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Caryota_gigas

Frost experiments from down under

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Bennz
So where is global warming again...???

On holiday in Fiji mate, where we should be too.

Has been the coldest winter I can remember here too. But -2C? I doubt it will happen in Auckland.

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Jonathan

Michael,

Weather Underground says 1° overnight in Auckland with a 3° windchill - is that where you get the -2° from?

Hopefully it wont be as bad as you think....also looks to be warming up a bit later in the week for you.

Good luck,

Jonathan

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Caryota_gigas

Metservice, the national weather forecaster is where I got the -2°C from

Thankfully it has been upgraded to 2°. Maybe some put a - in by mistake... or perhaps they just wanted me to spend all day making my property frost proof.

So I will do an experiment tonight along the lines of the one I did last night.

I will find the pic of the plants involved and list species shortly.

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nomolos
Metservice, the national weather forecaster is where I got the -2°C from

Thankfully it has been upgraded to 2°. Maybe some put a - in by mistake... or perhaps they just wanted me to spend all day making my property frost proof.

So I will do an experiment tonight along the lines of the one I did last night.

I will find the pic of the plants involved and list species shortly.

You need those outdoor mexican fireplaces set up outside and to stay up all night to ensure a supply of fresh wood :mrlooney: but if it's 2 not -2 that's not too bad - Good luck anyway

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Caryota_gigas

So the plants I put out over the last 2 nights are;

Aiphanes horrida (3 frosts for this plant)

Areca triandra (2 frosts for this plant)

Beccariophoenix alfredii (5 or 6 frosts for this plant)

Chambeyronia macrocarpa (2 frosts for this plant)

Dypsis ambositrae (2 frosts for this plant)

Dypsis decipiens (2 frosts for this plant)

Howea belmoreana (2 frosts for this plant)

The last 2 frosts have been very mild, not much below freezing... good for the plants... not so good for the science.

At least we didnt get the awful low they were predicting all day yesterday.

All these plants look fine at this stage.

I have been plesently surprised at the hardiness of A. horrida, and A. triandra... I didnt think these would stand a chance.

post-636-1248725607_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas
You need those outdoor mexican fireplaces set up outside and to stay up all night to ensure a supply of fresh wood :mrlooney: but if it's 2 not -2 that's not too bad - Good luck anyway

I have thought about having burning 44 Gal. drums around the property.

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nomolos
You need those outdoor mexican fireplaces set up outside and to stay up all night to ensure a supply of fresh wood :mrlooney: but if it's 2 not -2 that's not too bad - Good luck anyway

I have thought about having burning 44 Gal. drums around the property.

We'll were not known as palm nuts for nothing :mrlooney:

Has anyone actually done this, I have thought about it too .... they're coming to take me away ha ha he he.....

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peachy
You need those outdoor mexican fireplaces set up outside and to stay up all night to ensure a supply of fresh wood :mrlooney: but if it's 2 not -2 that's not too bad - Good luck anyway

I have thought about having burning 44 Gal. drums around the property.

We'll were not known as palm nuts for nothing :mrlooney:

Has anyone actually done this, I have thought about it too .... they're coming to take me away ha ha he he.....

mea culpa

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peachy
So the plants I put out over the last 2 nights are;

Aiphanes horrida (3 frosts for this plant)

Areca triandra (2 frosts for this plant)

Beccariophoenix alfredii (5 or 6 frosts for this plant)

Chambeyronia macrocarpa (2 frosts for this plant)

Dypsis ambositrae (2 frosts for this plant)

Dypsis decipiens (2 frosts for this plant)

Howea belmoreana (2 frosts for this plant)

The last 2 frosts have been very mild, not much below freezing... good for the plants... not so good for the science.

At least we didnt get the awful low they were predicting all day yesterday.

All these plants look fine at this stage.

I have been plesently surprised at the hardiness of A. horrida, and A. triandra... I didnt think these would stand a chance.

post-636-1248725607_thumb.jpg

I have been living with waist high Chambeyronias in pots because I was worried they would frost, looks like they will be going in the ground this spring. Likewise the Aiphanes and D. ambositrae. I planted the Becarriophoenix last weekend, armed with my new found knowledge from Aotaoroa

Peachy

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peachy
So the plants I put out over the last 2 nights are;

Aiphanes horrida (3 frosts for this plant)

Areca triandra (2 frosts for this plant)

Beccariophoenix alfredii (5 or 6 frosts for this plant)

Chambeyronia macrocarpa (2 frosts for this plant)

Dypsis ambositrae (2 frosts for this plant)

Dypsis decipiens (2 frosts for this plant)

Howea belmoreana (2 frosts for this plant)

The last 2 frosts have been very mild, not much below freezing... good for the plants... not so good for the science.

At least we didnt get the awful low they were predicting all day yesterday.

All these plants look fine at this stage.

I have been plesently surprised at the hardiness of A. horrida, and A. triandra... I didnt think these would stand a chance.

post-636-1248725607_thumb.jpg

I have been living with waist high Chambeyronias in pots because I was worried they would frost, looks like they will be going in the ground this spring. Likewise the Aiphanes and D. ambositrae. I planted the Becarriophoenix last weekend, armed with my new found knowledge from Aotaoroa

Peachy

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Jonathan

Great results Michael - best thread ever!

Cheers,

Jonathan

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kelen

My Caryota mitis desfoliated all winter. This winter was very well until july 20, but now 10 hard frost occured here in south o Brazil.

post-2078-1249165992_thumb.jpg

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kelen

Diferences in Pseudobombax grandiflorum between 5 days.

post-2078-1249166170_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

It certainly has been a very cold Southern hemispere Winter. May, June and July have been amongst the coldest ever here in Auckland.

I will do a summary shortly on how my palms in-ground and my frost experiments on seedlings have gone, and what they look like now...

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Jonathan
It certainly has been a very cold Southern hemispere Winter. May, June and July have been amongst the coldest ever here in Auckland.

But not here.

This time last year we'd had nearly 20 frosts, this year 4 or 5 at the most, but its been wet, wet, wet!

Cheers,

Jonathan

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peachy

First touch of frost friday morning. Nothing burnt, just a bit of bronzing on the allamandas mainly. The nights havent been as cold as most years either, but the daytime temps have been down a bit and quite a lot of young seedlings have died or are about to. It's been my worst year ever as far as losses go. Bring some of your rain with you Jon, I am handwatering for at least 1 to 2 hours every day now and I really do have better ways to spend my time. :angry:

Peachy

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AJQ

Great thread, Any updates on your experiments Michael ?

I'm particularly interested in Beccariophoenix alfredii, as I have one and I'm following your results with interest.

Regards Andy.

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Caryota_gigas

Sorry, I have been meaning to post an update on all the above experiments but havent had the time... I will still do it... soon I hope.

B. alfredii - I have put one particular seedling through 6 frosts now of varying intensity (as well as a couple of othe plants through a few)... and no damage to report... these are tough little plants! This is the 2nd year some of these plants have been subjected to this abuse and come through fine - no loses, or even permanent marking. Soon to be tough big plants I hope. You will also be happy to hear that the Southern population of B. madagascariensis have also come through unscathed.

More updates soon...

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Caryota_gigas

Well its been a couple of weeks and I think (fingers crossed) that the frosts are at an end. So its time for a bit of a round up... bear with me... this may take quite a few posts...

I live in West Auckland, New Zealand. On average we get around 5 frosts a year ranging down to around -2°C.

Last year we had 4, the year before 10, this year we have had 14 with the first 3 doing most of the damage. The first 2 frosts came with little warning and were the worst we have had with temps of -3.4°C and -3.5°C (around 26°F).

I will do this in 2 sections:

  • In-ground palms
  • Seedling frost experiments

I will begin with 2 palms that are soon to be removed.

These Archontophoenix damage at any sign of frost... and this year they might as well be brown leaved palms...

A. alexandrae (left) A. purpurea (right)

post-636-1251072767_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

And as of today...

post-636-1251073174_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

This Pritchardia did fine last year.

This year under a clear plastic sheet cover with blankets thrown over it...

post-636-1251073566_thumb.jpg

P. martii on its last legs...?

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Caryota_gigas

Caryota maxima "himalaya" failed after first frost with no protection... not as cold hardy as many say. Though this is still a young plant with an overall height of only 2 metres. Touch and go as to wether this one will survive...

post-636-1251073912_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

The Ceroxylon parvum alongside handled frost much better, just receiving damage to the most horizontal areas of the leaves.

post-636-1251074216_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

A couple of metres away protected by made made cover each frost, this Rhopalostylis baueri "Raoul Island" is looking a little sorry for itself.

post-636-1251074411_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

Some brighter news... this Hedyscepe after marking up after each frost has come through basically unscathed.

post-636-1251074600_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

Its amazing what some light, natural, overhead protection can do.

Dypsis lutescens is said by most to be too difficult to grow in NZ. This plant has made it through the coldest Winter of my lifetime with flying colours. (As well as prvious Winters).

post-636-1251075360_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

Alongside the D. lutescens is a palm considered even less likely to survive outdoors in NZ. This Hyophorbe verschaffeltii is showing some signs of stress but has done extremely well considering the cold this year. This palm along with D. lutescens can take a lot of cold provided they are not wet at the same time. Good drainage is paramount in Winter, and these palms are in a dry area due to nearby large trees sucking the place dry. Hopefully a long warm Summer will follow to pump out many nice new leaves before next Winter.

post-636-1251075770_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

Other palms under natural cover at my place that have received no damage from the cold include;


  • Prestoea accuminata
  • Chamaedorea glaucifolia
  • Chamaedorea elegans
  • Areca triandra
  • Wettinia praemorsa
  • Caryota monostachya
  • Caryota mitis
  • Rhopalostylis sapida
  • Rhapis excelsa
  • Geonoma brevispatha var. brevispatha

and more...

Many of these palms would have been killed if only a couple of metres away from there protected sites. Natural cover is a fantastic way of ensuring your palms survive frosty Winters.

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Caryota_gigas

Plectocomia elongata in pot under 50% shadecloth

post-636-1251076730_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

In the past this Chambeyronia macrocarpa has coped well with frost. In a mild frost the leaves mark up in a pretty diamond pattern, but that soon fades leaving no permanent damage. This year however with frosts down to the -3.5°C (25.7°F) a different story has emerged.

post-636-1251077414_thumb.jpg

Taken in July 2006

post-636-1251077478_thumb.jpg

Taken August 2009

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Caryota_gigas

Next to that is an untouched Ravenea glauca.

post-636-1251078117_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

My favourite Caryota obtusa look like rubbish thanks to Jack Frost. This is the first time it has really been damaged by the frost.

post-636-1251078353_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

Much browner than it looks in the pic...

post-636-1251078586_thumb.jpg

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Caryota_gigas

It makes me wince to see a 5 metre palm like this...

post-636-1251078705_thumb.jpg

Caryota sp. "Mystery" - Very fast, but was sold by RPS as a frost tolerant clumper, for which it is neither.

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Caryota_gigas

More later... I need a rest.

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Tassie_Troy1971

Hi Micheal

A very detailed and interesting although somewhat horric account of what a hard frost can do to palms. sad to see some of your favorites suffer ,with the exception of the Archonophoenix's and Prichardia the others should make a timely comeback .

Very interesting to see how well the Hedyscepe did with -3.5c a really tough customer ,hardier than howea forsteriana it seems and to think i was worried about mine when our low this winter was 0.1 C ( i am very close to the water ) .

do you have any howea outside in your garden ??

Cheers Troy

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Tyrone

Michael, these have been very interesting and useful results you have documented. You have demonstrated the power of the "microclimate" very well by growing golden canes and spindles in NZ.

Best regards

Tyrone

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pogobob

Global warming my AA!@#@!! Here I am sitting in front of the expanding Gacier in South Island Jan. 07. The headline news said it was the coldest summer in New Zealand in 80 yrs. Currently we in southern California are having a cooler summer. Put that in your journal polititian! :lol:

post-406-1251130719_thumb.jpg

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