Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

" In Hawaii nobody is really a gardener - its too easy to grow things".......


trioderob

Recommended Posts

interesting quote that was told to me by a professional horticulturalist at major public tropical garden over the weekend.

the premise was that with 83f days all year and rain every other day - you could put a stick in the ground and it would turn into a tree in no time.

he indicted that in hawaii a gardener was someone who cleaned up the unwanted plants and weeds - there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there.

I have been to Hilo myself years ago when Hawaii had the solar eclipse.

it was in the mid 80s and rained every other day for 2 hours after the rain it was bright sunshine all afternoon and hot.

when I go to RSN and they have new palms from Hawaii stacked on pallets - they look perfect - bright green and vibrant-

even a novice could see that they are healthy and fast growing.

you can see they are not california palms - they look too good.

so here is the question - is it too easy to grow palms in Hawaii or do the growers not care about that - and are just happy to be able to grow therare palms ?

is anyone really a gardener in Hawaii ?

Edited by trioderob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that easy here on the west coast of O`ahu. We get only about 25" rain a year.

Gotta water twice a week w/drip

But it's true, when it rains everything grows. :lol: Weeds too. :rage:

Wai`anae Steve-------www.waianaecrider.com
Living in Paradise, Leeward O`ahu, Hawai`i, USA
Temperature range yearly from say 95 to 62 degrees F
Only 3 hurricanes in the past 51 years and no damage. No floods where I am, No tornados, No earthquakes
No moles, squirrels, chipmunks, deer, etc. Just the neighbors "wild" chickens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

just trying to stir up controversy? :o

not really-

here is what I wonder :

are the conditions so good there that no matter what palms you care to grow (outside of palms like jubs that like cool nights)

you could just plant a young palm or seedling in the ground - and then if you wanted - come back in 10 years later to find a huge adult palm standing there.

is it literally THAT easy ???

Edited by trioderob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a pretty broad generalization. Hawaii has tons of different growing climates and conditions. For instance on the Big Island alone on the Kona side, depending on elevation, they only receive about the same amount of rain as SoCal. The Hilo side is much different but again depending on elevation you may still need to water.

Encinitas on a hill 1.5 miles from the ocean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot address gardening in Hawaii but I do get that attitude when talking to gardeners in the States.They feel that I live in paradise and everything just grows - Nothing could be further from the truth.It never drops below 64F so there is never any cold or even cool temps to control insects and other pests.I must spray constantly to keep up with the never ending variety of bugs that are trying their best to eat my palms and other ornamentals.Iguanas eat seedlings and break fronds.I must fertilse often - or tropical downpours leach the soil.

We get five months of rain - often five inches per day and then we get five months with no rain - not a drop.The dry season also involves fierce dry winds that rip leaves to shreds.It is difficult to find palms that can survive with such extremes.

El Oasis - beach garden, distinct wet/dry season ,year round 20-38c

Las Heliconias - jungle garden ,800m elevation,150+ inches rainfall, year round 15-28c

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trioderob, for the most part, yes, it is that easy here on the Hilo side. That doesn't mean we don't have issues with bugs and fungus and weeds that will grow 50 times faster than any palm (and will quickly overwhelm small palms in the ground). But, if you were to plant 100 palms, preferably from 5G size or larger, you could come back ten years later and my guess is that 90 of them would still be alive and thriving. Some, but probably not even a majority, might be a bit yellow from lack of fertilizer.

Incidentally, the question peaked my curiousity so I googled "gardener". The first definition: "someone who takes care of a garden". Pretty much covers the entire range I would think, no matter how much, or little you have to do, in order to "take care of the garden". But, "taking care of" takes on different meanings, depending on what your environment is like. We may not have to be concerned about irrigation and protection from cold, but removing old fronds and weed control are on an entirely different level with 140 inches of rain per year and fast (or faster!) growth, 12 months a year.

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it is pretty much that easy. thats one of the reasons that I would love to move back there. Funny that you should bring this up just now, because I just said almost the same thing to a friend of mine last night who lives in Haiku on East Maui. He agreed with me, and he's been a landscaper on Maui for a very long time. I just put a son of mine on a plane to Maui on Tuesday as he was moving back there, lucky guy.

I can only speak for the windward side, of which I have lived on both Maui and the big island, where there is plenty of rain. Its also the volcanic soil and the lack of real seasons and the amt of sun etc. The downside is the volume of weeds etc that can be huge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just my opinion, but it would not bother me if palms were "too easy" to grow; yes, I would just be happy to grow rare palms. And it would not concern me how others might evaluate my gardening skills. :)

Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

another place that I have been to like Hilo is the HOH rain forest in up state washington near Canada

it rains every single day of the year.

for plants that can take the cooler weather the growth is astounding.

hoh_rain_forest.jpg

Edited by trioderob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With reference to Kim's post, just one additional, quick comment before I head out the door for some "gardening" :lol:

Many years ago, just before moving to the Big Island, I had a conversation with a longtime, and very well known, palm grower in SoCal. He said "why would you want to move to Hawaii? There's no challenge in growing palms there!". And my response was "Exactly! I want to plant the palms, stand back and watch them grow like crazy. I'll happily pass on the challenge aspect!"

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's definitely expected in tropical places, that palms grow easily without much thought and care. Its part of the reason why I'm not as impressed when I see them. Although I enjoy looking at palms from tropical regions, I don't see the challenge or any artistic touch. There are a few exceptions.

I always get a laugh when I see the before and after pics of gardens where it snows, because the passion for palms is undeniable. I can also relate when I see palm gardens in desert like conditions because I'm familiar with the challenges.

LA | NY | OC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion gardening is not easy anywhere, it takes work to create and maintain a garden no matter where you are. Yes plant material and growing techniques are different according to where you are gardening. I am gardening in a few locations CA & HI and I have to say I have different challenges at both places, I don't think easy is the right word for gardening in Hawaii in fact my wife refers to gardening here in Hawaii as mega gardening, yes palms do grow well here as everything else does including pest.

Gardening to me is a passion and very rewarding no matter where I am.

Jerry

Jerry D. Andersen

JD Andersen Nursery

Fallbrook, CA / Leilani Estates, HI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I didn't take the original quote as a insult to gardening in the tropics, mainly because its the truth. It is easy. If you like the wide diversity of plants that grow in the tropics, why wouldn't you want to live there? Why wouldn't you like it easier rather than harder? Thats just one aspect of gardening anyway.

Even in Hawaii, you see extremes in both gardening knowledge and variety of plants in a yard. There is a lot to be said about the knowledge it takes to propagate plants and expanding ones knowledge of a larger and larger field of different plants. Use Bo as an example-hes on one extreme of gardening and knowledge, and then look at someones yard that has a few ti, crotons and palms. There is a huge difference in how they perceive gardening. One is also a good example of passion, the other is almost total disinterest in gardening. You will find that in most any part of the world. The fun in living in the tropics, if you have a love of/passion for gardening is that you can take it to much higher levels than you can elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I think it's a crass comment for a professional horticulturist to make - true or otherwise, and reminiscent of a suggestion by the chief of Sydney's Royal Botanic Gardens, for Australia to "unhook" itself from the "arbitrary" four seasons it inherited from Britain. Worthy contenders for the Monty Python "Four Yorkshiremen" Award IMO.. ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not agree with the initial issue. Hawaii has lots of climates and lots of different garden situations. Tropical gardening and agriculture has problems too. A garden is more than simply growing plants and needs skills and luck in any place of this world. If gardening means landscaping, then Hawaii and the Canaries are difficult locations to landscape because of the steep or rocky volcanic plots.

Like Ari, I believe that many people around the world think we in the Canary Islands live in paradise. After >14 years here, when I visit parks and gardens I mostly notice the problems, only sometimes I feel the "paradise effect" :) .

As for rain... well... half of this world growers are irrigating, while the other half is weeding. The ones in the sun fight agains bugs, the ones in the rain fight against fungi. Nutritional disorders will show up anywhere, no matter how fertile is the original soil. There is no spot in this world that can host together all the existing >2.000 species of palms.

Of course, growing tropical plants in the tropics is easier than growing tropical plants out of the tropics. Regarding the challenge in growing tropicals, I agree with Bo. I prefere litlle or no challenge. Life is hard enough, anyhow.

Carlo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he is just being 'sour grapes'. I like to garden to suit the climate... trust me, if I live in Melbourne I would grow tulips... I like tropical plants, that is why I live here...

We get five months of rain - often five inches per day and then we get five months with no rain - not a drop.The dry season also involves fierce dry winds that rip leaves to shreds.It is difficult to find palms that can survive with such extremes.

Scott,

I think your condition is very close to mine.... except maybe the 5 inches of rain every day... we can get 2 inches easy though...

Regards, Ari :)

Ari & Scott

Darwin, NT, Australia

-12°32'53" 131°10'20"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aloha Carlo and others – for me, one of the best things about palm gardening is getting to know other palm nuts and hearing about their palm growing preferences and gardening challenges. I’ve enjoyed reading the posted comments and individual perceptions of palm gardening somewhere else. My first IPS Biennial was Costa Rica 2008, where I enjoyed my time with other IPS members just as much as seeing the many great palms there. My perceptions of gardening in the tropics have certainly changed during the 3 ½ years since I relocated to Big Island to study tropical gardening and gain experience in growing palms and other tropical companion plants here.

While living in Northern California I hoped to eventually retire and relocate to live in a year-round tropical location with lots of palm trees. I “early retired” in May 2006 when my partner Tom unexpectedly received a good job offer here on Big Island. One of our palm pals Brian Bruning in the Northern California Chapter of IPS placed an advance phone call to introduce us to Donald Sanders on Big Island (this kind of networking is one of the perks of belonging to IPS). Shortly after we arrived here Donald took us to our first Hawai’i Island Palm Society meeting (up at Dean Ouer’s place in Kaloko mauka), and Donald helped us learn about the different areas of Big Island that we might want to buy our home in based on my palm preferences. With Donald’s input we then selected a home in Kailua Kona, in a neighborhood of 1 acre Agricultural zoned lots. My new young palm garden is now a work-in-progress after I learned how to use my o-o bar to chip planting holes into lava rock and pry up / relocate lava boulders. I will occasionally chip into shallow lava tubes with my o-o bar, but luckily so far I have not encountered any really deep / large lava tubes running underneath our lot.

Big Island has 12 of the 13 climate zones in the world. We are only lacking the permafrost climate zone, because the winter mountain top snow melts during our warmer months. Our 12 distinct climate zones range from tropical rain forests in Hilo to Ka‘u’s arid desert to the snow-capped summit of Mauna Kea.

I enjoyed my years as a member of the Northern California Chapter of IPS where we had many nice events with palm garden tours / potlucks / rare palm auctions, great chapter leadership from people like Darold Petty and Edith Bergstrom, and monthly volunteer work parties at the Oakland Palmetum. It was great to see Edith and Darold in Costa Rica, and it has been nice to make many new palm friends at the IPS Biennial in Costa Rica and here in the Hawai’i Island Palm Society Chapter of IPS.

Dan on the Big Island of Hawai'i / Dani en la Isla Grande de Hawai

Events Photographer roving paparazzi "konadanni"

Master Gardener, University of Hawai’i College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources

Certified Arborist, International Society of Arboriculture

LinkedIn & email: konadanni@gmail.com / Facebook & Twitter & Google Plus: DanTom BigIsland

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A little while ago when I was picking up fallen fronds, I had to climb about 10 ft up in an Arenga undulatifolia in order to reach a fallen Pigafetta frond, which had gotten stuck WAY up in the Arenga crown and I couldn't help but think "wow, this is gardening on a whole different level!". And Jerry, I like "mega gardening"! That's certainly how I feel about what we're doing. Except for mowing the grass (we have a lawn service come in and take care of that every couple of weeks) I do the maintenance on our five acres, with everything that involves. And in my time off I'm in the nursery area (10 acres adjacent to our garden) where some weeds will be 30 ft tall in a year if not exterminated early on! :mrlooney:

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would take a really ace gardener to raise, say Lilacs or Colorado Blue Spruces on, say, Kauai, or Molokai, or Ohau . . . . .

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...you could put a stick in the ground and it would turn into a tree in no time.

... in hawaii a gardener was someone who cleaned up the unwanted plants and weeds - there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there.

...so here is the question - is it too easy to grow palms in Hawaii or do the growers not care about that - and are just happy to be able to grow therare palms ?

is anyone really a gardener in Hawaii ?

So by extension of that thought process, am I not a farmer in Hawaii because all I have to do is stick a coffee or fruit tree in a happy place; keep the unwanted plants, weeds and bugs off; supply a little fertilizer, trim the trees and harvest the fruit?

gmp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...you could put a stick in the ground and it would turn into a tree in no time.

... in hawaii a gardener was someone who cleaned up the unwanted plants and weeds - there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there.

...so here is the question - is it too easy to grow palms in Hawaii or do the growers not care about that - and are just happy to be able to grow therare palms ?

is anyone really a gardener in Hawaii ?

So by extension of that thought process, am I not a farmer in Hawaii because all I have to do is stick a coffee or fruit tree in a happy place; keep the unwanted plants, weeds and bugs off; supply a little fertilizer, trim the trees and harvest the fruit?

gmp

I think it his comment was more along the lines of someone stating:

"look at the Washingtonia robustas I got to grow "

(and they live in southern california )

Edited by trioderob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there.

is anyone really a gardener in Hawaii ?

Since when is the "hobby aspect" in "getting things to stay alive," what gardening is all about. If that's what your goal is, why don't you make it really hard and try growing subtropicals in Canada. If it's the challenge that makes you a gardener, then make it a real challenge.

For me the challenge in gardening is to create beauty, and to grow things that are rare in cultivation. And that would be the case for anywhere I would chose to "garden." It doesn't make any sense to say growing desert plants in your desert garden disqualifies you as a gardener. After all you can just stick a cactus and succulent in the ground and they grow. But it would be a real challenge "getting things to stay alive" if I tried creating a desert garden here. Would that make me more of a gardener?

If you want the challenge of growing stuff where it is unhappy and doesn't really want to grow, you can do that in Hawaii as well. There are plenty of people here who struggle trying to grow roses, tomatoes, and grapes. But if you want to call them gardeners, and not those that plant things that thrive in this climate, then that sounds more like sour grapes.

And for anyone that thinks it is easier "gardening" here --- I've got a nice guest house for rent. All that's necessary is 8 hours of easy Hawaiian gardening for every day you stay.

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there.

Since when is the "hobby aspect" in "getting things to stay alive," what gardening is all about. If that's what your goal is, why don't you make it really hard and try growing subtropicals in Canada. If it's the challenge that makes you a gardener, then make it a real challenge.

For me the challenge in gardening is to create beauty, and to grow things that are rare in cultivation. And that would be the case for anywhere I would chose to "garden." It doesn't make any sense to say growing desert plants in your desert garden disqualifies you as a gardener. After all you can just stick a cactus and succulent in the ground and they grow. But it would be a real challenge "getting things to stay alive" if I tried creating a desert garden here. Would that make me more of a gardener?

If you want the challenge of growing stuff where it is unhappy and doesn't really want to grow, you can do that in Hawaii as well. There are plenty of people here who struggle trying to grow roses, tomatoes, and grapes. But if you want to call them gardeners, and not those that plant things that thrive in this climate, then that sounds more like sour grapes.

there again - no "sour grapes" were intended.

the topic was more related to tropical plants as this is a palm forum.

Bo himself stated that "90% of the palms planted" would be large adults if you just put them in the ground as a 5 G

and walked away for 10 years.

thats easy growin !

:)

Edited by trioderob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since most the HI guys are implants from Cali, I am sure they can tell you which is more challenging :) For me I would assume while much easier to grow tropicals and palms, the year round growth rates create their own challenges. I for one appreciate the slow down in winter here in SoCal. It gives me a chance to catch up on pruning, limbing up, digging out old material, etc, for early spring. One run of the clippers on a hedge last 6 month to a year. Hawaii? 1 month? I also value the slower speed since I am still young. Once I am older many of my plants will be the perfect size and I will not have to strain my neck to see them and will have years to appreciate them. But on the down side, some of the things I am growing might not ever make it to maturity. It is much easier to get fungus here or loss something to a cold snap. SO you put ten years into a nice Dypsis only to have it get pink rot. Not fun.

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there.

Since when is the "hobby aspect" in "getting things to stay alive," what gardening is all about. If that's what your goal is, why don't you make it really hard and try growing subtropicals in Canada. If it's the challenge that makes you a gardener, then make it a real challenge.

For me the challenge in gardening is to create beauty, and to grow things that are rare in cultivation. And that would be the case for anywhere I would chose to "garden." It doesn't make any sense to say growing desert plants in your desert garden disqualifies you as a gardener. After all you can just stick a cactus and succulent in the ground and they grow. But it would be a real challenge "getting things to stay alive" if I tried creating a desert garden here. Would that make me more of a gardener?

If you want the challenge of growing stuff where it is unhappy and doesn't really want to grow, you can do that in Hawaii as well. There are plenty of people here who struggle trying to grow roses, tomatoes, and grapes. But if you want to call them gardeners, and not those that plant things that thrive in this climate, then that sounds more like sour grapes.

there again - no "sour grapes" were intended.

the topic was more related to tropical plants as this is a palm forum.

Bo himself stated that "90% of the palms planted" would be large adults if you just put them in the ground as a 5 G

and walked away for 10 years.

thats easy growin !

I would have to partially disagree with Bo. There are plenty of places in Hawaii if you planted a small palm it would die. Even in the lush rain forest where he lives. There are many invasive plants like guava that would over grow and strangle all but the fastest most robust species, provided the wild pigs didn't get to them first. And unless you prepared the area with brought in soil, or carefully choose your spots, like any gardener, your results would be less than ideal. And I would say that if you planted a bunch of small palms in some places in East Hawaii and walked away for ten years, you wouldn't even know if they made it until you had some heavy equipment clear you a way to get to them.

But I still have to disagree with the basic premise that growing plants in the climate in which they grow best means that you are not really gardening. That sounds ludicrous.

And I didn't really mean to imply "sour grapes" in a confrontational way, only that I will guess that you won't find many in Hawaii that will say they aren't really landscaping or gardening because things grow fast and green. It will only be those that live elsewhere, or don't do their own planting and maintenance. Easy growing doesn't necessarily mean easy gardening.

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there.

Since when is the "hobby aspect" in "getting things to stay alive," what gardening is all about. If that's what your goal is, why don't you make it really hard and try growing subtropicals in Canada. If it's the challenge that makes you a gardener, then make it a real challenge.

For me the challenge in gardening is to create beauty, and to grow things that are rare in cultivation. And that would be the case for anywhere I would chose to "garden." It doesn't make any sense to say growing desert plants in your desert garden disqualifies you as a gardener. After all you can just stick a cactus and succulent in the ground and they grow. But it would be a real challenge "getting things to stay alive" if I tried creating a desert garden here. Would that make me more of a gardener?

If you want the challenge of growing stuff where it is unhappy and doesn't really want to grow, you can do that in Hawaii as well. There are plenty of people here who struggle trying to grow roses, tomatoes, and grapes. But if you want to call them gardeners, and not those that plant things that thrive in this climate, then that sounds more like sour grapes.

there again - no "sour grapes" were intended.

the topic was more related to tropical plants as this is a palm forum.

Bo himself stated that "90% of the palms planted" would be large adults if you just put them in the ground as a 5 G

and walked away for 10 years.

thats easy growin !

:)

Sure it's easy growin'. You're in the tropics growing tropical plants in fantastic volcanic soil. But I guess the idea is that gardening is more than just sticking something in the ground. You want a gardening challenge in HI? Start a plantation of Sugar Maples and Birch trees in the lowland areas of the Kona coast.

Coastal San Diego, California

Z10b

Dry summer subtropical/Mediterranean

warm summer/mild winter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there again - no "sour grapes" were intended.

the topic was more related to tropical plants as this is a palm forum.

Bo himself stated that "90% of the palms planted" would be large adults if you just put them in the ground as a 5 G

and walked away for 10 years.

thats easy growin !

:)

Just for the record - this doesn't happen by just putting a 5G plant in the ground and walking away for 10 years:

post-3609-1258077137_thumb.jpg

But this is what happens if you do:

post-3609-1258077154_thumb.jpg

gmp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And George,

I'll guarantee you that someone has "gardened" in that second pic at some point in the last ten years. That could be only 6-8 months since the last "gardening" took place there. Heck, that's how half my garden looks like right now. :)

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously an interesting topic.... But I think we are addressing a few different issues, as if they were one and the same. My comment about 90% of palms surviving on their own for ten years was specific to my area (Leilani Estates). Even down in Kapoho, which is only 5 miles away, you need irrigation for instance. And not that anyone is likely to try this but I'm convinced my statement is correct. Obviously it depends on what palms you plant. If you plant a bunch of small understory palms, such as Chamaedorea or Calyptrocalyx, NO, they would never make it because they would be suffocated by all sorts of vines and others weeds. But plant singletrunked, fast growing palms, and they stand an outstanding chance of surviving, long term. I have sold Clinostigma samoense (5G, about 5 ft tall or so) to a few people, primarily from Oregon, who bought vacant land here. They planted the palms, then went back to Oregon, in some cases for up to two years before they returned. Every single palm was fine, but obviousy surrounded by weeds. Is that gardening? Of course not, but a specific question was asked about longterm survival on their own. Incidentally, two of the issues that Dean mentioned as potential problems, guava and wild pigs, have not been a problem for us. We did fence in our five acres to prevent the pigs from coming in every night and making a mess, but while they had access to our property, they never destroyed any of the small palms. And the pigs are all over the forest, where I have the nursery, and where I have also planted hundreds of palms. I also have thousands of pots with palms there, and the pig issue is a definite non-issue. Pigs are simply not interested in palms. As far as the guava goes, the guava likes the dense, dark, understory of the Ohi'a forest, and we have tens of thousands of guava trees adjacent to us. But they don't strangle smaller plants, or palms. They might prevent rain from getting to the ground in some places, but then again it wouldn't be smart to plant small palms next to them anyway.

In the original post, this statement was made: "there was no hobby aspect in getting things to stay alive there." I have to admit, I have no idea what the definition of "hobby aspect" would be, and why that's even remotely relevant to the issue of gardening? The way I see it, gardening (obviously) revolves around the garden and the growth in it. The more growth, the more gardening is necessary. By that definition, with 12 months of non-stop growth, gardening here on the Hilo side of the Big Island simply can't be compared to gardening in SoCal, where there's little, or no, growth during the winter season. And that's why Jerry's "mega gardening" expression is most appropriate! :)

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After having lived in San Diego for many years and now in Hilo, maintaining and creating a group of plantings wherever I am

is such a joy and spending time day after day tending, 'the garden', is reward enough. I do consider myself a gardener, certainly

not a master gardener, but still spend may hours a week planting, potting, weeding, and scheming. I agree here in Hilo growing

palms is incredibly rewarding and the species available makes the mind go wild. The challenge as with any garden is where to plant

to enjoy the species and create a balance of both palm and non palm varieties as they grow to maturity. I have so many different

geographical conditions in my little acre which in itself creates many challenges. It's one hell of a lot of work, but I'm loving almost

every minute of it. Easy? You gotta be kidding. (I keep telling myself digging holes keeps me young)

Gardening to me isn't just the definition of taking care of one, but also its planning and construction.

Tim

Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The science/art of gardening is a huge topic and to make such a simplistic claim about gardening in Hawai'i was ignorant and sloppy - unless the person was saying it without being too serious.

I will attempt to hold back from delving deep into the vast array of challenges that 'gardeners' in Hawai'i face when discussing growing plants here (not specifically palms). However as an appetiser our challenges include the seemingly endless variability of climate and micro-climate zones within the high islands of the archipelago and an even more seemingly infinite spectrum of harmful insects (many dozens of species of mites, aphids, scale, mealybug, gall wasps, stinging caterpillars, pathogenic fungi, viruses, reniform nematodes, rats, naturalised exotic birds, feral pigs, feral cats, feral axis deer, humidity issues, water issues, wind issues, and soil issues.

Since this is a forum focused on palm growing, in the case of gardening, I must say that even palm growing here isn't necessarily easier than it is in other climates in which palms can be cultivated. True, we can grow a wonderful variety of species that are quite difficult in many other parts of the globe, and it is also true that healthy well-tended palms planted in Hawai'i (in the right spot) may out-pace the growth of similar palms elsewhere. Thankfully some of the above listed challenges don't apply to palms specifically.

Still I have the feeling that whoever made the comment, "In Hawaii nobody is really a gardener - its too easy to grow things"......." might have been referring to what I have seen in my 4.5 years here. There is quite less enthusiasm or even awareness about all of the rare, 'new', and interesting species of palms and other plants that the public at large might be able to grow than I have seen or heard about in other 'Horticultural meccas' of the world. Many conclusions could be drawn from this but I assume that it is a result of the fact that most of the commonly grown species of palms here are indeed quite beautiful, even if they are common. For folk that don't have a rabid enthusiasm for the exotic and rare may not see the point in trying new things. Availability of rare palms on O'ahu, the most developed and populated island in the archipelago is almost nil. The only way I have found to acquire species myself that weren't out of the common 'top ten species' grown everywhere on the island has been mainly to mail order from palm growers on Hawai'i Island or to purchase seed from far-flung locales. This is not 'easy growing' by any stretch.

To wrap up, I should say that aside from the few amazing horticultural enthusiasts who go to great efforts to grow amazing things here, at least on O'ahu, both availability and interest in growing plants that are not already wide-spread here is nothing like it is in coastal California.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bo,

Of course we are in agreement with the points you make when you include the details. I was only trying to make it clear and dispel what Robert thought he heard you say.

Robert said, "Bo himself stated that "90% of the palms planted" would be large adults if you just put them in the ground as a 5 G

and walked away for 10 years." I just wanted to make it clear as you also did - that for large fast growing single trunk palms planted in your neck of the woods, that is true. But to think that 90% of most palms planted in most places in Hawaii will survive on their own is incorrect. And in most cases a considerable amount of "gardening" will still have to be done before you can even put that "stick (or small palm) in the ground." And that planting a palm garden along with rare orchids, aroids, ferns, etc. and walking away from it with only occasional "clean up" is a pipe dream..

I only brought up pigs to further illustrate that in Hawaii you can't necessarily just plant it and forget it. Many don't realize that pigs can completely destroy a nicely planted unprotected tropical garden in a couple of nights. Jacob mentioned above a few of the many other pitfalls that an Hawaiian gardener must protect against.

And I had to mention the problem with guava (and other invasives) because I have had to battle it. And we've both seen places where it is so thick it would be impossible to even plant a palm, let alone watch it outcompete a dense guava grove.

In summary, I was only trying to dispel the myth that started this thread - that gardening with tropicals in Hawaii doesn't even need gardeners. And it takes no more effort than "putting sticks in the ground" and "cleaning up unwanted plants and weeds." I only wish it were so. But I will admit that in your little slice of paradise in Leilani, it is close to the truth. :)

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had people in Ohio tell me how wonderfuly easy California gardening must be.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had people in Ohio tell me how wonderfuly easy California gardening must be.

If I told you how much time, money, and effort just my lawn consumed, you would be amazed. And I had to pass on an underground sprinkler system, due to the cost of trenching here. In many areas of California, I could have done it for 1/10 of what it cost me in dollars, blood, sweat, and tears here. Gardening in California is easy. But the palms are expensive and slow.

animated-volcano-image-0010.gif.71ccc48bfc1ec622a0adca187eabaaa4.gif

Kona, on The Big Island
Hawaii - Land of Volcanoes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luxury, my father used to makes us drain out an entire lake and then we had to dig 2 miles down just to loosen up the soil, and he would pay us sixpence each for the whole month, if we were lucky. Now that's gardening.

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

another place that I have been to like Hilo is the HOH rain forest in up state washington near Canada

it rains every single day of the year.

for plants that can take the cooler weather the growth is astounding.

hoh_rain_forest.jpg

Very nice still,and equally beautiful location.My eyes are spinning as though its eating something very sweet ! :drool:

And by the way nice topic.. :winkie:

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Luxury, my father used to makes us drain out an entire lake and then we had to dig 2 miles down just to loosen up the soil, and he would pay us sixpence each for the whole month, if we were lucky. Now that's gardening.

Wal, Did you have to wake up a half an hour before you went to sleep too? :huh:

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dean, as is usually the case I'm sure there's no disagreement between our main points. I just didn't want to make my already lengthy post even longer. I know firsthand how destructive the pigs can be. Which is why we ended up fencing our entire five acres. My point about them is that, in my experience, they are completely indifferent to palms. If they really liked palms, I would have a MAJOR problem in the nursery area. And the simple fact is that I don't. What typically happens is that they will dig up an entire area, and if that area happens to be in a garden, you've got a real mess on your hands. And if there happened to be small palms planted in that area, good chance that they were "accidentally" destroyed or damaged in the process. Not because the pigs are interested in them, but simply because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time! And I don't even know if I'm still on topic here!! :lol:

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...