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JimR

Weed & Feed

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JimR

I am getting ready to spread weed and feed on my lawn. This is something I do not usually do, but the dollar weed is out of control this year. I have any number of palms in the lawn, growing right out of the grass without any sort of barrier. Should I be concerned about the weed killer in the Weed & Feed harming the palms? Are there specific brands which are known not to harm palms? All advice appreciated.

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DoomsDave

A lot depends on the chemical you're using.

Most weed and feeds use 2-4-D which attacks dicots but not monocots, but there are exceptions, that is about the monocots.

St. Augustine grass is damaged by 2-4-D, and so you have be careful around palms, too. While they're monocots, they may also be "exceoptions" -- until someone with more specific advice comes along, I would keep the chemical off the foliage of the palms.

So, anyone, are you experienced?

220px-JimiHendrix2.jpg

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DoomsDave

Well, uh, I guess we're not too experienced . . . . .

JimR:

What "weed and feed" are you using? Maybe post what the ingredients from the label?

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JimR

I was hoping to get some guidance here before I went out and bought it. Left to my own devices, I will probably get Scotts Bonus S Southern Weed And Feed or a similar product. There does not appear to be any product label info. at the Scotts site, but I found the following info. at a retailer site:

Active Ingredients: 1.055% Atrazine

Fertilizer Analysis: 29-3-4

I also found the following rather indeciferable info. from another site:

Ingredients from MSDS/Label

Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent

Urea 000057-13-6

Atrazine 001912-24-9

Ammonium phosphate, monobasic 007722-76-1

Potassium sulfate 007778-80-5

Ammonium sulfate 007783-20-2

Nuisance dust 999999-60-8

JimR:

What "weed and feed" are you using? Maybe post what the ingredients from the label?

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JimR

Now that I have stopped actually working and started to do some research of my own, I am finding some evidence that this Atrazine may be bad stuff. It has been banned in Europe and is appearantly unkind to froggies. The UF site (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/EP141) also contains this statement: "Products that contain dicamba, metsulfuron, or atrazine can be absorbed by the roots of ornamentals and cause severe injury. Do not apply products that contain these ingredients near the root zone of ornamental trees and shrubs."

I think I have come to the conclusion that I should NOT use Scotts Bonus S. But, what should I use?

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Keith in SoJax

Jim, I work for Scotts but I'm no turf expert, in fact, I'm replacing turf with landscape beds full of palms. Do you have St Augustinegrass? Long term I want grass that will live here in Jacksonville, FL on our natural rainfall. I turned off the sprinklers about 18 months ago and the St Aug has declined rapidly despite 5' of rain per year!!!. I have also found that 2-4 D applied precisely will kill dollarweed without killing my palms. However, its a matter of spot treating the worst areas instead of broadcasting 2-4- D willy-nilly. Also, don't over-apply. Just wet the foliage and allow it to dry. Time the application when rainfall isn't expected for a couple days and turn off the spriklers. 2-4 D doesn't kill all varieties of St Aug so you could try a little on grass that isn't in a high visibility area first. Just be careful by starting in a small, hidden area first.

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DoomsDave

Somebody put some atrazine in Mrs. Murphy's Ovaltine . . . . . (and she's ticked!)

Atrazine is different from 2-4-D. Atrazine is a pre- and post-emergent weedkiller of grasses and broadleaved plants. I wouldn't use that for what you have in mind, JimR, as you already realize.

2-4-D works through the leaves of dicots, therefore making it useful to control dandelions, plaintains, etc., in grass (but not St. Aug grass) lawns. I'd be very careful around plants you're worried about, because: (a) some monocots can be injured and (B) it's not always easy to tell a mono- from a di-.

Keith has good advice!

Here's a link for 2-4-D.

CLICK HERE FOR 2-4-D Link

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JimR

It sound like a product like the following might be a good choice as it is based on 2,4-D: Scotts Lawn Pro Super Turf Builder with Plus 2 Weed Control. Has anyone used it?

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Tyrone

In West Oz, I think Atrizine can only be sprayed by licenced sprayers, and 2-4-D I think is banned over here. It's deadly stuff. Don't get it on your skin or inhale it or anything. To use it safely you need to be suited up. Don't let it drain into drain ways, waterways, fishponds etc.

2-4-D is the active component of Agent Orange and is loaded with dioxins. Dioxins are a serious poison that can enter the food chain.

Best regards

Tyrone

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tikitiki

I have always used scotts bonus s and I have no problems over the past 5 years. most of my palms are in beds and at least 1 foot from the grass. I just make sure not to spread it into the beds.

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gsn

As tikitiki , I have also used atrazine with no problems over the last 4 years. Maybe a ticking time bomb, but so far so good!

Having said that all my palms are also in beds, and I apply it only to the grass,making sure it doesn't get in the palm beds!

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_Keith

Be careful with Atrazine around any Oaks, unless of course you don't want them around.

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DoomsDave
Be careful with Atrazine around any Oaks, unless of course you don't want them around.

As in the Live become the Dead? :huh:

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Gan Eden
In West Oz, I think Atrizine can only be sprayed by licenced sprayers, and 2-4-D I think is banned over here. It's deadly stuff. Don't get it on your skin or inhale it or anything. To use it safely you need to be suited up. Don't let it drain into drain ways, waterways, fishponds etc.

2-4-D is the active component of Agent Orange and is loaded with dioxins. Dioxins are a serious poison that can enter the food chain.

Best regards

Tyrone

I'm a licensed sprayer and 2-4-D is banned.

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merrill

Hi, JimR:

I don't want to be specific, but you have been given a LOT of misinformation by more than one source. I would suggest you call or write the extension agents at the nearest Land grant University or the county Agriculture Extension Agents.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited by merrill

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Wai`anae Steve

Don't know nuttin bout this chemical, but a side note"

In the mid 60's I was in the navy and we used Tricloralethalyn (sp) to clean electronic parts and our hands. It really worked GOOD. Now I understand it has been banned for years. But so far I'm healthy and don't expect to contract any cancer.

Look at what the banning of DDT did for the mosquito population of tropical Africa.

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Tyrone
In West Oz, I think Atrizine can only be sprayed by licenced sprayers, and 2-4-D I think is banned over here. It's deadly stuff. Don't get it on your skin or inhale it or anything. To use it safely you need to be suited up. Don't let it drain into drain ways, waterways, fishponds etc.

2-4-D is the active component of Agent Orange and is loaded with dioxins. Dioxins are a serious poison that can enter the food chain.

Best regards

Tyrone

I'm a licensed sprayer and 2-4-D is banned.

Well there you go then. I'm glad it actually is banned. I thought I heard it was banned somewhere. It's something the gov has actually done right then.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Tyrone
Look at what the banning of DDT did for the mosquito population of tropical Africa.

Look what DDT did to the food chain. It's gone through everything and is actually creating thin shells in Antarctic bird eggs. Once again another BAD substance once touted as an amazing cure all for many different things.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Keith in SoJax

Guys, 2,4-D is not full of Dioxin! It's on the California Prop 65 list, but they don't even list it as cancer causing any more. They do say it causes developmental problems in males. I'd hardly classify it as "deadly", especially if used as directed. I've attached a hyperlink to the Prop65 list below. Also, 2,4-D isn't anywhere near as persistent in the environment as DDT either so the chances of it causing widespread environmental damage is significantly less than DDT (or chlordane).

Now, using it around desirable ornamentals is a different issue. You should use it carefully, follow the directions (or hire an applicator if you are in Australia). But it might be a good tool to remove (suppress) broadleaf weeds in landscape turf.

http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/prop65_list/fil...ingle121908.pdf

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David N.TX.

Fertilizing and killing weeds should be done as two seperate operations. You need to find a weed killer that is compatable with your turf grass. More than likely you will need to keep the weed killer out of the root zone of your trees. As Merrill said you should contact your county extension service if you are not sure.

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falcon1988

I have tried Weed&feed sometime ago like 6-7 years ago and what I saw was it will stop the growth of the palm sometimes it will kill outright

and at first i thought it was something else put i saw other showing the same thing it was the weed&feed was causing the palms to go down hill

the growth just stops depending how much you applied if its small amounts then maybe it will pull thru but i will never buy that product again.

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JimR

It does not sound like there is a good weed & feed product for me. Any advice on ways to control dollarweed that will not hurt my palms, citrus, plumeria, etc.?

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GREENHAND

Try using a pump up hand sprayer, with MSMA, i think thats the name of it, any way, mow first then wait three days then mix and spray on lawn, make sure it is not windy you dont want overspray on palms. it needs to at least 80 deg outside to most effective will kill all weeds without effecting palms. as lond as you do not get it on other folage you should be ok.

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tank

I wish I could get dollar weed to "turf" out. Dollar weed would probably be the best ground cover around. Seems to do great in the cold and drought and you never need to mow. Also, its great at shadowing out other weeds including turfgrass.

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_Keith
I wish I could get dollar weed to "turf" out. Dollar weed would probably be the best ground cover around. Seems to do great in the cold and drought and you never need to mow. Also, its great at shadowing out other weeds including turfgrass.

Yep, doesn't climb much either.

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tank
Yep, doesn't climb much either.

Form lends to very good water retention as well.

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JimR

Thanks. I will look this stuff up.

Try using a pump up hand sprayer, with MSMA, i think thats the name of it, any way, mow first then wait three days then mix and spray on lawn, make sure it is not windy you dont want overspray on palms. it needs to at least 80 deg outside to most effective will kill all weeds without effecting palms. as lond as you do not get it on other folage you should be ok.

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David N.TX.

Jim, Hold on! Using MSMA is a bad idea. It is used for grassy weeds which are monocots. I think it is best for you to contact your local nursery professionals or county extension people. The extension folks should be in the government part of your phone book.

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JimR

I will try to give them a call. but the Aransas County Ag Extension agent is unlikely to know about anything more ornamental that cotton.

Jim, Hold on! Using MSMA is a bad idea. It is used for grassy weeds which are monocots. I think it is best for you to contact your local nursery professionals or county extension people. The extension folks should be in the government part of your phone book.

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JimR

I mean no disrespect in what I just wrote, just that his job is to know primarily about cotton cultivation.

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Tyrone
Guys, 2,4-D is not full of Dioxin! You should use it carefully, follow the directions (or hire an applicator if you are in Australia).

Jim, this is from the link regarding 2,4-D. "However, 2,4-D is still contaminated to some extent with dioxins, predominately those with 2 or 3 chlorine atoms"

And noone in Australia is allowed to use it, not even licensed sprayers.

Best regards

Tyrone

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merrill

Gentlemen:

I agree W/ Keith re' dioxins. Don't think you'd find them in 2,4-D for the last forty years!

merrill

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_Keith
Gentlemen:

I agree W/ Keith re' dioxins. Don't think you'd find them in 2,4-D for the last forty years!

merrill

Agreed here too. I have, and do use 2,4D.

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