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SuburbanGuy

8-10 miles from shore in West Palm Beach

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SuburbanGuy

I'm moving from northern Illinois to West Palm Beach next week.

I've been looking at every climate zone and hardiness zone map that I can find. As most know, those maps are only a general guideline of what can be grown in any specific area. The maps have been updated, showing a slight warming trend. Some areas of South Florida that were Zone 9A are now shown to be Zone 10. The more recent USDA hardiness zone map have done away with the a/b divisions, which most knowledgeable people feel is a big mistake. Things that can grow at the upper end of Zone 9 do not grow well at the lower end of Zone 9. I also know these maps cannot take into account the microclimates, and it's well known that South Florida has a number of microclimates. I was hoping that the new map that was due out in early 2009 would've been released, it was meant to bring back a/b divisions and for the first time, attempt to show microclimates.

Anyway, the area of West Palm Beach where I'll be living is 8.5 miles from the beach, just slightly west of the Florida Turnpike. It'll be Belvedere Rd & Benoist Farms Rd.

Palm Beach County is about 50 miles across, so I will be in the eastern 1/5 of the county, but that might not be close enough to the beach to be within Zone 10b, according to some climate/hardiness maps...

Still though, I am not sure, looking at these maps makes me wonder if I'm going to be Zone 10a or 10b.

1995_FL_medium.jpg

floridawcounties_sm.gif

The first map shows that I would be within Zone 10b, but the second map shows only a very very slim area ON the coast that's 10b, and it looks like that's less than 10 miles maybe only -5 miles. Since I'm going to be somewhat inland, 8-9 miles away from shore, not right on the beach, I guess I won't fully benefit from the gulf stream or whatever allows the coast of Palm Beach County to be *almost* as warm as Miami in the winter.

For those of you that have lived in the western side of West Palm Beach, 10 or so miles from shore, what is your experience? Does it qualify as a Zone 10b, and is it almost as warm as Miami in the winter ? Or is it really Zone 10a ?

edit: this map makes things look more hopeful

avtempfl.jpg

that warmer zone includes half of Palm Beach County!

On the other hand, this older map is very disheartening

floridazones.jpg

It shows that not only is my area not 10b, it's barely 10a, and very closely boarders on 9b!

Yet it also doesn't make much sense to me. It shows that the very southern tip of Miami-Dade is colder (10a) than central Miami-Dade (10b). I hope this map is the most wrong and outdated.

http://centralfloridagarden.com/images/zon...06_zones_FL.jpg

And this most recent one, doesn't show a/b divisions and I find it hard to believe how far north Zone 10 extends,

well north of Vero Beach. Actually all the way upto just slightly north of Cape Canaveral. I find that impossible to believe.

Edited by SuburbanGuy

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SuburbanGuy

I've found lots of climate/hardiness maps, some more interesting than others, most are similar to each other including the ones I posted above, but they have important differences. Though I know they're only a very CRUDE guideline, at best.

AHS 2003 Draft Hardiness Zone Map

25srkf7.jpg

24lsojl.jpg

dqkc2d.jpg

Average January Temperature

http://www.worldbook.com/wb/images/content..._jan_legend.gif

florida_jan_map.gif

Edited by SuburbanGuy

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palmislandRandy

Welcome to Florida & the forum! :D I wouldn't rely on a map to protect me. I saw some severe cold damage on some Archontos. at some nurseries just west of #441, after last months cold spell. I live about 30 mins south of your new digs & it got down to +/-37 & I had some slight damage. If you want Miami weather you gotta move to Miami! I can hear it now "but the map said........".

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SuburbanGuy

Okay well I will ask another way, how different, in reality, is the weather in West Palm Beach from that of Miami and Miami Beach?

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spockvr6
Okay well I will ask another way, how different, in reality, is the weather in West Palm Beach from that of Miami and Miami Beach?

In the cold snap of 2/5/09, here is what was logged---

West Palm Beach AP - 33F

Ft Lauderdale AP - 37F

Miami AP - 38F

On the previous snap on 1/3/2008---

West Palm Beach AP - 35F

Ft Lauderdale AP - 39F

Miami AP - 39F

In the 2/17/2007 cold event-----

West Palm Beach AP - 36F

Ft Lauderdale AP - 42F

Miami AP - 42F

In the 2/14/2006 "St Valentines Day" debacle---

West Palm Beach AP - 36F

Ft Lauderdale AP - 41F

Miami AP - 44F

Edited by spockvr6

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spockvr6
Anyway, the area of West Palm Beach where I'll be living is 8.5 miles from the beach, just slightly west of the Florida Turnpike. It'll be Belvedere Rd & Benoist Farms Rd.

The closest two stations I can find on weatherunderground for your area have their data below.

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...;graphspan=year

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation...;graphspan=year

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epicure3

I think your stats tell it like it is, Larry. I know when I go to visit friends in Weston, it is like a completely different world than when I cruise over to friends who live in Noth Miami Beach.

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spockvr6
I think your stats tell it like it is, Larry. I know when I go to visit friends in Weston, it is like a completely different world than when I cruise over to friends who live in Noth Miami Beach.

I used to live in Davie (which is right next to Weston) and just a few streets away from Jeff Searle's place (although I didnt know it at the time) and also lived in Miami Beach prior to that. These two areas are completely different worlds in more ways than one :mrlooney:

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SubTropicRay

Miami's warmth is not only attributed to its geographical location but the extensive heat island. West Palm Beach is warm but not nearly the heat sink that is Dade County.

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SuburbanGuy
Miami's warmth is not only attributed to its geographical location but the extensive heat island. West Palm Beach is warm but not nearly the heat sink that is Dade County.

Ah yeah, I saw something about that:

hot_season.gif

Miami in Miami-Dade County and to a slightly lesser extent, Fort Lauderdale in Broward Country, seem to be right inside that heat island. Whereas West Palm Beach and basicly all of Palm Beach Country sits outside of that zone.

Edited by SuburbanGuy

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SuburbanGuy

While Googling using different search terms, I finally found something that gets specific about microclimates in the northern part of South Florida. particularly Palm Beach and Martin counties. And my earlier guessing was dead right. The warmer coastal temps are limited to east of the Florida Turnpike, which is exactly where my new place was going to be, 8 miles inland, but now I've found another place that's 3 miles from the water. So this seems to be the difference between Zone 10a and 10b, with 10b being very limited to a sliver of coastal Palm Beach and Martin counties, assuming this is true

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/restaurants/c...nes1102_vc.html

Swamp Gardener: Gardeners need to know their growing zones

By 'Cash' Cashion

Sunday, November 02, 2008

Remember that various sections of South Florida have different growing zones.

In south Palm Beach county, east of Florida's Turnpike, you are safe from bad frost or cold for three growing seasons. In south county but west of the turnpike? Then the temperature is a little colder by about 6 to 8 degrees.

However, west of the turnpike, temps can be up to 8 degrees colder.

In north county, west of the turnpike, watch out for frost and cold snaps in December, January and February.

Middle county, east of the turnpike, has three growing seasons. In middle county, west of the turnpike, start seedlings or seeds in August. You have three growing seasons but could get some frost/cold in December, January and first part of February.

In north county, east of the turnpike, start seeds/seedlings in August; you can get in three crops. Cold or frost is possible in December, January and February. In north county, west of the turnpike, it's colder, so start seeds and seedlings in August.

You still can get in three crops, but watch out for frost and cold snaps in December, January and February. The climate west of the turnpike is about 8 degrees lower than east of this highway. This hold true, usually, for all areas in Palm Beach County.

The Treasure Coast is a little different. Around Stuart are areas where water modifies the temperature. So eastern Martin County has a locally warmer growing area.

However, west of the turnpike around Stuart, Palm City, etc., there is at least an 8 degree temperature decrease, thus a higher possibility of cold damage.

Edited by SuburbanGuy

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spockvr6

Suburbanguy-

If having the best cliamte is a top concern, the answer to your question is basically.........

Move as close to the water as you can.

Obviously, as soon as one gets west of the turnpike, the temp doesnt just drop off immediately in one single swoop. It drops gradually as one goes west. Around here, Ive noted that the drop is not linear. For instance, the first 1/2 mile from the water will show a larger temp drop than each additional half mile inland, etc.

Also, keep in mind that if the cold front is a windy one, that water location may matter less (depending on wind direction). In WPB, if the wind is stiff from the NW, then the water's influence will obviously be moderated.

Also, there are numerous amateur weather stations in the WPB area with much data available online at weatherunderground.com. Search around there at historical data and in a few minutes youll get a pretty good feel for where you might want to look for housing (assuming low temps are a big factor in your decision).

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SuburbanGuy
Suburbanguy-

If having the best cliamte is a top concern, the answer to your question is basically.........

Move as close to the water as you can.

Obviously, as soon as one gets west of the turnpike, the temp doesnt just drop off immediately in one single swoop. It drops gradually as one goes west. Around here, Ive noted that the drop is not linear. For instance, the first 1/2 mile from the water will show a larger temp drop than each additional half mile inland, etc.

Also, keep in mind that if the cold front is a windy one, that water location may matter less (depending on wind direction). In WPB, if the wind is stiff from the NW, then the water's influence will obviously be moderated.

Also, there are numerous amateur weather stations in the WPB area with much data available online at weatherunderground.com. Search around there at historical data and in a few minutes youll get a pretty good feel for where you might want to look for housing (assuming low temps are a big factor in your decision).

I have found a better place in WPB that is not only EAST of the Turnpike and the airport it is also east (by a few meters) of I-95. It's 2.8 miles from the water, and seems to be well within that very thin area of Zone 10b in PBCo on some maps. It's interesting though, that the biggest temp drop off occurs 1/2 mile from the water. I won't be within 1/2 mile (since Palm Beach is east of WPB for much of the length of WPB. For me, being under 3 miles should be good enough. I won't be growing much for awhile, as I'm not a gardener, I just want to live in as warm a location as I can find within a very limited time. I had to make the decision about moving quick, within weeks. I've been approved by this complex and I'm glad that I turned down the other one that was 8.5 miles away just west of the Turnpike.

I'll check those temps posted at weatherunderground.com just out of curiosity. Much thanks spockvr6.

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SuburbanGuy

I'm moving from northern Illinois to West Palm Beach next week.

I've been looking at every climate zone and hardiness zone map that I can find. As most know, those maps are only a general guideline of what can be grown in any specific area. The maps have been updated, showing a slight warming trend. Some areas of South Florida that were Zone 9A are now shown to be Zone 10. The more recent USDA hardiness zone map have done away with the a/b divisions, which most knowledgeable people feel is a big mistake. Things that can grow at the upper end of Zone 9 do not grow well at the lower end of Zone 9. I also know these maps cannot take into account the microclimates, and it's well known that South Florida has a number of microclimates. I was hoping that the new map that was due out in early 2009 would've been released, it was meant to bring back a/b divisions and for the first time, attempt to show microclimates.

Anyway, the area of West Palm Beach where I'll be living is 8.5 miles from the beach, just slightly west of the Florida Turnpike. It'll be Belvedere Rd & Benoist Farms Rd.

Palm Beach County is about 50 miles across, so I will be in the eastern 1/5 of the county, but that might not be close enough to the beach to be within Zone 10b, according to some climate/hardiness maps...

Still though, I am not sure, looking at these maps makes me wonder if I'm going to be Zone 10a or 10b.

1995_FL_medium.jpg

floridawcounties_sm.gif

The first map shows that I would be within Zone 10b, but the second map shows only a very very slim area ON the coast that's 10b, and it looks like that's less than 10 miles maybe only -5 miles. Since I'm going to be somewhat inland, 8-9 miles away from shore, not right on the beach, I guess I won't fully benefit from the gulf stream or whatever allows the coast of Palm Beach County to be *almost* as warm as Miami in the winter.

For those of you that have lived in the western side of West Palm Beach, 10 or so miles from shore, what is your experience? Does it qualify as a Zone 10b, and is it almost as warm as Miami in the winter ? Or is it really Zone 10a ?

edit: this map makes things look more hopeful

avtempfl.jpg

that warmer zone includes half of Palm Beach County!

On the other hand, this older map is very disheartening

floridazones.jpg

It shows that not only is my area not 10b, it's barely 10a, and very closely boarders on 9b!

Yet it also doesn't make much sense to me. It shows that the very southern tip of Miami-Dade is colder (10a) than central Miami-Dade (10b). I hope this map is the most wrong and outdated.

http://centralfloridagarden.com/images/zon...06_zones_FL.jpg

And this most recent one, doesn't show a/b divisions and I find it hard to believe how far north Zone 10 extends,

well north of Vero Beach. Actually all the way upto just slightly north of Cape Canaveral. I find that impossible to believe.

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epicure3
:huh: Is there a reason why this was resurrected?

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happ

:huh: Is there a reason why this was resurrected?

I'm glad it was bummed by SuburbanGuy: those climate maps are awesome. B)

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bubba

I am afraid SuburbanGuy must be appopletic after moving to Florida and the Palm Beach area during the coldest Winter since 1940!

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