climate that lulls you into a sense of serious tropicality then burns everything is just cruel.

All the best guys.

Tyrone

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_Keith

Good news for North/Central Floridians. Low of only 39 here tonight and no frost in the morning. Gee, I have forgotten what a morning without frost looks like. So, if its here today, its there tomorrow. Cheers to warmer weather.

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Zeeth
I always used to look at So Florida's climate with envy, but after this freeze I won't. It's a cruel climate. It lets you grow really tropical things for years, and then one winter it torches everything. Not just mildly but horrendously. So psychologically for many years you've won and you're growing the sort of garden they can grow in SE Asia for example with Coconuts, Betel Nuts and Lipsticks, P pacifica and they flower and fruit and look fantastic, and then bang all dead and only Queens and mules grow. I often complain about our winters and how Coconuts are so marginal here, but our winters are much more consistent, and if a palm makes it for a couple of years it's going stay long term. But a climate that lulls you into a sense of serious tropicality then burns everything is just cruel.

All the best guys.

Tyrone

Well put. It's all because of arctic air that blows in every once in a while. If we had a mountain range that went east to west above Fl, our climate would be much warmer and more consistent, as the air couldn't get past the mountains. I guess we'd better start getting some dirt and start building!

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bubba

Tyrone, I think it depends on your definition of South Florida. Palm Beach South to the Keys no freeze but very cold for us. You have misconstrued reality if you believe South Florida is limited to Queens and Mules. Florida is a much larger state than most understand. With the Gulfstream 2 miles offshore, some Winters can be cold but millions of Coconuts remain from this area through the Keys. They are virtually ubiquitous.

I have the same thoughts trying to figure out differences between Perth and Brisbane!

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gsytch

Tyrone- Even here in Tampa Bay, we can get away with lots more than Queens. The closer you are to the water, the better off you are. BUt, true, we can get lulled into thinking these gorgeous tropicals will make it, then BAM! Reality hits. You deal. I just avoid growing palms and tropicals that I KNOW will freeze out completely. My yard looks devastated right now, but come summer it will rebound, and a few years of good winters will make this a memory...I hope! LOL Greg

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BS Man about Palms
I always used to look at So Florida's climate with envy, but after this freeze I won't. It's a cruel climate. It lets you grow really tropical things for years, and then one winter it torches everything. Not just mildly but horrendously. So psychologically for many years you've won and you're growing the sort of garden they can grow in SE Asia for example with Coconuts, Betel Nuts and Lipsticks, P pacifica and they flower and fruit and look fantastic, and then bang all dead and only Queens and mules grow. I often complain about our winters and how Coconuts are so marginal here, but our winters are much more consistent, and if a palm makes it for a couple of years it's going stay long term. But a climate that lulls you into a sense of serious tropicality then burns everything is just cruel.

All the best guys.

Tyrone

Tyrone, Bubba brings up a good point. Its hard to compare when half a world away, but the bottom southern 150 miles or so of the state is truly different than the northern half.

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_Keith
I always used to look at So Florida's climate with envy, but after this freeze I won't. It's a cruel climate. It lets you grow really tropical things for years, and then one winter it torches everything. Not just mildly but horrendously. So psychologically for many years you've won and you're growing the sort of garden they can grow in SE Asia for example with Coconuts, Betel Nuts and Lipsticks, P pacifica and they flower and fruit and look fantastic, and then bang all dead and only Queens and mules grow. I often complain about our winters and how Coconuts are so marginal here, but our winters are much more consistent, and if a palm makes it for a couple of years it's going stay long term. But a climate that lulls you into a sense of serious tropicality then burns everything is just cruel.

All the best guys.

Tyrone

Tyrone, Bubba brings up a good point. Its hard to compare when half a world away, but the bottom southern 150 miles or so of the state is truly different than the northern half.

Kinda like California

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BS Man about Palms

Yup. But I think we get deserts in the deal too. ^_^

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_Keith
Yup. But I think we get deserts in the deal too. ^_^

And mountains even, too.

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Alicehunter2000

Well my temps are pretty low....around 36 degrees at 9:00 pm .....I don't want to repeat my stupidity of last night....so I turned back on the Christmas lights (on the Bizzys) and wrapped them with sheets....again <------said with a Forest Gump accent.

Hope it doesn't freeze.......but you know what they say.......Life is like box of chocolates........

post-97-1263436363_thumb.jpg

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_Keith
Well my temps are pretty low....around 36 degrees at 9:00 pm .....I don't want to repeat my stupidity of last night....so I turned back on the Christmas lights (on the Bizzys) and wrapped them with sheets....again <------said with a Forest Gump accent.

Hope it doesn't freeze.......but you know what they say.......Life is like box of chocolates........

42 here now, with a revised low of 37 instead of 39, but that still feels so warm. Looks like you are out of the woods after tonight.

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amazondk
I always used to look at So Florida's climate with envy, but after this freeze I won't. It's a cruel climate. It lets you grow really tropical things for years, and then one winter it torches everything. Not just mildly but horrendously. So psychologically for many years you've won and you're growing the sort of garden they can grow in SE Asia for example with Coconuts, Betel Nuts and Lipsticks, P pacifica and they flower and fruit and look fantastic, and then bang all dead and only Queens and mules grow. I often complain about our winters and how Coconuts are so marginal here, but our winters are much more consistent, and if a palm makes it for a couple of years it's going stay long term. But a climate that lulls you into a sense of serious tropicality then burns everything is just cruel.

All the best guys.

Tyrone

Tyrone, Bubba brings up a good point. Its hard to compare when half a world away, but the bottom southern 150 miles or so of the state is truly different than the northern half.

And, the lower 50 miles is not even in the USA, it is just close to it.

dk

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Tala

isn't a good portion of tropical Australia nearly the same lat. as Chicago? Its just not fair ...

done w/ cold here for foreseeable future, actually made it past 60f today; low expected around 40f. Potted babies all returned to their former homes outside; only one month left to go ... duration was a killer, in some ways unprecedented for time (16 yrs) here, but the worst low was only 28f - for inland cen. Fl. that is not out of the ordinary. I'd rank this winter (so far) right in the middle of my time, certainly not the best but far far from the worst. I had more damage from one time blast of 27f last yr.

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Tyrone
Tyrone, I think it depends on your definition of South Florida. Palm Beach South to the Keys no freeze but very cold for us. You have misconstrued reality if you believe South Florida is limited to Queens and Mules. Florida is a much larger state than most understand. With the Gulfstream 2 miles offshore, some Winters can be cold but millions of Coconuts remain from this area through the Keys. They are virtually ubiquitous.

I have the same thoughts trying to figure out differences between Perth and Brisbane!

Well I'm glad I've misconstrued it then. Florida without tropicals and coconuts would be sad IMO. My comments maybe applied more to the more northern Florida locales like Orlando.

Perth and Brisbane are quite different. 250 miles latitude different, west coast dry summer climate vs east coast summer wet climate. Not quite as big a difference as So Cal to So Florida though.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Tyrone
isn't a good portion of tropical Australia nearly the same lat. as Chicago? Its just not fair ...

done w/ cold here for foreseeable future, actually made it past 60f today; low expected around 40f. Potted babies all returned to their former homes outside; only one month left to go ... duration was a killer, in some ways unprecedented for time (16 yrs) here, but the worst low was only 28f - for inland cen. Fl. that is not out of the ordinary. I'd rank this winter (so far) right in the middle of my time, certainly not the best but far far from the worst. I had more damage from one time blast of 27f last yr.

Hobart in southern Tasmania is around 42S which is similar to Chicago's distance from the equator, and is pretty much the southern limit of Oz. Hobart has a maritime climate, whereas most of the US has a continental climate, except for coastal areas I'd think. Most of the population is in the 30's to mid twenties latitude in Oz. Mainland Oz has typically a tropical continental climate with maritime climates around the edge which make winters relatively mild.

My thoughts have been with those who have sustained serious damage to their plants from the cold.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Tassie_Troy1971
isn't a good portion of tropical Australia nearly the same lat. as Chicago? Its just not fair ...

done w/ cold here for foreseeable future, actually made it past 60f today; low expected around 40f. Potted babies all returned to their former homes outside; only one month left to go ... duration was a killer, in some ways unprecedented for time (16 yrs) here, but the worst low was only 28f - for inland cen. Fl. that is not out of the ordinary. I'd rank this winter (so far) right in the middle of my time, certainly not the best but far far from the worst. I had more damage from one time blast of 27f last yr.

Hobart in southern Tasmania is around 42S which is similar to Chicago's distance from the equator, and is pretty much the southern limit of Oz. Hobart has a maritime climate, whereas most of the US has a continental climate, except for coastal areas I'd think. Most of the population is in the 30's to mid twenties latitude in Oz. Mainland Oz has typically a tropical continental climate with maritime climates around the edge which make winters relatively mild.

My thoughts have been with those who have sustained serious damage to their plants from the cold.

Best regards

Tyrone

Yep we are about the same lattitude as Chigago but with the exception of the centeral highlands we are very mild for so far south . Even where i am 30 km inland up a large river estury i can grow wax begonias that stay in flower all winter ,canna lillys , Howeas, archontophoenix that will never experience a hard frost ,all time low is 27f 40 yrs ago !!

But we lack consistant heat to grow dypsis ,bismarckia , or bananas !

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SunnyFl
My thoughts have been with those who have sustained serious damage to their plants from the cold.

Best regards

Tyrone

Thank you, Tyrone - and what you said in your earlier post, yes FL's climate can be downright evil. Miami and immediate coast is fairly safe for tropicals - but they DO get freezes (someone posted that Fairchild saw freezing temps, right on the water, south of Miami!!), but West Broward is quite similar to us, sometimes a bit colder.

St. Pete's climate is wacked: usually it's subtropical in most areas .... but about every 20 or so years, a major freeze blows through and even takes out some of the natives.

In the late 60's (I think '67, but spockv6 will know exactly), it got down to 17F. That won't happen again, now that we're so built up, but...

...on 12/24/89 (approx 20 years later), it got down to 21F - and 19F in Clearwater.

20 years later, starting on 1/1/10, we get 12 days of straight cold (very weird), culminating in blast of frost that pretty much torched anything worth looking at.

I believe at our house, our worst low was 30F, and everything except hyophorbes got through it with little trouble through Monday. On Tuesday, early morning, the temp was a couple of degrees higher -- but the WORST d--n frost I have EVER seen here! And our neighborhood almost never gets frost.

So, most years, we get solid zone 10 conditions, but then a freak event wrecks everything. OTOH, if you plant stuff that tops out at zone 9, it's too fussy - it can't take the hot soil and (usual) lack of winter chill. arrgh.

One more bit of weirdness tonight - According to NOAA, St. Pete/Clw airport has been 3F warmer than Albert Whitted for 2 reporting updates. First 48F St. Pete/Clw vs. 45 Albert Whitted (on NOAA-radio). An hour or so later, 49F St. Pete/Clw vs. 46 Whitted (NOAA/NWS website). wassupwitdat?

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Tyrone
My thoughts have been with those who have sustained serious damage to their plants from the cold.

Best regards

Tyrone

Thank you, Tyrone - and what you said in your earlier post, yes FL's climate can be downright evil. Miami and immediate coast is fairly safe for tropicals - but they DO get freezes (someone posted that Fairchild saw freezing temps, right on the water, south of Miami!!), but West Broward is quite similar to us, sometimes a bit colder.

St. Pete's climate is wacked: usually it's subtropical in most areas .... but about every 20 or so years, a major freeze blows through and even takes out some of the natives.

In the late 60's (I think '67, but spockv6 will know exactly), it got down to 17F. That won't happen again, now that we're so built up, but...

...on 12/24/89 (approx 20 years later), it got down to 21F - and 19F in Clearwater.

20 years later, starting on 1/1/10, we get 12 days of straight cold (very weird), culminating in blast of frost that pretty much torched anything worth looking at.

I believe at our house, our worst low was 30F, and everything except hyophorbes got through it with little trouble through Monday. On Tuesday, early morning, the temp was a couple of degrees higher -- but the WORST d--n frost I have EVER seen here! And our neighborhood almost never gets frost.

So, most years, we get solid zone 10 conditions, but then a freak event wrecks everything. OTOH, if you plant stuff that tops out at zone 9, it's too fussy - it can't take the hot soil and (usual) lack of winter chill. arrgh.

One more bit of weirdness tonight - According to NOAA, St. Pete/Clw airport has been 3F warmer than Albert Whitted for 2 reporting updates. First 48F St. Pete/Clw vs. 45 Albert Whitted (on NOAA-radio). An hour or so later, 49F St. Pete/Clw vs. 46 Whitted (NOAA/NWS website). wassupwitdat?

It's never nice to hear of peoples plants getting wrecked by anything. I've never been to Florida, but if one day I get to the US, I will not miss Florida at all for a palm sight seeing visit. To hear that private collectors with a lot of irreplacable stuff and Fairchild Tropical Garden and other gardens like it as well get hammered by cold temps is a sad thing to hear. There are certain things you can't just pop down to Home Depot to replace. But even those who aren't really collectors but who love their gardens, to see their garden get trashed is really depressing.

I know you guys in the US will rebuild after a few deep breaths. All the best :)

Best regards

Tyrone

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Alicehunter2000

Boy, Keith I sure hope so.

Hey Tyrone, We up here in the cold northern part of the state realize these freezing temps come through every year so we normally plant accordingly. We were classified as zone 8b (lowest lows of 15-20 f.) and most plant things that can withstand these temps. Probably 80 percent of my yard can handle the upper teens. However, the latest zone maps have my area along the coast at 9a which means our lowest lows will be between (20-25 f.). I have planted the other 20 percent of my yard with things like Queens and Bizmarkia that can handle these temps (hopefully) on occasion. There is alot of things that I plant as a returning perenial such as Elephant ear, banana's, gingers, philodendrons etc. that come back quickly from the roots.

Actually this freeze was not the worst in terms of lows....I was pretty much zone 9b (25-30 f.) the entire time.....2 hours at 24f one night. But as others have said.....duration was unbelievable....last night was my 12 straight night of freezing temps. Normally we will get 1 or 2 nights then temps relatively warm again.

I lived in Australia for 1 month back in the early 90's. Took a long surf safari and surfed Burleigh Heads and Kirra Pt. primarily. Wow, I loved that area (and Brisbane too). Very similar to some areas of Florida. If you ever visit you will probably feel very comfortable in alot of our state. I also visited the Daintree Rainforest for a week. Feels like the true tropics up there....loved it....but hard to swim anywhere unless you want to be eaten by crocs or box jellyfish. Never been to Perth but got some stock from a Rare Earth Metals company that ships out of there lol......one degree of seperation.

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bubba

Please tell me that Fairchild Gardens has not been decimated! I would find that hard to believe!

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Tyrone

David I'm glad you liked Oz. A land of diversity it is. Tasmania is expecting a bit of snow on the mountains this weekend and it's summer. There's the beginnings of a cyclone off the NW coast of West Oz. The Daintree is true wet tropics and there's big globs of desert in the middle.

You can swim in the ocean in the Daintree at certain times of the year so the locals told me. I believed them and had a swim at Cape Tribulation in early Nov. I was a little nervous of the crocodile signs up the beach where the little streams come out of the jungle and out along the beach. Locals said they weren't a problem. Maybe they wanted me dead, but anyway, it was beautiful swimming in warm water on a warm morning picking out black palms from the surrounding hills full of greenery and watching the clouds collide with Mt Misery. An image I'll never forget. Papua New guinea is meant to be identical to the Daintree rainforest, but everywhere, not just in one spot like in Oz.

I've had friends visit Florida and they said I'd love it. Palms and palm farms everywhere. Foxtails galore. If that's the case it's much like Queensland.

In Perth you can swim all year round. The Tiger sharks and white pointers are a little worrying though. With the increase in air shark patrols there's more and more media reports of sharks and beach closures. I don't know if they're actually getting more frequent. The surfs great on the west coast, and we get those west coast beach sunsets. In that respects we're probably like So Cal but with warmer water and slightly warmer summers in general.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Tyrone
Please tell me that Fairchild Gardens has not been decimated! I would find that hard to believe!

Bubba I hope it's OK too. I hope you're right.

Best regards

Tyrone

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www.dadluvsu.com
Please tell me that Fairchild Gardens has not been decimated! I would find that hard to believe!

Oh crud, and Anne Norton Sculpture Garden... We are set for a February wedding there! I hope there isn't too much that melted... :huh:

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happ

Interesting discussion, Tyrone. I believe the huge difference between subtropical Australia and Florida is that your country is surrounded by the ocean. It is amazing to us that palms like archontophoenix can thrive in Tasmania at the same latitude as Chicago where any kind of palm is essentially unheard of. This freeze in Florida is unusual for duration & cold maximum temps & historically will not happen again in our life times [i hope]. Actually, the tragedy of arctic intrusions is more painful in Texas than Florida even at the same latitude since Texas is geographically more vulnerable. The north America continent allows sub-freezing air masses to descend well into the middle latitudes. California is an anomaly because of the westerly flow over the Pacific ocean & high mountains to the east but it is also possible to experience the same kind of freeze that hit Florida. You are fortunate to live in Perth because of the uniqueness of your location. South Africa may be similar.

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philinsydney

Florida.....Trachy heaven :rolleyes:

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BobbyinNY
I always used to look at So Florida's climate with envy, but after this freeze I won't. It's a cruel climate. It lets you grow really tropical things for years, and then one winter it torches everything. Not just mildly but horrendously. So psychologically for many years you've won and you're growing the sort of garden they can grow in SE Asia for example with Coconuts, Betel Nuts and Lipsticks, P pacifica and they flower and fruit and look fantastic, and then bang all dead and only Queens and mules grow. I often complain about our winters and how Coconuts are so marginal here, but our winters are much more consistent, and if a palm makes it for a couple of years it's going stay long term. But a climate that lulls you into a sense of serious tropicality then burns everything is just cruel.

All the best guys.

Tyrone

Tyrone, Bubba brings up a good point. Its hard to compare when half a world away, but the bottom southern 150 miles or so of the state is truly different than the northern half.

Absolutely....

That's why I totally reconsidered my move when I originally started thinking about it a few years ago, and now the ONLY place for me is Ft. Laud/Miami area.... not just for the weather, but also for the nightlife & culture (not to mention it's proximity to the Keys :) )

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bubba

Tyrone,

To hear that private collectors with a lot of irreplacable stuff and Fairchild Tropical Garden and other gardens like it as well get hammered by cold temps is a sad thing to hear.

This is where I heard Fairchild got hammered! Now Bill is worried and you see how rumors start!

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Tyrone

Well someone should go to Fairchild and check it out. You're a bit closer than I am. Fairchild grows some amazing tropical stuff which temps close to freezing would hurt. I hope it's OK though and some sort of microclimate protection has worked for the stuff there. I'm not trying to start evil rumours. Others have said that Fairchild got quite cold, that's all.

Best regards

Tyrone

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SunnyFl
This is where I heard Fairchild got hammered! Now Bill is worried and you see how rumors start!

True, but I just posted that it saw freezing temps which I had read somewhere. Not that it had been devastated or even badly affected. And it's hard for me to believe it could even get that cold there, can't really imagine it - except this cold spell got so far south. Even Havana dropped down to 45 a couple of nights.

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Tyrone
Interesting discussion, Tyrone. I believe the huge difference between subtropical Australia and Florida is that your country is surrounded by the ocean. It is amazing to us that palms like archontophoenix can thrive in Tasmania at the same latitude as Chicago where any kind of palm is essentially unheard of. This freeze in Florida is unusual for duration & cold maximum temps & historically will not happen again in our life times [i hope]. Actually, the tragedy of arctic intrusions is more painful in Texas than Florida even at the same latitude since Texas is geographically more vulnerable. The north America continent allows sub-freezing air masses to descend well into the middle latitudes. California is an anomaly because of the westerly flow over the Pacific ocean & high mountains to the east but it is also possible to experience the same kind of freeze that hit Florida. You are fortunate to live in Perth because of the uniqueness of your location. South Africa may be similar.

Yes, the ocean right around us protects Australia from a very cold Antarctica. Perth is in a pretty good spot really. West Australia doesn't go any further south than 35 degrees, and the Leeuwin current which comes down from the Timor Sea and around Indonesia keeps winter sea temps never lower than 18C, and these same currents run right underneath Oz to South Australia. So a severe polar blast will pass over this warm water and this is what gives us a sharp spike in rainfall in winter when cold polar air interacts with a warm humid sea surface. We shouldn't technically get around 900mm of rainfall for our latitude, it's the Leeuwin current which helps bring more rain, and moderates our climate. It can get windy though, very windy.

I'd imagine South Africa is similar, but I'm not sure if the west coast of Africa gets a tropical current running north south along the coast.

Anyway that's enough of me talking about my weather patterns etc.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Dypsisdean

Someone who just got back from Fairchild will be doing an article shortly in Palmpedia with lots of pics.

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JayW

Today was the first time this year that we have broke the 70* mark!

It felt good outside today... I think we hit 71* or so.

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Paul The Palm Doctor!
Please tell me that Fairchild Gardens has not been decimated! I would find that hard to believe!

I'll tell you, Bubba, it's looking good to very good. I was there today. Mostly defoliation of tropical flowering & shade trees, but they do that normally around now anyway. Palms looked very good...all varieties that I saw anyway. West of that area is where things got a lot more "scorched." Fruit and spice park is looking "toasted" now.

Paul

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ZoneTenNut

If you're on FaceBook, you can become a fan of Fairchild Botanical Garden and receive periodic posts of things going on. They have been posting that they had frost at the Fairchild Farm in the Redlands area, which is quite a ways inland and west of the Fairchild Botanical Gardens near the coast. They have not mentioned anything regarding frosts or widespread freeze damage at the gardens proper, so possible this is where some of the confusion might be. There is an interesting article they have posted on their efforts to protect stuff at the Fairfield Farm, including many rare and irreplaceable fruit trees.

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happ

I understand that all coastal regions around Miami recorded minimums above freezing. Paul recorded 36F in Pembroke Pines. That's cold but not deadly. Relieved to hear that Fairchild [where many pay homage] is OK B)

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cfkingfish

Fairchild did record about 34F, and I talked to someone I used to work with there. There is some damage but if you want to see it you are going to have to look for it! There are a lot of palms there that are not on the walkways and you have to hunt for them. :)

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bubba

Checked Fairchild Botanical Gardens weather site and it reflects a monthly low temperature of 38.9F. Who knows if it is accurate, however!

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epicure3
I always used to look at So Florida's climate with envy, but after this freeze I won't. It's a cruel climate. It lets you grow really tropical things for years, and then one winter it torches everything. Not just mildly but horrendously. So psychologically for many years you've won and you're growing the sort of garden they can grow in SE Asia for example with Coconuts, Betel Nuts and Lipsticks, P pacifica and they flower and fruit and look fantastic, and then bang all dead and only Queens and mules grow. I often complain about our winters and how Coconuts are so marginal here, but our winters are much more consistent, and if a palm makes it for a couple of years it's going stay long term. But a climate that lulls you into a sense of serious tropicality then burns everything is just cruel.

All the best guys.

Tyrone

Tyrone, Bubba brings up a good point. Its hard to compare when half a world away, but the bottom southern 150 miles or so of the state is truly different than the northern half.

Absolutely....

That's why I totally reconsidered my move when I originally started thinking about it a few years ago, and now the ONLY place for me is Ft. Laud/Miami area.... not just for the weather, but also for the nightlife & culture (not to mention it's proximity to the Keys :) )

You've been talking about moving for years. You're never leaving LI. :winkie:

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cobra2326
You and Cobra can start a new palm club.

Heck, I can be the president as I didnt even make any attempts throughout all this.

Ha! I'm still holding out hope for the bottles... they'll be totally defoliated if they're not dead :|

One of these days I'm going to PM you and try to stop by that garden of yours. Things must be getting pretty mature by now.

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cobra2326
Please tell me that Fairchild Gardens has not been decimated! I would find that hard to believe!

I'll tell you, Bubba, it's looking good to very good. I was there today. Mostly defoliation of tropical flowering & shade trees, but they do that normally around now anyway. Palms looked very good...all varieties that I saw anyway. West of that area is where things got a lot more "scorched." Fruit and spice park is looking "toasted" now.

Paul

Paul,

I saw in another thread that you have Iriartea in your garden!!? That's the spirit I like to see around here. Did it make it? I believe those are hardier than Socratea, so who knows... Speaking of Socratea, Gaylord Palms in orlando has one growing well in their giant indoor atrium :)

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