Something that really bothers me

[kylecawazafla]

Thanks to the very generous donations from people on this message board and through the CFPACS, I have managed to create a very nice palm collection on the campus of my school, the University of Florida in Gainesville. When I planted the yard with a team of people from the Grounds Department, the person in charge was very encouraging, saying how he really supported people who go out of their way to bring their passion to the campus. Of course, he was not the first person I had to go through in order to plant these palms. I first had to write a proposal, get it approved by the Landscape Committee and then get permits in order to plant the palms from the school, the city, and the state. This whole process took almost a year. Anyways, the person in charge of the Grounds Department had left me on a very good note.

I walk past this garden almost every day and spend hours watering it with a watering can since there is no hose. I enjoy watching each palm's frond grow and eventually open. Some of these fronds take up to a year to open, so it's very rewarding to finally see a new leaf in the garden. I will post pictures of it when the growing season is over. For something I care so much about, especially since most of these palms were donations, I really want it to be living to its maximum potential. However, this is not the case. Almost every single month these palms are stripped of almost all their fronds, ran over by maintenance trucks or lawn mowers, and shredded by weed wackers. I have individually marked every palm with hot pink marking tape saying to not trim them or to mind them. When this method did not work, I surrounded each one with treated bamboo spikes and fenced them in with the marking tape. Nevertheless, each time the maintenance crew comes through, the vulnerable palms get demolished. Every time I see a new round of chaos, my heart sinks.

One of the most disheartening things of all though, is that I have called the head of the Ground's Department more than once after every surge of destruction. I have called him probably over 20 times within the last year and a half, leaving a polite message with my name and phone number, reminding him who I was and asking him if I could meet with the people in charge of maintaining this area so I could tell them to mind the palms. I was almost certain that the number I had for him was wrong, because over the last year and a half, and after all of the voice messages I left him, he never responded once. That changed a month ago, when he actually picked up the phone when I called. He politely agreed to meet with me one day so I could tell the grounds keepers where to watch out. He never arranged a meeting and a month later (this last week) I called him back. Of course he did not pick up, but I called a few times and eventually he did. Without ever providing a reason for responding to my messages, although he acknowledged that he got them, he stated that I was asking for too much. I then began to argue with his point and said that it did not take more than an hour of his time. I won't go through with the entire convo, but he basically was more than willing to personally eradicate the palms himself than to allow me to put up a mulch boundary around the palms, or to give them a more official protection barrier, or to meet with the the people who weed wack and mow the area in order to prevent them from being further damaged. I don't understand why people get this way when they aren't even willing to provide a reason for disagreeing with your ideas. The only reason I got was that "we just don't do that". He would let me mow and weed wack the area myself (even though I don't have a lawn mower or a weed wacker), but not let me meet with the people who are paid to do that as their job. He would not let me put a mulch or brick boundary around each palm, but was willing to throw each one out himself since they are causing him "too much hassle". I don't know where the hassle came from, honestly. We have only spoken on the phone for about 15 minutes total within the last year and a half, and he has done nothing for the palm garden since it was planted. He is now offering me to dig each one up and relocate them to a bed, which I am more than willing to do, but it just seems totally unnecessary since they are in a great sunny location and there roots are already established. Maybe I caught him on a bad day, but it seems totally contradictory to my initial impression of him. I got the permits to plant these palms where they are, he helped me plant them where they are, he saw the size they were when they were planted, and now he is telling me that the palms can't be there anymore? What is he thinking??? The palms look like cr@p now though, since they have been abused so much since they were planted, but it really hurts to think how good they could all be looking right now. I'm thankful that most of them are still alive, although I'm unsure for how much longer......

[Jeff Searle]

I'm sorry to hear about all the problems your having after all your hard work and efforts. But don't quit, because this is what the grounds keeper wants. He's hoping you'll just quietly go away.

SO, this is what I would do. I would go over his head and find who his boss is and set up a meeting to talk to him. Tell him that you have full backing from the campus and expect this moron to respect not only your hard work, but your feelings as well. Not to metion, how rude he has been. And that he and his crew that "mows", "blows" and "goes" need to do their damn job. And, if you don't get complete satisfaction from him, ask him who his supervisior is. Don't give up.

Jeff

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Sorry, Kyle that you are having "people problems" with maintenance now but remember these folks are not of the mindset that you are. There's little passion in their jobs for the most part. Remember too, that this is not the West Coast. Floridians aren't quite as polite or courteous; the heat has a lot to do with it but we are not like other Southern States either. We're transient and aren't so much linked to the past or the future here. Florida isn't really a passion for Floridians; it's just where we live. Gainesville is better than Ft. Lauderdale in that regard but we still do have a bit of surliness/lack of concern that is a time-honoured & treasured personality habit. It's like New Jersey here, but warmer (and our Turnpike is longer, but just as boring!). After a while one gets used to being treated without graciousness, and all is well. You just learn to "push back."

Just pour yourself another brew (if it's Sunday, a six-pack should do); turn up the music to max level on your stereo (or watch the Dolphins tomorrow night) and get small (as Geo. Carlin used to say.)

No sweat little buddy; no sweat!!

Pablo

[DoomsDave]

Kyle:

Sigh.

I can only tell you, it gets worse.

Pick up your own hose and water 'em. At least they're platned. That's only half the battle.

KEEP FIGHTING.

And, water the palms. You hold the key. The hell with them . . .

[FRITO]

Kyle, I am sorry to hear this.

I would have thought the bamboo stakes fortified around the palms would keep the palms safer.

I am trying to setup a palm garden at FSU and getting progress is slow, hopefully things comee together and they can have a future!

Maybe show up at the grounds director's office and demand some real answers, not returning your phone calls is BS!

[DoomsDave]

Kyle, brother, it's your palmetum now.

[Dypsisdean]

I'm with Jeff. Find out who his boss is, or somebody else even higher up where you may get a more sympathetic ear. Don't be argumentative or accusatory. Just explain you would like to see the palms thrive, and you are willing to assist, but you are having no success talking to this guy. Explain that it's probably not his fault, that he probably thinks you're a punk know it all kid, that you don't want to make waves, you just want to make the palms happy for the future generation to appreciate. A few letters to some of the bureaucrats, or the campus paper, may go a long way.

You can only hope you get someone who likes your attitude and wants to help. If not, you really haven't lost anything.

[John in Andalucia]

Kyle, Sorry to hear all this. Remember that the whole proposal went through a chain of command, so do as the others have said, and go higher with it. That's the only way he will respond, now that he's had his glory of seeing the project motioned by his superiors. You can't get involved emotionally, by telling him what the palms need. It's only his job to run a department. If anything, you might have got further by jumping in front of the maintenance crew with their strimmers, but I appreciate that's not always possible. Whoever you talk to next, treat it as a negligence issue, with a list the damaged palms, cost of replacements, and the detrimental effect that the maintenance workers are having on the future outcome of the palm garden. Then hopefully, they will listen.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

This is pretty outrageous behaviour, especially for a land grant University that is the main agriculture and horticulture institute in the state. I deal with the same problems in Deerfield, but it seems not to the extent you do where the guy is obviously and intentionally hard to work with. Part of the problem is laziness. The big mowers that they use just like to cut large swaths of grass and they hate to have to mow out of their straight lines. Part of the problem is with untrained and or uncaring labor who keep shifting from one maintenance job on campus to another. This supervisor is also too lazy to get out to make sure his men are doing their jobs right.

Go over his head to his boss as suggested. Write letters to the editor. Put complaints in writing with copies of your agreements and permits. Get hold of the Horticulture Research Dept to come to your aid. See if you can get some highly respected people from this board to write support letters (Zona, Dransfield et al). Keep at it as your contribution will be there to be appreciated for decades or more.

Good luck and good work

Jerry

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Maybe start a new thread in the palm forum asking for letters or emails to be sent to influential, decision making people at the UF. Keeping it all very courteous, of course.

[Moose]

Kyle - if you continue getting the run around get the e-mail address of Physical Plant's Director and post it here. We can let him know what our forum members think of the inept actions of the maintenance crews.

[Moose]

Maybe start a new thread in the palm forum asking for letters or emails to be sent to influential, decision making people at the UF. Keeping it all very courteous, of course.

With all the IPS members who are from Florida and Tax payers - some "noise" should get noticed.

[Kim]

Kyle, I am sorry to hear you so discouraged. The first thing I thought when I read your message is exactly what Jeff, Dean, and Jerry said -- find out who his supervisor is, make contact, and very factually explain the response -- or rather lack of response, and lack of cooperation you have suffered. If you have a record of when the calls were made, the number of messages left, photos, any factual documentation to support your complaint will help. Small minds take great joy in wielding the little power they have to say 'no'. Don't let it stop you. If we can help with a letter writing campaign, count me in. It's so unfortunate that they are unable to appreciate your efforts, which could result in a signature legacy palm garden for the campus. People can be so short sighted, it's amazing.

[tank]

Kyle,

Try and talk to Kent Perkins to see if he knows who is the best person to talk to. Also folks from the Hort department may help as well. You are not going to win with physical plant, so you definitely need to go over this guys head.

I road my bike by on Saturday and you were right, that caryota is really taking off.

Jason

[jayfro6]

I hate you're having problems with the plantings. I am one of the many who truly appreciate and admire your efforts to get the palms planted. I went by and saw them during Spring Break, complete with all the flagging like you described. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself. If the guy wasn't just intentionally trying to be closed-minded, you would think the idea of just mulching the whole thing and taking it off the list of places to mow and trim would appeal to him. I think it would be less of a headache to just get a trimmer and do it yourself until the palms get big enough, as long as Mr. Mowitall is okay with you doing it.

[Kathryn]

Start a petition and get signatures then send it to the school news paper.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

"I love not man the less, but Nature more. " - Lord Byron

[Walter John]

"Forget it, move on, you gave, they took, forget it, move on" - Lord Wal

[bubba]

Kyle, Do not give up! I have seen your Palm garden in that great McCarty micoclimate. It is really outstanding. Perhaps a group of us could make contact on your behalf with the appropriate parties to discuss just how important the Garden is to IPS members and this Board. Your hard work should not be taken for granted by stupid bureacracy.

[Jeff Searle]

"Forget it, move on, you gave, they took, forget it, move on" - Lord Wal

Come on Wal Nut,

Forget it, move on ? Not so fast junior.......

Kyle has put alot of good efforts and hard work into this project to "move on". I think there's a few people here that do care.

[_Keith]

"Forget it, move on, you gave, they took, forget it, move on" - Lord Wal

Come on Wal Nut,

Forget it, move on ? Not so fast junior.......

Kyle has put alot of good efforts and hard work into this project to "move on". I think there's a few people here that do care.

I may be more along Wal's line. Kyle, you had a good dream, but you started it, then left it for others to care for. It wasn't their dream. They had nothing invested, nor was it their dream. Either prepare yourself for the year long, multi-year effort to bring it to fruition, by your own efforts, or move on hoping a few will survive. Don't consider this harsh, just reality.

BTW - I learned this the hard way, just like you are learning.

[John in Andalucia]

"Forget it, move on, you gave, they took, forget it, move on" - Lord Wal

Come on Wal Nut,

Forget it, move on ? Not so fast junior.......

Kyle has put a lot of good efforts and hard work into this project to "move on". I think there's a few people here that do care.

I may be more along Wal's line. Kyle, you had a good dream, but you started it, then left it for others to care for. It wasn't their dream. They had nothing invested, nor was it their dream. Either prepare yourself for the year long, multi-year effort to bring it to fruition, by your own efforts, or move on hoping a few will survive. Don't consider this harsh, just reality.

BTW - I learned this the hard way, just like you are learning.

I don't think Kyle wants to feel as though the authorities were letting him have, "a wish come true". I'm assuming it was a serious proposition? If not, then even more reason for a signed petition from the IPS including all those who donated palms, and a little bit of coverage on the evening news. The press will jump at it, because it involves a time frame.

[kylecawazafla]

Thank you for all of the responses. I still haven't gotten a response to the email I sent him yet confirming when to meet, which shouldn't be a surprise given it took me over a year to get in touch with him in the first place. I'll try calling again if I don't hear from him by tomorrow, since that was when we had originally planned to me. If I don't hear anything at all then I can look for someone above him in charge, since I think it would be totally ridiculous to let these palms die due to a single individual being very lazy, stubborn, or someone with a proclivity towards monocot hate crimes. I really cannot grasp his excuse of being too busy, since I am asking for something so simple that, as far as I know, wouldn't even take an hour of his time. Maybe people just like to say "no" or people like to extinguish other people's lights of enthusiasm. He did give me the option to move the palm trees to a bed, but as I said before, but they might not get the same amount of space or sunshine in a bed and I don't want to disturb their roots. This option still seems totally obsolete compared to putting a bed around the palms anyways, which would leave them with plenty of room to grow, plenty of sunlight, and zero root disturbance. I also placed them in their locations so they would look good when they were larger. I was considering contacting the school newspaper about the palm garden regarding the issue, but honestly, the palm trees look so pathetic right now for the most part that no one would care at all. Had these been Sabal uresana or causiarum getting damaged just before forming a trunk, then it would be something worth mentioning to a paper, since these palms are a huge spectacle, but they first have to get to that point. Instead, these palms are just two leaves poking vertically out of the ground. Even earlier this summer they looked nicer for a few weeks. It would be hard to get sympathy from people who don't know what the palms' potentials are.

[kylecawazafla]

I'll post updates on here and eventually post photos. Maybe the palms will put out a frond or two before it becomes "truly" winter here.

[palmazon]

I learned through Ralph (Velez) most municipality-type plantings won't accept anything smaller than a 15 gallon (whatever that means) for the very reason you've outlined - namely, greater viability (in larger specimens). You could make this bureaucrat's office information public here or link him to the palmtalk hacker, but proceed methodically and reasonably if you want to develop your palmetum. Ken Burns' series on our national parks provides a convenient testimonial on how easy it is to navigate bureaucracies. You're the final arbiter on whether or not it's worthwhile; getting the permits and planting everything was the easy part - welcome to life.

[Walter John]

Name calling Jeff, you've risen up a notch.

Dear Kyle, I repeat what I said plus an add-on suggestion, which I'll send via PM.

[palmazon]

Wal you're at it, what say you mount a placard commemorating your palmetum? Call it the Wally Donovan Memorial Palmetum - has a nice ring to it, actually. Seriously, though - consider this part of your education; making babies is easy - once they've hatched, the party's over

[Walter John]

no comment,

oh bugger, too late.

[Trópico]

Kyle, can you document your whole ordeal, with pictures, and make it into a good article; have it published in the school paper or the local news... maybe and only maybe then they will listen and rectify.

[Alicehunter2000]

Kyle, hate to hear what's going on down there....especially after jumping through all the hoops to get them planted to begin with. If there is one thing I have learned about situations like this it is DOCUMENT. Put everything in writing, note times, and contacts of people who you have talked to. You will have to go over this guys head. Don't even bother with his BS. Do as others have suggested and bring tons of paperwork. College egg-headed beaurocrats love documentation. Take pictures showing damage and be prepared to go up the chain of command. Keep it cordial....remember, sugar attracts more flies than lemon. Let us know if we can do anything.

[SunnyFl]

Kyle, I am so sorry to hear the disrespect that they have shown to your work. Really, it is very bad - you're not asking much, especially in light of everything you've contributed. These people sound like total boneheads. Jeff has the right idea: keep going to higher-ups.

Unless someone beat me to it, I would just add this: Contact your representative (and I use the term loosely) in the State Legislature. I doubt that the poobahs in charge will relish getting a displeased phone call from a Legislator (they do have power over university issues).

Palmdoctor wrote:

Floridians aren't quite as polite or courteous; the heat has a lot to do with it but we are not like other Southern States either. We're transient and aren't so much linked to the past or the future here. Florida isn't really a passion for Floridians; it's just where we live.

While I do agree that this is the case, I just hafta say that I don't understand WHY! Maybe b/c I'm a Florida-obsessive and completely batsh__ about living here. And every day, I deal with people who are negative, nasty, rude etc - we're living in paradise and why the hell don't they appreciate what they have?!

And that goes back to the University - you have created something of real beauty, real value for them - and they can't do the least little thing to take care of it in return.

[_Keith]

Kyle, I am so sorry to hear the disrespect that they have shown to your work. Really, it is very bad - you're not asking much, especially in light of everything you've contributed. These people sound like total boneheads. Jeff has the right idea: keep going to higher-ups.

Unless someone beat me to it, I would just add this: Contact your representative (and I use the term loosely) in the State Legislature. I doubt that the poobahs in charge will relish getting a displeased phone call from a Legislator (they do have power over university issues).

Palmdoctor wrote:

Floridians aren't quite as polite or courteous; the heat has a lot to do with it but we are not like other Southern States either. We're transient and aren't so much linked to the past or the future here. Florida isn't really a passion for Floridians; it's just where we live.

While I do agree that this is the case, I just hafta say that I don't understand WHY! Maybe b/c I'm a Florida-obsessive and completely batsh__ about living here. And every day, I deal with people who are negative, nasty, rude etc - we're living in paradise and why the hell don't they appreciate what they have?!

And that goes back to the University - you have created something of real beauty, real value for them - and they can't do the least little thing to take care of it in return.

I think it is because when they moved down there, they packed up the crappy attitude from wherever they came from and brought it with them.

[gyuseppe]

kyle friend even though we are far away, our heart and with you.

in Florida there are many members of the IPS, one influential member of the IPS,Which has an important role in society of florida speak with manager the University?

[Moose]

no comment,

oh bugger, too late.

Are we permitted to say "bugger" on this forum? * *

[peachy]

Kyle, I am so sorry to hear the disrespect that they have shown to your work. Really, it is very bad - you're not asking much, especially in light of everything you've contributed. These people sound like total boneheads. Jeff has the right idea: keep going to higher-ups.

Unless someone beat me to it, I would just add this: Contact your representative (and I use the term loosely) in the State Legislature. I doubt that the poobahs in charge will relish getting a displeased phone call from a Legislator (they do have power over university issues).

Palmdoctor wrote:

Floridians aren't quite as polite or courteous; the heat has a lot to do with it but we are not like other Southern States either. We're transient and aren't so much linked to the past or the future here. Florida isn't really a passion for Floridians; it's just where we live.

While I do agree that this is the case, I just hafta say that I don't understand WHY! Maybe b/c I'm a Florida-obsessive and completely batsh__ about living here. And every day, I deal with people who are negative, nasty, rude etc - we're living in paradise and why the hell don't they appreciate what they have?!

And that goes back to the University - you have created something of real beauty, real value for them - and they can't do the least little thing to take care of it in return.

Florida is sounding rather like Queensland, the more I read about it. Once you leave the inner city area or the tourist traps on the coast, the place becomes pig central. I had a problem with council workers who decided to "trim" a big callistemon that I had spent years nurturing for frost proctection of the front garden. I was livid at the time. I rang the local council member who promised the world and did bugger all. Like Kyle I could never get hold of anyone higher up, so I played dirty, rang the local rag, got a reporter out here, and milked it for all it was worth. Okay my tree is still ruined for the next 10 years or so, but I doubt they will start chopping at anything else on my boundaries. Kyle go to the top and forget the idiots along the track. If all else fails, call the local TV station, they will pounce on anything like that if its a slow news day.

Peachy

[Kim]

Hey Kyle, send me the guy's name and phone number, I'll call him myself.

[DoomsDave]

Kyle:

I'll say it again:

It's your palmetum, so take charge. Which always sounds easier than it is. You are now The Man.

Persist . . . . keep at them, politely.

Enlist . . . . accept the help that local Board members are offering. The more chihuahuas that bark, the more the big doofy-dogs will pay attention, if only to get some blessed silence. (Yes, sometimes it really and truly comes down to that. )

Remember that the custodians are often wage-slaves who wanna yabba-dabba-doo home at the end of the day, or before.

And, keep us apprized of what's going on.

Your situation is nothing new. Every public or semi-public palm-or-other-plant-etum has the same problem of apathetic custodians. This problem occurs in UCLA's garden, at the University of California, Riverside, and the Los Angeles County system, too.

Keep watching, and keep nudging.

[sur4z]

Kyle- Just dig those guys up and plant them at LSU!!

[DoomsDave]

Wal you're at it, what say you mount a placard commemorating your palmetum? Call it the Wally Donovan Memorial Palmetum - has a nice ring to it, actually. Seriously, though - consider this part of your education; making babies is easy - once they've hatched, the party's over

WOW! A workable suggestion!

Way to go, Palmazon!

[kylecawazafla]

I have a meeting on Monday morning with them at 9 AM! They are persistent on relocating the palms though That will probably prove fatal for most of them.