New Archontophoenix alexandrae!

[Kostas 154]

Hello!

My 2 Archontophoenix alexandrae which i had ordered from Palme Per Paket(www.palmeperpaket.de) the past week,just came!!!

They came perfectly packed too,even protected by an insulation box,something i think was very well thought coming from Germany,which had just experienced awfully low tempratures the past 2 weeks if i am right Packing material was in the box too that held the plants still and prevented damage to their leaves

Anyway,enough said,here are the pictures!!!!

Resting on the box they came in,just barely unpacked

The smaller of the 2(by one pinnate leaf only )

The bigger one

[Kostas 154]

Both

Looking up the biggest leaf

Petiole close up,showing the many hair covering the petiole and crownshaft

These Archontophoenix alexandrae(normal variety,which i like the most by the way ) were bought as 40-50cm palms and look at them!They are more than 60cm tall palm height! They are heading for the ground in about two weeks from now,at my garden in Pyrgos The only problem is that they are greenhouse grown plants and will probably need some sun acclimation...Where i am going to plant them,they should be getting about 2-4 hours of sun at noon only and thats it,do you think they will burnseverely if planted unprotected? I dont mind a 50%leaf burn but anything more than that would be unacceptable as i dont want to stress them out I have read many sun acclimation articles and most suggest a shade tent made over the palms till they acclimate.How soon do you think these will acclimate and i will be able to remove the tent?I dont mind the tent at all but the other members of my family dont like the tent idea too much if its for more than 1-2 months What i am not sure i understand correctly about the sun acclimation is the following:do the already existing leaves become hardy during the acclimation and dont burn thereafter all does the whole acclimation procedure base itself in the production of new,sun hardy leaves and so once you remove the protection,all shade leaves die but there are some new ones so no big deal?Also,how many leaves does an Archontophoenix alexandrae put in 2-3 months?

Thank you very much in advance!

I hope you liked them!

[Davidl 47]

Are you sure those are Archontophoenix alexandrae ? Maybe the Australian posters can verify. Im not saying there not but those fronds are blunt on the end and not pointy as I was thinking they should be. The petioles are similar to archontophoenix. These are some small A.alexandrae I grew several yrs ago.

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1055342288038155055XnGmtM

[MattyB 2,007]

They look more like A. cunninghamiana

[John in Andalucia 593]

The leaf tips have been clipped. Had they used pinking shears, they could have sold them as Pinangas - just kidding, Kostas. I hope you got what you ordered.

[osideterry 83]

I think they are cunningham also. The scaliness on the petioles, and the same color green on the leaf underside.

The good news: cold hardier than an Alex, and about as fast a grower. Archos are very satisfying to watch grow.

The bad news: more common and leaves not so pretty when the wind beats them up.

[gyuseppe 581]

I have bought palms, from Palme Per Paket ,and arrived everything ok,never an exchange of palms,

tobias w. spanner person professional

[LJG 1,163]

Kostas, you can't win buddy!

I think you need to stop ordering online.

[Tyrone 1,847]

Yes, they are Bangalows, but a great palm to grow nonetheless.

Kostas I'm not really sure how strong your summer sun is etc, but one thing is for sure, these palms just love water. The more water you pump into them the more sun they'll take. They grow in creek banks and anywhere where the water supply is plentiful. My father grew some for a while in a fishpond. However your plants are greenhouse grown so they won't take much sun. The older leaves won't adjust, they'll just burn and fall off.

What I'd suggest is to pot them up into larger pots than they're in, and place them in the position that you want them to go eventually, then just put your shade tent over them on the hottest days to avoid shock. On the cooler days you can keep it off. It does mean watching the weather a bit. Also put a tray under each pot and keep it full of water during the warmer months. Monitor your plant, so that you provide just enough protection to stop it burning, but don't be afraid to let it fade a little. It will adjust accordingly, and hopefully by the following season you'll have sunhardened Archo's.

Best regards

Tyrone

[DoomsDave 8,063]

Archies grow fast, even in a Mediterranean climate like yours -- and mine!

Cunninghamiana are MUCH hardier than Alex's . . . . if that's what you got, you made out for the best.

I know it can get cold in Greece.

But, do keep us apprized of your progress.

dave

[DoomsDave 8,063]

TO see what they are, look closely at the leaf reverses. Alexes are definitely silver, but those pics make it hard to tell.

Put them in a closet, and photograph the undersides of the leaves with the flash. The silver will scream.

Also, if they have these coarse little hairs on the reverses of the mature leaves, that's a cunninghamiana.

[Kostas 154]

Thank you very much all of you for your replys!

As John said,the leaves have been clipped and thats why they are Pinagna like Yeah,others would sell these for Pinagna

Its not very good to hear they are Archontophoenix cunninghamiana...I must confess it passed from my mind when i first saw them but couldnt be sure. I talked with Toby and he said he will look into it I trust him and consider him a reliable vendor so i dont think there will be any problem,whatever and if they turn out to be

Thank you very much all of you for the great info regarding A. cunninghamiana

Thanks Terry for the quick comparisson

[Kostas 154]

Also thank you very much Tyrone for the acclimation info,very helpfull

My garden in Pyrgos has very shallow water table,especially during the winter when you can dig only 60-70cm and you have plenty of water!I am gonna plant 1 Archontophoenix at a shallow water table area and the other at a relatively shady area(the sun gets it for only 2-4 hours daily and has good humidity...) where water will be plenty too so they will both have all the water they need!

Why do you suggest to keep them potted during acclimation?I was thinking of planting them in the ground where they will have plenty of water availiable(it rains heavily at Pyrgos now...and for the past 2months! ) and also be able to establish in the ground during the acclimation proccess and hopefully be able to remove the cover when 3-4 sun leaves have been formed this summer...

Thank you very much gyuseppe for sharing your experience I have also never had a problem with buys from Tobias,although mine were always seeds

Thank you very much Dave for the tips!

It does can get cold in Greece but i think Archontophoenix alexandrae should be ok in Pyrgos as tempratures fall to -3C only every 20years or so and even at -3C,a mature A. alexandrae should not die...Or should it?

[Kostas 154]

Something i noticed checking my plants for what Dave suggested is that the right palm is lighter green than the left one and its hair are somewhat reddish opposed to the gray of the left palm.Also,i was able to find some very faint glaucousness at the leaf undersides of both palms's newest leaves.The leaf undersides of old leaves appeared hairy on the left palm but not sure about the right palm....I couldnt take flash photos unfortunately as i am out of batteries

P.s.:Len,maybe you are right... Maybe i should stick to seeds... But i got pure Loxococcus rupicola,didnt i?So i won once and a half(the half is the B. koghiensis )

I know this will be a win situation too at the end though,Toby is a good man

[Tyrone 1,847]

Kostas, I thought that if you kept it potted and it didn't like the spot for some reason you could move him, but if it's definitely going there, then plant it, and protect it accordingly. they should like your high water table. A alexandrae will not like -3C by the way.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Kostas 154]

Thank you very much for your reply Tyrone!

One has a definite position to go but for the other i havent decided for sure...So i may plant the one and repot the other one...I will see

I know an A. alexandrae wont like -3C but he should experience it very very sparingly so if it survives without a complete defoliation,i would be very happy for it! Lemon trees get defoliated in Pyrgos once in 20years and a few snowflakes fall along...

I just checked the Archontophoenix key at the PACSOA website and i saw A. cunnighamiana have ramenta on the abaxial midribs of the pinnae...Mine dont ramenta so they cant be A. cunnighamiana except if ramenta shows only on mature palm leaves...Any of you with real A. cunninghamiana seedlings can post photos of the undersides?

So,if we go with the key for a species that lacks ramenta and whitish/grey scales,we end up with A. myolensis....But,i saw that the scales are discribed as whitish/grey and mine do have grey scales on the older leaves...What would make things worse in iding is the possibility of hybrid....

Any thoughts and leaf underside photos would be very much welcomed!

[MattyB 2,007]

A. cunninghamiana definitely have pronounced ramenta, even at a young age. If you see no white/silver undersides to the leaves and no ramenta that sounds like A. maxima. Just a possibility. Archontophoenix are hard to figure sometimes.

[Guest LeftCoastAngler]

Here's my wittle A. cunninghamianas:

[Kostas 154]

Thank you very much for your replys Matty and LeftCoastAngler

I checked my palms again in the darkness of the night,with a flashlight and,comparing the color of leaf undersides to uppersides,the undersides are definately silvery! I am very happy for that! But,there are two more problems now:searching really really good all the leaves for ramenta,i found tine,1mm,light brown ramenta at the midribs of pinnae of the newest unfolding leaf...I dont know if such tiny ones count as rament but they do are there definately Also,the newest unfolding leaf has reddish/brown hues at the upperside of the midrib area of the pinnae of the newest unfolding leaf...Has any of you with a 100% sure(i.e. definately not hybrid) A. alexandrae seen that on his?Reddish hues on A. alexandrae? Also,if you have an 100% sure A. alexandrae,could you check with a magnifying lens the newest leaf of your palm for tiny,1mm long ramenta to see if maybe these do are present but just not taken into consideration by the key due to their very small size that goes unnoticed?

LeftCoastAngler,could you take a picture of the underside of a leaf of your A. cunninghamiana that just goes pinnate now so as to see the size of the ramenta?

P.s.:A. maxima has silvery undersides too and no ramenta according to PACSOA key to Archontophoenix species

Thank you very much in advance!

[Tyrone 1,847]

A cunninghamiana is definitely the only one without silver under the leaves. A maxima is extremely white underneath, even at the first leaf stage. Kostas the furry petioles and the lack of silver underneath the leaflet ID's it out as A cunninghamiana. The moment I opened your pic I said Bangalow. I've worked with thousands of them, in fact I've got to pot a heap up today.

If you get down to -3 every now and again A maxima would do very well for you, and it's fast.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Kostas 154]

Thank you very much for your reply Tyrone

Please check my latest reply too as i must have posted it after you started typing

[Pivi 7]

Kostas, show us pictures of undersides you've taken with flash

[Kostas 154]

Hi Pivi

I didnt took any pictures(as i am out of batteries unfortunately...),i just checked the leaves with a hand held flashlight I do am sure though about what i described you above

[Pivi 7]

Please when you get the batteries post the pic anyway

[Kostas 154]

Ok,no problem!

[Guest LeftCoastAngler]

I'll have to snap some better ones during daylight. I took a few, but their not really clear...

~LCA.

[Kostas 154]

Thank you very much for the photo LCA

Does this palm have ramenta or not yet?Could you post a photo showing it at the smallest A. cunninghamiana you have that exhibits it?

Thank you very much in advance!

[DoomsDave 8,063]

Here's a picture of what I think is a hybrid between A. alex and A. cunninghamiana. This was taken with a flash, and you can see the silver.

However, like a cunninghamniana, it also has purple flowers.

[DoomsDave 8,063]

Same palm, more or less same angle without flash in the daytime.

This is everyone's favorite in my garden. Men, women, children all scream when they see it for the first time, even people from Pango Pango, Fiji, Bermuda and the Bahamas . . . . .

(The neighbors are used to the screaming! )

[Kostas 154]

Thank you very much for the photos Dave!

You do have a very beautyfull palm there! However i would like to not have a hybrid in my garden,pure personal puristic reasons

I am checking out just this now,the possibility of a hybrid... Does your above palm have ramenta?If yes,how big is t(the ramenta...)?

I will post some flashlight pictures for you vry soon to see what i am seeing...

Thank you very much in advance!

[Kostas 154]

Here are some flash photos taken in darkness! Most were taken with a hand held LED flashlight as my camera was unable to focus in totatl darkness but i latter tried with both some light from the flashlight and camera flash and it worked wonders so the last ones were taken in that manner

Right palm...

Underside of the opening spear...

Here a ramenta is visible if you look closely...Its really tiny and i struggled to photograph due to the position...

[Kostas 154]

Underside of leaflets of the last fully opened leaf

Upperside of the opening spear,showing the yellow and reddish hues present...They are somewhat more pronounced than seen in the photos...

[Kostas 154]

Full shot with camera flash

[Kostas 154]

Left palm...

Undersides of the last leaf's leaflets...

Full leaf shot with camera flash

This palm needs a couple of weeks to open its spear i would guess and then we can know if it shows reddish hues too...But i would guess it will too...

Please let me know what you think...The silver undersides are ok but the reddish color on the opening leaf and the tiny but present ramenta trouble me...

Thank you very much in advance!

[Guest LeftCoastAngler]

If you've got ramenta, it's a cunninghamiana or purpurea.

~LCA.

[Guest LeftCoastAngler]

http://www.palmsinkona.com/Catalog/archontophoenix.asp

[Kostas 154]

Thank you very much for your reply LCA!

Although my palm has ramenta,its really really tiny,only visible on the opening,completely clean leaf and even then if you painfully search for it,in other words,it can be very easily overlooked and for the average people,it would only be visible with a magnifying lens(i see much clearer from close than most people ) so,as ramenta is meant to be big,this tiny thing may have not be taken into consideration during the making of the key A photo of teh underside of a young,just going pinnate A. cunninghamiana leaf,showing the ramenta and another of a sure A. alexandrae checked thoroughly for tiny ramenta,would solve that mystery for good

Thank you very much for the link!I saw A. tuckerii can have a bronze colored new leaf too...Can a pure A. alexandrae have a colored new leaf?

Thank you very much in advance!

[Guest LeftCoastAngler]

I'll post my undersides once day breaks.

~LCA.

[Kostas 154]

Thanks!

[Tyrone 1,847]

Kostas, I think all Archontophoenix can have reddish new leaves at times. It generally happens in winter for some reason. Some plants are very pink/reddish but it doesn't last long at all.

Best regards

Tyrone