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Walter John

Aussie Weather/Climate

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Walter John

Aussie climate

A quick look at major cities

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Tyrone

Wal, those min figures for Perth are a bit off. The summer avg in Perth for min's is 18C and in winter avg max's are 18C. I think those figures have come from somewhere further inland closer to the hills, not inner Perth metro.

Otherwise it's interesting for comparison.

regards

Tyrone

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Walter John

(Tyrone @ Jun. 30 2006,07:32)

QUOTE
Wal, those min figures for Perth are a bit off. The summer avg in Perth for min's is 18C and in winter avg max's are 18C. I think those figures have come from somewhere further inland closer to the hills, not inner Perth metro.

Otherwise it's interesting for comparison.

regards

Tyrone

Don't blame me, blame the Australian Bureau of Meterology. Now when do they get it wrong ?

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Tyrone

(Wal @ Jun. 30 2006,07:37)

QUOTE

(Tyrone @ Jun. 30 2006,07:32)

QUOTE
Wal, those min figures for Perth are a bit off. The summer avg in Perth for min's is 18C and in winter avg max's are 18C. I think those figures have come from somewhere further inland closer to the hills, not inner Perth metro.

Otherwise it's interesting for comparison.

regards

Tyrone

Don't blame me, blame the Australian Bureau of Meterology. Now when do they get it wrong ?

Wal, the BOM don't say that on my computer. I'm taking the figures from "Perth metro" on the BOM website.

It doesn't really matter though, but I don't know where the BOM posted those figures you quoted. Isn't the Australian BOM based in Melbourne. :)

regards

Tyrone

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Tyrone

Perth figures taken from "Perth metro" just down the road a bit.

Jan max 30.6C min 17.8C

Feb max 31.2C min 18C

Mar max 29.3C min 16.5C

Apr max 25.9C min 13.9C

May max 22.3C min 11C

Jun max 19.1C min 8.9C

Jul max 18.2C min 8.1C

Aug max 18.5C min 8.1C

Sep max 20.1C min 9.5C

Oct max 22.8C min 11.2C

Nov max 26.2C min 14.2C

Dec max 29.1C min 16.4C

Annual avg max 24.5C min 12.8C

As far as minimums are concerned we're almost the same as Sydney, but we're warmer than Adelaide. If you are closer to the coast such as Fremantle the winter mins are around 10C, similar to Brisbane, but max's are cooler than the Perth metro.

I just checked the BOM again and the figures quoted at the beggining of this topic for Perth were taken from Perth Airport, which is considerably cooler than most suburbs (except Jandakot) and isn't accurate for most suburbs which are within a few km's of the coast.

regards

Tyrone

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Walter John
I just checked the BOM again and the figures quoted at the beggining of this topic for Perth were taken from Perth Airport, which is considerably cooler than most suburbs (except Jandakot) and isn't accurate for most suburbs which are within a few km's of the coast.

Who cares ?

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Tyrone

(Wal @ Jun. 30 2006,08:59)

QUOTE
Who cares ?

Okee dokee. I get it. Keep smiling.

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NBTX11

Can you post a comparison in Fahrenheit and inches.  I can't think in Celsius and Metric without a conversion chart.

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Walter John

Here's my reply to your question. An extraction from "A Metric World".

"Wouldn't it be nice if, in this global economy and world cooperation, we could all agree on a system of measuring units? Well, we have! The metric system is used worldwide by scientists and manufacturers. It has taken some time for country governments to "officially" change to metric, and there are still three countries left that have not officially switched: Burma, Liberia and the United States."

"Celsius is a more convenient way to measure temperature on Earth than Fahrenheit. 0 is freezing, 100 is boiling - it's that simple. Every Fahrenheit user could switch to Celsius in about a week and live a better life from then on."

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spockvr6

(syersj @ Jun. 30 2006,23:56)

QUOTE
Can you post a comparison in Fahrenheit and inches.  I can't think in Celsius and Metric without a conversion chart.

While Wals reply might be correct in a worldly sense......

Just take the mm readings and divide by 25.4 for inches. To get from the C readings to F, multiply by 1.8 then add 32.

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spockvr6

(Wal @ Jun. 29 2006,20:10)

QUOTE
Aussie climate

A quick look at major cities

Darwin looks like an awful nice place to grow palms!

rn14015.gif

t14015.gif

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NBTX11

The lowest min for Darwin is 10C!  Even Key West has got colder than that before.  Key west has got to 41F for an all time record, which is what 5C.  Sorry don't have my conversion chart handy.

About celsius in the US.  It will never ever ever happen.  They tried converting us and it never took.  I remember when I was in school in the 70's and 80's.  They had us learning metric, it was supposed to be the next big thing.  Well, you can guess what happened to it.  The average person on the street would have no clue whether it was warm or cold if you told them it was 30C outside.

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Walter John

Hi Jim

I still talk in feet when considering heights of people, palms etc. I never took to metres for heights. Ain't that a thing.

I reckon though that celcius is easier than farenheit.

spockvr6

Darwin is great for palms, take my word for it, I was there  about a month ago.

Wal

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Daryl

Also, that 11C (52F) record minimum was a 1 in 100 year event. Most years Darwin never sees below 17C (63F), and most winter lows are still above 20C (68F).

Like all of these charts and averages, it is still hard to judge climate by simply looking at statistics. What you don't see in these graphs is that the temperature is already 30C (85F) by 10am most days of the year, and is still above 27C (80F) at midnight most days of the year (except mid winter), all accompanied with high humidity.

Darwin is a hot place. A lot of world travellers I know have told me there is no heat like Darwin heat. These are people that spend a lot of time in the jungles of Asia. It is one of those places where you sweat all night long all year long.

On paper is doesn't look hot, but you have to feel it to believe it. Southern Australia gets hotter temps in the summer, but 90F in Darwin is much hotter than 90F in Sydney. A lot of palm species won't grow in Darwin because of the heat...even Phoenix canariensis has a very hard time there.

I can't remember how many times I partied on through the night only to crash out on the grass and then wake up the next morning...no dew, not cold etc...just like being indoors.

I can't comment on Key West as I've never been there, but I think Darwin would be a much warmer climate.

Daryl.

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Daryl

Re: Metric...

All of you car-heads on the board...what thread sizes and head sizes do your nuts and bolts on modern cars have these days?

Daryl.

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NBTX11

(Daryl @ Jul. 01 2006,18:59)

QUOTE
Also, that 11C (52F) record minimum was a 1 in 100 year event. Most years Darwin never sees below 17C (63F), and most winter lows are still above 20C (68F).

Like all of these charts and averages, it is still hard to judge climate by simply looking at statistics. What you don't see in these graphs is that the temperature is already 30C (85F) by 10am most days of the year, and is still above 27C (80F) at midnight most days of the year (except mid winter), all accompanied with high humidity.

Darwin is a hot place. A lot of world travellers I know have told me there is no heat like Darwin heat. These are people that spend a lot of time in the jungles of Asia. It is one of those places where you sweat all night long all year long.

On paper is doesn't look hot, but you have to feel it to believe it. Southern Australia gets hotter temps in the summer, but 90F in Darwin is much hotter than 90F in Sydney. A lot of palm species won't grow in Darwin because of the heat...even Phoenix canariensis has a very hard time there.

I can't remember how many times I partied on through the night only to crash out on the grass and then wake up the next morning...no dew, not cold etc...just like being indoors.

I can't comment on Key West as I've never been there, but I think Darwin would be a much warmer climate.

Daryl.

South Flordia and the Florida Keys are much like you are talking about.  Most of the year it is pure tropical.  Key west average WINTER low is 66F, summer low is 80F.  These are lows, not highs.  FL don't get much above 90F, but add the oppressive humidity, and you get heat index over 100F almost every summer day.  That's why a 90F Florida day is 50X hotter than a 90F Cal or Arizona day, IMO.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Anyone want a very good.... but simple temperature conversion program... here is is. Its Called Quicktemp.

Quicktemp

Jeff

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SubTropicRay

Hi Wal,

Please make it nice in November OK?  I'm really looking forward to our trip.

Ray

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Walter John

(Ray, Tampa @ Jul. 05 2006,08:19)

QUOTE
Hi Wal,

Please make it nice in November OK?  I'm really looking forward to our trip.

Ray

No worries Ray, just make sure you get Colin back here in time to take you on his boat. November is usually perfect in South East Queensland but getting a fraction humid up north Cairns way and in Darwin ...well ... I hear it's ultra humid in November.

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Jeff Nugent

Warning it can get to 40degCelsius in the shade in Darwin....

.......so keep out of the shade!  :cool:

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Walter John

Here's the latets middle of winter Brisbane forecast. Not bad. 11 July, 2006. 1:45 pm

Forecast for Wednesday

Fine. Some early morning fog patches. Light to moderate SW to NW winds with

local afternoon coastal seabreezes.

Precis:       Fine                              

City:         Min 13    Max 25

Thursday   Fine

Min 13    Max 23

Friday    Mostly fine

Min 13    Max 21

Saturday    Rain developing

Min 14    Max 20

Sunday        Rain periods

Min 15    Max 20

Monday        Rain periods

Min 15    Max 20

Temp convertor here: Temp Convertor

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Tyrone

You've got some beautiful weather over there Wal. Is winter finished for you already?

The envy metre at my end is off the scale.

This week has been a little taste of Melbourne. Too cold for my palms.

regards

Tyrone

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Tyrone

Thought some might find these maps interesting.

post-63-1152622382_thumb.png

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Tyrone

A more detailed one

post-63-1152622441_thumb.png

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Dave-Vero

Here's a climate diagram (klimadiagramme) for Miami.  Precipitation is shown compressed above a point where the German experts think the plants will have plenty.  For Florida, it doesn't quite work, because we reliably aren't really wet until at least mid-May.   April is a very pleasant month to visit.  The summer temperature of about 23 degrees C can be somewhat envervating, but if you're on a veranda with a fan, it can be OK.  Living without air conditioning in the summer is not a widely-adopted option, but it can be done.  Orlando in the summer is unpleasanter.  The diagram gives no hint that there's a pretty firm upper limit on warm temperatures, but even Miami freezes at erratic intervals.  I recall visiting Fairchild Tropical Garden after the great 1989 freeze and being impressed that while there were a lot of damaged palm leaves, overall things looked quite good.  

http://www.klimadiagramme.de/Namerika/miami.html

And here's Brisbane:

http://www.klimadiagramme.de/Australien/brisbane.html

The're cooler in the winter.  Dry season is shorter, sharper.

And here's Cairns:

http://www.klimadiagramme.de/Australien/cairns.html

Looks like a pretty good match to Miami.  Any wonder that Queensland Melaleuca quinquenervia has run amok in south Florida, while Florida's Annona glabra (pond apple) is invading Melaleuca habitat in Queensland?

Once you get used to them, the climate diagrams are useful, well-designed graphics.  Of course one of my professors helped invent them, so I got accustomed to the things.

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Walter John

(Dave-Vero @ Jul. 11 2006,21:52)

QUOTE
And, oh, my!  Perth at its coolest is like Miami at its steamiest! 25 degrees!

http://www.klimadiagramme.de/Australien/darwin.html

At least Perth in the winter is a bit cooler than Orlando in the summer.

You mean Darwin, not Perth.

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NBTX11

(Dave-Vero @ Jul. 11 2006,21:47)

QUOTE
, but even Miami freezes at erratic intervals.  I recall visiting Fairchild Tropical Garden after the great 1989 freeze and being impressed that while there were a lot of damaged palm leaves, overall things looked quite good.  

According the weather.com, Miami has only had 2 "freezes" in history, if you want to call it that.  Both right at 32F/0C on Jan 20, 1977 and Dec 24, 1989.  Don't know how far back the records go.

http://www.weather.com/weather....onth=12

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NBTX11

Here is a comparison between Miami and Darwin.  For summer at each location, the temperature is identical - 91/77F at each location.  In winter, Darwin is obviously warmer by about 5-10F (3-5C).  For much of the year it appears somewhat similar.  Miami has extremely high humidity, and I assume Darwin does as well.

Darwin:                                       Miami:

                  H           L                   H           L

January     89.2° F 76.6° F          76.0° F 60.0° F

February   88.5° F 76.5° F          78.0° F 61.0° F

March        89.2° F 76.1° F          81.0° F 64.0° F

April          91.2° F 75.4° F          84.0° F 68.0° F

May           89.8° F 72.1° F          87.0° F 72.0° F

June          87.1° F 67.8° F          90.0° F 75.0° F

July            86.9° F 66.6° F          91.0° F 77.0° F

August       88.3° F 69.3° F         91.0° F 76.0° F

September 90.7° F 73.8° F         89.0° F 76.0° F

October     91.9° F 77.0° F          85.0° F 72.0° F

November  91.9° F 77.9° F         81.0° F 68.0° F

December  91.0° F 77.9° F         78.0° F 62.0° F

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Dave-Vero

My apologies for writing Perth when I  meant Darwin.  That's like saying San Diego when you mean Miami.  And thanks, syersj for providing those temperatures.  Here's a revision keyed to the coolest month (**).  The highest temperatures don't match:

Darwin:                                       Miami:

                 H           L                   H           L

January     89.2° F 76.6° F       *  91.0° F 77.0° F July

February   88.5° F 76.5° F           91.0° F 76.0° F   Aug

March        89.2° F 76.1° F           89.0° F 76.0° F   Sept

April          91.2° F 75.4° F           85.0° F 72.0° F    Oct

May           89.8° F 72.1° F           81.0° F 68.0° F    Nov

June          87.1° F 67.8° F           78.0° F 62.0° F    Dec

July            86.9° F 66.6° F   **    76.0° F 60.0° F   Jan

August       88.3° F 69.3° F          78.0° F 61.0° F    Feb

September 90.7° F 73.8° F          81.0° F 64.0° F    Mar

October     91.9° F 77.0° F    *     84.0° F 68.0° F     Apr

November  91.9° F 77.9° F   *     87.0° F 72.0° F    May

December  91.0° F 77.9° F          90.0° F 75.0° F    June

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Dave-Vero

The Miami freezes (32/0 degrees) in 1977 and 1989 are the worst ones in the second half of the 20th century.  The 1977 cold snap caused snow in Freeport, the Bahamas and the 1989 freeze effectively destroyed the citrus-growing industry within about 50 miles of Orlando.  Almost none of the ruined groves were replanted.  

I think there were real freezes in Miami in the 1920s.  Unfortunately, earlier temperature records in the area might not be very reliable.  I'll check Frank Craighead's 1971 book on "Trees of the Everglades" to see what information he has.

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Tyrone

Dave-vero, I wondered what you meant that Perth is warmer than Miami. The climate here is not that good and I thought you were being sarcastic. Then I noticed Darwin on your attachment.

Interesting graphs. Heres Perth

http://www.klimadiagramme.de/Australien/perth.html

and for a US comparison, Here's San Diego

http://www.klimadiagramme.de/Namerika/sandiego.html

The temps are very similar, but Perth is a wetter place, in a normal year.

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Dave-Vero

And of course Perth is famous for its flora, just as the mediterranean-climate portions of California and (especially) South Africa are.  

I checked Frank Craighead's "The trees of south Florida, Volume 1" from 1971.  He says severe freezes occurred in Florida in 1894 and 1895, but there were few settlers in Miami at the time, so there's apparently no useful information on effects.  Mr. William Krome, construction engineer for the Key West railroad, said the freeze of 1899 killed "many full grown mahoganies".  He recorded freezes in the Homestead area south of Miami in 1905, 1906, 1909, and 1915.  Miami was 27 degrees F on February 3, 1917.  Many Casuarina trees were killed.  Homestead was 24 degrees in 1918.  Mangroves suffered cold damage from a 1956 freeze.  The worst freeze damage since 1917 occurred in 1962, with freezing temperatures on December 11, 12, 13, and 14.  On March 2, 1968, there was a low of 29 degrees at Homestead.  

Craighead was a very capable biologist and his sons are rather famous as grizzly bear experts.

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NBTX11

(Dave-Vero @ Jul. 12 2006,09:08)

QUOTE
 Mr. William Krome, construction engineer for the Key West railroad, said the freeze of 1899 killed "many full grown mahoganies".  

I wonder if that is who Krome Ave that goes from the turnpike to Homestead is named after. (I am somewhat familiar with that part of Miami-Dade).

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Dave-Vero

I'm sure it's the same Krome.  

These cold snaps don't mean much for Miami-Dade County residents with landscaping in the context of a decade or so, but they've done a great deal to shape the native vegetation and flora.  And destruction of vegetable and fruit crops has had severe economic impacts.  

A corollary is that palms native to the southern tip of Florida can generally be grown successfully some distance to the north.  Paurotis/Everglades palm (Acoelorraphe) is a prime example.  I've seen a huge clump inland from Tampa, Florida (Plant City) and smaller ones at Daytona Beach.

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Robert Lee Riffle

Hmmph ....  The center of HELL is a tad cooler tham Orlando in the summer .... and also has less traffic.

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Alan_Tampa

My friend in the Redlands ran overhead irrigation four (4) times this past winter.  Had frost.  Has frost in some spots almost annually.  

Alan

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NBTX11

Then the Redlands must get alot colder than the official weather station.  The official weather station hasn't had a "freeze" (32F) since 1989 and averages about 40F for a low.  Unless he gets frosts at 36-37F.  I am familiar with the redlands area of inland Dade and it seems to get colder than the coast.

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