Is it possible to face frost threat?

[Rafael 429]

In May i bought one archontophoenix alexandrae (30 cm trunked/base and 4,5 m tall), wich i show on this photo. I am still looking for one archontophoenix cunnighamiana (not easily found here), wich i know is more frost tolerant.

Well, here we have maybe 10/20 frost nights a year. Half of them the lower temperature raise -4 C.

I think this one will face frost strongly.

However i wonder if we can do anything to face the frost, concerning to a big palm like this.

Does anyone knows any method to face this problem.

SOS, frost is coming in about 15 days!!!

[Palmə häl′ik 361]

Frost blanket or something to cover the top.

Landscape lighting is the trick; me thinks.

I'm all over the idea...

[MattyB 2,160]

Simply draping a sheet over the crown helps a lot. I've found that the fitted sheets with the elastic band around the edges works best for resisting blowing off in a breeze.

[Nick L 5]

Simply draping a sheet over the crown helps a lot. I've found that the fitted sheets with the elastic band around the edges works best for resisting blowing off in a breeze.

Would that be satin.... or plain ole cotton?

[MattyB 2,160]

I'm not high falootin' so cotton....old dirty ones.

[Caryota_gigas 10]

If you get 10-20 frost that could go as low as -4°C... Kiss that palm goodbye!

[Caryota_gigas 10]

Frosted Archontos

Check out post 185 A. purpurea, and 186 A. alexandra

These always damage VERY easily from frost, even when protected. These saw 2 nights as low as -3.5°C which did them in. The A. purpurea is dead, the A. alexanrae may survive, but will never be strong enough for next year.

[_Keith 773]

I have zoned cheated for many years, but I got to say that with the climate you described, I see no way you will keep that palm alive. The best you can achieve is a slow death.

And I would be fully delighted to see you prove me wrong.

[Paul The Palm Doctor! 9]

Oh, Rafael:

I think that the best one can do is water more generously for several days before the freeze event(s) then the day of the impending freeze/frost move the mulch away from the trunk area (maybe a few feet around) and let the stored heat in the soil rise up towards the palms' crowns these cold nights. I would think that you will have a higher temperature where the palms' crowns are anyway (maybe by 3-3 C.) so you will get help from nature.

Hope that I'm right, Rafael!

Pablo

[PalmatierMeg 7,419]

Rafael, afraid I must agree with Michael. Your Archos face a hazardous winter - 10 to 20 nights at 0C or below pose a big hazard. When nights get so low how quickly do daytime temps go up and how high? Is it frosty for 1-2 hours or all night? Where I live temps can drop near 0 a few times each winter if I am unlucky. But that happens not long before sunrise. When the sun rises, temps rise very quickly. But if frost formed for 8-10 hours many of my palms might not make it, including the Archos.

[Exotic Life 119]

SOS, frost is coming in about 15 days!!!

Do you mean that there is frost forecasted in 15 days? Do you live somewhere between the mountains inland or something?

Robbin

[bahia 15]

I also think your A. alexandre doesn't stand much of a chance of long term survival if you get that many nights of frost each year. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, this species is much more sensitive to freeze damage than A. cunninghamiana, and I wouldn't even plant this species if I knew I would regularly get a -4C freeze at least once each winter. I think you would only be successful with the A. alexandre if you have it planted below evergreen trees that can keep the temperatures warmer. It gets too tall too quickly to easily protect it from freezing every winter, in my opinion.

If you don't have heavy evergreen tree cover to plant below, I'd suggest this palm is best as a permanent container plant that you can drag under cover when it threatens to get cold. Planting it out in the open with your conditions, sounds like a recipe for palm suicide.

[gyuseppe 584]

sorry Rafael ! with these temperatures arcontrophoenix alexandrae have little hope of surviving,but I and my other friends grow successfully arcontrophoenix cunninghamiana with these temperatures.

[Rafael 429]

Ray and Matt: the group of leaves has 2,5 m diameter, it wont be easy to cover it all, or are you suggesting to cover only the new fronds or the crown shaft and the new spear? Must i remove it before sun rising?

Michael: i havent scan those temperatures yet. I will make it this time. But i think we will have here a pair of at least -3ºC nights. However the frost is light and begins maybe two hours before sun rising. Beyond that, i have planted this adult archie near the house and protected from winds, face sun rising and south. Considering its age and dimension i am hopeful it will win those days.

Pablo: como estás!? i will try to follow your advisement; however it is not easy to forecast frost nights.

Meg: the colder nights temperature raises 0 for maybe 4 hours, the maximum. I am not really sure how many frost nights, its duration, its lower temperature. I will scan it this time.

Robin: I live 800 meters from the sea, in a 9b zone, much humidity, and sometimes cold nights too. However extraordiordinary sunny and warmy days, during 10 months.

Bahia: My palm is too tall already, planted near other palms, and protected from sea winds.

Giuseppe: I am trying to bye a cunninghamiana, well sized, but it has been hard to find one!

I must inform the group that this palm was bought from a store in wich it standed outdoors, for two years, with almost the same climate conditions, and it arrived only with the older leaves burned.

By the way, did you ever heared about watering before sun rising, in frost nights, to avoid temperature shock?

Thank u all for your advisements, even the bad ones! I will keep you informed about the behaviour of this archie friend! Also with photos.

Edited November 21, 2009 by rafael

[Caryota_gigas 10]

This palm damages easily from any frost. Throwing sheets and so forth over it will NOT help, trust me, I've been there.

For that palm to survive you will have to have a suspended cover over the plant, a thick one too. Or a miniature, heated, greenhouse.

[SubTropicRay 177]

Rafael, if you have nearby trees, spring replanting under canopy would be advised. Then your frost concerns would be eliminated.

[Rafael 429]

Michael: i suggest you to take a lokk at http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17141. I had 3 archontophoenix alexandrae. Two small, died immediatly. Another, a little bigger (but maybe 50% smaller than the one i have now), fought a lot, seem to be recovering, but colapsed in April. What do u think about Walts suggestion? Thanks.

Ray: waht kind of trees are u talking about. Anyway they wont be able to stand above the canopy, when they grow up!

Edited November 21, 2009 by rafael

[Pivi 13]

Rafael, if you get frost and low temperature like that every year, then whatever you do will not protect your archo long-term.

Because if it get's damaged totally every year, eventually it will die.

Maybe you will be able to save it first year, maybe even second... but defoliating every year is not a way to go.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Pivi

[Paco 1]

Rafael,

I wouldn't worry much, your Archonto, it's not an alexandrae, but a cunninghamiana,notice the color of the inflorescence, take a look beneath the leafs, you will probably find ramenta. That might also the reason of that palm being the only survivor last winter.

Best regards from another Iberian

Paco

[Pivi 13]

Paco, i think you got it wrong.

He bought this palm in May this year.

The palm you are talking about with inflorescence (link) eventually died in april this year, as i understand.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Pivi

[Rafael 429]

Pivi and Paco: this palm, with the influorescense, is the one i bought in May and wich i wanna save. It is now very healthy. And is also the one that faced similar climate conditions on nursery. However i always thought it was an alexandrae, because the base of the trunk is larger.

[Pivi 13]

Rafael, Paco could we right.

Archontophoenix cunnighamiana has purple inflorescence.

Why don't you post bigger picture of the palm crown, and maybe detailed pic of leaf underside.

[Rafael 429]

Pivi, is this one enough?

Latter i will upload underside leafs photo

[Pivi 13]

Yes Rafael.

I'm not an expert, but cunnighamiana does have purple inflorescence, while alexandrae has white.

Paco pointed out good!

[Rafael 429]

E então, Cunninghamiana é mais forte geada enfrentando?

Edited November 21, 2009 by rafael

[Pivi 13]

Yes, cunnighamiana is the strongest of the genus.

[Rafael 429]

I read about it at pacsoa, and it really seems to be a cunninghamiana.

Uploading more photos.

[Pivi 13]

why did you change your post above to portugese?

yes, it looks like cunnighamiana.

It's 99% percent cunnighamiana. We can confirm it when you post macro foto of the leaf underside.

ps. if you can say, how much a palm that size cost overthere?

Edited November 21, 2009 by Pivi

[Rafael 429]

Pivi, i dont know what you are talking about, i didnt change anything.!!!!

Tomorrow i will upload underside leaf photos.

This one costed € 450.

Thanks for advisements.

[Pivi 13]

Pivi, i dont know what you are talking about, i didnt change anything.!!!!

Tomorrow i will upload underside leaf photos.

This one costed € 450.

Thanks for advisements.

You did. You posted at 5:03 and then edited at 5:06.

The post was originally in english, saying something like "so cunnighamiana can take frost better".

And now is in portugese

E então, Cunninghamiana é mais forte geada enfrentando?

[Rafael 429]

LOL, i dont know why it happened, and now i can do nothing to change it!!!

Edited November 21, 2009 by rafael

[Pivi 13]

I just commented because it was funny

[Rafael 429]

Cunninghamiana or alexandrae?

[Rafael 429]

Another one

Edited November 23, 2009 by rafael

[Pivi 13]

Rafael, the leaflets are not detailed (enough big and quality) as they sould be to see the ramenta and to tell for sure.

It must be really close-up macro pic to see it on the leaflet. But let's see what others say.

[Kostas 155]

Its true that from the first picture,the palm is droopier and so more A. cunninghamiana like. But could also be a hybrid so checking the leaflets would be good for a positive id. Also checking the flowers according to the original description of A. cunninghamiana and A. alexandrae,as well as the fruits(fruit and seed shape,seed fibers)would give a 100% positive id and i see they are all present so it can be done

[Rafael 429]

According to what is described at http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Archontopho...inghamiana.html, and considering above pictures about flower, fruit, trunk, pregnant look of the crown (a fact twice this year), i believe is cunninghamiana.

But i will later upload a good picture of underside leaf.

[Pivi 13]

it would also be good you take a night shot with flash of the underside of the leaf.

If it shows silver it's alexandrae, if it's plain green it's cunnighamiana.

For example, this is how bottom side of alexandrae leaf looks like in the night

Edited November 23, 2009 by Pivi

[Rafael 429]

These were taken few minutes ago.

Edited November 23, 2009 by rafael

[Pivi 13]

Rafael sorry but this pictures have low quality so we really can't see anything.

The picture must have good quality and must be with flash at night so if it's silver it will reflect, like the one i showed you above.

Are you taking these pictures with mobile phone maybe?

Edited November 23, 2009 by Pivi