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Carlo Morici

Hybrids in Phoenix - other than the usual canariensis x dactylifera

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Carlo Morici

Dear friends

I would like to know more from you about crosses of the Canary palm with other species different than P. reclinata and P. dactylifera, and see pictures to see how they look like, as we don’t see them here in the Canary Islands, so my experience is limited to few species.

There are crosses of P.canariensis with P. reclinata in a few gardens, parks and streets and it is very common to see hybrids of P.canariensis and P.dactylifera both in wild and cultivated conditions. These are highly variable and after various generations they can look very different each other.

Nevertheless, it is very hard to see here hybrids with other species. Only one more species is widely cultivated in the islands. This is P.roebelenii, which is widely cultivated but it seldom gives rise to hybrid progeny. “Other” Phoenix species are not purposely planted on the archipelago, to conserve the native species.

Just to show something, this is a wild cross in Tenerife with genes of P.canariensis and P.dactylifera. It is one of the largest I have ever seen as you can see by the size of the man as scale.

P1010085_redimensionar.jpg

Carlo

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Kris

Dear Carlos :)

Nice topic and beautiful still,And i must say that if all things move on fine..i think in the future we here will be producing similar hybrid seeds as seen in your stills.I have a male date palm and many variety of phoenix around,that would include even the Cidp. :drool:

But i must confess that the pure form Cidp seen around the palm in discussion looks more beautiful than the hybrid one. :winkie:

Lots of love,

kris :)

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Eric in Orlando

We have 4 P. rupicola x roebelenii, each varies slightly. Here are 2 of them

img_2756.jpg

9aab.jpg

P. reclinata x dactylifera

7503.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

I have seen sever specimens of P. roebelenii x reclinata at various places on Disney property.

A couple at Typhoon Lagoon

12c6.jpg

74fa.jpg

at EPCOT

img_2883.jpg

and then this unknown hybrid at Magic Kingdom

3ee8.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

and a few other unknown hybrids around Orlando

img_0421.jpg

img_0422.jpg

img_0415.jpg

these 2 are along the Florida Turnpike about an hour south of Orlando

img_1508.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

a P. roebelenii x ???, its a P. roebelenii on steroids

d7bf.jpg

P. dactylifera x ???

b207.jpg

???

796f.jpg

f5b9.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

2ac1.jpg

80a2.jpg

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M@ximus

Carlo, here a Phoenix aucalis x canariensis

Best M@x

post-180-1257526791_thumb.jpg

post-180-1257526841_thumb.jpg

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gyuseppe

eric very nice photos of hybrids phoenix.

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iamjv

Interesting topic indeed... I always tried to collect seeds from unique (hybridized) phoenix when I come across them. Have a number of them in pots and waiting to see how they mature.

Eric, the last palm pictured in post #6 is very unique.... you should try and collect seeds from it.

Below is a picture of a phoenix palm I came across in Corrizo Springs TX. I believe it's a dacty x roeb cross as the crown is a third the size it should be and less dense, additionally the leaflets are softer - less stiff. Fruit is also much smaller then that of dactylifera. Jv

post-362-1257601925_thumb.jpg

post-362-1257601952_thumb.jpg

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Matt N- Dallas

Wow! I love all of these hybrids. Especially the short one on the FL turnpike in #6 and the dact x reclinata crosses. I planted a 15 gal size canariensis x sylvestris a year ago that has grown well.

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floridagrower

Wow. The third Date in post 6 is outstanding.

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Kris

Dear Friends :)

Thanks for such lovely phoenix palm stills... :drool: And iam sure all the phoenix palm lovers are having a delightful time ! :winkie:

Thanks & Love,

kris :)

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PalmGuyWC

Wow!

Those Pheonix hybrids are spectacular. I particularly like the smaller growing kinds. Unfortunately anything with P. robe, half mixed, would not make it in my cold winters.

Dick

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Carlo Morici

Eric,

Thank you for your spectacular post.

Many of them look very interesting. Do you have more to show?!

This one on the right has an unusual way of blooming. So many inflorescence at once!

img_1508.jpg

Max,

The hybrid acaulis x canariensis is really interesting. Where is it? How old is it? Does it grow an aerial trunk? How do the fruits look like?

Matt,

Can I see the P. canariensis x sylvestris ?

Carlo

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iamjv

Carlo, that is an interesting phx. The one on the left is also with it's shorter, erect fronds - almost seems stunted! Jv

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M@ximus

Max,

The hybrid acaulis x canariensis is really interesting. Where is it? How old is it? Does it grow an aerial trunk? How do the fruits look like?

Carlo, the palm is here in Rome, It is about 20 yars old, have a short trunk ( compared with canariensis) and I don't know how do the fruits will look like, because not yet matured .

Best M@x

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Alicehunter2000

canary x reclinata?

Melbourne, Florida

post-97-1257789006_thumb.jpg

post-97-1257789022_thumb.jpg

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Carlo Morici

Fabulous... this was a badly needed palm topic. I searched +Phoenix +hybrid in this forum and little showed up. Now it exists, and has lots of pictures and 303 visits in 3 days. Thank you all, keep this going.

Why are not the hybrids between canariensis and roebelenii common if the two species are very common in gardens around the world.

JV, that picture was Eric's picture (see above). I just reposted it.

Max, your hybrid is an unexpected sight. I like the sulphur-yellow inflorescences. Where did they come from?! Both mother species have bright orange rachillae, don't they?

Carlo

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mlovecan
Why are not the hybrids between canariensis and roebelenii common if the two species are very common in gardens around the world.

I have one I bought at the palm center in London that looks identical to Eric's third photo in post 5 ( and is super fast ).

P. roebellini flowers too late for Canariensis. It can only be produced by hand pollonation after freezing pollen for a couple months.

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M@ximus

Max, your hybrid is an unexpected sight. I like the sulphur-yellow inflorescences. Where did they come from?! Both mother species have bright orange rachillae, don't they?

Carlo

Yes Carlo, it is a very nice and particular palm.

I can't say if inflorescences of acaulis is light yellow or orange as Canariensis , becuase I never saw a pure flowering acaulis before

Maybe this nice as you say" sulphur -yellow color , is only on hybrids!!??

The palm was crossed in Sicily. Do you know Sicily????????? :D :D

Best M@x

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Axel Amsterdam

I have always wanted to ask if this phoenix in Madrid Spain is a cross between CIDP and Dactylifera or something else?

It's pretty hardy because Madrid gets really cold on some winternights and definately is not a palmy place.

post-3264-1257972312_thumb.jpg

Edited by Axel Amsterdam
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Kris

Dear Axel :)

I have enlarged your still for the benefit of clarity,since i was unable to make out if its a hybrid or not.And hope you want mind ! :)

And to me it looks like a healthy CIDP standard form,and in that still there are 2 other butias.. :hmm:

post-108-1258010385_thumb.jpg

And i request our respected members to try to upload stills having res of at least 800x600 for the benefit of members nearing their 40's with some vision problems like me.i.e those needing to were specticals to have clear vision... :huh:

Thanks & Love,

kris :)

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Axel Amsterdam

Thanks Kris for resizing the picture. I must say that the phoenix looks a bit similar to the one Eric posted as Dacylifera x.. Maybe the trunk on this spanish one is slightly more fat but they look similar. Anyone else an opinion on this phoenix? It has been proven to be hardy enough to survive Madrid's winterclimate long term which is quite extraordinary. When i was in Madrid i have only seen one other phoenix in the center, no more.

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Al in Kona

The below pic shows two palms planted next to each other grown from seeds off of a palm in SoCal called Phoenix rupicola. To me it appears as if there may be some hybridization in this particular palm. What do the rest of your think? Whatever it may be I really like its looks. Glad to have it.

post-90-1258226686_thumb.jpg

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krishnaraoji88

I love the look of P. rupicola but its too cold sensitive for us in North Florida. I wonder if you could get a similar look by crossing it with one of the hardier Phoenix?

Krishna

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amazon exotics

Thanks Eric. You sure have a keen eye for the hybrids.

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iamjv

Axel, looks like a fairly pure (90%) CIDP to me.... a wonderful looking palm in a very nice setting. Jv

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chris78

Hi Krishna

I got Phoenix rupicola X relinata...... Its very fast growing and took 2 nights at 18F got about 50% damage but made fast recovery.... below is photo

post-111-1258361643_thumb.jpg

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chris78

Also a friend has some P canariensis X rupicola here is a hhoto of them in his yard....

post-111-1258362052_thumb.jpg

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iamjv

Chris78, nice looking palms! I have some of those hybrids myself and can't wait for them to get to that size. Appreciate the cold damage report as well. Jv

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Eric in Orlando
Thanks Eric. You sure have a keen eye for the hybrids.

Thanks. You see so many in FL, especially around here. Some you can tell what the crosses are but others its hard. Phoenix have been grown for so long in FL in large numbers and hybridize so easily that many are hybrids crossed with hybrids.

I'll see if I have any other photos.

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Eric in Orlando

At the big FNATS landscape trade show, P. sylvestris x roebelenii

img_2600.jpg

in an Orlando yard, P. rupicola x ???

img_0602.jpg

P. dactylifera x ???, maybe sylvestris ?

5e67.jpg

???

100_0934.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

probably P. reclinata x canariensis

26ae.jpg

at Disney's Magic Kingdom, P. sylvestris x canariensis ???

3ee8.jpg

At Disney's Animal Kingdom, P. reclinata x canariensis

100_0570.jpg

at Universal's Islands of Adventure, a huge specimen of P. reclinata x canariensis

2380.jpg

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Eric in Orlando

One more that has been a mystery. I think this is P. pusilla x ???. This is growing in front of an office near my mom's house and has been this exact size for over 25 years.

cdfc.jpg

a previous hybrid I posted is growing nearby, you can see it in the background. I wonder what the seeds would grow into, 2 totally different hybrids hybridizing....

5e67.jpg

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Butiagrus

Hello,

this topics is very interesting!

The palm in this picture for me it's a (Phoenix roebelenii X sylvestris), have you got further informations about it (localisation)?

f5b9.jpg

And in this picture it's also very wonderful !

For me it's a (Phoenix rupicola X reclinata) are you agree with me?

img_0422.jpg

Thanks in advance for your answers!

JBG

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mjff

Max, your hybrid is an unexpected sight. I like the sulphur-yellow inflorescences. Where did they come from?! Both mother species have bright orange rachillae, don't they?

Carlo

Yes Carlo, it is a very nice and particular palm.

I can't say if inflorescences of acaulis is light yellow or orange as Canariensis , becuase I never saw a pure flowering acaulis before

Maybe this nice as you say" sulphur -yellow color , is only on hybrids!!??

The palm was crossed in Sicily. Do you know Sicily????????? :D :D

Best M@x

I have a Phoenix acaulis that flowered this year. If I recall correctly the flowers were a light yellow or cream color similar to Phoenix sylvestris which I had flowering nearby at the same time. Both are males, so no hybrids.

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Phoenikakias
a P. roebelenii x ???, its a P. roebelenii on steroids

d7bf.jpg

P. dactylifera x ???

b207.jpg

???

796f.jpg

f5b9.jpg

I have accidentally found this thread by searching and I dare say that the unknown parent of the hybrid on steroids may be P. loureiroi. Just a speculation based on the very long petioles as a portion of the entire blade.

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Phoenikakias

This is probably another hybrid with Phoenix reclinata in it (but what other else?). It had been obtained as a strap leaf seedling tagged P. reclinata (so I conclude that seed should have been collected from a reclinata) but it turned out not to be a genuine one. It does produce suckers prolifically but not so many like a reclinata and these suckers grow very slowly in comparison to main plant (not so by reclinata). Besides it flowers normally in March (while reclinata flowers in my place in July) and is overall robuster than a reclinata. At first glance I think it has also CIDP in the genes, but then doubts overwhelm me, because it has a glossy, deeply green color (CIDP here in full sun have a very slightly glaucous hue), more curly leaflets with more acute tips. Besides it is exactly as cold hardy as a reclinata (one would expect from a hybrid with CIDP's genes to be hardier than a reclinata) and slower in growth rate than a CIDP.

post-6141-0-55402700-1358107736_thumb.jppost-6141-0-05248800-1358107748_thumb.jppost-6141-0-70801900-1358107759_thumb.jppost-6141-0-79419000-1358107776_thumb.jp

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