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John Case

What's with the new logo?

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Pivi

Here's an idea from there. I don't think it's perfect, but just a new approach.

I think that key logo feature (palm) must have "abstract" approach, it shouldn't show real palms. I think that's what logo is about. Anyway, just my thought.

post-1237-1260278080_thumb.png

post-1237-1260278087_thumb.png

post-1237-1260278096_thumb.png

Edited by Pivi

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Pivi
Good morning all, I think we lost track of our goals yesterday :)

I totally agree. Saying one thing, and doing the other.

No real image palms should be used in logo. Simple graphics.

Edited by Pivi

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PatientPalms

globe.jpg

I think we had all agreed to a circular design as it has symbolic meaning to our group, I imagine it must seem like it's an American club sometimes, but I really think we should emphasize our society's worldwide nature in it's logo. April and I started working on this together and originally were utilizing a globe, we both quickly found there is no orientation of a globe that didn't favor one continent over another. I don't believe that was good either. Therefore the incorporation of a circle for symbolism circumvented the problem of an actual globe image.

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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John in Andalucia

Pivi, the IPS is all about real palms, so our logo shouldn't be so abstract as to not be instantly recognisable as a palm tree, or elements of a palm tree.

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Kathryn

It's wonderful see all the diverse contributions and great discussion.

Just to clarify, this is the current IPS logo.post-158-1260278345_thumb.jpg Correct?

The logo that is used to identify IPS members on PalmTalk is different. I don't have a picture of it.

We should probably focus on determining what the logo would be used for and how that limits the design before proceeding with a design.

PalmTalk members could submit designs according to these needs, but ultimately a professional should probably produce the final product.

We need a logo that will fit all potential needs and won't need to be changed every ten years or so. The palm design on the logo may eventually be used as a standalone, but until it is recognizable as the IPS logo, the full name "International Palm Society" needs to be prominent in the logo.

Do we really need something that can go from a business card size to a full t-shirt design or would the IPS logo just be shirt pocket size?

Would we be printing photos with the IPS logo in the corner?

Can the design be more detailed for larger applications and simpler for letterhead and business cards?

We are a plant society, which is more personal than a large corporation like Nike and such. Do we want a simple graphic design or something "warmer"?

post-158-1260278286_thumb.jpg post-158-1260278299_thumb.jpg post-158-1260278316_thumb.gif post-158-1260278323_thumb.gif post-158-1260278331_thumb.gif post-158-1260278506_thumb.jpg

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I am not speaking for the IPS as to what is needed. These are just my individual thoughts. I haven't discussed the IPS needs with Bo or other directors.

Bo - Perhaps you could list the needs?

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PatientPalms
It's wonderful see all the diverse contributions and great discussion.

Just to clarify, this is the current IPS logo.post-158-1260278345_thumb.jpg Correct? YES'M, (KATHRYN, NOT TO SPORTLIGHT YOU AS MOST OF YA'LL AREN'T AWARE OF IT) IT TROUBLES ME THAT OUR DIRECTORS DON'T KNOW WE HAVE ONE

The logo used to identify IPS members on PalmTalk is different. I don't have a picture of it.

We should probably focus on determining what the logo would be used for and how that limits the design before proceeding with a design.

PalmTalk members could submit designs according to these needs, but ultimately a professional should produce the final product.

We need a logo that will fit all potential needs and won't need to be changed every ten years or so. The palm design on the logo may eventually be used as a standalone, but until it is recognizable as the IPS logo, the full name "International Palm Society" needs to be prominent in the logo. I am in agreement here.

Do we really need something that can go from a business card size to a full t-shirt design or would the IPS logo just be shirt pocket size? It would be ideal to go from biz cards up to billboard size

Would we be printing photos with the IPS logo in the corner? I will use a logo on most photogrpahic material in my marketing campaign

Can the design be more detailed for larger applications and simpler for letterhead and business cards? I see no reason why not, but the images should scale-ably overlay in 1bit B&W for shape recognition.

We are a plant society, which is more personal than a large corporation like Nike and such. Do we want a simple graphic design or something "warmer"? That is a preference question, I see the IPS growing much larger (maybe not quite Nike but whats wrong with a palm in every house? ;) ), I think if we look small time it'll make us small time.

I really like the Heliconia society logo BTW! :) Good one! The logo itself (just the red part) has all the right stuff.

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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Kris

I would say the logo should be good enough to stay for next 50 years or so.And it should not be changed by the next comming president or committee? :hmm: Since what one likes usually others don't like.I have seen this happen from time to time..

kris.

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PatientPalms
I would say the logo should be good enough to stay for next 50 years or so.And it should not be changed by the next comming president or committee? :hmm: Since what one likes usually others don't like.I have seen this happen from time to time..

kris.

Kris, I agree... It should last for a long time. Not to say it can't be updated and improved but I think part of the key to that is designing a logo that has the society's core values/traditions in it's design... i.e. symbolism. That way it isn't just about artistic opinion and subject to the whims of differing "artistic" opinions.

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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SW_FL_Palms
My thoughts on the logo. It's an improvement, but as Kim says, the cartoon aspect is not for everyone. It works well as a forum logo; fun, warm, friendly etc., but is it a good logo to carry the name of the IPS worldwide? I don't think so, IMO. My reasons:

1. An island is not representative of an international society, no matter how unique we are.

2. A Coconut palm on an island is the stereotypical image of a palm tree, and to the layman, it is the only palm in existence.

3. As a shirt emblem, the acronym, IPS means very little, and with the accompanying image of palm trees on a desert island, it really could mean anything.

In other words, the logo works for us, but if you don't know palms, it's a vague representation of "something tropical" - which of course, not all palms are!

I agree with John & Kim. Actually, I prefer something more like what you have for an avatar to the left.

We have talented artists among our membership. You could ask for volunteers or have a contest. You could give a free year's membership or if you want to go all out, a free biennial registration or something similar.

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PatientPalms

IPS_logo_new_avatar.png

John in And, Are you stuck on the size and orientation of your lettering with the logo? Can you manipulate it some and maybe show some more options? letters on the right side? sized similar in height to the logo? Do we need "IPS" maybe "international" and on line and "PALM SOCIETY" on a second? CAPS? lowercase? Maybe font, something...

Spatially, Something just isn't quite right to my eye... Can't quite pinpoint it...

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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PatientPalms

whateverness.jpg

Meaningful, authoritative, timeless, but I'm still not loving it... Line thickness is off for one, font isn't quite sleek enough or something...

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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Jerry@TreeZoo

Pivi,

I like the direction you are going.

Bill,

You could incorporate some of the elements of Pivi's into your circle. The swoosh for fronds is nice. Different colors represent the international aspect of the society. Logos are often seen as one color or multi color, depending on your project or budget. "IPS" might be used as a watermark under your lettering or under the entire logo. "International" should be smaller type but same length as "Palm Society"

Kathryn's examples of the Cycads and Heliconias Societies are great with the Heliconia the best.

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John in Andalucia

I agree with Kris about the risk of user avatar's being over-shadowed. Here are a few variables.

post-1155-1260286831_thumb.jpg

These are cropped versions, incorporating an added logo. #5a is a transparent version (see example above). The circular logo that Bill produced looks like a copyright symbol, which I think adds a little status to the acronym.

#5a

IPS_logo_watermark.png

#5b

IPS_logo_watermark_flat.png

For one-colour printing, the background image could be removed..

IPS_logotype.jpg

..or with transparency, used as a watermark.

IPS_logotype_clear.png

Some examples applied..

post-1155-1260286867_thumb.jpgpost-1155-1260286880_thumb.jpg

Here is the original version of #6

post-1155-1260286894_thumb.jpg

IPS_logo_new_avatar.png

John in And, Are you stuck on the size and orientation of your lettering with the logo? Can you manipulate it some and maybe show some more options? letters on the right side? sized similar in height to the logo? Do we need "IPS" maybe "international" and on line and "PALM SOCIETY" on a second? CAPS? lowercase? Maybe font, something...

Bill, I will work on it. It's time for a cuppa right now!

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Kris

Dear John :)

Great work ! :greenthumb: And kindly stay with us...

lots of love,

kris :)

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freakypalmguy

Here is another variant. I think this is the direction Mr. Bill was thinking earlier.

post-1261-1260287352_thumb.jpg

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PatientPalms

Sorry Jerry, had to swipe your comment and post it into this thread... It's pertinent.

If we are just talking about an icon on this forum to determine who is or ain't an IPS member, then almost anything will do. You could change the member status to "Forum Member" or "IPS Member" and that would work. You could just use the words instead of an icon, but what fun is that?

The photo type icon is great for this forum (although the bottom half of the letters are hard to read) but it would be unsuitable for a corporate logo. The old logo created by Lester Pancoast is attractive but doesn't always transfer well or read well, especially when smallified. It does kind of look like a green tick when reduced.

If we want a corporate logo that reads well and is easily understood by non palm heads, then the last one is the way to go. I own an embroidery business and see good logos and bad logos every day. It needs a little tweaking but if you want an iconic logo that is instantly recognized on print media, shirts, letterhead, city buses or sky writing, you need to go with number 6.

Tweak away!

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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Succulentum

good one william :floor: :floor:

for me the simpliest the better, actualy it confused with avatar, my opinion

jean-bernard

Come on' BGL and Licuala, you guys know you like where this is going... B):D

BosRide.jpg

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ghar41

I prefer the original #1...mainly because I like that it doesn't overshadow the avatar. Thanks,

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John in Andalucia

First of all, to BS Man and others, here is a darker version of the IPS acronym. That's "halfway house". Any darker and the top half is lost in the background image.

DSCF0027.JPG

Also, cropped versions, and transluscent..

DSCF0027a.JPG........DSCF0027b.png

Here's the same set without the palm logo..

ESCF0027.JPG

ESCF0027a.JPG........ESCF0027b.png

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Pivi
Pivi, the IPS is all about real palms, so our logo shouldn't be so abstract as to not be instantly recognisable as a palm tree, or elements of a palm tree.

I didn't mean apstract as apstract... but you can see from the picture i made.

English is my second language so sometimes i cannot express myself like i could in croatian.

Ok, palm. But not a photo of palm like it's seen on your logo or Dean's logo.

I consider your logo as a photo of palm, deans also, but William's palm i see as a shape.

Don't know how to tell this... palm shape yes, palm photo no. Also square as a shape of logo is not good.

Initially i liked your approach...

Palm shape could be incorporated in my logo (instead of "abstract" palm) but generally i showed how i see the logo.

No palm photos or very detailed cliparts should be part of a logo. Simple shapes.

Edited by Pivi

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Pivi
post-158-1260278506.jpg

that's what i'm talking about. That's what I call a logo.

Simple, shape of heliconia. No detailed graphics or photos.

But at the same time very refined.

Edited by Pivi

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freakypalmguy

Someone better say they like mine the best reeeeeal quick or I'm going to start pounding my fists on the desk, cry conspiracy, and open a whole can of name calling, I mean it. :)

post-1261-1260293194_thumb.jpg

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Kim
Here's for William (red)) and Kim (light blue) - two soon to be neighbors. :) As you can see, this design is very flexible.

Your designs are coming along, keep working it... Of course, I'd prefer that medium blue t-shirt in a women's v-neck with a smaller logo on the side. :innocent: A men's t-shirt will not flatter a woman's shape, no matter how great the logo looks... :rage:

To Kathryn: thanks for spending some time and putting some real thought into the process -- much needed! Good input! It's obvious the Heliconia logo was professionally designed (hint, hint!).

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John in Andalucia

Okay Pivi, I understand you. The problem with those types of logos, and here's one in a similar style, is that they look too much like book covers, pharmaceutical corporation or university logos. Very classic, but a bit stiff for a society of gardening fanatics, IMO.

untitled.png

untitled2.png

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paulgila
Here is another variant. I think this is the direction Mr. Bill was thinking earlier.

post-1261-1260287352_thumb.jpg

this ones great,the palms look like giant claws taking over the world!!! :floor: :floor: :floor:

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John in Andalucia

Having flicked around the forum living with the current design, I think an immediate improvement might be a cropped down, toned down, translucent version?

...........clear1.png

How that might look in place of the existing IPS logo..

post-1155-1260298907_thumb.png

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paulgila

speaking of "taking over the world"...

:lol:

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John in Andalucia
speaking of "taking over the world"...

:lol:

Paul, this is the design class. Where are your crayons? Don't tell me, you left them in the library where you were drawing "fluffy bits" in the pages of an anatomical book.

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bgl

It's great to see all this excitement and all these ideas and all this involvement.

Unfortunately:

1) I'm beginning to lose track of all the different concepts and suggestions

2) while we seem to be operating on a "a new, or revised, concept every ten minutes" here, the IPS Directors are probably more on a "once every ten months" approach. In other words, I'm afraid there might be just a slight disconnect between "great ideas" and "actual implementation".

All this doesn't mean we should stop trying. What it does mean is that, at some point, we need to narrow this down to (at the most) just a few practical, attractive and striking concepts and at that point present them to the Board of Directors. The more thought out and the more "real" those concepts are when presented, the greater the possibility that we will actually be able to make some progress. Personally, I would like to see something done very soon. Unfortunately, I'm not the one voting on this and all I can do is to present it to the IPS Board and make my (our) best case.

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John in Andalucia
It's great to see all this excitement and all these ideas and all this involvement.

Unfortunately:

1) I'm beginning to lose track of all the different concepts and suggestions

2) while we seem to be operating on a "a new, or revised, concept every ten minutes" here, the IPS Directors are probably more on a "once every ten months" approach. In other words, I'm afraid there might be just a slight disconnect between "great ideas" and "actual implementation".

All this doesn't mean we should stop trying. What it does mean is that, at some point, we need to narrow this down to (at the most) just a few practical, attractive and striking concepts and at that point present them to the Board of Directors. The more thought out and the more "real" those concepts are when presented, the greater the possibility that we will actually be able to make some progress. Personally, I would like to see something done very soon. Unfortunately, I'm not the one voting on this and all I can do is to present it to the IPS Board and make my (our) best case.

Bo, when you get nearer to a design that works, it's normal to tweak all the variables of that design. Since Dean is currently testing out mine, that's what I've done. Hence, all of the logos of mine scattered around that look similar. It's all the more difficult being online, but in a studio environment, all of these sketches would be laid out on a table and discussed in a group meeting. We've no design committee here, just people who come and go with ideas, so it's difficult to make real progress. If however, the IPS was paying a design team to do what we are trying to do, they would have a head start by logging on to PalmTalk and going through the various topics.

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Pivi

Here's one. Any variatons can be made.

Outline or no outline. Outline width, color.

Fill or no fill. Fill color

post-1237-1260306055_thumb.png

Edited by Pivi

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LJG

Nice work Pivi. To me this is a logo.

The Cycad Society has a good one too

post-158-1260278331.gif

Here's one. Any variatons can be made. Outline color/width or no outline, fill or no fill, fill color/width etc.

post-1237-1260306055_thumb.png

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LJG

Dean, having been through many of these 'logo secessions' I can offer you another option. Cheap (you set the budget) and easy. Simply put your request online and the bid price. Depending on the amount, you will get tons of submissions. Once you weed through 10 or so, put them online and have members vote. Or just have the board vote.

www.elance.com

Many of what is being shown here is too busy for a logo. You will find this out when you go to print.

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PatientPalms
It's great to see all this excitement and all these ideas and all this involvement.

Unfortunately:

1) I'm beginning to lose track of all the different concepts and suggestions

2) while we seem to be operating on a "a new, or revised, concept every ten minutes" here, the IPS Directors are probably more on a "once every ten months" approach. In other words, I'm afraid there might be just a slight disconnect between "great ideas" and "actual implementation".

All this doesn't mean we should stop trying. What it does mean is that, at some point, we need to narrow this down to (at the most) just a few practical, attractive and striking concepts and at that point present them to the Board of Directors. The more thought out and the more "real" those concepts are when presented, the greater the possibility that we will actually be able to make some progress. Personally, I would like to see something done very soon. Unfortunately, I'm not the one voting on this and all I can do is to present it to the IPS Board and make my (our) best case.

Then I suggest someone needs to be put in charge of this and given the authority to get the job done... Being the head of "Public Relations and Marketing Committee" seems to make me the man for the job, but I understand I have not been given the liberty to do my job. Any path taken may not be the absolute best heading (there will always be naysayers) but at least some course is charted. As I see, nothing has ever happened b4. Bo, can you select a person or do we need to take a vote? If we're voting, I suggest DypsisDean, John in Andalucia, and PiousPalms. The three of us have given this the most thought and effort.

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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Pivi
If we're voting, I suggest DypsisDean, John in Andalucia, and PiousPalms. The three of us have given this the most thought and effort.

Come on Bill, you can't vote for yourself :lol:

If you ask me mine is the best, everyone will say that for his own.

(there will always be naysayers)

naaay

I would choose one from every member that participated in this topic (made a logo suggestion) and then open a Poll.

My suggestion is 4 posts above.

Edited by Pivi

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PatientPalms

I know that was just meant in jest, but if Bo isn't behind it this won't fly. If we don't have visual identity I can't execute the best possible marketing campaign I am capable of. So that makes this the jumping off point.

As much fun as it is for me, when I commit to do something I do take it seriously.

Perhaps Palmtalk shouldn't be the venue to create test logos, too much noise.

If I may critique your most recent image it has no shape recognition without lettering. Eventually a good logo should be able to have the lettering removed and symbolic recognition should suffice. If I just wanted to use the symbol (say to watermark a photograph) it will have to have the lettering and words, otherwise it will just be a plain ol' palm tree to the average viewer.

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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John in Andalucia
I would choose one from every member that participated in this topic (made a logo suggestion) and then open a Poll.

My suggestion is 4 posts above.

That's completely the wrong approach. It's not a competition where we all submit a design and pick a winner. There's no one creative genius among us who can hit upon the perfect logo. Not even design companies work that way. Jointly, we have a better chance of creating something unique and presentable. If you farm it out to just one freelance designer, you'll probably end up with something mundane and predictable.

Pivi, Bill was talking about delegating someone to be in charge of the design process, not selecting their own design as the preferred choice.

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Pivi

Bill, what do you think yours is. It's also nothing but a palm tree.

Come on man, logo is all elements together. Don't pull out components saying "plain ol' palm tree". Because you also have just that, nothing else.

I can perfectly make all that is needed with my logo, including watermarks.

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Pivi
Pivi, Bill was talking about delegating someone to be in charge of the design process, not selecting their own design as the preferred choice.

I don't see how 3 persons that posted their solutions here can be in charge.

If anything like that, than it should be one person, in this case Dean.

You cannot be the judge and the participant. If you want to be the judge then stay out of the game.

I posted my suggestions because i they wanted for members to post their suggestion.

It way funny reading these pages and looking all of you really pushing and defending your suggestions.

It's the same with me. I think my is the best, like you think your is the best.

That's completely the wrong approach. It's not a competition where we all submit a design and pick a winner. There's no one creative genius among us who can hit upon the perfect logo. Not even design companies work that way. Jointly, we have a better chance of creating something unique and presentable. If you farm it out to just one freelance designer, you'll probably end up with something mundane and predictable.

Your opinion...

Edited by Pivi

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PatientPalms
Pivi, Bill was talking about delegating someone to be in charge of the design process, not selecting their own design as the preferred choice.

Correct, sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm sure things get lost in the translation.

I think the leader of the group should pick two others, his or her choice and the 3 should brainstorm. Logo requirements should be identified by the group first and then logos should be created. The 3 logos should be polled and majority wins.

This is a good course of action.

IPSLogoProof2.jpg

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