CAROLINA PALMS

[BobbyinNY]

(3) trachies in Habitat in Charlotte at Sean's house

[BobbyinNY]

a really nice trachie

[BobbyinNY]

CIDP in Isle-of-palms, SC

[BobbyinNY]

Sable in Downtown Charleston,SC

[BobbyinNY]

pic in front of the hotel in Folly Beach,SC

[BobbyinNY]

Pic of the town of Folly Beach,SC

[BobbyinNY]

Backyard - downtown Charleston

[BobbyinNY]

Myrtle Beach, SC

[SubTropicRay]

Very nice.  Has the wife bought in to moving there?

Ray

[BobbyinNY]

Very nice.  Has the wife bought in to moving there?

Ray

Yeah, she loves it there.. we had a great time... We're gonna go back and spend more time there.... I also want to show her St. Augustine which is really beautiful as well.

[Kris]

Dear Bobby,  

nice pictures and nice locations,do you and others in this forum have beautiful pic of canary island date palms_I LOVE THEM period.

thank you.

Love,

Kris (s.india)

[Kathy]

So good to see the pics and hear you and your wife loved it.  So the future is finally looking palmier!

Folly Beach looks really cute.  Where is that in relation to the bigger cities?  

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Aug. 01 2006,09:53)

QUOTE

Backyard - downtown Charleston

I didn't realize Washy was hardy to Charleston.  How many washy's did you see, Bobby (picture # 7).

[Zac in NC]

Jim- There are even Washies up into NC along the coast which have been there for years.  Just FYI.

Zac

[BobbyinNY]

So good to see the pics and hear you and your wife loved it.  So the future is finally looking palmier!

Folly Beach looks really cute.  Where is that in relation to the bigger cities?  

Hi Kathy........

Folly Beach is a suburb of Charleston (about 1 1/2 hours south of Myrtle Beach, an hour from Columbia, and about 100 miles North of Savannah,GA).. It's amazingly Palmy there and when speaking to the locals, they said it's RARE that the night temps drop below 50f... I kinda find that a little hard to believe because that's more like Central FL temps, but who knows... I did see alot of tropical stuff there.

I didn't realize Washy was hardy to Charleston.  How many washy's did you see, Bobby (picture # 7

Jim,

I couldn't believe it... They were a few of them... Not alot, but they were in different places which leads me to believe they would grow all over... I'm thinking queens & Roebs would grow too.... Charleston is like in its own little climate because Throughout the entire trip, I hardly saw any palms at all until about 20 miles from Charleston - then when I got there they were all over the place.

[Dave-Vero]

St Augustine is transforming from a town at the edge of the piney woods to an affluent burb of Jacksonville.  Which is hard on the historic town--old buildings keep getting demolished.

Both St Auggie and Ormond Beach have nice residential areas, and Ormondites can grow Everglades palms (Acoelorraphe)

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Aug. 01 2006,13:56)

QUOTE

So good to see the pics and hear you and your wife loved it.  So the future is finally looking palmier!

Folly Beach looks really cute.  Where is that in relation to the bigger cities?  

Hi Kathy........

Folly Beach is a suburb of Charleston (about 1 1/2 hours south of Myrtle Beach, an hour from Columbia, and about 100 miles North of Savannah,GA).. It's amazingly Palmy there and when speaking to the locals, they said it's RARE that the night temps drop below 50f... I kinda find that a little hard to believe because that's more like Central FL temps, but who knows... I did see alot of tropical stuff there.

I didn't realize Washy was hardy to Charleston.  How many washy's did you see, Bobby (picture # 7

Jim,

I couldn't believe it... They were a few of them... Not alot, but they were in different places which leads me to believe they would grow all over... I'm thinking queens & Roebs would grow too.... Charleston is like in its own little climate because Throughout the entire trip, I hardly saw any palms at all until about 20 miles from Charleston - then when I got there they were all over the place.

Washy Robusta, IMO, aren't permanent in coastal Carolina, although they probably will make in many years before a freeze gets them.  Sabals are permanent because they are native to coastal N. and S. Carolina.  Sabals are hardier than Washy's - at least Washy Robusta and Hybrids.  Filifera is probably about as hardy as Sabal Palmetto.

[Zac in NC]

I believe there are Washingtonia filifera which survived the 80s in Wrightsville Beach NC. I will try to get the full scoop on them and let you know. The Coast of NC is a z8 mostly.

Zac

[chris78]

Real nice pictures, Bobby.....glad you enjoyed your trip..... It reminded me of my trip to the Carolina's and seeing my first palms....when I then lived in NY/NJ area.

[BobbyinNY]

Washy Robusta, IMO, aren't permanent in coastal Carolina, although they probably will make in many years before a freeze gets them.  Sabals are permanent because they are native to coastal N. and S. Carolina.  Sabals are hardier than Washy's - at least Washy Robusta and Hybrids.  Filifera is probably about as hardy as Sabal Palmetto.

I think Charleston might be in a very special microclimate.... That tall washie in the pic looked pretty permanant to me at that size... Note that Charleston was the ONLY place I saw them and CIDPs too... Every other area were just sabals, sabals, & more sabals..

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Aug. 02 2006,08:50)

QUOTE

Washy Robusta, IMO, aren't permanent in coastal Carolina, although they probably will make in many years before a freeze gets them.  Sabals are permanent because they are native to coastal N. and S. Carolina.  Sabals are hardier than Washy's - at least Washy Robusta and Hybrids.  Filifera is probably about as hardy as Sabal Palmetto.

I think Charleston might be in a very special microclimate.... That tall washie in the pic looked pretty permanant to me at that size... Note that Charleston was the ONLY place I saw them and CIDPs too... Every other area were just sabals, sabals, & more sabals..

Well, Charleston definitely has about the best microclimate of SC.  But, I seem to remember somone posting that some Washy's died in Jacksonville FL in the great 80s freezes.  If they died in Jax, did they make it in Charleston??  I think they are probably mostly hardy, maybe 90-95% hardy, with the exception of the REAL big freezes.  They could get very large in the mean time though.

Same with Robusta in my area.  I've heard many died in 83/89, but other than that they are hardy, IMO.  I see hundreds if not thousands of mature robusta and hybrids around here.  Not as tall as the valley or so cal, but 30-40 footers easily.  They can't all have been planted after 89.  Many are obviously much older than that, unless they grew to 35-40' in 17 years.

[Zac in NC]

Paging Richard Travis. He was into palms in the 80s freezes in SA, he has shown me which ones in SA made it through the winters before, while I was on the trips out there.

Zac

[NBTX11]

(Zac in NC @ Aug. 02 2006,12:32)

QUOTE

Paging Richard Travis. He was into palms in the 80s freezes in SA, he has shown me which ones in SA made it through the winters before, while I was on the trips out there.

Zac

Yeah, that's where I am hearing many/most died in 89.  Although there must have been some survivors because there are many around that are OBVIOUSLY much older than that.  Or are those mainly hybrid robustas with mostly robusta characterisics (robusta look alikes).

[BobbyinNY]

Yeah, that's where I am hearing many/most died in 89.  Although there must have been some survivors because there are many around that are OBVIOUSLY much older than that.  Or are those mainly hybrid robustas with mostly robusta characterisics (robusta look alikes).

Or maybe they were just hardier than the others.. Maybe a few degrees in a microclimate or were more Well-rooted... But, Hey... If they're 90% hardy, they're definitely worth a shot... Heck, if I move down there, I'll try queens too. If washies can make it, then possibly queens can.

[BobbyinNY]

The weather stats for Charleston are interesting... The avg JAN low is 42f (same as JAX), but the RECORD low for Charleston is 10f, and JAX is 7f

[NBTX11]

That leads me to believe you could try quite a few things there.  Most winters it doesn't come any where near the record lows.  On the 2004 Arbor day map, it shows zone 9 hugging the SC and GA coasts, but if you go slightly inland it's zone 8.

 http://www.arborday.org/media/zones.cfm

[BobbyinNY]

That leads me to believe you could try quite a few things there.  Most winters it doesn't come any where near the record lows.  On the 2004 Arbor day map, it shows zone 9 hugging the SC and GA coasts, but if you go slightly inland it's zone 8.

You're So right, Jim... That's why I ruled out Charlotte - the difference is staggering... Inland NC isn't much different than here on LI, but when you get to the coast it's a whole different story....   My wife yelled at me and said: "it isn't JUST about growing palm trees... we have to live there too.." I said... "really?"... lol...

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Aug. 02 2006,13:45)

QUOTE

The weather stats for Charleston are interesting... The avg JAN low is 42f (same as JAX), but the RECORD low for Charleston is 10f, and JAX is 7f

Yeah, but Jax avg Jan high is in the mid 60s, where charleston is only upper 50s.  But, still, it is pretty close.

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Aug. 02 2006,14:19)

QUOTE

That leads me to believe you could try quite a few things there.  Most winters it doesn't come any where near the record lows.  On the 2004 Arbor day map, it shows zone 9 hugging the SC and GA coasts, but if you go slightly inland it's zone 8.

You're So right, Jim... That's why I ruled out Charlotte - the difference is staggering... Inland NC isn't much different than here on LI, but when you get to the coast it's a whole different story....   My wife yelled at me and said: "it isn't JUST about growing palm trees... we have to live there too.." I said... "really?"... lol...

Why do you think I moved from North Texas to San Antonio.  To move further south, because a) I hate cold. and so I could grow palms.

[Walt]

Bobby: My second duty station when I was in the Navy was Charleston, S.C. (I was there from Nov. '68 to June '70). The only area where I ever saw any washingtonias was down on the Battery. At the time I didn't know anything about washingtonias (only Sabal palmettos and a few other species). I was very suprised to find a fairly tall W. robusta with long peticoat growing at a historic home about one block from the water. Along the Battery some homes had W. robustas in their front yards. These were old because they had the skinny trunks with no boots on them. Also, one residence had a very large Canary Island date palm.

At the time I didn't know the names of these palms and it was only since I moved to Florida nine years ago that I realized what species of palms these were.

Other than the Battery area, the only palms I recall seeing in Charleston were sabals, saw palmettos, and pindo palms.

And Isle of Palms was a joke IMO. I was expecting to find a lush paradise there (based on the name) but it wasn't much more than older homes and sandly lots with a Sabal palmetto here and there.

[BobbyinNY]

And Isle of Palms was a joke IMO. I was expecting to find a lush paradise there (based on the name) but it wasn't much more than older homes and sandly lots with a Sabal palmetto here and there.

Maybe that was back then, Walt..... IOP now is very lush... CIDPs, Washies, sabals, and lots of foliage all over the place. And alot of new homes too... I was looking at homes there and the Cheapest one I saw was a little shack 3 blocks from the beach for 1.5mil.

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Aug. 03 2006,08:51)

QUOTE

And Isle of Palms was a joke IMO. I was expecting to find a lush paradise there (based on the name) but it wasn't much more than older homes and sandly lots with a Sabal palmetto here and there.

Maybe that was back then, Walt..... IOP now is very lush... CIDPs, Washies, sabals, and lots of foliage all over the place. And alot of new homes too... I was looking at homes there and the Cheapest one I saw was a little shack 3 blocks from the beach for 1.5mil.

Global warming may have added half a zone in the last 35-40 years, which is a good thing for palm growing.

[Walt]

Bobby: I don't doubt for a minute that things changed drastically since that time -- just about like every other place -- prices have gone sky high. And no doubt there's far more ornamental species of palms there now, too.

It was on the Charleston navy base that I saw my first Butia capitata palms. They had some old ones with lots of trunk just inside the main gate of Reynold's Ave. (this was a big bar strip at the time). I recall thinking how those palms looked "too tropical" to be growing there. Little did I know at the time they were about the most cold hardy of the feather leafed palms. Then, when I drove up to Wilmington, NC., and saw them growing there, I was really surprised.

[BobbyinNY]

Bobby: I don't doubt for a minute that things changed drastically since that time -- just about like every other place -- prices have gone sky high. And no doubt there's far more ornamental species of palms there now, too.

It was on the Charleston navy base that I saw my first Butia capitata palms. They had some old ones with lots of trunk just inside the main gate of Reynold's Ave. (this was a big bar strip at the time). I recall thinking how those palms looked "too tropical" to be growing there. Little did I know at the time they were about the most cold hardy of the feather leafed palms. Then, when I drove up to Wilmington, NC., and saw them growing there, I was really surprised

I just need a place to live where I can plant my collection...lol..... I have WAYYYYYY too many palms now and my queen palm is now 22ft tall...

[Ray]

BobbyinNY Wrote:

Or maybe they were just hardier than the others.. Maybe a few degrees in a microclimate or were more Well-rooted... But, Hey... If they're 90% hardy, they're definitely worth a shot... Heck, if I move down there, I'll try queens too. If washies can make it, then possibly queens can.

One thing I can tell you, Washies are a good bit hardier than Queens and they are not all that uncommon in coastal South Carolina, and even up into southern, coastal North Carolina.  They do get defoliated in some unusually cold winters, but with Robusta, this is not a problem, many people grow them as annuals even in interior sections of the Southeast.

I could post you a picture of a long-term (if 15 years can be said to be long-term) of a W. robusta in Birmingham, Alabama that has not received cold damage in that length of time.  Having said all that, I do believe that W. robusta is at least an 8b palm, at least if you want to keep it looking nice all year round.

Queens, on the other hand are a different story, you won't see many, if any, very long term Queens in the Carolinas.  I do know of one person in Emerald Isle, North Carolina that is growing one quite successfully, but he has protected it a time or two in certain winters.  There are also, now, several Queens being used in the landscape here in Panama City Beach, but we have had 9a or better winters now for quite sometime.  I have a couple at my place here that are doing quite well, and for the exception of hurricane damage, have not had any problems for the last 5 years or more.  I have a Silver variety, given to me by Walt, in Lake Placid, but we have not had cold enough winters since he has given it to me for a comparision concerning cold-hardiness, to the standard variety.

Queens will burn slightly at temperatures below freezing (with frost), and will burn quite badly at temperatures at or below 25 to 28 degrees.  Of course, as with most palms, this can vary widely depending upon the duration of the cold and the location in which they are planted.  While they will not be killed outright at these temperatures, and quite unlike Robusta, they do not recover quickly and can look very unsightly for a long time.  The quick recovery time of Robusta makes it a much better option under these circumstances.

[NBTX11]

(Ray @ Aug. 04 2006,14:19)

QUOTE

Queens will burn slightly at temperatures below freezing (with frost), and will burn quite badly at temperatures at or below 25 to 28 degrees.  

I have a queen that showed absolutely no damage, burning or spotting at 23 or 24F last winter.  On the other hand this was a quick radiation freeze and it warmed up quickly once ths sun came up, so length of freeze may be a factor too.

[tropical1]

BobbyinNY-

If you are going to move, why not all the way to Central or South Florida. I dont think you will be able to satisfy your palm fix in Carolina.

[NBTX11]

(tropical1 @ Aug. 04 2006,19:11)

QUOTE

BobbyinNY-

If you are going to move, why not all the way to Central or South Florida. I dont think you will be able to satisfy your palm fix in Carolina.

You could move to South Texas.  The cost of living in TX is way, and I mean WAAAYYY cheaper than Florida.  Deep south Texas is equivalent to Central FL palmwise.  Other areas of TX are equivalent to Northern areas of Florida

[BobbyinNY]

You could move to South Texas.  The cost of living in TX is way, and I mean WAAAYYY cheaper than Florida.  Deep south Texas is equivalent to Central FL palmwise.  Other areas of TX are equivalent to Northern areas of Florida

If it was ONLY up to me, it would be a totally different story..... I would move back to the Miami area where I lived for almost 6 years - hands down.. that's my favorite place - It reminds me of Long Island with Palm trees - due to the amount of New Yorkers that have moved there and just the feel of the place..    I would also love to check out Texas... I've heard it's really nice there - but my wife wouldn't hear of it.. she's under the impression that there are a bunch of people running around with guns shooting like the wild west..lol.

[cfkingfish]

Charleston does have a textbook microclimate (between two rivers, on a peninsula, urbanized and adjacent to the ocean). I grew up in Virginia, and trips to Charleston were almost yearly. There are a lot of barrier islands that are part of the lowcountry between Charleston and Savannah that have this  practical zone 9 microclimate. Beaufort, Hilton Head Island, Kiawah, Sullivan's Island, etc. are places where water encircles a land mass, keeping soil and air temps up from just 20 miles inland. It is incredibly beautiful, and land prices are still fairly inexpensive.